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![]() | On 16 September 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Armenian–Azerbaijani war (1918–1920). The result of the discussion was Moved to Armenian–Azerbaijani war (1918–1920). |
![]() | This article contains a translation of Армяно-азербайджанская война (1918—1920) from ru.wikipedia. |
there was no Azerbaijan when hostilities ended
After having gained firm control of Azerbaijan, the Soviet forces moved on to reclaim the Armenian-occupied areas in the west for the Azerbaijan SSR. The Azeri army was reorganized along Soviet lines and reequipped with Russian weapons.-- Eupator 03:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I need advice - can the conflict be seen as part of Russian Civil War, or is it something completely separate? - Kami888
First of, the commander information seems to be accurate. Second, since the massacre of Armenians was much more reported and found in published works, I wonder why you have deleted that from the other editors edit, when the contrary, the reported massacre of Azeris is untouched. Also, you shall explain me why Nakhichevan planed to be part of the Armenian republic is according to Armenian sources, when it was on the middle, between 'Ottoman Armenia' and 'Russian Armenia', with it being considered as part of Russian Armenia. Again, I don't know what the hell you will answer, but I take once again the opportunity to say, that I do not have free times in my handes to be engaged in any disputes involving some ultranationalists. Just saying that so that you do not expect any answers from me. I just had a few minutes and saw what was missing in that article and what was reverted. Fad (ix) 16:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Wheres proof for this? some references please, not to mention it was Armenian before, [2] there was also Bolshevik before. Artaxiad 23:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
The Russian and Azeri offensive started in early June and resulted in quick defeat of Armenian forces. On June 5 the Armenian forces were expelled from Shusha. In early July Armenians withdrew from Tatev and suffered several defeats in Kazakh-Shamshadin area. On 28 July the Soviet forces and their Turkish allies staged an assault on Nakhichevan City, expelling Armenian forces and establishing a joint Russian/Azeri/Turkish occupation of the province. In early August, Armenian troops made one more attempt to take over Nakhichevan but were defeated at Shakh-Takhty by joint Soviet-Turkish corps. Thus, the Azerbaijan SSR was fully restored to the borders of Azerbaijan Democratic Republic prior to Armenian invasion.On August 10 1920, the cease-fire agreement was signed in Yerevan between Soviet and Armenian forces, ending the hostilities and forcing Armenia to recognize the Azeri control of Karabakh and temporary independence of Nakhichevan.
I don't think there is any doubt. If it please you more you can write "Azerbaijani and Russian victory" or "Armenian defeat", but the result doesn't change. ( Limonlimone 00:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC))
I think there are a lot of sources that can confirm you this version, for example the book cited at the end of the article as well as the links. In general we can divide this conflict into two parts, the first part was more favorable to Armenian side while the second and last part that was completly favorable to Azerbaijani side. In fact to be more precise I wrote "Azerbaijan SSR victory" to underline the fact that the war was won by Soviet Azerbaijan and not by ADR. In anycase it doesn't change much, during ADR the government was led by Musavatists, during SSR by the Communists, but we are still talking about Azerbaijan. If tomorrow the France government change colour that country is still named France. ( Limonlimone 00:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC))
I took out the sentence that said "Azerbaijani victory" since there is a citation tag in there for over a month, but there had been no references supporting it. ROOB323 08:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Listing British Empire on the same side as Armenia makes it sound as if the British actively supported the Armenian cause for Karabakh, which isn't true. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.225.112.144 ( talk) 22:55:35, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
The "Fight for Karabakh, early 1920" part seems to be a POV with a only one source referring one sentence. Where are the sources? We have many reliable sources asking about massacres during that fightings but article asks nothing about it just a clashes. What "clashes" without even one killed peaceful Azeri inhabitant (when a large number of Armenian inhabitants were massacred)? Andranikpasha 22:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Does GSE provide figures including losses of both sides... during March massacres in Shushi/Shusha? Can we have a quotation? Andranikpasha 11:19, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
