Arson in royal dockyards was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the
good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
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The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that arson in royal dockyards was one of the last four crimes in the United Kingdom to carry the death penalty?
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The C of E: re
this edit, when I click on the link in the citation, it says that the Queen assented to the Ulster Defense Regiment Act. Either the link is wrong, or the Ulster Defense Regiment Act covers more than the name implies; either way, a better link/cite is necessary, no? —
Luis (
talk) 00:09, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
(And of course the assent, which appears to actually be
here, says nothing about what the bill did, so even if it were the "correct" hansard link, I think my original point - that the citation does not support the claim - still stands. A secondary source instead of a primary hansard link would be much stronger.—
Luis (
talk) 00:22, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Rationale for repeal
Not a huge deal, but the Law Commission's report does not mention the flammability of battleships (or anything of the sort, really) as a reason to repeal the Act. I realize the other citation says this, though, so not immediately obvious how best to deal with it. Leaving here for now. —
Luis (
talk) 04:06, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
I have removed the assertion, given that the act also applied to armories, and explosives remain flammable to this day. The cited source says "...committing arson in one of His Majesty’s shipyards. This capital offence was not repealed until 1971 – long after naval ships had ceased to be made from highly flammable materials". It does not state that it was repealed because naval ships had ceased to be made from highly flammable materials. I would say (though it needs citing) that the act was repealed because it was no longer likely to be enforced and the offences could be punished under other statutes.
jnestorius(
talk) 18:53, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Only one prosecution, but...
The Law Commission's report cites to
Archbold to say that there was only one prosecution under the Act, and that prosecution was in 1777, but the case name was R. v. Hill, not Aitken...? I've been trying to find access to a copy of Archbold that actually discusses this, but no luck so far...—
Luis (
talk) 04:17, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
The much-improved-since-2007
Portsmouth Dockyard page on the topic resolves this - it says his name was Hill, with Aitken an alias. I'll figure out how to fix the citations. —
Luis (
talk) 04:27, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
More recent information about Australia, particularly NSW
I wish we had a more recent source for the discussion of NSW. In an attempt to find one, I came across
this 1994 report, which seems to take for granted that the Dockyard Act was not in force as of 1994. I can't find any evidence about when it might have been explicitly repealed, though, nor can I (yet) find the 1967 NSW report that the Victoria report refers to. —
Luis (
talk) 05:08, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Applicable to Army as well as Navy?
Parsing the text of section 1, emphasis added:
WHEREAS the safety and preservation of his Majesty's ships of war, arsenals, magazines, dock yards, rope yards, victualling offices, military, naval, and victualling stores, and the places where such stores are kept or deposited, either within this realm or in any of the islands, countries, forts, or places thereunto belonging, is of great importance to the welfare and security of the kingdom:
May it please your most excellent Majesty that it may be enacted, and be it enacted by the King's most excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the lords spiritual and temporal, and commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, that
if any person or persons shall,
either within this realm, or in any of the islands, countries, forts, or places thereunto belonging,
wilfully and maliciously
set on fire, or burn, or otherwise destroy,
or cause to be set on fire, or burnt, or otherwise destroyed,
or aid, procure, abet, or assist in the setting on fire, or burning, or otherwise destroying of
any of his Majesty's ships or vessels of war,
whether he said ships or vessels of war be
on float or building, or begun to be built, in any of his Majesty dock yards,
or building or repairing by contract in any private yards, for the use of his Majesty,
or any of his Majesty's arsenals, magazines, dock yards, rope yards, victualling offices,
or any of the buildings erected therein or belonging thereto;
or any timber or materials there placed, for building, repairing, or fitting out of ships or vessels;
or any of his Majesty's military, naval, or victualling stores, or other ammunition of war,
or any place or places where any such military, naval, or victualling stores or other ammunition of war is, are, or shall be kept, placed, or deposited;
that then the person or persons guilty of any such offence,
being thereof convicted in due form of law,
shall be adjudged guilty of felony,
and shall suffer death,
as in cases of felony,
without benefit of clergy.
A naive reading of the above suggests the terms in red are not specific to the navy and might equally apply to the army. However, sources seem to discuss the act only in terms of the navy. "His Majesty's" suggests the distinction between the
Royal Navy and the non-Royal
British Army; is this a relevant distinction? As against that there are
Royal Arsenal and
Royal Gunpowder Mills; would arson there have come under the 1772 act?
jnestorius(
talk) 01:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The word military is an explicit reference to the army. I don't know why sources focus on the navy, but the text is clear. I wouldn't read anything into the "His Majesty's" bit; army officers are commissioned in the name of the king.
