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its amazing to see Pakistan not in the list of arabic speaking comm.
other then quranic arabic(classic arabic)
these things make me belive that pakistan also has arabic speaking community. الثاقب (WiseSabre| talk) 11:14, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
Think Mother-tounge y'all Angrynight 06:53, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Egyptian Arabic is not legally co-official in Egypt; rather, there, as in most countries, the law makes no distinction between classical and colloquial Arabic, while only the former is valid for written government documents. Mauritania's official language is Arabic; Hassaniya is officially a national language. Nor does Arabic (or any other native language) enjoy official status in Mali or Senegal; rather, it is relegated to the rather less meaningful national language category. see http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/afrique/afracc.htm for a detailed overview for each country, usually quoting relevant laws. - Mustafaa 20:20, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm planning on writing some articles for the Arabic Language section. However, I'm in the process of deciding which transcription convention to use. I am well aware of my options for Arabic, but I wanted to get some discussion on the subject before I arbitrarily choose one. While the IPA is wonderful for linguistic publications, I'm not sure of its usefulness for an encyclopedia; to me, it seems a bit too technical. One has to know the linguistic terminology to figure out how to pronounce the word. I don't mean we shouldn't use it at all, I just wondering if a simpler alternative would be better (and would display on the screen without the boxes). Also, I realize that someone (or people) did a lot of work in transcribing in IPA for this section. I certainly do not want to re-do someone else's work, but I want to make the encyclopedia useful for everyone.
Any comments/suggestions are welcome!! (preceding unsigned comment by Carmen1973 ( talk · contribs) 11:30, 15 October 2005)
I've been reading the Arabic Language#Literary and Modern Standard Arabic article and noticed that the editor seems to have used conflicting terminology, although I'm sure that s/he understands the concepts very clearly. However, to a general, English-speaking audience, this may sound very confusing. For example, they use the term "Literary Arabic" alongside with "Modern Standard Arabic." Their description certainly leads one to believe that LA and MSA are one and the same. Shouldn't we adopt one or the other? Taking into account that MSA can be both written and spoken (depending on the occasion), which is more appropriate?
Also, most linguists have termed the language of the Qur'an as Classical Arabic, as opposed to Literary Arabic (or Modern Standard Arabic). I would think that the differences between the two would be stylistic and lexical, due to word coining for modern concepts. So, should we consider MSA "separate" from Classical Arabic, although both may be اللغة العربية الفصحى?
I think it's imperative that we reach a consensus on this so we can minimize confusion on the part of our readers.
I would like to thank whoever wrote this article; they obviously spent a lot of time doing it!!
-- Carmen 03:34, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Why were my edits over-written. Its a fact that when listing the languages of the world by the number of nations that claim them as official or national, then Arabic comes in third after English and French. Also, when talking about Palestine, all the arab countries recognize a Palestinian state under occupation. In the spirit of unbiased, free thinking Palestine should be refered to as Palestine (one and complete), not as Gaza and the "Palestine region". So as not to be accused of dillusion I had left Israel as is when I corrected the mishandling of Palestine. Having said all this I think that this website is very through, I appreciated the last comment on how collequial Yemeni Arabic is very similar to Classical Arabic. Up until that point I was getting frustrated with all the allegations that MSA is markedly different from the Classical. The fact is that I have a fourth-grade education in Arabic, however, when I read the Holly Quran I have little difficulties because most of the words used are familiar to me and if not to me then to my "illiterate" parents.
You seem to be misssing the point Thorri. My whole point was that Palestine (as a state, under occupation yes, but never the less a whole nation) IS recognized by all the arab state as well as many african and asian nations. The only countries that seem to think that palestine must ask for its statehood from the unwilling Israel are those of Europe and my own USA. Now if the peace process does, by some stroke of luck, reach its ultimate goal of "two states for two peoples" then yes the Palestinian nation's land will occupy two seperated pieces of land. But even when that occurs it will be known as PALESTINE and not "Gaza and the Palestine region". See my point :)
I agree with anon, Thorri. We are talking about an official language of a nation or state and not a territory. It doesn't matter if it is split. Cheers -- Svest 23:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up
Please reduce the amount of information in the infobox as soon as possible. It's supposed to be a quick summary, not a complete list. The huge list of language codes is especially pointless. We're supposed to have separate lists for these things, not make infoboxes that are several pages long. The same goes for the "Offiical language of".
