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Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | → | Archive 14 |
Where is the sub section on Kuwait - in other countries impacted I think the protests were somehow impacted by the Jasmine revolution - in the fact that until then stateless people there feared their opressers and din come out to protest. And I guess that section needs to be there. We have every nation except UAE and Qatar (thats justified), so Kuwait has to be there! -- Pranav ( talk) 18:03, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
There have been protests in both Azerbaijan ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/11/us-azerbaijan-protest-idUSTRE72A43I20110311) and Armenia ( http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62983) where anti-government protesters have explicitly linked their protests to protests going on in other states such as Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, etc. Should some info be included about these protests? Should Azerbaijan and Armenia be added to the map? It is arguable whether these countries are MENA countries or not, so... Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 00:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Support - This is one of the reasons to expand the article to the Greater Middle-East.-- Smart30 ( talk) 03:03, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Strong Support - I would support '2010–2011 Greater Middle East protests' as a new title for the page, although strictly speaking, I don't think a change is absolutely necessary in order to include Armenia and Azerbaijan; Turkey has a significant Armenian minority and it's considered part of the Middle East, and Azerbaijan shares a name with provinces of Iran (which also boasts a sizable Azeri minority). Geopolitically, they're closely linked to the rest of the Middle East, and the only reason they're sometimes left out is because there's a popular insistence on identifying every former Soviet socialist republic as such. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 12:35, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Adding Armenia and Azerbaijan to the map for this article seems fine to me.
However, adding prose (text) sections to this MENA article would mean recycling the unending discussion of "which geographically further locations are 'related' to the Tunisia/Egypt revolutions? Where do we put them if the 'relations' are existent but not so strong (well RS'd)?" After much wasted energy in AfD's, we finally converged on the "Impact..." article. My suggestion: first of all, add notable developments to:
At the moment these are placed (arbitrarily) in the Asia section there, please discuss on Talk:Impact_of_2010–2011_Middle_East_and_North_Africa_protests arguments for/against shifting to the Europe section. AFAIK either would be acceptable (based on wikipedia regional templates).
Secondly, if the events in one or either become notable enough, then they can split off "Impact..." into their own articles.
Boud ( talk) 15:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
(minor edits changing section to subsection of previous section: Boud ( talk) 22:29, 28 March 2011 (UTC), Boud ( talk) 22:32, 28 March 2011 (UTC))
Well the Yemen uprising is listed down in the list (of the other nations impacted), but yemen has gone really severe.... The fragile peace that Saleh mantains with the northern geurillas might as well be broken, and the nation could plunge into civil war with who knows factions but thats my speculation Anyways things have gotten out of hand ever since the army started backing the protesters http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article1568024.ece http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/8480/World/Region/Dubai-says-bid-foiled-to-ship-,-guns-to-Yemen.aspx
So its way more severe than the other nations - maybe it should be separated out to the top!
Lets have a vote! -- Pranav ( talk) 16:25, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I think some of the discussions in the Name Specific Discussions section could be closed and archived. I would do it, but I lack the know-how. - ArnoldPlaton ( talk) 00:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Hundreds of thousands (350K protesters) on March 20, therefore major not minor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Moroccan_protests
There are several sources provided on its wikipedia page for you to see if need
Please change to orange
Zenithfel ( talk) 23:21, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
In the Info box Listing of causes 'Secterianism' should bespelled 'Sectarianism'. This is unless arabs are really big fans of David Secter. 165.112.60.131 ( talk) 16:05, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. (Closed after this section was archived, to prevent this request from showing up at WP:RM.) Ucucha 02:06, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests →
2010-2011 Arab world protests — We already list all other countries in the "Impact" page, and the protests in Iran (main reason for the name change have died). Rename, and move Iran to the Impact.
