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Is his firstname Arthur or Joseph or Joseph-Arthur?
From the article:
I've removed the bold partion above, as it makes absolutely no sense to me. Does it mean that the popular opinion at the time was that the culture of a specific country basically determined the skin color of its inhabitants, or what? — Gabbe 23:11, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)
However, it is interesting to notice that the Nazis used his book but edited the part about the Jewish people.The Nazis of course, were not to happy to realize Gobineau did not agree with their Jewish race theory.The Jews are not and will never be a race of thei own.Jews are caucasian in the broad sense of the term.But biologically speaking, there are no races.In fact a norwegian girl could be genetically closer to an Nigerian woman, than to a Swedish teenager.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.224.158 ( talk) 03:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
"The culture of a specific country basically determined the skin color of its inhabitants, or what?"
I agree it's not coherent, but race is not skin color. Nobody believes that albinism transmutes the race of person from a dark-skinned population.
"In fact a norwegian girl could be genetically closer to an Nigerian woman, than to a Swedish teenager."
This is an example of 'Lewontin's Fallacy', and in any case race is better defined phenotypically than genetically.
i can't help but wonder: what proportion of the french have predominantly nordic blood? i've always been under the impression that a huge proportion of them DON'T. Gringo300 10:10, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
In his most well known book, The Inequality of the Human Races, he speaks of the Jewish people as "succeeding in all it undertook...who gave the world as many learned men as merchants." And there's more along those lines. I haven't come across disparaging comments about either Jews or Arabs in Gobineau. Can somone tell me where his reputation as an anti-semite comes from? Or is it conflated with his racism, generally? Madmax5 16:34, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to report that he wasn't so enlightened about Jews and Arabs. He did not dislike them much MORE than other "non-Aryan" races, and certainly never talked about a Jewish problem or advocated genocide. He did, however, portray them as greedy, miserly, and untrustworthy, and did speak of them as a race in a derogatory fashion. We read Gobineau's correspondence from Aden in my French Orientalism class... I'll try to find the quotes for this page. Mkmo ( talk) 15:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Guinness4life ( talk) 02:12, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
Interesting passage:
Arthur de Gobineau - the French writer and diplomat is the one who convinced Wagner of the importance of racial purity, the central concept of his famous and infamous ESSAY ON THE INEQUALITY OF HUMAN RACES. Note however that Gobineau wasn't a racist in the usual sense (he regarded the process of universal miscegenation as irreversible) and even less of an antisemite. (He actually regarded the Jewish people as aristocrats, an ethnic group that had succeeded more than most in preserving its original character through endogamy.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.139.103.158 ( talk • contribs).
Gobineu actually thought that the Finns in Finland were mongoloids having compared a skull of a Finn, a Lapp and a Mongol. He never visited the country, but was able to describe Finns as "yellow", short, dark-haired, squinty eyed.
Why I brought this up was, that the illustrative map does not show this and the quotes I've read clearly show that he believed that short, dark, Asians populated Finland.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.245.137.28 ( talk) 21:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
In the "Miscellaneous" section of the article: "Gobinwau was also a great philhellene. He wrote an excellent work about the original Greek State, the To the Kingdom of the Greeks in the end of the 19th century". It clearly says that he wrote an excellent work, and that is the authors personal view of the text that De Gobineau wrote.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Thymo ( talk • contribs) 18:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Was Hitler a Darwinian? This book has an extensive essay on influences on Hitler's thought, including much biographical detail on Gobineau, the topic of this article. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 03:40, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
I just went through huge hunks of run-on text, trying to roughly impart some order to this overlong, unorganized article. I created subsections within "Early Life: The embittered royalist," and tried to create paragraphs within the other sections and my subsections.
However, due to the large number of disparate editors and a seeming heavy reliance on sources, problems remain. The level of detail is extreme for an encyclopedia article about a person of this notability, and seems to stem from editorial close adherence to sources, without omitting what only belongs in a book dedicated to Gobineau. Also, the organization of the article is weak, with themes not solidified, giving a hodge-podge impression to the narrative.