Peter Isotalo 22:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree with your point regarding the langauge codes. These belong on Varieties of Arabic. dab (ᛏ) 23:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I have no experience in editing on Wikipedia so would someone mind to stick "Chad" under "Spoken in" in the info box? I'm sorry that I don't know how to properly post now - I'll learn and do it properly when I finish this homework and create an account. 67.149.89.84 20:02, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
82.227.203.184 ( talk · contribs), your "corrections" were not all good. You mixed up ǧ with ġ, and it's fuṣḥā, not fusḥā -- please fix it. Also, your treatment of ta marbouta is inconsistent, once you have aʰ(?), and once ā, please concentrate :) dab (ᛏ) 22:11, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
The Numbers in this article are out of date... "206 million (Ethnologue, native speakers of all dialects 1998 est.); 286 million (population of Arab countries, CIA World Factbook 2004 est.), excluding Arab minorities in other countries and bilingual speakers"
Firstly the "Ethnologue" number is way off (why is it still there?). Plus I just looked up the CIA World Factbook 2005 (latest available edition) and calculated Arabic speakers to be about 293 Million (although that's just a rough estimate). Also the 2006 edition of CIA World Factbook will be out soon so when it comes out someone should get the latest figures and add them here. (as it will likely have increased significantly again). Hibernian
I heared somewhere that Arabic has as only language except prosa, lyric also Quran as a text form, does anybody has profound knowledge in this topic, i would be intested in this topic.
does "Bismillah ir Rhman ir Raheem" mean "In The Name Of God, The Most Merciful, The Most Compassionate"? and more importantly where does it come from? googling tells me that it is a prayer, but from where? can someone give me some background?-- Jaysscholar 17:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
we have an article on basmala. Can you check out Shahadah too, please? I am not sure if the i`rab got mixed up recently. dab (ᛏ) 19:52, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
The link that I added is to an online, collaborative Algerian Arabic dictionary. Please do not remove as spam until you go and actually visit the web site. Thanks you. Ahmed
Hey guys, this probably isn't the best place to ask, but I need help from someone who knows Arabic. I just finished a stub for Persian Iraq to help out with the missing articles project. Apparently the English transliteration for the region's name is 'Iraq 'ajami (or something similar). Ideally I would also like to include the name in its original Arabic script form, but I can't read Arabic or write with Arabic script, so I'm pretty lost. I somehow managed to figure out the Cyrillic version of Zaysan, but I think I'm beyond my element on this one. Anyone want to help me out on this little scavenger hunt? BTW, I'm not sure if 'Iraq 'ajami is actually Arabic or Persian/Farsi. Maybe you guys could tell me. Supposedly it means "foreign Iraq", so maybe that's a clue that it's actually Arabic (since they are calling Persia "foreign"). Really I have no clue. Sorry if I'm totally barking up the wrong tree :) If you have any hints for me, please send them to my talk page. Thanks! Kaldari 23:49, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Iraq al-arab (عراق العرب) and Iraq al-ajam ( Iraq ajami )(عراق العجم) are a different places and The Iraq-Iran mountainy border separate them, Iraq al-arab contain the south and middle parts of present Iraq republic and the majority of it's population are arabs but Iraq al-ajam extend from nourth of Ahwas (south-west of Iran) to the middle and central parts of present Iran and the majority of it's population are Persians. The word (ajam or ajami, عجم او أعجمي )is an arabian word mean non-arab person or nations.
