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Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 |
Bahrain is more akin to Major Protests rather than having a catagory on its own. Since, as of this posting, its looking like Assad will rebuff the unrest in Syria, that dark blue should be reserved for that if/when that happens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.30.73.158 ( talk) 04:52, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
>> Tunisia's second revolution >> Some Tunisians still waiting for revolution >> Did Arab uprisings deepen the Sunni-Shia divide? .> Three years later: Was it a revolution? >> GCC: The Arab Spring spoilers >> Whither political Islam? >> The US and the Arab Awakening: Deja vu? ( Lihaas ( talk) 15:18, 17 December 2013 (UTC)).
In the map, Lebanon is labeled orange, but in the table, Lebanon is labeled light blue. Can someone correct this discrepancy? Eharding ( talk) 17:55, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
The presence of two list-defined refs in the reflist but not the article content resulted in some cite-errors. As they're currently not used in the article, I have removed them from the reflist to fix these errors; however, as the edit that removed the context in which these refs were used is fairly recent (about four days ago), I have chosen to list the two removed refs here in case they're needed again at some point.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13417788
(Used in reflist as
<ref name="Palestinians emboldened by Arab Spring">{{cite news|last=Donnison|first=Jon|publisher=BBC News|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13417788|date=16 May 2011|accessdate=2012-02-27|title=Palestinians emboldened by Arab Spring|location=Ramallah}}</ref>)
and
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,IRN,,4f34de412,0.html
(Used in reflist as
<ref name="Iran: Arrest Sweeps Target Arab Minority">{{cite web|author=United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees |url=http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,IRN,,4f34de412,0.html |title=Iran: Arrest Sweeps Target Arab Minority |publisher=UNHCR |accessdate=2012-06-19}}</ref>)
(By the way, this one had the UNHCR listed as author and publisher. It is hosted on Refworld which is part of UNHCR, but the text does in fact come from Human Rights Watch, as made clear above the article)
AddWittyNameHere (
talk)
00:36, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
I removed the template above becuase this page is not too long, if anything it's too short, it lacks information on many key topics, such as the role of other countries (like Iran, Israel, Russia, and the United States), the role of Jihadist militants (like al-Qaeda and Hezbollah), the role of pan-Arab organizations (like the Arab League and the Muslim Brotherhood), the reasons it's only effected some of the Arab states, the wave of instability it's unleased in the Arab world, it's current status, ect. Charles Essie ( talk) 18:28, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
>> Did Arab leftists betray the revolution? ( Lihaas ( talk) 04:06, 18 February 2014 (UTC)).
See this Vice article.
Mr*|
(60nna)
00:41, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
I know that Iran is not part of the Arab world, but the above protests coincided with the Arab Spring protests, and considering Iran's close proximity to the Arab states, as well as their close cultural, historical, and linguistic ties, isn't it safe to say that these events were part of the Arab Spring itself (rather than just the impact of the Arab Spring). Charles Essie ( talk) 02:07, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Thomas Piketty refers to it as the “spring of nations” (that is, the revolutions that broke out across Eu rope that spring)" in his book CAPITAL in the 21st Century p.8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditc ( talk • contribs) 22:12, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
In the section Summary of conflicts by country, it is mentioned that one of the outcomes of protests in Iraq is that the incumbent Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki announcing that he would not run for a third term. However, recent news suggest that Maliki apparently broke the promise and publicly announced his intention to run for a third term [ [1] [2] and has vowed to hang on to power [3]. Therefore, should this "outcome" be removed from the table? Thanks. -- Dps04 ( talk) 13:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
I just redirected an article on this as the name depended on just one source, I have also tagged the section present here as I believe it should be better sourced at least first in it's own section before it is split off. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 19:36, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
In many countries, people dress up as Arab Spring for Halloween. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.185.83.210 ( talk) 03:14, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
