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Ahhh, that "religion of peace." Yep, mighty peaceful when those not submitting to the Islamic horde are murdered. The dead don't make any noise.
Hackers have attacked one of the popular websites of the Arbëreshë community [www.jemi.it]. They pretend to have done this for the sake of Brazil, but the Albanians have nothing against Brazil; they rather respect and admire it as they have a part of their body there (immigrants). These hackers are actually trying to incriminate Brazil, but this shall not affect Albanians' attitude.
Please do something to fix this important website.-- Albanian since Stone Age 04:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I'd say that the very existence of our nation of Arbereshe speaks volumes about Islamic history!
I want to know How many Arbëreshë are living today in America and think of themsleves as Italians.
Source needed. Ali Pasha was brutal but really into religion. 6000 seems like a large number anyway —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keep it Fake ( talk • contribs) 12:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
True, many things about Ali Pasha are only rumors, he was cruel but many leaders of his time were also, after all he did rule during Napoleonic wars when many parts of Europe were battlefields, he didnt only fight against christians but even against muslims or anyone who opposed him, in the end he redeemed himself by fighting the Ottoman empire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.104.83 ( talk) 23:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
perhaps unsurprisingly, their language has been influenced more by Italian and Greek than has other Albanian dialects. -- Albanau 14:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I do not speak Albanian but it seems to me that the name of the language is Arbërisht and not Arbëresh. In that case, there an effort should be made to proper disambiguate this from Arvanitika spoken in Greece, or ot merge the two articles (if they are to be considered to describe dialects of the same language). Andreas (T) 01:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I think we need to get some articles made about the Arbëreshë food. The pictures are good but its offsetting the alingment of the gallery near the bottom. - Gennarous ( talk) 16:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
There are more to do, but a have little spare time. Any help would be more than welcomed Aigest ( talk) 14:47, 17 September 2009 (UTC) As soon as possible.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:55, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
There is a wrong position sponsored by Albanians by trying to place the Arbereshe within the modern Albanian nation. The Arbereshe that arrived in Italy were former Byzantine population, both culturally and in terms of religion, although some Arbereshe were Latin-rite catholics. The modern "Albanian" conception was alien to them. Since for the western world the Byzantines were regarded wrongly as Greeks, this is the reason why Arbereshe were labelled as "Greeks" (Greci) when they installed in Southern Italy. This categorization was kept up to the late 20's when Mussolini's expansionist visions towards both Albania and Greece, made Arbereshe to be "Albanians", up to changing the medieval names for villages and churches ("Piana dei Albanesi" was in fact "Piana dei Greci"). Arbereshe consider themselves Arbereshe, not Albanians ("Albanesi" in Italian). Arbereshe feel no connection to Shqiptars and Kosovars at all. Their only link with modern Albania is geographical since their original motherland lies within present boundaries of the newly formed Albanian state. Arbereshe regard themselves as the descendants of Ancient Pelasgians, and the remnants of Scanderbeg's armies. They do not even share official Albanian hypothesis of their supposed ethnogenesis. In fact, many Arbereshe were among the most vehement against Albanian immigration in the early 90's . Modern Albanians are considered by Arbereshe as the result of the ammalgamation with Turks, Gypsies and Slavs. Periptero ( talk) 18:45, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
(unindent)Athenean that Arbereshe are actually the extreme opposite of the Arvanites meaning that they do preserve their language, they were amongst the most prominent activists of the Albanian National Awakening. I'll add the sources and please Periptero don't make comments like that in Albanian. Btw enough said [1]-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 08:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
