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As long as I understand, Արաքսի Չէդինեան (formerly used in this article) = Araksi Çedinyan, Արաքսի Չեթինյան = Araksi Çetinyan. Takabeg ( talk) 13:42, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Kim Kardashian's father was a third-generation Armenian American. Araksi Çetinyan was an Armenian. Takabeg ( talk) 14:00, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Probably File:Araksi cetinyan.jpg is not the photo of Araksi Çetinyan but Günseli Başar. Takabeg ( talk) 05:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
The source No 5 (at the moment) refers to the 1929 beauty contest in Turkey and not this one. As we have in this article a user who frequently makes "honest mistakes" I wanted to attract attention to this situation. Someone please remove that edit as I do not like to be taken as I have a personal issue with any user. Thanks.-- E4024 ( talk) 21:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Done
OK ?
Takabeg (
talk)
22:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Here: "According to the information given by Mr. Alen Mouradian, the organizer of the competition; the first contest had organized on May 3rd in Istanbul, Turkey which is thousands of miles away from here.
The competition has held at Beyoglu district of Istanbul, in Melek Cinema Hall and the winner was Miss. Araksi Çetinyan, who was working in the cinema as place demonstrator. But when the newspapers claimed that Miss. Araksi Çetinyan was favored, the organizers deemed that the contest doesn’t done and retrieve the title given to Araksi Çetinyan.
If the title of Miss. Araksi Çetinyan was not ignored, Miss Cavagnaro of whom her beauty browsed around tongue to tongue would not receive this title."
This is from one of the sources. The source says Miss Çetinyan was favoured and her title retrieved.
We have a serious problem here. I suggest the user who makes continuous "honest mistakes" be blocked from editing WP. I may show the other "honest mistakes" (I mean the ones that I have been able to detect) in case there is an administrative interested in this situation... -- E4024 ( talk) 21:40, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
According to ‘‘Güzellik Kraliçeleri ve Güzellik Müsabakalarının Tarihçesi’’ which was published in 1932,
‘‘Türkiye'de ilk güzellik müsabakası, altı yedi sene evvel bir film şirketinin tertibi ile Melek Sineması'nda yapılmıştır. Bu müsabaka, ciddi ve muntazam bir şekilde tertip edilmediği için iyi olmamıştır. Sahneye çıkan kızların bazıları alkışlar, bazıları ıslıklarla karşılanmış, bir takım delikanlı grupları kendi tanıdıkları ve beğendikleri kızlar lehinde gürültülü nümayişler yapmışlar, nihayet birinciliği, aynı sinemada halka yer gösteren Madmazel Araksi Çetinyan isminde bir Ermeni kızı kazanmıştır. Bu müsabakanın mükafatı, birincinin sinema artisti olarak Amerika'ya gönderilmesi olduğu halde Madmazel Araksi Çetinyan'ın hâlâ İstanbul'da olması maksadın, müsabakayı tertip eden film şirketinin üste para da kazanarak kendisine reklâm yapmak isteyen bir açıkgözlüğünden ibaret olduğunu göstermiştir. Bu ilk güzellik müsabakası halk ve gazeteler tarafından istihza ile karşılanmıştır.’’
Hürriyet took this from the book of Gökhan Akçura. Abdullah Muradoğlu also quoted same sentence.
And according to ‘‘Güzellik Kraliçeleri ve Güzellik Müsabakalarının Tarihçesi’’, Araksi was working for the sinema.
Takabeg ( talk) 23:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
@
User:E4024: I will control them. Please read
Wikipedia:Assume good faith,
Wikipedia:Civility etc.. again. Thank you.