the map showing the various countries by colour according to the kind of civil strife that is going on needs to be updated to show Iraq and Libya in the same colour as Syria as they too have descended into civil war (or re-descended in Libya's case). The tables are up to date however the map is not and I don't know how to fix it so if there is anyone can I would be grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parsa1993 ( talk • contribs) 10:48, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Aside from the Civil War in Syria, which is still going on and maybe Bahrain, which no one outside of the Island cares about anymore, it's over. Can we come to a consensus when it ended? There have been lots of things going on in the Arab world, but the Arab Spring isn't one of them!!!!! Ericl ( talk) 15:54, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Events in Iraq should be consider part of the Arab spring. 73.178.220.158 ( talk) 02:30, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't find any recent sources for Arab Spring, but rather "Arab Winter", so i put citation needed tagging for saying the Arab Spring goes on into present. Any source that the Arab Spring is still "ongoing"? GreyShark ( dibra) 20:51, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
There is a closed discussion at Talk:Arab Winter#Merge to Arab spring about merging Arab Winter into this article. Decision was no consensus. — Lentower ( talk) 00:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
The proposer of the above merge has started an Afd to remove Arab Winter. If you wish to take part in that consensus, the Afd discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arab Winter. — Lentower ( talk) 00:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
It's been proposed that Arab Spring concurrent incidents be merged back into this article. If you like to take part in that consensus, the discussion is at Talk:Arab Spring concurrent incidents#Merge. — Lentower ( talk) 00:25, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I invite interested editors in joining the discussion at Talk:Arab_Winter#Arenas_section. We have a dispute there about the section Arab_Winter#Arenas_section which I believe is a violation of WP:OR, but others think otherwise. - Cwobeel (talk) 04:44, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Yemen and Libya should be "civil war"-- MiguelMadeira ( talk) 00:57, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Just noticed that there is Talk:Arab Spring/Archive 13 and Talk:Arab Spring/Archive13 here, can anyone fix the archive bot mechanism? GreyShark ( dibra) 22:30, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The chart about Arab Winter was removed as original research. Now that the proposed target is short, the merger may be reasonable again. George Ho ( talk) 08:20, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Under the section "Overview," in the third paragraph is the following sentence: "Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir announced that he would not seek re-election in 2015,[78] as did Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, whose term was ending in 2014,[79] although there were violent demonstrations demanding his immediate resignation in 2011.[80]"
I just changed the sentence about al-Maliki to show the past tense for his term ending. However, I wonder whether the phrase about the violent demonstrations in 2011 is still significant. Perhaps it would be better to replace it with something like "although he resisted leaving at that time until he was forced out." If the violent demonstrations of 2011 are still significant, perhaps it should be added under the al-Maliki article instead of being in the Arab spring article. Rodmarcia ( talk) 18:22, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
It was already determined here by several editors that Arab Spring has ended. The end of the protests was likely sometime in 2012 or at most 2013, but determining the exact date is a bit tricky. I can analyze the publications of "ongoing Arab Spring" to as late as September 2013 ( JSTOR (June 2013), Todayszaman (April 2013), African Examiner (September 2013)), with all later references being either non-reliable or in a different context. In terms of logic - the latest events were the 2012 Palestinian protests (Autumn 2012) and the Bahrain Tamarod protests in summer 2013 in Bahrain (technically marking the last protests of the Bahraini uprising). GreyShark ( dibra) 22:19, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
The following are some of the changes that have been made as part of this cleanup process:
This all leaves us with the disambig Aftermath of the Bahraini uprising of 2011, which I believe that, with some effort, could be converted into an article with prose that summarizes all the events in the separate timeline articles from April 2011 onward. If there's anything left behind please let me know, or just go for it. Cheers, Fitzcarmalan ( talk) 13:07, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
I have been keeping this up to date with events for years; I would propose a fork in development on that timeline. One 'Arab Spring Timeline' that focuses just on the period we decide constitutes the 'arab spring', and the above lengthier one for an 'aftermath', 'arab winter' or whatever history decides to call this period of intense instability. -- ERAGON ( talk) 20:06, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Much of this is original research, for example "The term "Arab Spring" fell into a complete disuse by late 2013" in the lead. It should be based on what reliable sources says if it has ended and if so when they say it ended.