The map from the 19th century is incorrect, as it shows the Griko communities of Bovesia and Grecia Salentina as "Albaner". Yet, as this article makes clear, the only Arberesh communities in Calabria are to be found in the Province of Cosenza, Province of Catanzaro and Province of Crotone. There is not mention of Arberesh in the Province of Reggio di Calabria. And we know that at the southern top of this province, in the commune of Bovesia, there is a Griko speaking community. Yet on the map, that community is incorrectly shown as "Albaner". Same for Apulia: While the Arberesh in Apulia are to be found in the Province of Foggia and the Province of Taranto, the map shows "Albaner" in the area of Salento, at the southern tip of the "heel". Yet, precisely in that area shown in the map as "Albaner" lies the Griko speaking community of Grecia Salentina, while there is no mention anywhere of any Arberesh in that area. The map thus completely contradicts the text of the article, and is just plain wrong, conflating Griko-speaking communities as Arberesh, even though the two are completely distinct. Given that the map is extremely old (1850s), that is perhaps not surprising. The ethnic labels used then were very different from now, and perceptions of ethnicity and terminology have changed dramatically. What may have been cutting edge in the 1850s is archaic, outdated and anachronistic today. Such a map may well belong in a museum, but not here. Athenean ( talk) 23:02, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Here is a clear source about the differences between Arbereshe and Albanians [2]. As a conclusion I quote what Arbereshe from Molise feel: "...Loro si appellano Arbrèsh e con gli albanesi attuali non hanno nulla a che fare..." (Arberesh with the present Albanians there is no match); "... sono musulmani ed ex-comunisti, noi cattolici, di rito greco ..."(Albanians are muslims and former communists meanwhile we are Greek rite catholics); "... tra noi, oggi, c’è anche chi si vergogna di passare per un albanese ..." (for us today, it is shame to be mistaken with an Albanian). Periptero ( talk) 02:32, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
to my knowledge, they came to epirus and macedonia and shkodra from sicily, where they came from caucasian albania 79.125.225.208 ( talk) 16:46, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I am Arbëresh and living in America. I was born and raised here but my family is from southern Italy (and are Arbëreshë) and immigrated here. I consider myself Arbëresh and Italian. Most Americans have no idea who the Arbëreshë people are so it's much easier for me to identify as Italian. I'm proud to be Italian and I'm proud to be Arbëresh. As far as identifying as Albanian, I don't and neither does my family. 75.18.38.191 ( talk) 06:07, 19 February 2012 (UTC)Leila
Dienekes' Anthropology, Y chromosomes of Arbereshe from Calabria.-- Zoupan 18:01, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
There aren't Muslim minorities in the Arbereshe communities. Read their history, please. Don't manipulate the historical truth. Arbereshe are Christian people (Orthodox Christianity) escaped from Balkans during the Ottoman invasion. How can exist Muslim minorities in their communities? -- Prodebugger ( talk) 10:16, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
Religion is not limited to ethnicity. "How can they be Muslim?" Many have converted to Islam over the years — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.237.22.166 ( talk) 13:33, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
If I see, the number of Arbëreshë people set into the info-box was incorrect, including descendants of hundreds of thousands Italians, who haven'n any sentiments neither to Albania, nor to the Albanians. Please, provide reliable sources confirming the persense of these numbers. Also, do not delete reliable academic sources. Thank you. Jingiby ( talk) 13:02, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
this article is obviously heavily edited by albanians to match their nationalistic rhetoric. arbereshe are southern italians, they have been so by half a millennium and the absolute majority of them consider themselves as such; until the 20th century they had zero link to albania or modern albanians. in their folk songs they never mention albania\shqiperia but they lament the loss of their true homeland : morea.
the greater majority of albanians\kosovar that where sent to arberesh villages during the ninties, thinking to ease their integration, left very soon after it became clear that their only similarity ended to the language; orthox christianity being the central pillar of the arbereshe identity.
lastly pope albani doesn't belong to the arberesh since he descended from a catholic albanian settled in northern italy; contrary to the orthodox albanians who escaped to southern italy and where granted land that enabled them to maintain the language catholic albanians to northern italy where quickly assimilated.
ps: no sources of giorgio basta being an arberesh, he need to be removed together with clement xi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.50.55.115 ( talk) 11:03, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
There are many myths there, and it takes some reading to find the true history. Read Ardian Muhaj "Le origini economiche e demografiche dell’insediamento degli arbëreshë in Italia. Dal medioevo alla prima età moderna", Basiliscos, Rivista specialistica annuale dell’ Istituto di Studi Storici per la Basilicata Meridionale, 3 (2016), pp. 21-35.