Takabeg (
talk)
22:41, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Although a blogger published it in his/her own blog, Mustafa Özgür's article is not a blog. His article was published in Vakit, which is an Islamist newspaper. Takabeg ( talk) 07:17, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
User Proudbolsahye is destroying WP. Now that their article has been demonstrated not to depend on the NPOV and good-faith use of reliable sources but the misuse of dubious sources, they began lying. I just removed a lie "that the said contest was invalidated due to "lack of ethnic Turkish women participating" (because there is nothing like that in the given sources) and they reverted my removal with this edit summary: "Please read hurriyet source number 7 " “Namuslu her Türk kızı” müsabakaya iştirak edebilirken bar kadınları yarışmadan men edilmiştir.” That source is about the first beauty contest in Turkey realised in the year 1929. It says that every modest (decent) Turkish girl may attend and "women of bars" are prohibited from participation. Miss Araksi Çetinyan has attended the contest as one of the participating modest (decent) Turkish girl and finished as third. I have no clue what this has to do with the so-called contest in 1925 (or 26 ?). (The "bar women" is a qualification of those times referring to certain professions and has nothing to do with the participating ladies; it is about those other ladies who would not be accepted to the contest. And I repeat this is about the contest of 1929 and has nothing to do with this article. -- E4024 ( talk) 10:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Note: This contradiction (1925 or 1926) was caused by the sentence: Türkiye'de ilk güzellik müsabakası, altı yedi sene evvel bir film şirketinin tertibi ile Melek Sineması'nda yapılmıştır. in "Güzellik Kraliçeleri ve Güzellik Müsabakalarının Tarihçesi"). According to 21st century-writers (e.g. Yüksel Göğebakan, Hakan Yurdakul etc..), 1926. Takabeg ( talk) 07:45, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
The source no 6 -as of this moment- is not titled "Women and Culture" (that is the title of an antology of articles) and in that antology Dr Yüksel Göğebakan (see "References" of our article) appears with an academic article titled "WOMEN AS THE MOTHER GODDESS CULT IN ANATOLIA" (whose abstract in English is also provided). This article deals with the paganic concept of "Mother Goddess" in Anatolia and does not mention anywhere the first, second, or any other beauty pageant realised in the Republic of Turkey. No need to say, it does not make any mention of Ms Çetinyan or any other beauty queen, with a recognised or "retrieved" title. That article could be helpful as a source in the articles considering Anatolia and Kybele and similars (in case it has not been already used, but I doubt that without even checking because of my prior observation of how Turkish sources are generally neglected in WP considering Turkey's ancient past) but has no place in this one. I think some users add sources without reading them. -- E4024 ( talk) 16:44, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
EtienneDolet, please show me exactly where it says that the winner's Armenian ethnicity was the reason for the annulment of the contest. Parishan ( talk) 02:49, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
“ | With an Armenian winner, the contest disregarded Turkish girls and was therefore not taken into consideration by the public. | ” |
Apart from indicating the possessor in a noun phrase (14.3.2, 14.4), possessive suffixes are also added to the subordinating suffixes -DIK, -(y)AcAK, -mA and -(y)Iş (8.5.1) to mark the subject of the subordinate clause: ilgilendiğimiz (konular) ‘(the topics) that we are interested in’,
I never asked about your personal opinions towards my understanding of Turkish so please don't get personal with me. All I said was that -miş is used as a suffix to indicate unseen past verbs. As for your insistance with the showed no interest proposal, I think it's a suitable compromise. Étienne Dolet ( talk) 22:08, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
I noticed you reinserted the reference to the winner's Armenian origin in an attempt to tie it to the annulment of the contest. May I remind you that I never agreed to this wording. There is nothing in the sources that suggests that the Armenian origin and the annulment have anything in common. Parishan ( talk) 23:46, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
“ | According to another source, after an Armenian girl was chosen as winner, the contest was annulled since no Turkish women showed interest in it. | ” |
“ | In 1926, at a beauty contest attempted by İpek Film Şirketi, an Armenian girl named Miss Araksi Çetinyan was chosen as the winner; however, the contest, which showed no interest by Turkish girls, was annulled. | ” |
I am not opposed to simply quoting the sentence, except "which showed no interest by Turkish girls" does not sound well in English. I suggest: "(first part); however, the contest, which Turkish girls took no interest in, was ultimately disregarded". The latter word is more appropriate, given that we decided to copy the quote as it is. Parishan ( talk) 20:07, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 29 December 2012 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
As long as I understand, Արաքսի Չէդինեան (formerly used in this article) = Araksi Çedinyan, Արաքսի Չեթինյան = Araksi Çetinyan. Takabeg ( talk) 13:42, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Kim Kardashian's father was a third-generation Armenian American. Araksi Çetinyan was an Armenian. Takabeg ( talk) 14:00, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Probably File:Araksi cetinyan.jpg is not the photo of Araksi Çetinyan but Günseli Başar. Takabeg ( talk) 05:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
The source No 5 (at the moment) refers to the 1929 beauty contest in Turkey and not this one. As we have in this article a user who frequently makes "honest mistakes" I wanted to attract attention to this situation. Someone please remove that edit as I do not like to be taken as I have a personal issue with any user. Thanks.-- E4024 ( talk) 21:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Done
OK ?