"According to the Great Soviet Encyclopedia (Third Edition, 1970), these events ..."- what events? There isnt name of Shushi/Shusha, the name of event (massacres or even other variant) and period... this quotation is surely not reliable! "And GSE does not say that all the people who died were Armenian."- also mark- it never says- "by both sides" (of ...event). they write: "only a few Armenian families remained."(is it means that Azeri families were also killed??) there isnt a fact of killing even one peaceful Azerbaijani inhabitant during Shushi massacres! Andranikpasha 16:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Parishan, please at first read what we are discussing here to not write... about March Days. Surely March days in Baku, 1918, were different events than ...March Massacres in Shushi in 1920... I not only saw the related article but Im working on it. "The statement about Azerbaijani troops entering Shusha through breaking some agreement is based on an Armenian source." - What source you mean? I never added any Armenian sources to this article! You just deleted some sourced info... to wait for discussing. After discussing we will add more materials on Shushi Massacres, but before that we need even 2 words about it which you deleted! Parishan be more carefull while discussing "an annual report from the British parliament". I never added such a source here? really what you're discussing? Konstantin Voevodsky is co-author, he is a famous human rights defender from Soviet Union (he is an activist of International Human Rights congress of OSCE [5]) and very reliable source (by the way he cited at Memo.ru as independent observer at Karabakh referendum [6] its not a shame or base for unreliability)! De Vaal is not reliable, we discussed him as an "expert-businessman", he advertised by Azeri community in Moscow, and we had nothing from Potier about "both sides" (dont make original research): he cited a Soviet source and asking that Armenians fled the city. We cant create "killings of another side" just by a source asking "The sacking of Shusha by Azeri forces resulted in the burning of hundreds of homes. According to the Great Soviet Encyclopedia (Third Edition, 1970), these events contributed to the death of 2096". Is it means that Azeri forces burned and killed also Azeris?? Andranikpasha 09:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
"There was a fighting Shusha according to all reliable sources". Really, even all? Also that sources Parishan deleted? Also this one you cited here? Does "The sacking of Shusha by Azeri forces" means Shushi/Shusha fightings? Interesting logics! And I cant understand why to discusse here March days? It has a different talk page with well-known sources asking what happened, so why to discuss it here? Im going to translate and add some new materials on it but lets differ- this is a talk page for another topic. Andranikpasha 10:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
"quote that there was fighting in Shusha."- what the quote? pls represent. now I find out whats the problem with March days here! Another user added to that section before Parishan-s revert. I also see some things to discuss there but better not now as Im discussing another part. Grandmaster, also about fightings: today I downloaded Atabek's file from NYT History. It calls March Days fightings [7]. And after these facts you want to change the name, description and numbers for Shushi Massacres not for March Days?... Andranikpasha 20:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes cuz there were a political revolt and fightings, not massacres of one side! And you describe it as a massacre and ... 'genocide' in the description. Its interesting that all the time you claim to be the one who can choose neuthral names for articles. Remember your one (for the same Shushi Massacres) called silly by an admin! Are you going to attack the article by a new such a neuthral name? Or it will be third experience of simply deletion of sources and references? Andranikpasha 19:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Once again: you asked you have a "quote that there was fighting in Shusha."- what the quote? pls write less original texts with "virtual" sources and use at least one reliable source to prove something. Andranikpasha 19:42, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
"Strength" should give the number of troops (20,000, 50,000, etc), not the combatants involved, so having Dunsterforce listed there is a non-sequitur. Biruitorul 17:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
This article is in a terrible condition. Looks like some users should have read WP:OR.