I don't get the timeline here above. Who have said the Gaza-Israel conflict is related to the Arab Spring? -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 03:32, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
In the section "Summary of conflicts by country", 310,000 is mentioned but that is one of several estimates. Other still put it at around 220,000 or more. These figures is also given at Syrian Civil War and Casualties of the Syrian Civil War. So the UN figure of 220,000 until January should be mentioned too. -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 03:40, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
This article shows Wikipedia hatred against Islam and "Shria Laws". I have objection about this line: The Arab Spring has often been described as a wave of popular uprisings against an oppressive rule ("Intifadas"), which consist of strict religious practices known as Sharia Law Rememger dear "Sharia Law has nothing to do with arab ruler. No one of them followed Shria law if they would follow then things are fine today. As in Shria law everybody is equeal before law and in Shria, and in Shria It is responsibility of a Government to provide its citizens what they need. So, in Arab the rulers do what they want and they have nothing to do with people of their country or Islamic Shria. In Arab People are deprived of their basic rights, and in Shria laws the ruler has responsibility to serve people but in Arab the ruler started to serve themselves. So this is really disgusting statement of Wikipedia that "Strict Shria laws" brought such spring. Does Wikipedia is third class website Or here live ignorant people who have no idea about What is Shria Laws? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.69.11.224 ( talk) 10:01, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Can I suggest that the map needs to be updated? If you compare the Map and the Summary, you will find that some countries dont match. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.127.13.227 ( talk) 16:48, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
And Yemen is arguably in state of civil war now, which isn't reflected in either the table or the map. 208.163.245.159 ( talk) 18:34, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
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To avoid unnecessary changes. — 73.47.37.131 ( talk) 21:32, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
The word discourse means communication or debate. It is used twice in the first paragraph of the intro in a way that seems inconsistent with the definition. I don't even understand what the author meant by "The most radical discourse from Arab Spring into the still ongoing civil wars took place ...." Maybe they meant to use a different word? Anyone know? I think this needs editing to make it more intelligible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doublesuited ( talk • contribs) 20:12, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
This article completely ignores the funding and organization of Arab Spring revolutions by American NGOs and the US State Department. The article presents them as if this arose spontaneously from these countries, which is not at all the case. That is a rather major omission. Cadwallader ( talk) 18:07, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
The questioned wording is the inclusion of American Imperialism under Causes. Personally, I don't see the point, since Imperialism is already a listed cause. GAB Hello! 22:23, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
In the info box, 26 October 2013 is given as the end date (with a "citation needed" tag). The only other mention of this date in the whole article is for the end(?) date for the Sudan protests. At Timeline of the Arab Spring, 26 Ocotber 2013 is not menntioned at all! I think this should change. If the end date of the Arab Spring is a matter of debate, this should be told to the reader rather than giving a definite date without any further explanation.-- VorerstGescheitert ( talk) 11:57, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
The Arab spring is currently ongoing, with 3 states currently still in civil war, or are in uprising. Georgeday868 ( talk) 01:47, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
You need to provide a source that confirms the Arab Spring is ongoing. At the moment, there are more sources confirming it ended long ago. That those wars are ongoing is not an indication the Spring is ongoing, unless there are sources confirming this. In fact, 1 of the 3 states had already been in a war (Iraq), and the current war in another country (Libya) is separate from the war that started and ended during the Spring (during which Gaddafi died). Most sources currently refer to the ongoing events as the Arab Winter, and not Spring. EkoGraf ( talk) 03:40, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