Takabeg (
talk)
22:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Here: "According to the information given by Mr. Alen Mouradian, the organizer of the competition; the first contest had organized on May 3rd in Istanbul, Turkey which is thousands of miles away from here.
The competition has held at Beyoglu district of Istanbul, in Melek Cinema Hall and the winner was Miss. Araksi Çetinyan, who was working in the cinema as place demonstrator. But when the newspapers claimed that Miss. Araksi Çetinyan was favored, the organizers deemed that the contest doesn’t done and retrieve the title given to Araksi Çetinyan.
If the title of Miss. Araksi Çetinyan was not ignored, Miss Cavagnaro of whom her beauty browsed around tongue to tongue would not receive this title."
This is from one of the sources. The source says Miss Çetinyan was favoured and her title retrieved.
We have a serious problem here. I suggest the user who makes continuous "honest mistakes" be blocked from editing WP. I may show the other "honest mistakes" (I mean the ones that I have been able to detect) in case there is an administrative interested in this situation... -- E4024 ( talk) 21:40, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
According to ‘‘Güzellik Kraliçeleri ve Güzellik Müsabakalarının Tarihçesi’’ which was published in 1932,
‘‘Türkiye'de ilk güzellik müsabakası, altı yedi sene evvel bir film şirketinin tertibi ile Melek Sineması'nda yapılmıştır. Bu müsabaka, ciddi ve muntazam bir şekilde tertip edilmediği için iyi olmamıştır. Sahneye çıkan kızların bazıları alkışlar, bazıları ıslıklarla karşılanmış, bir takım delikanlı grupları kendi tanıdıkları ve beğendikleri kızlar lehinde gürültülü nümayişler yapmışlar, nihayet birinciliği, aynı sinemada halka yer gösteren Madmazel Araksi Çetinyan isminde bir Ermeni kızı kazanmıştır. Bu müsabakanın mükafatı, birincinin sinema artisti olarak Amerika'ya gönderilmesi olduğu halde Madmazel Araksi Çetinyan'ın hâlâ İstanbul'da olması maksadın, müsabakayı tertip eden film şirketinin üste para da kazanarak kendisine reklâm yapmak isteyen bir açıkgözlüğünden ibaret olduğunu göstermiştir. Bu ilk güzellik müsabakası halk ve gazeteler tarafından istihza ile karşılanmıştır.’’
Hürriyet took this from the book of Gökhan Akçura. Abdullah Muradoğlu also quoted same sentence.
And according to ‘‘Güzellik Kraliçeleri ve Güzellik Müsabakalarının Tarihçesi’’, Araksi was working for the sinema.
Takabeg ( talk) 23:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
@
User:E4024: I will control them. Please read
Wikipedia:Assume good faith,
Wikipedia:Civility etc.. again. Thank you.