The Guardian has a great timeline: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/mar/22/middle-east-protest-interactive-timeline Perhaps it would be useful to the article's editors. Jmj713 ( talk) 16:08, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I am terribly sorry if I am using this improperly, but I by no means know how to use wikipedia for any sort of editing, despite consulting it often. This being said: just a question/suggestion - why has the timeline of protests been interrupted? It stops, I believe, around 20 Feb... In my view it would make sense to keep it updated - maybe it might become indeed very long, but then perhaps a summary type timeline of protests can be kept in this article and a new more extensive article can have a more expanded timeline. Thank you for your time and I apologize for any inconvenience. -hf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.84.166.63 ( talk) 17:34, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Sahrawi people protested and rioted in November of 2010, forcing Moroccan forces to quash the possible rebellion. What evidence is there that points to Western Sahara protests inspiring the Tunisian protests? -- Zulu, King Of The Dwarf People ( talk) 06:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Believe that qualifies Syria to turn blue on the map. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 13:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Where is the image at commons? When I click on it here I get to other articles. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 14:20, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Agree. 140.247.12.151 ( talk) 16:00, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Support. The government has resigned, so Syria should be blue for "governmental changes". Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 21:01, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Consensus reached and change made. Changes still need to be made to the table and article. ZeLonewolf ( talk) 23:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
The current map has West Bank & Gaza as blue, which I'm pretty sure is NOT correct. What should it be? I must have colored it inadvertently while making some other change. ZeLonewolf ( talk) 11:12, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
·I think that it is blue due to this
"Palestinian territories In the Palestinian Territories, Haaretz suggested that an announcement by the Palestinian Authority on 1 February to hold municipal elections in July is in reaction to the anti-government protests in Egypt. On 14 February, the Palestinian Authority's Prime Minister Salam Fayyad and his Cabinet submitted its resignations to President Abbas[271] amid pan-Arab calls for reform. Abbas tasked him with forming a new government after consultations with other factions, institutions and civil society groups.[272] The reshuffle was long demanded by Fayyad and some in Abbas's Fatah faction.[273]"
BTW, IMO i think that it could be better yellow or grey. Protests and terrorism attacks are related to politic of Israel, more than supporting changes in the politic of Palestinian Territories —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.216.157.20 ( talk) 13:03, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Blue should be when the entire government resigns except for the top guy. This is what happened in Jordan and Yemen. Nobody quit in the PA. 68.174.124.18 ( talk) 20:18, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
The related Category:2011 Libyan uprising has been nominated for renaming You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page.
65.93.12.101 ( talk) 11:58, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
I suggest to change the name to "2010–2011 Arab world protests", which will be shorter and have the same meaning. -- MR.HJH ( talk) 15:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
The entire cabinet resigned, but the PM was given a mandate to form a new one. What color does this make it? 68.174.124.218 ( talk) 12:49, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
I have noticed that in the overview map the Golan is portrayed as part of the state of Israel. Although in the world map of the "state of Israel" page it is not regarded as part of the state. Is there a concrete Wikipedia policy regarding the border status of the Golan? As you all know, the Golan Heights were "annexed" to Israel in 1982, though it is still considered a part of Syria by the UN security council members.
Jewish West Jerusalem and the Sea of Galilee are considered by part of the UN to not be part of Israel. Ericl ( talk) 12:20, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Unlike Libya's novice revolutionaries, Ivory Coast's New Forces have territory, uniforms, heavy weapons - and a clear leader [2], BBC Radio [3], NY Times [4] Chicago Tribune [5], and [6] USchick ( talk) 05:10, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved. Consensus that the proposed title is too specific and see andrewa reasoning below. -- rgpk ( comment) 21:24, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests → Revolutions of 2011 — 69.31.51.141 ( talk) 23:40, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
a few weeks ago, there was a mention that a protest was planned in Qatar that may or may not have happened, but now there is no mention of it. This news is very similar to the UAE, who are mentioned. IMHO, if you mention the UAE, you have to mention Qatar.-- 184.77.10.72 ( talk) 18:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Jordan, Algeria, Djibouti, Iran, Iraq should all be changed to minor protests. These countries are in no way comparable to Bahrain Pass a Method talk 23:46, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
As irrelevant I suppose... Hail, oh Hail turkish intervention. Spartacus Marat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.105.53 ( talk) 10:39, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
First of all, sorry about my english. I have thought that it could be interesting changing the color of countries like Yemen, what about changing it, into a "lined" color that combines red (major protests) and blue (governmental changes) and in Jordan and Oman, yellow (minor protests) and blue (governmental changes). It seems that in these countries only are happening governmental changes, but the reality is different.
I have thought in something like this
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_140/1176872571HvtO7w.jpg
Thanks and congratulations for this article!
