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I will have to find a way to link this, but I have photographs of these cars being repaired, and later being rebuilt by Morrison & Knudsen during 1983, still in its PC/NJ DOT paint. I also have an Amtrak Dispatcher sheet from June 3, 1979 that lists 590 as being in the lead of Harrisburg train.
Most sources report this pair as being destroyed in the Seabrook, MD collision on June 9, 1978, but this is clearly not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CAB IV ( talk • contribs) 05:37, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
What is a Budd "Pin and Cup" style Railway coupling? Peter Horn User talk 00:18, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be confusion about the Arrows. These later Arrow bodel shells were produced by Avco, not budd. Budd may have done some small work on them, but multiple sources from the time period name Avco as the producer of the Arrow body shells. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.138.61 ( talk) 02:58, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
An employee confirmed that there were not GE shells other than the Metropolitans at the Red Lion plant during the mid 70s. Apparently, Amfleet Is were filling the production line. Other evidence discussed above can be found at this railroad.net forum thread- http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=109239&p=1102396#p1102396 .
Since there are many references to Avco producing the bodies for GE, I think we can safely stick to Avco as the body builder. At the very least, we know its not Budd now. CAB IV ( talk) 21:11, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Whoa, I don’t think we’re there yet. A Railway Age Oct’84 pg56-61 article titled “M&E: Re-electrification and rebirth” includes the phrase “Budd-bodied Arrow III” followed by “most successful car to come off General Electric’s assembly line”. Now I concede that it could be a reporter’s typo but I’ve only found 2 other print quotes, Carleton who names Avco and Cudahy who does the same in “A Century of Subways”. But Cudahy is writing so much later that I have to wonder if he might just be following the same leads we’ve already found and that likely go back to Carleton & Pennypacker.
I Googled Silverliner+Avco, Silverliner+Budd, Arrow III+Avco and Arrow III+Budd. Discarding the photo captions I still found there is much conflicting opinion out there. http://ihphobby.tripod.com/hopages/expresssil4.html even said “NJ commuter operations turned to General Electric, which designed a car based on the Arrow I design for both systems. Utilizing body shells designed by aerospace firm AVCO and assembled at Budd's Red Lion plant”.
I also noticed someone mistakenly crossing AVCO (originally Aviation Co.) with American Vickers (never a car builder) and then leaping to long unrelated Canadian Vickers (who did make SS bodies). By the way Hawker-Siddley's rail connection is via the Canadian Car & Foundry factory at Fort William, a long time Canadian railcar facility now run by Bombardier.
For me there is still too much fuzziness out there.
PS: if Avco’s name is going to be mentioned it should be placed after GE
PhaseBreak ( talk) 08:43, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Saw the post of “Headlights” on Railroad.net. I’m sufficiently convinced about AVCO having built the shells. Thanks green_elite_cab. PhaseBreak ( talk) 09:49, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Whats all of this about Canadian Vickers? I changed it back, but there isn't any evidence out there for their involvement. Canadian vickers isn't ever brought up in any of my Silverliner IV or Arrow II Material (or Arrow IIIs for that matter), but AVCO pops up a couple times.
It sounds like someone extrapolated a partnership on the M2s to all GE involved MU cars. CAB IV ( talk) 17:21, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
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I will have to find a way to link this, but I have photographs of these cars being repaired, and later being rebuilt by Morrison & Knudsen during 1983, still in its PC/NJ DOT paint. I also have an Amtrak Dispatcher sheet from June 3, 1979 that lists 590 as being in the lead of Harrisburg train.
Most sources report this pair as being destroyed in the Seabrook, MD collision on June 9, 1978, but this is clearly not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CAB IV ( talk • contribs) 05:37, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
What is a Budd "Pin and Cup" style Railway coupling? Peter Horn User talk 00:18, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be confusion about the Arrows. These later Arrow bodel shells were produced by Avco, not budd. Budd may have done some small work on them, but multiple sources from the time period name Avco as the producer of the Arrow body shells. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.138.61 ( talk) 02:58, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
An employee confirmed that there were not GE shells other than the Metropolitans at the Red Lion plant during the mid 70s. Apparently, Amfleet Is were filling the production line. Other evidence discussed above can be found at this railroad.net forum thread- http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=109239&p=1102396#p1102396 .
Since there are many references to Avco producing the bodies for GE, I think we can safely stick to Avco as the body builder. At the very least, we know its not Budd now. CAB IV ( talk) 21:11, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Whoa, I don’t think we’re there yet. A Railway Age Oct’84 pg56-61 article titled “M&E: Re-electrification and rebirth” includes the phrase “Budd-bodied Arrow III” followed by “most successful car to come off General Electric’s assembly line”. Now I concede that it could be a reporter’s typo but I’ve only found 2 other print quotes, Carleton who names Avco and Cudahy who does the same in “A Century of Subways”. But Cudahy is writing so much later that I have to wonder if he might just be following the same leads we’ve already found and that likely go back to Carleton & Pennypacker.
I Googled Silverliner+Avco, Silverliner+Budd, Arrow III+Avco and Arrow III+Budd. Discarding the photo captions I still found there is much conflicting opinion out there. http://ihphobby.tripod.com/hopages/expresssil4.html even said “NJ commuter operations turned to General Electric, which designed a car based on the Arrow I design for both systems. Utilizing body shells designed by aerospace firm AVCO and assembled at Budd's Red Lion plant”.
I also noticed someone mistakenly crossing AVCO (originally Aviation Co.) with American Vickers (never a car builder) and then leaping to long unrelated Canadian Vickers (who did make SS bodies). By the way Hawker-Siddley's rail connection is via the Canadian Car & Foundry factory at Fort William, a long time Canadian railcar facility now run by Bombardier.
For me there is still too much fuzziness out there.
PS: if Avco’s name is going to be mentioned it should be placed after GE
PhaseBreak ( talk) 08:43, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Saw the post of “Headlights” on Railroad.net. I’m sufficiently convinced about AVCO having built the shells. Thanks green_elite_cab. PhaseBreak ( talk) 09:49, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Whats all of this about Canadian Vickers? I changed it back, but there isn't any evidence out there for their involvement. Canadian vickers isn't ever brought up in any of my Silverliner IV or Arrow II Material (or Arrow IIIs for that matter), but AVCO pops up a couple times.
It sounds like someone extrapolated a partnership on the M2s to all GE involved MU cars. CAB IV ( talk) 17:21, 12 June 2014 (UTC)