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The section on Syria has a long narrative of several paragraphs setting out many events; it gives sources for the first three paragraphs, then none for the next three. Unless the sources for the latter three were all covered in the first three, I'm inclined to flag the whole latter half of this section as "citation needed" -- Birdbrainscan ( talk) 22:19, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm confused by the inclusion of the subsection titled "Ethnic Scope" in the "Analysis" portion of this article. The information provided here is muddled, the sources cited are dubious, and the whole subsection doesn't really seem to be saying much of anything. This passage seems out of place, especially because it doesn't demonstrate any overarching ethnic trend in Arab Spring protests. Mightn't it be better to drastically shorten it, or to redistribute it so that ethnic information about the protests is included in the subsections on each respective country? Ianmckeachie ( talk) 21:27, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm extremely confused by this section. What, exactly, is its purpose? It seems to be a listing of instances of global social unrest around the time of the Arab Spring, but it doesn't add any information about the Arab Spring itself. Moreover, the causal link between the Arab Spring and some of the events mentioned here (such as Occupy Wall Street) is extremely tenuous. I'd suggest eliminating this section altogether and simply providing a link to the Impact of the Arab Spring page instead. Ianmckeachie ( talk) 21:35, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
This article has very little in the way of analytical social science perspectives on the causes of the Arab Spring. I'd like to bring in a bit more in the way of scholarship (rather than news articles) to help make the "Analysis" section more robust. In particular, there's scholarship regarding the role of authoritarianism in the Middle East, the economic causes of the Arab Spring (including work on Relative Deprivation Theory), the role of social media, and international relations perspectives on Western democracy promotion as it affected the events of 2011. Some of the sources I've found that could prove useful are cited below.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
doi:10.1177/0163443713511893. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ianmckeachie ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Sure, good idea Ian. You should feel free to dive in and do so! "Edit boldly" as they say. You've got lots of good sources to work from. -- Birdbrainscan ( talk) 22:17, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
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Hi folks, just giving you a courtesy note that I removed references from the reflist template that were never used in the article text as they were causing citation errors. I'm currently resolving articles listed at Category:Pages_with_incorrect_ref_formatting. CaptRik ( talk) 18:18, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
A number of social scientists have endeavored to explain the varying outcomes of the Arab Spring revolts in countries like Tunisia and Egypt (where the Arab Spring is generally considered a success), as opposed to countries like Morocco and the monarchies of the Gulf (where authoritarian regimes silenced the movements with minimal compromise) or Syria and Libya (where the result was, at least as is expressed in the social science literature, a complete collapse of social order). Some proposed explanations include:
Obviously, the language here needs to be cleaned up and expanded to be made readable for a general viewership, and all of the relevant sources need to be cited, but I think that this could add some much-needed structure to the "Analysis" section. I'd welcome any feedback. Ianmckeachie ( talk) 23:43, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
Overall, this is a very well organized page and I really enjoyed reading it. I think it covers the most important issues concerning the Arab Spring like the role of social media and why some protests were successful while others were not. I have just made a few suggestions on each section below.
The introduction as a whole is well written and brings up the key facts about the Arab Spring and neatly lays out some of the issues regarding the causes, key features and consequences of the Arab Spring. The only issue I have is with your mention of the impact of social media in the introduction. You cite Keller’s view that the impact of social media as a cause of the protests has been overstated. While you should cite alternate views, I think it is important to first acknowledge in the introduction that social media did have some impact in solving the collective action problem. Later on in the article you do cite statistics about the use of social media that suggest that it played a key role in instigating the protests but the impression I get from the introduction was that it was completely overblown. Perhaps you could state the conventional view that social media did provide a unique opportunity for collective action and then also acknowledge that there is some dispute about the actual effectiveness of social media as opposed to more conventional means of communication.
The section on etymology is very interesting. No additional comments there.
When you talk about causes in the background section, it might be useful to make a distinction between proximate short-term causes and long term causes. For example, you categorize the concentration of wealth, and corruption as catalysts for the protests. However, I would argue that those were more structural, socio economic trends rather that a catalyst. A rise in food prices would be a more appropriate catalyst. At the end of the section, you specify the self-immolation of Mohamed Bouaziz as one of the short term-causes. I think you should clarify whether it was a catalyst for the Tunisian protests or whether it was a catalyst for the Arab Spring as a whole. Did protests in neighboring countries start immediately after the incident or did they begin only after would-be protesters saw how effective the protests in Tunisia were?