Why has it a flag again? Has this consensus on use fo 'noflag' template changed and when/where? Alinor ( talk) 15:46, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
In the summary table, the djiboutian protests are listed as minor, yet in the map it's featured as a major protest. So, which one is the correct one? - 79.113.91.8 ( talk) 09:59, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
Because as of now, it seems rather, well, subjective. Perhaps we should say if protests draw X number of people for X number of days within X amount of time, they are considered major protests. It's just that there seems to be no clarification of what is considered major or minor. And what is major or minor depends on the editor. Editor A may think that protests in a certain country are just minor spats, whereas Editor B may see them as demonstrations of historic proportions. So are there some guidelines on what makes a protest major or minor? Lilly ( talk) 01:45, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
A collage of photos from several countries would be good, not just Cairo.-- 93.137.14.197 ( talk) 14:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Here are some sources:
Hope it helps -- The Egyptian Liberal ( talk) 08:23, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932011_Middle_East_and_North_Africa_protests#Overview
I think it would be better to split the "Government Change" colour into two different colours. My reason for this is because Jordan and Oman didn't experience much unrest and violence before they changed the government. Syria and Yemen have experienced very violent unrest. 99.231.200.55 ( talk) 11:51, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
1) War
2) Violent major rallies
3) Peaceful major rallies
4) Minor rallies
5) Minor occurrences and failed attempts to instigate (noticeable) unrest (bloggers, immolators)
The table says minor protests, but the map says major. The discrepancy needs to be resolved one way or the other. ZeLonewolf ( talk) 16:48, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
where has the section gone. As a reader I want to see it again.-- 78.3.221.157 ( talk) 10:18, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
News reports tend to be very unclear but there is some sore sort of protests/uprising/revolt/revolution going on in Burkina Faso right now, including a curfew on Ouagadougou and some reports that Blaise Compaore has fled. Is this part of the wave of protests that we've seen here or is it seperate? How about an article, 2011 Burkina Faso uprising, based on the French version or its translation here Metaknowledge ( talk) 14:35, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
I read the article and believe it violates WP:NPOV as it seems to portray the subject in a positive light. Will someone else check this out? KeeperOfTheInformation ( talk) 20:44, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
It's a fair question, but for the most part the article seems factual to me. Even though one senses that the author(s) are favourable toward the opposition, they don't express an ideology for either side; and for the most part they seem to have written the article as an historical chronology. If you have some feeling that the facts are incorrect, please give specifics, but otherwise my feeling is that the article is balanced. Beecher70 ( talk) 16:13, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
where has the section gone. As a reader I want to see it again.-- 78.3.219.109 ( talk) 14:57, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Gaza had its March 15 protests against Hamas and the West Bank had protests in various cities against the occupation. 131.111.185.1 ( talk) 08:32, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
I was wondering where I could find a simple map to help wrap my head around the movements developing in the Arab world, and I knew I could count on Wikipedia's contributors to present this information in an informative, comprehensive way. The map and table featured in this article are great. Thank you! 99.35.43.157 ( talk) 20:17, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13178887
Just if you didn't know~, 68.58.76.65 ( talk) 20:56, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
Saleh says he's going to leave within 30 days, should we change the color of Yemen on the map?-- Dudeman5685 ( talk) 22:50, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
Syria has got to be considered "Major Protests" instead of "Government Changes" --> they've just killed enormous numbers of people in Homs and the whole anti al-Assad segment of the country is mobilizing. 130.64.139.141 ( talk) 21:05, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm the main editor for the 2011 Iranian protests article and I just wanted to get some other opinions on whether information on the Iranian attack on Camp Ashraf, which killed more than 25 people, should be included. The people in the camp are considered to be the real opposition to Iran, being a part of the People's Mujahedin of Iran. I think this attack and information about it in the news should be included in the article, because it does have a direct relation to it, since the Mujahedin started up their attempts to no longer be considered a terrorist organization by the EU (which was granted) after the protests began in Iran. They are known to be firm backers of the protests and are likely to have an active involvement in it. However, if included, should the deaths from this attack also be included in the calculations in the lede box and in the deaths section? Silver seren C 17:59, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Hate to sound like a broken record here, but there's WP:RS backing me up this time: Azerbaijan should be included in this article. Over 400 people have been arrested, and the protests are gathering some strength. What's more, prosecutor-general made a reference to the revolutionary wave in vowing a crackdown, and news media has directly related the events to the MENA protests. International Business Times and Kester Kenn Klomegah] for your consideration. I know the classification of Azerbaijan geographically is somewhat disputed, but it's worth noting that the Greater Middle East article includes it, and that Mauritania, Djibouti, and Somalia are not uniformly considered to be in North Africa, yet this article (and map) refers to them. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 06:32, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
Not that it's a direct comparison by any means, but similar events were happening prior to and during World War II, which later were all tied together (such as the civil war in Spain and the war between China and Japan). I think in time historians may well link these events happening now to a single event. Jmj713 ( talk) 14:49, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
It seems the protests in Morocco are heating up... We might want to consider updating the grade of protests in there if this goes on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.104.45.52 ( talk) 21:10, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