According to this article the Arbeshe fled Albania in the 15th century.In the Arberesh language page it is stated that Arberesh derived from Arvanitika in Greece.If that is so,how come the Arbereshe people originated from what is modern-day Albania and not Greece?
are also called the Italian-Arbëreshë people — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.84.215.13 ( talk) 08:32, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
User @ Rolandi+: has made a some edits to pages about Arbëreshë people that I find questionable. In order to collect the discussion in one place, and in the hope of getting the attention of other editors, I raise the question here.
The user has been changing the ethnicity field in the infobox of the articles Giuseppe Schirò and Gabriele Dara from Arbëreshë to Albanian. I reverted both edits, hoping for a discussion according to the WP:BRD principle, but the user has chosen to resolve to edit war, giving edit summaries like "arbereshe are not an ethnic group,but part of the ethnic+linguistic albanian community in italy" and "ethnic and lingusitic community of albanian ethnicity". I am at a loss to understand how an ethnic community can be "not an ethnic group" or how a distinct ethnic community can be of another ethnicity.
The user has also made an edit to this article, changing the description of Arvanites in Greece from "a bilingual community" to "an Albanian community". This is not in itself a very serious POV edit, but I find the former expression much more informative for the casual reader, so I have reverted this edit, too.
Taken in connection, I feel there is a POV-pattern of trying to deny the existence of separate Arbëreshë and Arvanite ethnicities. I challenge Rolandi+ to self revert their warlike edits and take part in this discussion instead, and I hope for input from other editors. Regards! -- T*U ( talk) 14:36, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Valentino is listed as being someone of Italo-Albanian descent, but his Wiki bio makes no mention of this (though it does point out that his mother was French). A quick Google search didn't seem to turn anything up. Some source or other such evidence would be in order, no? Mpaniello ( talk) 00:06, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Ahhh, that "religion of peace." Yep, mighty peaceful when those not submitting to the Islamic horde are murdered. The dead don't make any noise.
Hackers have attacked one of the popular websites of the Arbëreshë community [www.jemi.it]. They pretend to have done this for the sake of Brazil, but the Albanians have nothing against Brazil; they rather respect and admire it as they have a part of their body there (immigrants). These hackers are actually trying to incriminate Brazil, but this shall not affect Albanians' attitude.
Please do something to fix this important website.-- Albanian since Stone Age 04:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I'd say that the very existence of our nation of Arbereshe speaks volumes about Islamic history!
I want to know How many Arbëreshë are living today in America and think of themsleves as Italians.
Source needed. Ali Pasha was brutal but really into religion. 6000 seems like a large number anyway —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keep it Fake ( talk • contribs) 12:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
True, many things about Ali Pasha are only rumors, he was cruel but many leaders of his time were also, after all he did rule during Napoleonic wars when many parts of Europe were battlefields, he didnt only fight against christians but even against muslims or anyone who opposed him, in the end he redeemed himself by fighting the Ottoman empire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.104.83 ( talk) 23:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
perhaps unsurprisingly, their language has been influenced more by Italian and Greek than has other Albanian dialects. -- Albanau 14:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I do not speak Albanian but it seems to me that the name of the language is Arbërisht and not Arbëresh. In that case, there an effort should be made to proper disambiguate this from Arvanitika spoken in Greece, or ot merge the two articles (if they are to be considered to describe dialects of the same language). Andreas (T) 01:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I think we need to get some articles made about the Arbëreshë food. The pictures are good but its offsetting the alingment of the gallery near the bottom. - Gennarous ( talk) 16:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
There are more to do, but a have little spare time. Any help would be more than welcomed Aigest ( talk) 14:47, 17 September 2009 (UTC) As soon as possible.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:55, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
