GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
history) ·
Article talk (
|
history) ·
Watch
Nominator: Kusma ( talk · contribs) 16:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Yakikaki ( talk · contribs) 21:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
I'll take on this review. I will get back in the coming days with comments. Yakikaki ( talk) 21:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Overall, the article is in a good shape without any glaring problems. For someone who is interested in medieval history and German culture, I enjoyed reading it a lot!
I have two main concerns which I would like to see addressed.
Firstly, the article lacks somewhat of context. The facts of the biography of Arnold are very well presented, but should be put into somewhat more perspective. For example, he came from an important family, part of the local aristocracy ("Als Sohn von Graf Bruno von Isenburg-Braunsberg (gestorben vor 1210) und der Theodora Gräfin von Wied (gestorben wohl um 1218) stammte Arnold von bedeutenden rechtsrheinischen Adelsgeschlechtern ab., as we learn here). This helps put his life in context, and should be noted. Similarly, a few words on the importance of the different religious institutions he came to be associated with. St Lubentius for example seems to have been a very prestigious church, not to mention of course Trier Cathedral itself. That he being Archbishop was also an Elector, one of the most high-ranking officials in the HRE, is as far as I can see not even mentioned. His embroilment in the politics of the times also needs more context. You don't need to add much, just a few words here and there, a sentence occasionally perhaps, both in the lead section and (mainly) in the article body. Let me know if you want detailed suggestions on this, or if you prefer to do it yourself.
Secondly, some of the sources are rather old. Two of them are almost 150 years old! Only two are from the 21st century. Is it at possible to strengthen the article with some further, more recent sources? This (which is also not super-new) supposedly (according to this) contains a short biography of Arnold. A few crumbs seem available here, here and here. Admittedly not much, but it is what I could find myself using a cursory search. Perhaps you could have access to more sources? Age matters, and I think the sources you have used from before 1900 should to as far extent as possible be concurred by more recent research.
Apart from that, I have listed below some minor changes to the prose which I would suggest.
The provostship at the cathedral, the second highest position in the diocese after the episcopal seat, had become vacant upon the death of Rudolf de Ponte (senior); Arnold's main competitor for this position was another member of the de Ponte family, also called Rudolf, who was given the provostship of St Paulin instead in order to ascertain Arnold's election.Long sentence, consider re-writing.
civil warsounds a bit awkward to me in English. I understand it is the correct translation of Bürgerkrieg, but perhaps "armed conflict", "hostilities", "armed conflict between the parties" or something along those lines could be used instead? "Civil war" sounds to me more modern, more pre-supposing an actual state somehow..? Consider the wording, I'm not going do be dogmatic about it.
He died soon after, which ended the conflict.Either write "He died soon after, whereby the conflict ended." or "His death soon after ended the conflict."
After a failed attempt to declare Arnold's election as uncanonical in a trial in Rome. Who tried to declare the election uncanonical? The pope? Re-phrase for clarity. I suggest: "Pope Innocent IV attempted to declare Arnold's election uncanonical in a trial in Rome, but was forced to confirm Arnold as archbishop in 1245. Arnold was consecrated[...]"
That's it from me for the moment. Kind regards, Yakikaki ( talk) 16:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
history) ·
Article talk (
|
history) ·
Watch
Nominator: Kusma ( talk · contribs) 16:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Yakikaki ( talk · contribs) 21:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
I'll take on this review. I will get back in the coming days with comments. Yakikaki ( talk) 21:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Overall, the article is in a good shape without any glaring problems. For someone who is interested in medieval history and German culture, I enjoyed reading it a lot!
I have two main concerns which I would like to see addressed.
Firstly, the article lacks somewhat of context. The facts of the biography of Arnold are very well presented, but should be put into somewhat more perspective. For example, he came from an important family, part of the local aristocracy ("Als Sohn von Graf Bruno von Isenburg-Braunsberg (gestorben vor 1210) und der Theodora Gräfin von Wied (gestorben wohl um 1218) stammte Arnold von bedeutenden rechtsrheinischen Adelsgeschlechtern ab., as we learn here). This helps put his life in context, and should be noted. Similarly, a few words on the importance of the different religious institutions he came to be associated with. St Lubentius for example seems to have been a very prestigious church, not to mention of course Trier Cathedral itself. That he being Archbishop was also an Elector, one of the most high-ranking officials in the HRE, is as far as I can see not even mentioned. His embroilment in the politics of the times also needs more context. You don't need to add much, just a few words here and there, a sentence occasionally perhaps, both in the lead section and (mainly) in the article body. Let me know if you want detailed suggestions on this, or if you prefer to do it yourself.
Secondly, some of the sources are rather old. Two of them are almost 150 years old! Only two are from the 21st century. Is it at possible to strengthen the article with some further, more recent sources? This (which is also not super-new) supposedly (according to this) contains a short biography of Arnold. A few crumbs seem available here, here and here. Admittedly not much, but it is what I could find myself using a cursory search. Perhaps you could have access to more sources? Age matters, and I think the sources you have used from before 1900 should to as far extent as possible be concurred by more recent research.
Apart from that, I have listed below some minor changes to the prose which I would suggest.
The provostship at the cathedral, the second highest position in the diocese after the episcopal seat, had become vacant upon the death of Rudolf de Ponte (senior); Arnold's main competitor for this position was another member of the de Ponte family, also called Rudolf, who was given the provostship of St Paulin instead in order to ascertain Arnold's election.Long sentence, consider re-writing.
civil warsounds a bit awkward to me in English. I understand it is the correct translation of Bürgerkrieg, but perhaps "armed conflict", "hostilities", "armed conflict between the parties" or something along those lines could be used instead? "Civil war" sounds to me more modern, more pre-supposing an actual state somehow..? Consider the wording, I'm not going do be dogmatic about it.
He died soon after, which ended the conflict.Either write "He died soon after, whereby the conflict ended." or "His death soon after ended the conflict."
After a failed attempt to declare Arnold's election as uncanonical in a trial in Rome. Who tried to declare the election uncanonical? The pope? Re-phrase for clarity. I suggest: "Pope Innocent IV attempted to declare Arnold's election uncanonical in a trial in Rome, but was forced to confirm Arnold as archbishop in 1245. Arnold was consecrated[...]"
That's it from me for the moment. Kind regards, Yakikaki ( talk) 16:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)