I surely agree! Protests in Morocco are approaching. Search the article of protests in Marocco in The Independent newspaper —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.228.183.50 ( talk) 14:51, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Notice that the hundred thousand strong Feb 14th marches in February are now considered "minor" and the dozens of people killed (Fifteen just last week), has been whittled down to three!!!!! Just three. Since I don't want to get into trouble over an edit war to repair this outrage, I'll just mention it here. Clearly, the person claims that the hundreds of thousands of marchers, and most of the sources are either lying or merely "overstated." The Arab protests in the southwest of the country and the Kurdish protests, in which dozens if not hundreds have been killed or injured clearly don't count. Ericl ( talk)
Now that Armenia and Azerbaijan are included, the named should be changed because those countries are not considered Middle East but are in the Greater Middle East. It also makes the name easier because North Africa is also considered to be Greater Middle East. If it doesn't get renamed, then I don't why Armenia and Azerbaijan were added in the first place. TL565 ( talk) 21:21, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus reached. Article will remain at present title. Kudzu1 ( talk) 00:01, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Arab Spring/Archive 8 be
renamed and moved to
2010–2011 North Africa and Western Asia protests.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests → 2010–2011 North Africa and Western Asia protests – In accordance with what appears to be a preferable alternative to the above proposed 2010–2011 Greater Middle East protests, I am submitting this official move request. Protests have clearly spread to Armenia and Azerbaijan as part of this overall wave, with multiple sources cited on this page and on 2011 Armenian protests and 2011 Azerbaijani protests supporting the fact, and although some consider those countries to be Middle Eastern, I find that overall the controversy as to their classification means that it would be more accurate to slightly redefine the scope of the protests to concern the geographic regions of North Africa and Western Asia. This move would also mark a shift away from the Eurocentrism of the usage of "Middle East", helping to orient these protests in noncontroversial geographic regions. In sum, the new title is more inclusive and thus better reflects the reality of the current situation. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 01:32, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
It seems there is no consensus, please someone close the move request. Greyshark09 ( talk) 15:51, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
In the protests we have seen new ethnic groups who were extremely discriminated by the current Turkish goverment participating in the demonstrations! Jews, Armenians, Bosniaks and Laz populations are now being part of demonstrations in Turkey! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.228.183.50 ( talk) 09:08, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
The map has needed an update for a while, but its editor(s) appear to have gone on holiday or something. Anyway, we actually need a slightly bigger map so that parts of Iran, Armenia, and Azerbaijan aren't cut off; Morocco needs to be dark orange; Kuwait needs to be blue; and we seem to have consensus on adding an intermediate status between government changes/major protests and revolution for Syria and Yemen, reflecting that while protesters have not adopted civil warfare tactics, they have taken control of parts of the country and are denying the regime's right to rule. I posted a PNG "mock-up" further up in the page. How can we go about either using that as a stopgap map or making an SVG version of the same? - Kudzu1 ( talk) 22:05, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
The clickable map from before was an excellent addition to the page. You should make your new version of the map clickable as well. Marshie71 ( talk) 04:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
This was the initial title of the article prior to the outbreak of protests in Iran, after which it was broadly agreed that this article's title should no longer be limited to the Arab uprisings. However, the situation in Iran appears to have largely subsided, making its incidence merely part of a global repercussion that has influenced demonstrations in a broad range of countries including China, the United States, and several others. Thus far, the only protests that have resulted in historic consequences are those that have taken place in Arab countries. I feel that generalizing the situation to the entirety of the MENA region gives this article too broad of a scope. Thoughts? Master&Expert ( Talk) 03:54, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Actually Arab ARE the overwhelming majority in the Middle East and North Africa. The Copts and Tunisian Jews ARE Arabs, being an Arab is a national identity not an ethnicity.
Completely unfounded claim and off the point. Copts' native language is Arabic, whether they were "forced" to speak it or not 1500 years ago is completely irrelevant.
Strong Support As an Arab, it saddens me to see Iran lumped with us just because they are the only non-Arab country in the MENA region. There's something about these protests that is inherently Arab, and as mentioned above, they did spread to countries beyond Iran. I go on Facebook groups about these revolutions, and there you meet a mix of Arabs from all backgrounds whether it's about Tunisia or Egypt or Libya or Yemen or Syria or Bahrain or Saudi Arabia. Furthermore, Iranian protests date back to 2009 and have just been given new inspiration by their neighbours' revolts. It also appears that Iranian Arabs are also trying to take advantage of this wave and jump on the bandwagon, with as little success as Shiites in Saudi Arabia, if not less. At any rate, I may be being a little too nationalist here, but even the media is referring to this as an Arab phenomenon. UltimateDarkloid ( talk) 23:04, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Support We can seperate Arab World Protests and Iranian Protests if this move is accepted. Kavas ( talk) 14:39, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Oppose My concern is practical. Casual researchers who are interested in better understanding the conflicts and their relationships with each other, and who are not familiar with the nuances of Arab vs non-Arab, etc., need to have the broadest sense of the activities in the middle east. Iranian protests are significant, they are related to the other protests the region, and therefore we do a disservice by not including them. The page is intended to educate, and the context is the education about specific events, not about the distinctions between various ethnic groups. Beecher70 ( talk) 15:49, 17 April 2011 (UTC)( talk) 11:45, 17 April 2011 (UTC).
One Issue I would like share you friends,that we also claim that many Iranian people are of Arab origin. In fact one key revolution in Iran is that of AHWAZ or AHVAZ (Arabic term: احواز). Even though many of them are Shiia not Sunni, they are looking to separate back from Iran. -- 196.1.70.203 ( talk) 10:42, 20 April 2011 (UTC)(Abu Ahmad).-- Nizarsh ( talk) 10:48, 20 April 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.1.70.203 ( talk) 10:34, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
173.245.84.140 ( talk) 19:52, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Why not the Great Arab Revolt or Second Arab Revolt to connect it with similar protests during the days of the Ottoman Empire. That too signaled a paradigm shift.