There is a wrong position sponsored by Albanians by trying to place the Arbereshe within the modern Albanian nation. The Arbereshe that arrived in Italy were former Byzantine population, both culturally and in terms of religion, although some Arbereshe were Latin-rite catholics. The modern "Albanian" conception was alien to them. Since for the western world the Byzantines were regarded wrongly as Greeks, this is the reason why Arbereshe were labelled as "Greeks" (Greci) when they installed in Southern Italy. This categorization was kept up to the late 20's when Mussolini's expansionist visions towards both Albania and Greece, made Arbereshe to be "Albanians", up to changing the medieval names for villages and churches ("Piana dei Albanesi" was in fact "Piana dei Greci"). Arbereshe consider themselves Arbereshe, not Albanians ("Albanesi" in Italian). Arbereshe feel no connection to Shqiptars and Kosovars at all. Their only link with modern Albania is geographical since their original motherland lies within present boundaries of the newly formed Albanian state. Arbereshe regard themselves as the descendants of Ancient Pelasgians, and the remnants of Scanderbeg's armies. They do not even share official Albanian hypothesis of their supposed ethnogenesis. In fact, many Arbereshe were among the most vehement against Albanian immigration in the early 90's . Modern Albanians are considered by Arbereshe as the result of the ammalgamation with Turks, Gypsies and Slavs. Periptero ( talk) 18:45, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
(unindent)Athenean that Arbereshe are actually the extreme opposite of the Arvanites meaning that they do preserve their language, they were amongst the most prominent activists of the Albanian National Awakening. I'll add the sources and please Periptero don't make comments like that in Albanian. Btw enough said [1]-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 08:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
The map from the 19th century is incorrect, as it shows the Griko communities of Bovesia and Grecia Salentina as "Albaner". Yet, as this article makes clear, the only Arberesh communities in Calabria are to be found in the Province of Cosenza, Province of Catanzaro and Province of Crotone. There is not mention of Arberesh in the Province of Reggio di Calabria. And we know that at the southern top of this province, in the commune of Bovesia, there is a Griko speaking community. Yet on the map, that community is incorrectly shown as "Albaner". Same for Apulia: While the Arberesh in Apulia are to be found in the Province of Foggia and the Province of Taranto, the map shows "Albaner" in the area of Salento, at the southern tip of the "heel". Yet, precisely in that area shown in the map as "Albaner" lies the Griko speaking community of Grecia Salentina, while there is no mention anywhere of any Arberesh in that area. The map thus completely contradicts the text of the article, and is just plain wrong, conflating Griko-speaking communities as Arberesh, even though the two are completely distinct. Given that the map is extremely old (1850s), that is perhaps not surprising. The ethnic labels used then were very different from now, and perceptions of ethnicity and terminology have changed dramatically. What may have been cutting edge in the 1850s is archaic, outdated and anachronistic today. Such a map may well belong in a museum, but not here. Athenean ( talk) 23:02, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Here is a clear source about the differences between Arbereshe and Albanians [2]. As a conclusion I quote what Arbereshe from Molise feel: "...Loro si appellano Arbrèsh e con gli albanesi attuali non hanno nulla a che fare..." (Arberesh with the present Albanians there is no match); "... sono musulmani ed ex-comunisti, noi cattolici, di rito greco ..."(Albanians are muslims and former communists meanwhile we are Greek rite catholics); "... tra noi, oggi, c’è anche chi si vergogna di passare per un albanese ..." (for us today, it is shame to be mistaken with an Albanian). Periptero ( talk) 02:32, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
to my knowledge, they came to epirus and macedonia and shkodra from sicily, where they came from caucasian albania 79.125.225.208 ( talk) 16:46, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I am Arbëresh and living in America. I was born and raised here but my family is from southern Italy (and are Arbëreshë) and immigrated here. I consider myself Arbëresh and Italian. Most Americans have no idea who the Arbëreshë people are so it's much easier for me to identify as Italian. I'm proud to be Italian and I'm proud to be Arbëresh. As far as identifying as Albanian, I don't and neither does my family. 75.18.38.191 ( talk) 06:07, 19 February 2012 (UTC)Leila
Dienekes' Anthropology, Y chromosomes of Arbereshe from Calabria.-- Zoupan 18:01, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