Why is the Battle of Baku considered part of the Armenian–Azerbaijani War? It took place hundreds of kilometers away from Armenia. The Armenian residents of Baku supported the Allied forces, but that has nothing to do with the Armenian-Azerbaijani war, which took place in Karabakh, Zangezur, Nakhichevan and other border areas. -- Երևանցի talk 03:24, 6 September 2013 (UTC) All I can say is the Armenian–Azerbaijani War article features the Battle of Baku extensively so that should be changed correspondingly. Jaan Pärn ( talk) 03:32, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:38, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Armenian–Azerbaijani war (1918–1920). Per consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 13:08, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Armenian–Azerbaijani War → Armenian–Azerbaijani War (1918–1920) – the Armenian, Azerbaijani & Russian Wikipedia pages all use (1918–1920) to distinguish this war from later Armenian-Azerbaijani wars, and a fair number of the Russian-language sources generally seem to indicate that this war took place between 1918-1920. Personally, I think the title should be changed to reflect that. DJ ( talk) 22:19, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
The Karabakh Council should be very obviously added to the belligerents section, right under Armenia and Armenian militias. NocheLluviosa ( talk) 20:31, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Armenian–Azerbaijani war (1918–1920) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
Armenia,
Azerbaijan, or related conflicts, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 16 September 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Armenian–Azerbaijani war (1918–1920). The result of the discussion was Moved to Armenian–Azerbaijani war (1918–1920). |
![]() | This article contains a translation of Армяно-азербайджанская война (1918—1920) from ru.wikipedia. |
there was no Azerbaijan when hostilities ended
After having gained firm control of Azerbaijan, the Soviet forces moved on to reclaim the Armenian-occupied areas in the west for the Azerbaijan SSR. The Azeri army was reorganized along Soviet lines and reequipped with Russian weapons.-- Eupator 03:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I need advice - can the conflict be seen as part of Russian Civil War, or is it something completely separate? - Kami888
First of, the commander information seems to be accurate. Second, since the massacre of Armenians was much more reported and found in published works, I wonder why you have deleted that from the other editors edit, when the contrary, the reported massacre of Azeris is untouched. Also, you shall explain me why Nakhichevan planed to be part of the Armenian republic is according to Armenian sources, when it was on the middle, between 'Ottoman Armenia' and 'Russian Armenia', with it being considered as part of Russian Armenia. Again, I don't know what the hell you will answer, but I take once again the opportunity to say, that I do not have free times in my handes to be engaged in any disputes involving some ultranationalists. Just saying that so that you do not expect any answers from me. I just had a few minutes and saw what was missing in that article and what was reverted. Fad (ix) 16:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Wheres proof for this? some references please, not to mention it was Armenian before, [2] there was also Bolshevik before. Artaxiad 23:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
The Russian and Azeri offensive started in early June and resulted in quick defeat of Armenian forces. On June 5 the Armenian forces were expelled from Shusha. In early July Armenians withdrew from Tatev and suffered several defeats in Kazakh-Shamshadin area. On 28 July the Soviet forces and their Turkish allies staged an assault on Nakhichevan City, expelling Armenian forces and establishing a joint Russian/Azeri/Turkish occupation of the province. In early August, Armenian troops made one more attempt to take over Nakhichevan but were defeated at Shakh-Takhty by joint Soviet-Turkish corps. Thus, the Azerbaijan SSR was fully restored to the borders of Azerbaijan Democratic Republic prior to Armenian invasion.On August 10 1920, the cease-fire agreement was signed in Yerevan between Soviet and Armenian forces, ending the hostilities and forcing Armenia to recognize the Azeri control of Karabakh and temporary independence of Nakhichevan.
I don't think there is any doubt. If it please you more you can write "Azerbaijani and Russian victory" or "Armenian defeat", but the result doesn't change. ( Limonlimone 00:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC))
I think there are a lot of sources that can confirm you this version, for example the book cited at the end of the article as well as the links. In general we can divide this conflict into two parts, the first part was more favorable to Armenian side while the second and last part that was completly favorable to Azerbaijani side. In fact to be more precise I wrote "Azerbaijan SSR victory" to underline the fact that the war was won by Soviet Azerbaijan and not by ADR. In anycase it doesn't change much, during ADR the government was led by Musavatists, during SSR by the Communists, but we are still talking about Azerbaijan. If tomorrow the France government change colour that country is still named France. ( Limonlimone 00:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC))
I took out the sentence that said "Azerbaijani victory" since there is a citation tag in there for over a month, but there had been no references supporting it. ROOB323 08:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Listing British Empire on the same side as Armenia makes it sound as if the British actively supported the Armenian cause for Karabakh, which isn't true. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.225.112.144 ( talk) 22:55:35, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
The "Fight for Karabakh, early 1920" part seems to be a POV with a only one source referring one sentence. Where are the sources? We have many reliable sources asking about massacres during that fightings but article asks nothing about it just a clashes. What "clashes" without even one killed peaceful Azeri inhabitant (when a large number of Armenian inhabitants were massacred)? Andranikpasha 22:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Does GSE provide figures including losses of both sides... during March massacres in Shushi/Shusha? Can we have a quotation? Andranikpasha 11:19, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