Revolutionary-STRONG Support! Oh, C'mon! Check all the 22 countries that encompass the "Arab World", arabs consist mostly >95% of the population. I believe it's the right thing to name. BESIDES, it's shorter and more convenient to refer to. Think of the bandwidth usage you'd spare! XD
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | → | Archive 14 |
Where is the sub section on Kuwait - in other countries impacted I think the protests were somehow impacted by the Jasmine revolution - in the fact that until then stateless people there feared their opressers and din come out to protest. And I guess that section needs to be there. We have every nation except UAE and Qatar (thats justified), so Kuwait has to be there! -- Pranav ( talk) 18:03, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
There have been protests in both Azerbaijan ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/11/us-azerbaijan-protest-idUSTRE72A43I20110311) and Armenia ( http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62983) where anti-government protesters have explicitly linked their protests to protests going on in other states such as Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, etc. Should some info be included about these protests? Should Azerbaijan and Armenia be added to the map? It is arguable whether these countries are MENA countries or not, so... Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 00:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Support - This is one of the reasons to expand the article to the Greater Middle-East.-- Smart30 ( talk) 03:03, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Strong Support - I would support '2010–2011 Greater Middle East protests' as a new title for the page, although strictly speaking, I don't think a change is absolutely necessary in order to include Armenia and Azerbaijan; Turkey has a significant Armenian minority and it's considered part of the Middle East, and Azerbaijan shares a name with provinces of Iran (which also boasts a sizable Azeri minority). Geopolitically, they're closely linked to the rest of the Middle East, and the only reason they're sometimes left out is because there's a popular insistence on identifying every former Soviet socialist republic as such. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 12:35, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Adding Armenia and Azerbaijan to the map for this article seems fine to me.
However, adding prose (text) sections to this MENA article would mean recycling the unending discussion of "which geographically further locations are 'related' to the Tunisia/Egypt revolutions? Where do we put them if the 'relations' are existent but not so strong (well RS'd)?" After much wasted energy in AfD's, we finally converged on the "Impact..." article. My suggestion: first of all, add notable developments to:
At the moment these are placed (arbitrarily) in the Asia section there, please discuss on Talk:Impact_of_2010–2011_Middle_East_and_North_Africa_protests arguments for/against shifting to the Europe section. AFAIK either would be acceptable (based on wikipedia regional templates).
Secondly, if the events in one or either become notable enough, then they can split off "Impact..." into their own articles.
Boud ( talk) 15:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
(minor edits changing section to subsection of previous section: Boud ( talk) 22:29, 28 March 2011 (UTC), Boud ( talk) 22:32, 28 March 2011 (UTC))
Well the Yemen uprising is listed down in the list (of the other nations impacted), but yemen has gone really severe.... The fragile peace that Saleh mantains with the northern geurillas might as well be broken, and the nation could plunge into civil war with who knows factions but thats my speculation Anyways things have gotten out of hand ever since the army started backing the protesters http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article1568024.ece http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/8480/World/Region/Dubai-says-bid-foiled-to-ship-,-guns-to-Yemen.aspx
So its way more severe than the other nations - maybe it should be separated out to the top!
Lets have a vote! -- Pranav ( talk) 16:25, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I think some of the discussions in the Name Specific Discussions section could be closed and archived. I would do it, but I lack the know-how. - ArnoldPlaton ( talk) 00:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Hundreds of thousands (350K protesters) on March 20, therefore major not minor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Moroccan_protests
There are several sources provided on its wikipedia page for you to see if need
Please change to orange
Zenithfel ( talk) 23:21, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
In the Info box Listing of causes 'Secterianism' should bespelled 'Sectarianism'. This is unless arabs are really big fans of David Secter. 165.112.60.131 ( talk) 16:05, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. (Closed after this section was archived, to prevent this request from showing up at WP:RM.) Ucucha 02:06, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests →
2010-2011 Arab world protests — We already list all other countries in the "Impact" page, and the protests in Iran (main reason for the name change have died). Rename, and move Iran to the Impact.
The Guardian has a great timeline: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/mar/22/middle-east-protest-interactive-timeline Perhaps it would be useful to the article's editors. Jmj713 ( talk) 16:08, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I am terribly sorry if I am using this improperly, but I by no means know how to use wikipedia for any sort of editing, despite consulting it often. This being said: just a question/suggestion - why has the timeline of protests been interrupted? It stops, I believe, around 20 Feb... In my view it would make sense to keep it updated - maybe it might become indeed very long, but then perhaps a summary type timeline of protests can be kept in this article and a new more extensive article can have a more expanded timeline. Thank you for your time and I apologize for any inconvenience. -hf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.84.166.63 ( talk) 17:34, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Sahrawi people protested and rioted in November of 2010, forcing Moroccan forces to quash the possible rebellion. What evidence is there that points to Western Sahara protests inspiring the Tunisian protests? -- Zulu, King Of The Dwarf People ( talk) 06:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Believe that qualifies Syria to turn blue on the map. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 13:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Where is the image at commons? When I click on it here I get to other articles. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 14:20, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Agree. 140.247.12.151 ( talk) 16:00, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Support. The government has resigned, so Syria should be blue for "governmental changes". Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 21:01, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Consensus reached and change made. Changes still need to be made to the table and article. ZeLonewolf ( talk) 23:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
The current map has West Bank & Gaza as blue, which I'm pretty sure is NOT correct. What should it be? I must have colored it inadvertently while making some other change. ZeLonewolf ( talk) 11:12, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
·I think that it is blue due to this
"Palestinian territories In the Palestinian Territories, Haaretz suggested that an announcement by the Palestinian Authority on 1 February to hold municipal elections in July is in reaction to the anti-government protests in Egypt. On 14 February, the Palestinian Authority's Prime Minister Salam Fayyad and his Cabinet submitted its resignations to President Abbas[271] amid pan-Arab calls for reform. Abbas tasked him with forming a new government after consultations with other factions, institutions and civil society groups.[272] The reshuffle was long demanded by Fayyad and some in Abbas's Fatah faction.[273]"
BTW, IMO i think that it could be better yellow or grey. Protests and terrorism attacks are related to politic of Israel, more than supporting changes in the politic of Palestinian Territories —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.216.157.20 ( talk) 13:03, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Blue should be when the entire government resigns except for the top guy. This is what happened in Jordan and Yemen. Nobody quit in the PA. 68.174.124.18 ( talk) 20:18, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
The related Category:2011 Libyan uprising has been nominated for renaming You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page.