There aren't Muslim minorities in the Arbereshe communities. Read their history, please. Don't manipulate the historical truth. Arbereshe are Christian people (Orthodox Christianity) escaped from Balkans during the Ottoman invasion. How can exist Muslim minorities in their communities? -- Prodebugger ( talk) 10:16, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
Religion is not limited to ethnicity. "How can they be Muslim?" Many have converted to Islam over the years — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.237.22.166 ( talk) 13:33, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
If I see, the number of Arbëreshë people set into the info-box was incorrect, including descendants of hundreds of thousands Italians, who haven'n any sentiments neither to Albania, nor to the Albanians. Please, provide reliable sources confirming the persense of these numbers. Also, do not delete reliable academic sources. Thank you. Jingiby ( talk) 13:02, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
this article is obviously heavily edited by albanians to match their nationalistic rhetoric. arbereshe are southern italians, they have been so by half a millennium and the absolute majority of them consider themselves as such; until the 20th century they had zero link to albania or modern albanians. in their folk songs they never mention albania\shqiperia but they lament the loss of their true homeland : morea.
the greater majority of albanians\kosovar that where sent to arberesh villages during the ninties, thinking to ease their integration, left very soon after it became clear that their only similarity ended to the language; orthox christianity being the central pillar of the arbereshe identity.
lastly pope albani doesn't belong to the arberesh since he descended from a catholic albanian settled in northern italy; contrary to the orthodox albanians who escaped to southern italy and where granted land that enabled them to maintain the language catholic albanians to northern italy where quickly assimilated.
ps: no sources of giorgio basta being an arberesh, he need to be removed together with clement xi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.50.55.115 ( talk) 11:03, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
There are many myths there, and it takes some reading to find the true history. Read Ardian Muhaj "Le origini economiche e demografiche dell’insediamento degli arbëreshë in Italia. Dal medioevo alla prima età moderna", Basiliscos, Rivista specialistica annuale dell’ Istituto di Studi Storici per la Basilicata Meridionale, 3 (2016), pp. 21-35.
According to this article the Arbeshe fled Albania in the 15th century.In the Arberesh language page it is stated that Arberesh derived from Arvanitika in Greece.If that is so,how come the Arbereshe people originated from what is modern-day Albania and not Greece?
are also called the Italian-Arbëreshë people — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.84.215.13 ( talk) 08:32, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
User @ Rolandi+: has made a some edits to pages about Arbëreshë people that I find questionable. In order to collect the discussion in one place, and in the hope of getting the attention of other editors, I raise the question here.
The user has been changing the ethnicity field in the infobox of the articles Giuseppe Schirò and Gabriele Dara from Arbëreshë to Albanian. I reverted both edits, hoping for a discussion according to the WP:BRD principle, but the user has chosen to resolve to edit war, giving edit summaries like "arbereshe are not an ethnic group,but part of the ethnic+linguistic albanian community in italy" and "ethnic and lingusitic community of albanian ethnicity". I am at a loss to understand how an ethnic community can be "not an ethnic group" or how a distinct ethnic community can be of another ethnicity.
The user has also made an edit to this article, changing the description of Arvanites in Greece from "a bilingual community" to "an Albanian community". This is not in itself a very serious POV edit, but I find the former expression much more informative for the casual reader, so I have reverted this edit, too.
Taken in connection, I feel there is a POV-pattern of trying to deny the existence of separate Arbëreshë and Arvanite ethnicities. I challenge Rolandi+ to self revert their warlike edits and take part in this discussion instead, and I hope for input from other editors. Regards! -- T*U ( talk) 14:36, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Valentino is listed as being someone of Italo-Albanian descent, but his Wiki bio makes no mention of this (though it does point out that his mother was French). A quick Google search didn't seem to turn anything up. Some source or other such evidence would be in order, no? Mpaniello ( talk) 00:06, 27 October 2018 (UTC)