Moreover, I think you could talk about the spread of social media as a cause of the protests too. The grievances the citizens in these countries had were always simmering and were borne out of long term economic factors like unequal income and wealth distribution. However, it was the ubiquity of social media arguably that gave them the opportunity to protest by solving the collective action problem. Finally, it would be useful to think about how the short-term events like the rise in food prices, or the self-immolation changed the relative pay offs of expressing voice rather than remaining loyal like citizens of these countries had done previously in the face of widening inequality, widespread corruption and an oppressive state.
The "summary of conflicts by country" section is a very useful section and puts the conflicts in perspective really well. It gives the reader an idea of the scope of the protests as well as the intensity of the violence in each country. You also get an idea of the range of outcomes that protests in each country gave rise too. This is an excellent section and I have nothing to add.
I am not sure whether the ‘Aftermath” section is needed. It is not very well developed and there is only a brief mention of what happened in Yemen after the protests. I think the “disparate outcomes’ section later on in the article deals with the aftermath of the protests in different countries and therefore I would delete this section.
I like your discussion on the ethnic scope of the conflict because it challenges the conventional narrative that these protests were simply an Arab phenomenon. In the section on social media you make an important point that the role of social media must be seen in the context of high unemployment, corruption and wealth inequality that characterized much of these countries. Opportunities to express voice are not a sufficient cause of protests; there must be long standing grievances that motivate the actions of citizens. It is only when grievances are prevalent and opportunities to express to voice exist that protests might be successful. I think this is an important point that should be stressed throughout the article.
When writing about disparate outcomes, it might be useful to have Mahoney’s path dependent framework in mind. For example, why was there an immediate reactive sequence to the new Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt? I think operating within the path dependent framework will help you to explain why the outcomes were so varied. Having said that, you do cover the most important factors that account for the varied outcomes.
Ultimately, I think the key question that most readers would have when reading up on the Arab Spring is why now? Some of these dictators have been power for decades, ruling with an iron grip. Economic stagnation, endemic corruption and inequality have often been a fact of life so why did the protests erupt when they did? I think you have already tackled this question and come up with some answers. It is just something to keep at the back of your mind as you refine the article.
Amannavani ( talk) 03:53, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Very good overview of the topic. The paragraph that mentions Jared Keller being in the introduction overstates the importance of that article. I think that paragraph would work better in the section specifically about social media in the Analysis section. Perhaps more important is to provide a brief summary of the root causes of the Arab Spring and an introduction to the goals of the protestors.
For clarity, I think a section could be added regarding causes and then broken down into subsections regarding the different causes of the Arab Spring. This would make the organization of this section the same as later parts of the article.
Another section regarding this historical context would allow you to more fully explore the events in Tunisia, Egypt, Algeria, and other countries.
I think this section provides a great overview of the major events. I think it deserves a new section name as it does not merely list the events in chronological order but contextualizes what happened.
This section is really great. Very clear. Very concise. Provides an excellent overview of each country.
Perhaps this section could somehow be combined with the Timeline section? I feel that that was a great introduction to the section on major events, but they are very far apart on the page. Perhaps taking the content of the Timeline and moving it here and then adding a brief, chronological summary above?
I am not sure I understand the distinction between major and minor events. Did minor events also take place in the Arab region? If so, why are they not considered part of the Arab Spring?
I think this section could be expanded. In the summary of conflicts by country, there are several major outcomes listed. Perhaps organizing by those different outcomes would be useful. Or is this section simply talking about related event that took place following the Arab Spring? This section needs more clarity.
This section is an excellent overview of social media in the Arab Spring. I think much of it could stand to be migrated to the main article, which is relatively weak by comparison. I am not very connected to social media so I think some clarity on the terminology that you are using would be very helpful. Page vs. group vs. account. You mention a graph that shows an increase in internet usage, is there a way to add an image of the graph or is it restricted due to copy right? The very last sentence might border on making an argument.
My main critique for this section is looking closely at where citations are used so you are not making any new arguments. Specifically in the second paragraph and the beginning of the fourth.
“This meant that, following the overthrow of the existing regime, there was less work to be done in reforming Tunisian institutions than elsewhere, and consequently it was less difficult to transition to and consolidate a democratic system of government.” Rephrasing suggestion: Following ouster of the regime in the wake of the Arab Spring, the countries with with well-established institutions, such as Tunisia, had less work to do in reforming institutions, and consequently it was less difficult to transition to and consolidate a democratic system of government.