65.93.12.101 ( talk) 11:58, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
I suggest to change the name to "2010–2011 Arab world protests", which will be shorter and have the same meaning. -- MR.HJH ( talk) 15:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
The entire cabinet resigned, but the PM was given a mandate to form a new one. What color does this make it? 68.174.124.218 ( talk) 12:49, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
I have noticed that in the overview map the Golan is portrayed as part of the state of Israel. Although in the world map of the "state of Israel" page it is not regarded as part of the state. Is there a concrete Wikipedia policy regarding the border status of the Golan? As you all know, the Golan Heights were "annexed" to Israel in 1982, though it is still considered a part of Syria by the UN security council members.
Jewish West Jerusalem and the Sea of Galilee are considered by part of the UN to not be part of Israel. Ericl ( talk) 12:20, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Unlike Libya's novice revolutionaries, Ivory Coast's New Forces have territory, uniforms, heavy weapons - and a clear leader [2], BBC Radio [3], NY Times [4] Chicago Tribune [5], and [6] USchick ( talk) 05:10, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved. Consensus that the proposed title is too specific and see andrewa reasoning below. -- rgpk ( comment) 21:24, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests → Revolutions of 2011 — 69.31.51.141 ( talk) 23:40, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
a few weeks ago, there was a mention that a protest was planned in Qatar that may or may not have happened, but now there is no mention of it. This news is very similar to the UAE, who are mentioned. IMHO, if you mention the UAE, you have to mention Qatar.-- 184.77.10.72 ( talk) 18:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Jordan, Algeria, Djibouti, Iran, Iraq should all be changed to minor protests. These countries are in no way comparable to Bahrain Pass a Method talk 23:46, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
As irrelevant I suppose... Hail, oh Hail turkish intervention. Spartacus Marat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.105.53 ( talk) 10:39, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
First of all, sorry about my english. I have thought that it could be interesting changing the color of countries like Yemen, what about changing it, into a "lined" color that combines red (major protests) and blue (governmental changes) and in Jordan and Oman, yellow (minor protests) and blue (governmental changes). It seems that in these countries only are happening governmental changes, but the reality is different.
I have thought in something like this
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_140/1176872571HvtO7w.jpg
Thanks and congratulations for this article!
Why has it a flag again? Has this consensus on use fo 'noflag' template changed and when/where? Alinor ( talk) 15:46, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
In the summary table, the djiboutian protests are listed as minor, yet in the map it's featured as a major protest. So, which one is the correct one? - 79.113.91.8 ( talk) 09:59, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
Because as of now, it seems rather, well, subjective. Perhaps we should say if protests draw X number of people for X number of days within X amount of time, they are considered major protests. It's just that there seems to be no clarification of what is considered major or minor. And what is major or minor depends on the editor. Editor A may think that protests in a certain country are just minor spats, whereas Editor B may see them as demonstrations of historic proportions. So are there some guidelines on what makes a protest major or minor? Lilly ( talk) 01:45, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
A collage of photos from several countries would be good, not just Cairo.-- 93.137.14.197 ( talk) 14:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Here are some sources:
Hope it helps -- The Egyptian Liberal ( talk) 08:23, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932011_Middle_East_and_North_Africa_protests#Overview
I think it would be better to split the "Government Change" colour into two different colours. My reason for this is because Jordan and Oman didn't experience much unrest and violence before they changed the government. Syria and Yemen have experienced very violent unrest. 99.231.200.55 ( talk) 11:51, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
1) War
2) Violent major rallies
3) Peaceful major rallies
4) Minor rallies
5) Minor occurrences and failed attempts to instigate (noticeable) unrest (bloggers, immolators)
The table says minor protests, but the map says major. The discrepancy needs to be resolved one way or the other. ZeLonewolf ( talk) 16:48, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
where has the section gone. As a reader I want to see it again.-- 78.3.221.157 ( talk) 10:18, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
News reports tend to be very unclear but there is some sore sort of protests/uprising/revolt/revolution going on in Burkina Faso right now, including a curfew on Ouagadougou and some reports that Blaise Compaore has fled. Is this part of the wave of protests that we've seen here or is it seperate? How about an article, 2011 Burkina Faso uprising, based on the French version or its translation here Metaknowledge ( talk) 14:35, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
I read the article and believe it violates WP:NPOV as it seems to portray the subject in a positive light. Will someone else check this out? KeeperOfTheInformation ( talk) 20:44, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