Well, this article is beautiful, extensive, detailed, but the Classical Arabic page has been largely ignored. Can some of the contributers from this page help me clean it up?-- ikiroid | ( talk) 20:22, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be mentioned? or at least referred to it bears a lot of words borrowed from arabic. In fact it's name come from the arabic word "Sawahli" which means coastal, which is where it is mainly spoken on the east coast of Africa where there was alot of Arab presence. Zakaria mohyeldin 08:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
I saw that Eritrea was added to the infobox as an Arabic-speaking country and then removed. I'm not sure what the threshold for inclusion is, but Arabic is an official language, the first language of the Rashaida and a widely spoken second language among others. — Gareth Hughes 22:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
"traditionally Christian villages in rural areas of the Levant render the sound as [k]": I always understood this was specifically typical of rural Palestinian Arabic, irrespective of creed; I believe I've met Muslim Palestinians who pronounce it as k, and surely such a pronounciation would be unheard of in Lebanon? - Mustafaa 01:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Pronounce what as K?-- 72.38.211.144 ( talk) 17:15, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
It says in the Arab world article that it has "a combined population of 323 million people". This article says there are only 206 million speakers of Arabic. That doesn't make sense, wouldn't the majority of the people in Arabic nations speak it so isn't the 206 million figure too small by about 100 million?-- Fox Mccloud 00:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Country Pop Arab Arab pop Mauri 3.2 0.8 2.56 Morocco 33.2 0.7 23.24 Algeria 32.9 0.77 25.333 Tunisia 10.1 0.99 9.999 Libya 5.9 0.92 5.428 Egypt 78.9 0.98 77.322 Israel 6.3 0.2 1.26 Palestine 3.8 0.99 3.762 Lebanon 3.9 0.98 3.822 Syria 18.9 0.95 17.955 Iraq 26.8 0.8 21.44 Kuwait 2.4 1 2.4 sau 27 0.95 25.65 Yemen 21.5 0.99 21.285 Bahrain 0.7 1 0.7 Qatar 0.8 1 0.8 UAE 2.9 0.55 1.595 Oman 3.1 0.8 2.48 Sudan 41.2 0.5 20.6 cha 9.9 0.15 1.485 Iran 1.8
323.5 270.916
You can change it. I'm going to edit the rankings page, since 270 million puts Arabic above Indonesian.-- Fox Mccloud 00:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Fixing a clearly faulty population figure is all very well, but this rather smacks of original research. - Mustafaa 13:13, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it that hard to estimate the numbers of speakers? Doesn't every government provide statistics on what their people speak? I mean it shouldnt be that hard to collect the numbers from countries where Arabic is an official language. It will be a craze, to count in all those few millions living in each of the European countries. 亮HH ( talk) 05:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I would like to learn arabic however I'm not sure which way to go with it. I would buy some CD sets but I don't know which ones to look at. I could talk to someone at the mosque in my area however, I am not Moslem, so I'm not sure how I would be received. I would love to learn. Any suggestions, tips, or advice? I am rather determined to learn.-- Alped'huez 12:48, 19 July 2006 (UTC)Liv
I'm glad to see other westerners wish to learn Arabic, and as much as this discussion is off topic, I too would love to learn the beutiful Arabic language. I'm learning Chinese first though. Anyway, if you want to learn Arabic you should start with some online sites. This article already lists many of them. You can try ColloquialArabic.com [2], the Arabic Wikibook. You can also look at Omniglot which overviews the Arabic script and lists more sites for you to look at. As for CDs, you can go to Ebay. From Ebay, I chose the Pimsleur program, which is helping me learn Chinese now. I haven't tried anything else, though. Hope I helped.-- Fox Mccloud 00:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
-- Tip use program called Auralog they are the experts -- -- 72.38.211.144 ( talk) 17:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
There so few resources for non-religious Arabic learners. Even here, the section about learning comes to short. Should be expanded. 亮HH ( talk) 05:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm using the rather expensive Linguaphone course... I'm still undecided as to how good it is. E.g. they say to form the plural had hu then give an example that uses something else so it's really confusing. For the price I would have expected it to be a bit more detailed, but maybe later on they clarify things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Budz888 ( talk • contribs) 03:49, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
its amazing to see Pakistan not in the list of arabic speaking comm.