Fourth paragraph: This section seems to be repeating some of information in the above section.
Crcarey ( talk) 11:28, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi Ianmckeachie, good job on integrating more social science into this page. Here are some comments and criticisms and suggestions for improvement:
Chrisblattman ( talk) 01:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I think the Social media and the Arab Spring page can be merged into the main page's section on social media. It has some solid information, but there's a lot of overlap between the two. The separate page relatively few references, and the content that's not already on the main page can easily be condensed into a paragraph or two. Ianmckeachie ( talk) 01:45, 4 May 2016 (UTC) -I think that is a good idea.
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Hello,
Reading the article, I looked at the reference cited for Yemens casualties in the chart: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/yemen-says-more-than-2000-killed-in-uprising/2012/03/18/gIQAGOtcLS_story.html
Yemen is cited as having 10000+ casualties, the reference article trumpets 2000+. Is something wrong?
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I am not an expert, so I am taking no action at this time on my own. But I know of no credible source that lays responsibility, or even correlation of Iraq's current war w/Isis onto the Arab Spring. (roots of that conflict are discussed elsewhere) Iraq may have had minor Arab spring-inspired protests but no credible source attributes any effect on government to these.
This means that information stated on this page about Iraq is simply false.
If we cannot arrive at a unified, documented supportable position in a reasonable period (say, 1 week?), recommend remove references to Iraq from this page entirely until we can. Better to say nothing then to spread falsehood. 10+ years on wiki 22:33, 28 November 2016 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvol ( talk • contribs)
Isn't the Arab spring ongoing with both the Syrian and Libyan civil wars? JerrySa1 ( talk) 21:15, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
Christinatoma ( talk) 23:01, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
the Arab Spring did not end in 2012, although it may have stopped spreading in 2012. Many events and reforms set in motion are ongoing. The Libyan gov't created in the Arab Spring is just now, in late 2016, completing the mop-up of ISIS fighters and consolidation of its rule, for example. So in fact we may yet see a second fully (or mostly) democratic state as a direct result of Arab Spring. There are parallels in other countries. To put in context: The eastern European spring (1989-1991) took place in a relatively neat, compact news-friendly period. In North America, it took 12 years (1775 to 1787) for a revolution to establish a stable government. Others were even more drawn out.
Two years is an artificially short window in which to attribute outcomes to deep multi-national socio-political upheavals - it is more suited to 24 hour news cycles in far-away markets than to events on the ground. User:Jvol10+ years on wiki 22:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
how come 2011–12 Saudi Arabian protests is labeled as minor protests(which lasted for 1yr and 24+ people died and more than 100 injuries and arrests) while Iranian Khuzestan Protest is labeled as major protest? 45.116.232.63 ( talk) 00:03, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
Democracy Spring I have been following the Arab Spring from the beginning but I did not know that it is also called the Democratic Spring, even though, aren't naming famous.-- Sarah Canbel ( talk) 08:46, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
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Someone needs to add information about the Western Sahara on the Arab Spring chart,and also, on the Arab Spring paragraph, Oman should be in the major protest section and not the minor and Lebanon needs to be added, I don't see it at all, Lebanon needs to be on the major protest list as well-- Ameet12345 ( talk) 04:40, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
In terms of the heading and lead section, the article does a good job of objectively introducing the movement. For example, relevant location, timelines, parties involved, and other pertinent information are all structurally laid out for an accessible read. I think reordering some of the headings would do the article good. Etymology can be placed further down in the article, for example (before "Causes" section). Under the sub-section, "Pressures from Within", there is a sentence that uses a claim of "widely believed". This term is slightly problematic since there is no tangible reference to a group who "widely believed" the respective information. For the social media section, I think the citations and hyperlinks are properly aligned, making for an informative, practical read. Overall, this is a good piece with a few minor edits to be made. Sonasena1 ( talk) 19:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
This article is very comprehensive, and I honestly couldn't think of very more to add. Some general grammar comments are to remember to put the comma inside the quote when citing a source. I also think for the section about social media, a couple of sentences describing the actual Facebook pages that were created would be helpful, as well as the specific names of the blogs that were mentioned.
