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neutral point of view.
Hi everyone! I just wanted to add a section here to let all concerned parties know that I removed the changes on the article that state that this person is dead - including the date amended to the summary paragraph, the article section, and any details that were added about it. The source cited doesn't appear to be independent of the subject, as the author (Tony Ortega) appears to be involved with Scientology as well and used his domain to post the news. This obviously creates concerns and compromises reliability per
WP:BLP. One other source I found points to a Twitter post by (what appears to be) Tony Ortega's account as their source, which also calls into question the
verifiability of the changes to the content. Therefore, until a
reliable source that's secondary and written by an author that's completely independent of the article subject is located - I don't feel that this content meets Wikipedia's requirements per
WP:BLP and it has been removed accordingly. Please let me know if anyone has any questions or if a reliable source surfaces that meets the BLP requirements. I'd like to take a look before changes are made.
Also, please take note that this article subject is under a topic where
discretionary sanctions are authorized by uninvolved administrators (see
ArbCom case). If the information is repeatedly added back and without a reliable source that's compliant with
Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons, I will increase the protection of the article as needed so that this policy is consistently applied and enforced. I don't want to have to do that, but I will if it means that violations of Wikipedia's BLP policy are avoided and a fair, open, and positive editing environment is maintained. Thanks :-)
~Oshwah~(talk)(contribs)07:26, 22 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Completely understand the reluctance of adding the Ortega piece to the article, I'm sure something else will be forthcoming soonish. I do want to mention that Ortega himself is notable as a investigative journalist with his own Wikipedia page, and if he is reporting this story, then it is solid. He has a reputation that he must keep pristine when it comes to reporting, and is careful to only report on stories that have checked out. I think it is fine to use Ortega's story on the Lerma page, but if others think we should wait for a second source I won't fight on that. BUT one thing we should make very clear, Oshwah you wrote "(Tony Ortega) appears to be involved with Scientology as well" and as I know what you mean, others may not. Ortega is involved with Scientology like
Brian Deer is involved with
Andrew Wakefield in other words Deer and Ortega
Tony Ortega (journalist) are both investigative journalists. Both men are often attacked by the organizations they write about, so we need to be careful how we present their work.
Sgerbic (
talk)
18:32, 22 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Hi. Sorry, I did not catch this notice and updated based on inclusion in Wikipedia necrology. Will undo or hide until death can be confirmed.
Quis separabit?01:54, 23 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Thanks
Candy. I did not use the link because it will be valid after March 29th. The the Sylvania Telephone is a weekly. The article will still be accessible at that site, but not directly from that link. I was also unable to archive the article on the Wayback Machine. It took me a lot of searching to find it. Its a shame, really.
8==8 Boneso (
talk)
19:11, 27 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Yes,
8==8 Boneso, that's what I was stymied by! It's too bad, but at the same time, we can't always link to sources on the net. We link to books, etc., all the time. At least we tried!
Candy (
talk)
13:38, 28 March 2018 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest and
neutral point of view.
Hi everyone! I just wanted to add a section here to let all concerned parties know that I removed the changes on the article that state that this person is dead - including the date amended to the summary paragraph, the article section, and any details that were added about it. The source cited doesn't appear to be independent of the subject, as the author (Tony Ortega) appears to be involved with Scientology as well and used his domain to post the news. This obviously creates concerns and compromises reliability per
WP:BLP. One other source I found points to a Twitter post by (what appears to be) Tony Ortega's account as their source, which also calls into question the
verifiability of the changes to the content. Therefore, until a
reliable source that's secondary and written by an author that's completely independent of the article subject is located - I don't feel that this content meets Wikipedia's requirements per
WP:BLP and it has been removed accordingly. Please let me know if anyone has any questions or if a reliable source surfaces that meets the BLP requirements. I'd like to take a look before changes are made.
Also, please take note that this article subject is under a topic where
discretionary sanctions are authorized by uninvolved administrators (see
ArbCom case). If the information is repeatedly added back and without a reliable source that's compliant with
Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons, I will increase the protection of the article as needed so that this policy is consistently applied and enforced. I don't want to have to do that, but I will if it means that violations of Wikipedia's BLP policy are avoided and a fair, open, and positive editing environment is maintained. Thanks :-)
~Oshwah~(talk)(contribs)07:26, 22 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Completely understand the reluctance of adding the Ortega piece to the article, I'm sure something else will be forthcoming soonish. I do want to mention that Ortega himself is notable as a investigative journalist with his own Wikipedia page, and if he is reporting this story, then it is solid. He has a reputation that he must keep pristine when it comes to reporting, and is careful to only report on stories that have checked out. I think it is fine to use Ortega's story on the Lerma page, but if others think we should wait for a second source I won't fight on that. BUT one thing we should make very clear, Oshwah you wrote "(Tony Ortega) appears to be involved with Scientology as well" and as I know what you mean, others may not. Ortega is involved with Scientology like
Brian Deer is involved with
Andrew Wakefield in other words Deer and Ortega
Tony Ortega (journalist) are both investigative journalists. Both men are often attacked by the organizations they write about, so we need to be careful how we present their work.
Sgerbic (
talk)
18:32, 22 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Hi. Sorry, I did not catch this notice and updated based on inclusion in Wikipedia necrology. Will undo or hide until death can be confirmed.
Quis separabit?01:54, 23 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Thanks
Candy. I did not use the link because it will be valid after March 29th. The the Sylvania Telephone is a weekly. The article will still be accessible at that site, but not directly from that link. I was also unable to archive the article on the Wayback Machine. It took me a lot of searching to find it. Its a shame, really.
8==8 Boneso (
talk)
19:11, 27 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Yes,
8==8 Boneso, that's what I was stymied by! It's too bad, but at the same time, we can't always link to sources on the net. We link to books, etc., all the time. At least we tried!
Candy (
talk)
13:38, 28 March 2018 (UTC)reply