It's a fair question, but for the most part the article seems factual to me. Even though one senses that the author(s) are favourable toward the opposition, they don't express an ideology for either side; and for the most part they seem to have written the article as an historical chronology. If you have some feeling that the facts are incorrect, please give specifics, but otherwise my feeling is that the article is balanced. Beecher70 ( talk) 16:13, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
where has the section gone. As a reader I want to see it again.-- 78.3.219.109 ( talk) 14:57, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Gaza had its March 15 protests against Hamas and the West Bank had protests in various cities against the occupation. 131.111.185.1 ( talk) 08:32, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
I was wondering where I could find a simple map to help wrap my head around the movements developing in the Arab world, and I knew I could count on Wikipedia's contributors to present this information in an informative, comprehensive way. The map and table featured in this article are great. Thank you! 99.35.43.157 ( talk) 20:17, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13178887
Just if you didn't know~, 68.58.76.65 ( talk) 20:56, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
Saleh says he's going to leave within 30 days, should we change the color of Yemen on the map?-- Dudeman5685 ( talk) 22:50, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
Syria has got to be considered "Major Protests" instead of "Government Changes" --> they've just killed enormous numbers of people in Homs and the whole anti al-Assad segment of the country is mobilizing. 130.64.139.141 ( talk) 21:05, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm the main editor for the 2011 Iranian protests article and I just wanted to get some other opinions on whether information on the Iranian attack on Camp Ashraf, which killed more than 25 people, should be included. The people in the camp are considered to be the real opposition to Iran, being a part of the People's Mujahedin of Iran. I think this attack and information about it in the news should be included in the article, because it does have a direct relation to it, since the Mujahedin started up their attempts to no longer be considered a terrorist organization by the EU (which was granted) after the protests began in Iran. They are known to be firm backers of the protests and are likely to have an active involvement in it. However, if included, should the deaths from this attack also be included in the calculations in the lede box and in the deaths section? Silver seren C 17:59, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Hate to sound like a broken record here, but there's WP:RS backing me up this time: Azerbaijan should be included in this article. Over 400 people have been arrested, and the protests are gathering some strength. What's more, prosecutor-general made a reference to the revolutionary wave in vowing a crackdown, and news media has directly related the events to the MENA protests. International Business Times and Kester Kenn Klomegah] for your consideration. I know the classification of Azerbaijan geographically is somewhat disputed, but it's worth noting that the Greater Middle East article includes it, and that Mauritania, Djibouti, and Somalia are not uniformly considered to be in North Africa, yet this article (and map) refers to them. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 06:32, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
Not that it's a direct comparison by any means, but similar events were happening prior to and during World War II, which later were all tied together (such as the civil war in Spain and the war between China and Japan). I think in time historians may well link these events happening now to a single event. Jmj713 ( talk) 14:49, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
It seems the protests in Morocco are heating up... We might want to consider updating the grade of protests in there if this goes on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.104.45.52 ( talk) 21:10, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
I surely agree! Protests in Morocco are approaching. Search the article of protests in Marocco in The Independent newspaper —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.228.183.50 ( talk) 14:51, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Notice that the hundred thousand strong Feb 14th marches in February are now considered "minor" and the dozens of people killed (Fifteen just last week), has been whittled down to three!!!!! Just three. Since I don't want to get into trouble over an edit war to repair this outrage, I'll just mention it here. Clearly, the person claims that the hundreds of thousands of marchers, and most of the sources are either lying or merely "overstated." The Arab protests in the southwest of the country and the Kurdish protests, in which dozens if not hundreds have been killed or injured clearly don't count. Ericl ( talk)
Now that Armenia and Azerbaijan are included, the named should be changed because those countries are not considered Middle East but are in the Greater Middle East. It also makes the name easier because North Africa is also considered to be Greater Middle East. If it doesn't get renamed, then I don't why Armenia and Azerbaijan were added in the first place. TL565 ( talk) 21:21, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus reached. Article will remain at present title. Kudzu1 ( talk) 00:01, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Arab Spring/Archive 8 be
renamed and moved to