One person who understands this subject needs to edit the article for concision, reducing the bulk down to something a bit more solid. I know I am not that person.-- Quisqualis ( talk) 17:30, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Yes, a thorough copy edit is desperately needed. The writing is sloppy, confused and has a shrill, prejudiced, non-academic tone throughout. If there is anyone who does not consider my edits an improvement, state your reasons here. SamJohn2013 ( talk) 00:37, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
I wonder how the page on this racist is so detailed but doesn't have any section on how his ideas are criticized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.38.122.80 ( talk) 20:13, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
This is an extremely long article. In some ways, it is very high quality - well-written, comprehensive, and interesting. But it needs editing. The page is 163,373 bytes! As an encyclopedic project, we need to present information in a way that is readable and practical. Wading into the morass of Gobineau's opinion on every single subject he encountered in minute detail does not serve the reader well.
Additionally, as pointed out by the comment above, the article could use some more attention paid to the legacy section, with any criticism of Gobineau that is deserving of inclusion included. The article is not well-organized and sort of trails off with the section on the "Yellow peril", hardly mentioning the circumstances of his death! The four final sections, on Romania, the Ottoman Empire, Germany, and Brazil, do not make clear to the reader immediately that they deal with his legacy and the subsequent impact of his ideas.
I think that this article should undergo a thorough trim, at the very least. The whole legacy section should be revamped and material added. A larger and more worthwhile change might be to separate the preceding, exceedingly long "Life and Theories" section into two - "Personal life" and "Theories and ideas." Obviously the two are related, but this is true of every thinker. Separating the two will be a little more clear for the reader.
I think this article has a ton of potential. It just is too detailed and poorly organized for it to be truly helpful to a reader with no prior knowledge of Gobineau or his ideas. I'm happy to undertake some of this work myself, or it could be recommended to the Guild of Copyeditors. Ganesha811 ( talk) 13:41, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
Whoever the father of his wife's baby was, it was not Hercule Puerre de Serre who died in 1824. Perhaps it was a son of his? Anthony Staines, Professor of Health Systems, DCU, Dublin, Ireland. ( talk) 09:04, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 14, 2020. |
Is his firstname Arthur or Joseph or Joseph-Arthur?
From the article:
I've removed the bold partion above, as it makes absolutely no sense to me. Does it mean that the popular opinion at the time was that the culture of a specific country basically determined the skin color of its inhabitants, or what? — Gabbe 23:11, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)
However, it is interesting to notice that the Nazis used his book but edited the part about the Jewish people.The Nazis of course, were not to happy to realize Gobineau did not agree with their Jewish race theory.The Jews are not and will never be a race of thei own.Jews are caucasian in the broad sense of the term.But biologically speaking, there are no races.In fact a norwegian girl could be genetically closer to an Nigerian woman, than to a Swedish teenager.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.224.158 ( talk) 03:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
"The culture of a specific country basically determined the skin color of its inhabitants, or what?"
I agree it's not coherent, but race is not skin color. Nobody believes that albinism transmutes the race of person from a dark-skinned population.
"In fact a norwegian girl could be genetically closer to an Nigerian woman, than to a Swedish teenager."
This is an example of 'Lewontin's Fallacy', and in any case race is better defined phenotypically than genetically.
i can't help but wonder: what proportion of the french have predominantly nordic blood? i've always been under the impression that a huge proportion of them DON'T. Gringo300 10:10, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
In his most well known book, The Inequality of the Human Races, he speaks of the Jewish people as "succeeding in all it undertook...who gave the world as many learned men as merchants." And there's more along those lines. I haven't come across disparaging comments about either Jews or Arabs in Gobineau. Can somone tell me where his reputation as an anti-semite comes from? Or is it conflated with his racism, generally? Madmax5 16:34, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to report that he wasn't so enlightened about Jews and Arabs. He did not dislike them much MORE than other "non-Aryan" races, and certainly never talked about a Jewish problem or advocated genocide. He did, however, portray them as greedy, miserly, and untrustworthy, and did speak of them as a race in a derogatory fashion. We read Gobineau's correspondence from Aden in my French Orientalism class... I'll try to find the quotes for this page. Mkmo ( talk) 15:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Guinness4life ( talk) 02:12, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
Interesting passage:
Arthur de Gobineau - the French writer and diplomat is the one who convinced Wagner of the importance of racial purity, the central concept of his famous and infamous ESSAY ON THE INEQUALITY OF HUMAN RACES. Note however that Gobineau wasn't a racist in the usual sense (he regarded the process of universal miscegenation as irreversible) and even less of an antisemite. (He actually regarded the Jewish people as aristocrats, an ethnic group that had succeeded more than most in preserving its original character through endogamy.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.139.103.158 ( talk • contribs).