other then quranic arabic(classic arabic)
these things make me belive that pakistan also has arabic speaking community. الثاقب (WiseSabre| talk) 11:14, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
Think Mother-tounge y'all Angrynight 06:53, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Egyptian Arabic is not legally co-official in Egypt; rather, there, as in most countries, the law makes no distinction between classical and colloquial Arabic, while only the former is valid for written government documents. Mauritania's official language is Arabic; Hassaniya is officially a national language. Nor does Arabic (or any other native language) enjoy official status in Mali or Senegal; rather, it is relegated to the rather less meaningful national language category. see http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/afrique/afracc.htm for a detailed overview for each country, usually quoting relevant laws. - Mustafaa 20:20, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm planning on writing some articles for the Arabic Language section. However, I'm in the process of deciding which transcription convention to use. I am well aware of my options for Arabic, but I wanted to get some discussion on the subject before I arbitrarily choose one. While the IPA is wonderful for linguistic publications, I'm not sure of its usefulness for an encyclopedia; to me, it seems a bit too technical. One has to know the linguistic terminology to figure out how to pronounce the word. I don't mean we shouldn't use it at all, I just wondering if a simpler alternative would be better (and would display on the screen without the boxes). Also, I realize that someone (or people) did a lot of work in transcribing in IPA for this section. I certainly do not want to re-do someone else's work, but I want to make the encyclopedia useful for everyone.
Any comments/suggestions are welcome!! (preceding unsigned comment by Carmen1973 ( talk · contribs) 11:30, 15 October 2005)
I've been reading the Arabic Language#Literary and Modern Standard Arabic article and noticed that the editor seems to have used conflicting terminology, although I'm sure that s/he understands the concepts very clearly. However, to a general, English-speaking audience, this may sound very confusing. For example, they use the term "Literary Arabic" alongside with "Modern Standard Arabic." Their description certainly leads one to believe that LA and MSA are one and the same. Shouldn't we adopt one or the other? Taking into account that MSA can be both written and spoken (depending on the occasion), which is more appropriate?
Also, most linguists have termed the language of the Qur'an as Classical Arabic, as opposed to Literary Arabic (or Modern Standard Arabic). I would think that the differences between the two would be stylistic and lexical, due to word coining for modern concepts. So, should we consider MSA "separate" from Classical Arabic, although both may be اللغة العربية الفصحى?
I think it's imperative that we reach a consensus on this so we can minimize confusion on the part of our readers.
I would like to thank whoever wrote this article; they obviously spent a lot of time doing it!!
-- Carmen 03:34, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Why were my edits over-written. Its a fact that when listing the languages of the world by the number of nations that claim them as official or national, then Arabic comes in third after English and French. Also, when talking about Palestine, all the arab countries recognize a Palestinian state under occupation. In the spirit of unbiased, free thinking Palestine should be refered to as Palestine (one and complete), not as Gaza and the "Palestine region". So as not to be accused of dillusion I had left Israel as is when I corrected the mishandling of Palestine. Having said all this I think that this website is very through, I appreciated the last comment on how collequial Yemeni Arabic is very similar to Classical Arabic. Up until that point I was getting frustrated with all the allegations that MSA is markedly different from the Classical. The fact is that I have a fourth-grade education in Arabic, however, when I read the Holly Quran I have little difficulties because most of the words used are familiar to me and if not to me then to my "illiterate" parents.
You seem to be misssing the point Thorri. My whole point was that Palestine (as a state, under occupation yes, but never the less a whole nation) IS recognized by all the arab state as well as many african and asian nations. The only countries that seem to think that palestine must ask for its statehood from the unwilling Israel are those of Europe and my own USA. Now if the peace process does, by some stroke of luck, reach its ultimate goal of "two states for two peoples" then yes the Palestinian nation's land will occupy two seperated pieces of land. But even when that occurs it will be known as PALESTINE and not "Gaza and the Palestine region". See my point :)
I agree with anon, Thorri. We are talking about an official language of a nation or state and not a territory. It doesn't matter if it is split. Cheers -- Svest 23:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up
Please reduce the amount of information in the infobox as soon as possible. It's supposed to be a quick summary, not a complete list. The huge list of language codes is especially pointless. We're supposed to have separate lists for these things, not make infoboxes that are several pages long. The same goes for the "Offiical language of".