2010–2011 North Africa and Western Asia protests.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests → 2010–2011 North Africa and Western Asia protests – In accordance with what appears to be a preferable alternative to the above proposed 2010–2011 Greater Middle East protests, I am submitting this official move request. Protests have clearly spread to Armenia and Azerbaijan as part of this overall wave, with multiple sources cited on this page and on 2011 Armenian protests and 2011 Azerbaijani protests supporting the fact, and although some consider those countries to be Middle Eastern, I find that overall the controversy as to their classification means that it would be more accurate to slightly redefine the scope of the protests to concern the geographic regions of North Africa and Western Asia. This move would also mark a shift away from the Eurocentrism of the usage of "Middle East", helping to orient these protests in noncontroversial geographic regions. In sum, the new title is more inclusive and thus better reflects the reality of the current situation. - Kudzu1 ( talk) 01:32, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
It seems there is no consensus, please someone close the move request. Greyshark09 ( talk) 15:51, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
In the protests we have seen new ethnic groups who were extremely discriminated by the current Turkish goverment participating in the demonstrations! Jews, Armenians, Bosniaks and Laz populations are now being part of demonstrations in Turkey! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.228.183.50 ( talk) 09:08, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
The map has needed an update for a while, but its editor(s) appear to have gone on holiday or something. Anyway, we actually need a slightly bigger map so that parts of Iran, Armenia, and Azerbaijan aren't cut off; Morocco needs to be dark orange; Kuwait needs to be blue; and we seem to have consensus on adding an intermediate status between government changes/major protests and revolution for Syria and Yemen, reflecting that while protesters have not adopted civil warfare tactics, they have taken control of parts of the country and are denying the regime's right to rule. I posted a PNG "mock-up" further up in the page. How can we go about either using that as a stopgap map or making an SVG version of the same? - Kudzu1 ( talk) 22:05, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
The clickable map from before was an excellent addition to the page. You should make your new version of the map clickable as well. Marshie71 ( talk) 04:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
This was the initial title of the article prior to the outbreak of protests in Iran, after which it was broadly agreed that this article's title should no longer be limited to the Arab uprisings. However, the situation in Iran appears to have largely subsided, making its incidence merely part of a global repercussion that has influenced demonstrations in a broad range of countries including China, the United States, and several others. Thus far, the only protests that have resulted in historic consequences are those that have taken place in Arab countries. I feel that generalizing the situation to the entirety of the MENA region gives this article too broad of a scope. Thoughts? Master&Expert ( Talk) 03:54, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Actually Arab ARE the overwhelming majority in the Middle East and North Africa. The Copts and Tunisian Jews ARE Arabs, being an Arab is a national identity not an ethnicity.
Completely unfounded claim and off the point. Copts' native language is Arabic, whether they were "forced" to speak it or not 1500 years ago is completely irrelevant.
Strong Support As an Arab, it saddens me to see Iran lumped with us just because they are the only non-Arab country in the MENA region. There's something about these protests that is inherently Arab, and as mentioned above, they did spread to countries beyond Iran. I go on Facebook groups about these revolutions, and there you meet a mix of Arabs from all backgrounds whether it's about Tunisia or Egypt or Libya or Yemen or Syria or Bahrain or Saudi Arabia. Furthermore, Iranian protests date back to 2009 and have just been given new inspiration by their neighbours' revolts. It also appears that Iranian Arabs are also trying to take advantage of this wave and jump on the bandwagon, with as little success as Shiites in Saudi Arabia, if not less. At any rate, I may be being a little too nationalist here, but even the media is referring to this as an Arab phenomenon. UltimateDarkloid ( talk) 23:04, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Support We can seperate Arab World Protests and Iranian Protests if this move is accepted. Kavas ( talk) 14:39, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Oppose My concern is practical. Casual researchers who are interested in better understanding the conflicts and their relationships with each other, and who are not familiar with the nuances of Arab vs non-Arab, etc., need to have the broadest sense of the activities in the middle east. Iranian protests are significant, they are related to the other protests the region, and therefore we do a disservice by not including them. The page is intended to educate, and the context is the education about specific events, not about the distinctions between various ethnic groups. Beecher70 ( talk) 15:49, 17 April 2011 (UTC)( talk) 11:45, 17 April 2011 (UTC).
One Issue I would like share you friends,that we also claim that many Iranian people are of Arab origin. In fact one key revolution in Iran is that of AHWAZ or AHVAZ (Arabic term: احواز). Even though many of them are Shiia not Sunni, they are looking to separate back from Iran. -- 196.1.70.203 ( talk) 10:42, 20 April 2011 (UTC)(Abu Ahmad).-- Nizarsh ( talk) 10:48, 20 April 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.1.70.203 ( talk) 10:34, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
173.245.84.140 ( talk) 19:52, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Why not the Great Arab Revolt or Second Arab Revolt to connect it with similar protests during the days of the Ottoman Empire. That too signaled a paradigm shift.
Revolutionary-STRONG Support! Oh, C'mon! Check all the 22 countries that encompass the "Arab World", arabs consist mostly >95% of the population. I believe it's the right thing to name. BESIDES, it's shorter and more convenient to refer to. Think of the bandwidth usage you'd spare! XD