Gobineu actually thought that the Finns in Finland were mongoloids having compared a skull of a Finn, a Lapp and a Mongol. He never visited the country, but was able to describe Finns as "yellow", short, dark-haired, squinty eyed.
Why I brought this up was, that the illustrative map does not show this and the quotes I've read clearly show that he believed that short, dark, Asians populated Finland.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.245.137.28 ( talk) 21:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
In the "Miscellaneous" section of the article: "Gobinwau was also a great philhellene. He wrote an excellent work about the original Greek State, the To the Kingdom of the Greeks in the end of the 19th century". It clearly says that he wrote an excellent work, and that is the authors personal view of the text that De Gobineau wrote.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Thymo ( talk • contribs) 18:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Was Hitler a Darwinian? This book has an extensive essay on influences on Hitler's thought, including much biographical detail on Gobineau, the topic of this article. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 03:40, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
I just went through huge hunks of run-on text, trying to roughly impart some order to this overlong, unorganized article. I created subsections within "Early Life: The embittered royalist," and tried to create paragraphs within the other sections and my subsections.
However, due to the large number of disparate editors and a seeming heavy reliance on sources, problems remain. The level of detail is extreme for an encyclopedia article about a person of this notability, and seems to stem from editorial close adherence to sources, without omitting what only belongs in a book dedicated to Gobineau. Also, the organization of the article is weak, with themes not solidified, giving a hodge-podge impression to the narrative.
One person who understands this subject needs to edit the article for concision, reducing the bulk down to something a bit more solid. I know I am not that person.-- Quisqualis ( talk) 17:30, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Yes, a thorough copy edit is desperately needed. The writing is sloppy, confused and has a shrill, prejudiced, non-academic tone throughout. If there is anyone who does not consider my edits an improvement, state your reasons here. SamJohn2013 ( talk) 00:37, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
I wonder how the page on this racist is so detailed but doesn't have any section on how his ideas are criticized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.38.122.80 ( talk) 20:13, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
This is an extremely long article. In some ways, it is very high quality - well-written, comprehensive, and interesting. But it needs editing. The page is 163,373 bytes! As an encyclopedic project, we need to present information in a way that is readable and practical. Wading into the morass of Gobineau's opinion on every single subject he encountered in minute detail does not serve the reader well.
Additionally, as pointed out by the comment above, the article could use some more attention paid to the legacy section, with any criticism of Gobineau that is deserving of inclusion included. The article is not well-organized and sort of trails off with the section on the "Yellow peril", hardly mentioning the circumstances of his death! The four final sections, on Romania, the Ottoman Empire, Germany, and Brazil, do not make clear to the reader immediately that they deal with his legacy and the subsequent impact of his ideas.
I think that this article should undergo a thorough trim, at the very least. The whole legacy section should be revamped and material added. A larger and more worthwhile change might be to separate the preceding, exceedingly long "Life and Theories" section into two - "Personal life" and "Theories and ideas." Obviously the two are related, but this is true of every thinker. Separating the two will be a little more clear for the reader.
I think this article has a ton of potential. It just is too detailed and poorly organized for it to be truly helpful to a reader with no prior knowledge of Gobineau or his ideas. I'm happy to undertake some of this work myself, or it could be recommended to the Guild of Copyeditors. Ganesha811 ( talk) 13:41, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
Whoever the father of his wife's baby was, it was not Hercule Puerre de Serre who died in 1824. Perhaps it was a son of his? Anthony Staines, Professor of Health Systems, DCU, Dublin, Ireland. ( talk) 09:04, 22 March 2020 (UTC)