Peter Isotalo 22:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree with your point regarding the langauge codes. These belong on Varieties of Arabic. dab (ᛏ) 23:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I have no experience in editing on Wikipedia so would someone mind to stick "Chad" under "Spoken in" in the info box? I'm sorry that I don't know how to properly post now - I'll learn and do it properly when I finish this homework and create an account. 67.149.89.84 20:02, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
82.227.203.184 ( talk · contribs), your "corrections" were not all good. You mixed up ǧ with ġ, and it's fuṣḥā, not fusḥā -- please fix it. Also, your treatment of ta marbouta is inconsistent, once you have aʰ(?), and once ā, please concentrate :) dab (ᛏ) 22:11, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
The Numbers in this article are out of date... "206 million (Ethnologue, native speakers of all dialects 1998 est.); 286 million (population of Arab countries, CIA World Factbook 2004 est.), excluding Arab minorities in other countries and bilingual speakers"
Firstly the "Ethnologue" number is way off (why is it still there?). Plus I just looked up the CIA World Factbook 2005 (latest available edition) and calculated Arabic speakers to be about 293 Million (although that's just a rough estimate). Also the 2006 edition of CIA World Factbook will be out soon so when it comes out someone should get the latest figures and add them here. (as it will likely have increased significantly again). Hibernian
I heared somewhere that Arabic has as only language except prosa, lyric also Quran as a text form, does anybody has profound knowledge in this topic, i would be intested in this topic.
does "Bismillah ir Rhman ir Raheem" mean "In The Name Of God, The Most Merciful, The Most Compassionate"? and more importantly where does it come from? googling tells me that it is a prayer, but from where? can someone give me some background?-- Jaysscholar 17:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
we have an article on basmala. Can you check out Shahadah too, please? I am not sure if the i`rab got mixed up recently. dab (ᛏ) 19:52, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
The link that I added is to an online, collaborative Algerian Arabic dictionary. Please do not remove as spam until you go and actually visit the web site. Thanks you. Ahmed
Hey guys, this probably isn't the best place to ask, but I need help from someone who knows Arabic. I just finished a stub for Persian Iraq to help out with the missing articles project. Apparently the English transliteration for the region's name is 'Iraq 'ajami (or something similar). Ideally I would also like to include the name in its original Arabic script form, but I can't read Arabic or write with Arabic script, so I'm pretty lost. I somehow managed to figure out the Cyrillic version of Zaysan, but I think I'm beyond my element on this one. Anyone want to help me out on this little scavenger hunt? BTW, I'm not sure if 'Iraq 'ajami is actually Arabic or Persian/Farsi. Maybe you guys could tell me. Supposedly it means "foreign Iraq", so maybe that's a clue that it's actually Arabic (since they are calling Persia "foreign"). Really I have no clue. Sorry if I'm totally barking up the wrong tree :) If you have any hints for me, please send them to my talk page. Thanks! Kaldari 23:49, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Iraq al-arab (عراق العرب) and Iraq al-ajam ( Iraq ajami )(عراق العجم) are a different places and The Iraq-Iran mountainy border separate them, Iraq al-arab contain the south and middle parts of present Iraq republic and the majority of it's population are arabs but Iraq al-ajam extend from nourth of Ahwas (south-west of Iran) to the middle and central parts of present Iran and the majority of it's population are Persians. The word (ajam or ajami, عجم او أعجمي )is an arabian word mean non-arab person or nations.