"According to the Great Soviet Encyclopedia (Third Edition, 1970), these events ..."- what events? There isnt name of Shushi/Shusha, the name of event (massacres or even other variant) and period... this quotation is surely not reliable! "And GSE does not say that all the people who died were Armenian."- also mark- it never says- "by both sides" (of ...event). they write: "only a few Armenian families remained."(is it means that Azeri families were also killed??) there isnt a fact of killing even one peaceful Azerbaijani inhabitant during Shushi massacres! Andranikpasha 16:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Parishan, please at first read what we are discussing here to not write... about March Days. Surely March days in Baku, 1918, were different events than ...March Massacres in Shushi in 1920... I not only saw the related article but Im working on it. "The statement about Azerbaijani troops entering Shusha through breaking some agreement is based on an Armenian source." - What source you mean? I never added any Armenian sources to this article! You just deleted some sourced info... to wait for discussing. After discussing we will add more materials on Shushi Massacres, but before that we need even 2 words about it which you deleted! Parishan be more carefull while discussing "an annual report from the British parliament". I never added such a source here? really what you're discussing? Konstantin Voevodsky is co-author, he is a famous human rights defender from Soviet Union (he is an activist of International Human Rights congress of OSCE [5]) and very reliable source (by the way he cited at Memo.ru as independent observer at Karabakh referendum [6] its not a shame or base for unreliability)! De Vaal is not reliable, we discussed him as an "expert-businessman", he advertised by Azeri community in Moscow, and we had nothing from Potier about "both sides" (dont make original research): he cited a Soviet source and asking that Armenians fled the city. We cant create "killings of another side" just by a source asking "The sacking of Shusha by Azeri forces resulted in the burning of hundreds of homes. According to the Great Soviet Encyclopedia (Third Edition, 1970), these events contributed to the death of 2096". Is it means that Azeri forces burned and killed also Azeris?? Andranikpasha 09:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
"There was a fighting Shusha according to all reliable sources". Really, even all? Also that sources Parishan deleted? Also this one you cited here? Does "The sacking of Shusha by Azeri forces" means Shushi/Shusha fightings? Interesting logics! And I cant understand why to discusse here March days? It has a different talk page with well-known sources asking what happened, so why to discuss it here? Im going to translate and add some new materials on it but lets differ- this is a talk page for another topic. Andranikpasha 10:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
"quote that there was fighting in Shusha."- what the quote? pls represent. now I find out whats the problem with March days here! Another user added to that section before Parishan-s revert. I also see some things to discuss there but better not now as Im discussing another part. Grandmaster, also about fightings: today I downloaded Atabek's file from NYT History. It calls March Days fightings [7]. And after these facts you want to change the name, description and numbers for Shushi Massacres not for March Days?... Andranikpasha 20:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes cuz there were a political revolt and fightings, not massacres of one side! And you describe it as a massacre and ... 'genocide' in the description. Its interesting that all the time you claim to be the one who can choose neuthral names for articles. Remember your one (for the same Shushi Massacres) called silly by an admin! Are you going to attack the article by a new such a neuthral name? Or it will be third experience of simply deletion of sources and references? Andranikpasha 19:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Once again: you asked you have a "quote that there was fighting in Shusha."- what the quote? pls write less original texts with "virtual" sources and use at least one reliable source to prove something. Andranikpasha 19:42, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
"Strength" should give the number of troops (20,000, 50,000, etc), not the combatants involved, so having Dunsterforce listed there is a non-sequitur. Biruitorul 17:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
This article is in a terrible condition. Looks like some users should have read WP:OR.
Why is the Battle of Baku considered part of the Armenian–Azerbaijani War? It took place hundreds of kilometers away from Armenia. The Armenian residents of Baku supported the Allied forces, but that has nothing to do with the Armenian-Azerbaijani war, which took place in Karabakh, Zangezur, Nakhichevan and other border areas. -- Երևանցի talk 03:24, 6 September 2013 (UTC) All I can say is the Armenian–Azerbaijani War article features the Battle of Baku extensively so that should be changed correspondingly. Jaan Pärn ( talk) 03:32, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Armenian–Azerbaijani War. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:56, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:38, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Armenian–Azerbaijani war (1918–1920). Per consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 13:08, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Armenian–Azerbaijani War → Armenian–Azerbaijani War (1918–1920) – the Armenian, Azerbaijani & Russian Wikipedia pages all use (1918–1920) to distinguish this war from later Armenian-Azerbaijani wars, and a fair number of the Russian-language sources generally seem to indicate that this war took place between 1918-1920. Personally, I think the title should be changed to reflect that. DJ ( talk) 22:19, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
The Karabakh Council should be very obviously added to the belligerents section, right under Armenia and Armenian militias. NocheLluviosa ( talk) 20:31, 3 November 2023 (UTC)