Takabeg (
talk)
22:41, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Although a blogger published it in his/her own blog, Mustafa Özgür's article is not a blog. His article was published in Vakit, which is an Islamist newspaper. Takabeg ( talk) 07:17, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
User Proudbolsahye is destroying WP. Now that their article has been demonstrated not to depend on the NPOV and good-faith use of reliable sources but the misuse of dubious sources, they began lying. I just removed a lie "that the said contest was invalidated due to "lack of ethnic Turkish women participating" (because there is nothing like that in the given sources) and they reverted my removal with this edit summary: "Please read hurriyet source number 7 " “Namuslu her Türk kızı” müsabakaya iştirak edebilirken bar kadınları yarışmadan men edilmiştir.” That source is about the first beauty contest in Turkey realised in the year 1929. It says that every modest (decent) Turkish girl may attend and "women of bars" are prohibited from participation. Miss Araksi Çetinyan has attended the contest as one of the participating modest (decent) Turkish girl and finished as third. I have no clue what this has to do with the so-called contest in 1925 (or 26 ?). (The "bar women" is a qualification of those times referring to certain professions and has nothing to do with the participating ladies; it is about those other ladies who would not be accepted to the contest. And I repeat this is about the contest of 1929 and has nothing to do with this article. -- E4024 ( talk) 10:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Note: This contradiction (1925 or 1926) was caused by the sentence: Türkiye'de ilk güzellik müsabakası, altı yedi sene evvel bir film şirketinin tertibi ile Melek Sineması'nda yapılmıştır. in "Güzellik Kraliçeleri ve Güzellik Müsabakalarının Tarihçesi"). According to 21st century-writers (e.g. Yüksel Göğebakan, Hakan Yurdakul etc..), 1926. Takabeg ( talk) 07:45, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
The source no 6 -as of this moment- is not titled "Women and Culture" (that is the title of an antology of articles) and in that antology Dr Yüksel Göğebakan (see "References" of our article) appears with an academic article titled "WOMEN AS THE MOTHER GODDESS CULT IN ANATOLIA" (whose abstract in English is also provided). This article deals with the paganic concept of "Mother Goddess" in Anatolia and does not mention anywhere the first, second, or any other beauty pageant realised in the Republic of Turkey. No need to say, it does not make any mention of Ms Çetinyan or any other beauty queen, with a recognised or "retrieved" title. That article could be helpful as a source in the articles considering Anatolia and Kybele and similars (in case it has not been already used, but I doubt that without even checking because of my prior observation of how Turkish sources are generally neglected in WP considering Turkey's ancient past) but has no place in this one. I think some users add sources without reading them. -- E4024 ( talk) 16:44, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
EtienneDolet, please show me exactly where it says that the winner's Armenian ethnicity was the reason for the annulment of the contest. Parishan ( talk) 02:49, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
“ | With an Armenian winner, the contest disregarded Turkish girls and was therefore not taken into consideration by the public. | ” |
Apart from indicating the possessor in a noun phrase (14.3.2, 14.4), possessive suffixes are also added to the subordinating suffixes -DIK, -(y)AcAK, -mA and -(y)Iş (8.5.1) to mark the subject of the subordinate clause: ilgilendiğimiz (konular) ‘(the topics) that we are interested in’,
I never asked about your personal opinions towards my understanding of Turkish so please don't get personal with me. All I said was that -miş is used as a suffix to indicate unseen past verbs. As for your insistance with the showed no interest proposal, I think it's a suitable compromise. Étienne Dolet ( talk) 22:08, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
I noticed you reinserted the reference to the winner's Armenian origin in an attempt to tie it to the annulment of the contest. May I remind you that I never agreed to this wording. There is nothing in the sources that suggests that the Armenian origin and the annulment have anything in common. Parishan ( talk) 23:46, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
“ | According to another source, after an Armenian girl was chosen as winner, the contest was annulled since no Turkish women showed interest in it. | ” |
“ | In 1926, at a beauty contest attempted by İpek Film Şirketi, an Armenian girl named Miss Araksi Çetinyan was chosen as the winner; however, the contest, which showed no interest by Turkish girls, was annulled. | ” |
I am not opposed to simply quoting the sentence, except "which showed no interest by Turkish girls" does not sound well in English. I suggest: "(first part); however, the contest, which Turkish girls took no interest in, was ultimately disregarded". The latter word is more appropriate, given that we decided to copy the quote as it is. Parishan ( talk) 20:07, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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