Well, this article is beautiful, extensive, detailed, but the Classical Arabic page has been largely ignored. Can some of the contributers from this page help me clean it up?-- ikiroid | ( talk) 20:22, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be mentioned? or at least referred to it bears a lot of words borrowed from arabic. In fact it's name come from the arabic word "Sawahli" which means coastal, which is where it is mainly spoken on the east coast of Africa where there was alot of Arab presence. Zakaria mohyeldin 08:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
I saw that Eritrea was added to the infobox as an Arabic-speaking country and then removed. I'm not sure what the threshold for inclusion is, but Arabic is an official language, the first language of the Rashaida and a widely spoken second language among others. — Gareth Hughes 22:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
"traditionally Christian villages in rural areas of the Levant render the sound as [k]": I always understood this was specifically typical of rural Palestinian Arabic, irrespective of creed; I believe I've met Muslim Palestinians who pronounce it as k, and surely such a pronounciation would be unheard of in Lebanon? - Mustafaa 01:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Pronounce what as K?-- 72.38.211.144 ( talk) 17:15, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
It says in the Arab world article that it has "a combined population of 323 million people". This article says there are only 206 million speakers of Arabic. That doesn't make sense, wouldn't the majority of the people in Arabic nations speak it so isn't the 206 million figure too small by about 100 million?-- Fox Mccloud 00:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Country Pop Arab Arab pop Mauri 3.2 0.8 2.56 Morocco 33.2 0.7 23.24 Algeria 32.9 0.77 25.333 Tunisia 10.1 0.99 9.999 Libya 5.9 0.92 5.428 Egypt 78.9 0.98 77.322 Israel 6.3 0.2 1.26 Palestine 3.8 0.99 3.762 Lebanon 3.9 0.98 3.822 Syria 18.9 0.95 17.955 Iraq 26.8 0.8 21.44 Kuwait 2.4 1 2.4 sau 27 0.95 25.65 Yemen 21.5 0.99 21.285 Bahrain 0.7 1 0.7 Qatar 0.8 1 0.8 UAE 2.9 0.55 1.595 Oman 3.1 0.8 2.48 Sudan 41.2 0.5 20.6 cha 9.9 0.15 1.485 Iran 1.8
323.5 270.916
You can change it. I'm going to edit the rankings page, since 270 million puts Arabic above Indonesian.-- Fox Mccloud 00:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Fixing a clearly faulty population figure is all very well, but this rather smacks of original research. - Mustafaa 13:13, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it that hard to estimate the numbers of speakers? Doesn't every government provide statistics on what their people speak? I mean it shouldnt be that hard to collect the numbers from countries where Arabic is an official language. It will be a craze, to count in all those few millions living in each of the European countries. 亮HH ( talk) 05:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I would like to learn arabic however I'm not sure which way to go with it. I would buy some CD sets but I don't know which ones to look at. I could talk to someone at the mosque in my area however, I am not Moslem, so I'm not sure how I would be received. I would love to learn. Any suggestions, tips, or advice? I am rather determined to learn.-- Alped'huez 12:48, 19 July 2006 (UTC)Liv
I'm glad to see other westerners wish to learn Arabic, and as much as this discussion is off topic, I too would love to learn the beutiful Arabic language. I'm learning Chinese first though. Anyway, if you want to learn Arabic you should start with some online sites. This article already lists many of them. You can try ColloquialArabic.com [2], the Arabic Wikibook. You can also look at Omniglot which overviews the Arabic script and lists more sites for you to look at. As for CDs, you can go to Ebay. From Ebay, I chose the Pimsleur program, which is helping me learn Chinese now. I haven't tried anything else, though. Hope I helped.-- Fox Mccloud 00:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
-- Tip use program called Auralog they are the experts -- -- 72.38.211.144 ( talk) 17:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
There so few resources for non-religious Arabic learners. Even here, the section about learning comes to short. Should be expanded. 亮HH ( talk) 05:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm using the rather expensive Linguaphone course... I'm still undecided as to how good it is. E.g. they say to form the plural had hu then give an example that uses something else so it's really confusing. For the price I would have expected it to be a bit more detailed, but maybe later on they clarify things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Budz888 ( talk • contribs) 03:49, 5 May 2008 (UTC)