Richard75 (
talk) 00:12, 3 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Arson in royal dockyards was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the
good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that arson in royal dockyards was one of the last four crimes in the United Kingdom to carry the death penalty?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the
legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
This article is within the scope of
WikiProject British crime, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.British crimeWikipedia:WikiProject British crimeTemplate:WikiProject British crimeBritish crime articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject British Empire, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
British Empire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.British EmpireWikipedia:WikiProject British EmpireTemplate:WikiProject British EmpireBritish Empire articles
Arson in royal dockyards is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
Australia and
Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
@
The C of E: re
this edit, when I click on the link in the citation, it says that the Queen assented to the Ulster Defense Regiment Act. Either the link is wrong, or the Ulster Defense Regiment Act covers more than the name implies; either way, a better link/cite is necessary, no? —
Luis (
talk) 00:09, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
(And of course the assent, which appears to actually be
here, says nothing about what the bill did, so even if it were the "correct" hansard link, I think my original point - that the citation does not support the claim - still stands. A secondary source instead of a primary hansard link would be much stronger.—
Luis (
talk) 00:22, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Rationale for repeal
Not a huge deal, but the Law Commission's report does not mention the flammability of battleships (or anything of the sort, really) as a reason to repeal the Act. I realize the other citation says this, though, so not immediately obvious how best to deal with it. Leaving here for now. —
Luis (
talk) 04:06, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
I have removed the assertion, given that the act also applied to armories, and explosives remain flammable to this day. The cited source says "...committing arson in one of His Majesty’s shipyards. This capital offence was not repealed until 1971 – long after naval ships had ceased to be made from highly flammable materials". It does not state that it was repealed because naval ships had ceased to be made from highly flammable materials. I would say (though it needs citing) that the act was repealed because it was no longer likely to be enforced and the offences could be punished under other statutes.
jnestorius(
talk) 18:53, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Only one prosecution, but...
The Law Commission's report cites to
Archbold to say that there was only one prosecution under the Act, and that prosecution was in 1777, but the case name was R. v. Hill, not Aitken...? I've been trying to find access to a copy of Archbold that actually discusses this, but no luck so far...—
Luis (
talk) 04:17, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
The much-improved-since-2007
Portsmouth Dockyard page on the topic resolves this - it says his name was Hill, with Aitken an alias. I'll figure out how to fix the citations. —
Luis (
talk) 04:27, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
More recent information about Australia, particularly NSW
I wish we had a more recent source for the discussion of NSW. In an attempt to find one, I came across
this 1994 report, which seems to take for granted that the Dockyard Act was not in force as of 1994. I can't find any evidence about when it might have been explicitly repealed, though, nor can I (yet) find the 1967 NSW report that the Victoria report refers to. —
Luis (
talk) 05:08, 25 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Applicable to Army as well as Navy?
Parsing the text of section 1, emphasis added:
WHEREAS the safety and preservation of his Majesty's ships of war, arsenals, magazines, dock yards, rope yards, victualling offices, military, naval, and victualling stores, and the places where such stores are kept or deposited, either within this realm or in any of the islands, countries, forts, or places thereunto belonging, is of great importance to the welfare and security of the kingdom:
May it please your most excellent Majesty that it may be enacted, and be it enacted by the King's most excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the lords spiritual and temporal, and commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, that
if any person or persons shall,
either within this realm, or in any of the islands, countries, forts, or places thereunto belonging,
wilfully and maliciously
set on fire, or burn, or otherwise destroy,
or cause to be set on fire, or burnt, or otherwise destroyed,
or aid, procure, abet, or assist in the setting on fire, or burning, or otherwise destroying of
any of his Majesty's ships or vessels of war,
whether he said ships or vessels of war be
on float or building, or begun to be built, in any of his Majesty dock yards,
or building or repairing by contract in any private yards, for the use of his Majesty,
or any of his Majesty's arsenals, magazines, dock yards, rope yards, victualling offices,
or any of the buildings erected therein or belonging thereto;
or any timber or materials there placed, for building, repairing, or fitting out of ships or vessels;
or any of his Majesty's military, naval, or victualling stores, or other ammunition of war,
or any place or places where any such military, naval, or victualling stores or other ammunition of war is, are, or shall be kept, placed, or deposited;
that then the person or persons guilty of any such offence,
being thereof convicted in due form of law,
shall be adjudged guilty of felony,
and shall suffer death,
as in cases of felony,
without benefit of clergy.
A naive reading of the above suggests the terms in red are not specific to the navy and might equally apply to the army. However, sources seem to discuss the act only in terms of the navy. "His Majesty's" suggests the distinction between the
Royal Navy and the non-Royal
British Army; is this a relevant distinction? As against that there are
Royal Arsenal and
Royal Gunpowder Mills; would arson there have come under the 1772 act?
jnestorius(
talk) 01:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The word military is an explicit reference to the army. I don't know why sources focus on the navy, but the text is clear. I wouldn't read anything into the "His Majesty's" bit; army officers are commissioned in the name of the king.
Richard75 (
talk) 00:12, 3 April 2023 (UTC)reply