Also, in our readings a couple of weeks ago, it was repeatedly mentioned how Arab Springs influenced Occupy Wall Street, so I think it would be good if you all made that connection in this Wikipedia page as well!
An analysis on how Arab Springs impacted the political agendas of today would also be useful! Basically, just seeing how Arab Springs has influenced the current cultural and political climate with a fresh new pair of eyes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elizabeth.guterson ( talk • contribs) 03:16, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
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overall, the article is good but needs some simpler clarification of facts in the earlier sections of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clearychizmar ( talk • contribs) 22:40, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Is each fact referenced with an appropriate, reliable reference? The arab spring has its own very specific timeline yet judging how the revolution has been taking place throughout the middle east, there are patterns in the left and the right Libya. The first paragraph was a general introduction about what happened and it was only until the end of the second paragraph when the reference was listed and it was about ISIS which makes the it an unreliable start to the article, even if the article was a reliable source. Reading furthermore about the resources used about 85% of articles used are posts and news articles, there are few books, or reliable sources of information such as government links, or political science articles. Is the article neutral? Are there any claims that appear heavily biased toward a particular position? The article has waves of opinion that claim that this might be the second spring because there was an arab spring in 1848 but if we really expand on the “arab spring” we can go back mesopotamia and furthermore ever since arabs were together, and then separated and then together again and then separated again. As indicated one of wikipedia authors indicated that “Others, however, have pointed out that there are..” Is any information out of date? Is anything missing that could be added? Being a refugee in this time period, I’m very shocked that none of the authors added the amount of increase of flow of refugees from Syrla, Llibya, and etc to all ehe European countries around and how that impacted the international laws, and border patrol for all those nations. Abdstar19 ( talk) 05:11, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Don't think this is included yet.
There's a bunch of primary sources in Google Scholar too NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 13:01, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
The article should include the external interference (or if it has another name) in the affairs of the Arab countries to implement its agenda by exploiting or organizing these demonstrations, supporting the rebels and establishing militias, Libya and Syria are crystal clear examples of this. -- 62.68.51.218 ( talk) 07:18, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
The current infobox says the international estimate of the death toll is 523,488 – 523,492. However, the table this refers to says 61,000+. There are no references for the higher number, unless the current phase of the Arab Winter is included, with the Syrian and Yemeni civil war death tolls as well. However, this article shouldn't include any of these because the Arab Spring, according to the article, ended in 2012. I am going to change the erroneous statistic, unless someone can find a reference for this, but I doubt over half a million were killed between 2011 and 2012. 2607:FEA8:1DE0:7B4:9D62:4D85:AD95:1CAB ( talk) 07:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Under the "Summary of conflicts by country, the map colours Lebanon as red (Major protest) even though the table below shows it to only have had "Protests and governmental changes" which should be coloured blue. I am not sure how to change the colour myself so hopefully someone else can. -- MrMineHeads ( talk) 20:38, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
2019 Protests in Algeria and Sudan as an extension of Arab Spring:Big text In 2019 two strong waves of protests hit Algeria and Sudan in many common causes and sequences as the 2011 wave resulting in toppling of the heads of the two regimes with resignation of Algerian president Boutaflika and military coup removing Sudanese president AlBashir why not incorporating these two events in the Arab Spring Tobic https://www.france24.com/en/20190606-algeria-sudan-new-chapters-arab-revolt
I think someone should modify the map. Bahrain had major protests. Not minor. 129.127.32.138 ( talk) 07:51, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
The reference for "In other countries, particularly Syria and Libya, the apparent result of Arab Spring protests was a complete societal collapse" [Anderson, Lisa (May 2011). "Demystifying the Arab Spring: Parsing the Differences Between Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya". Foreign Affairs. 90 (3): 2–7.] in the Arab Winter section doesn't seem to support the statement. Syria isn't mentioned at all, and the discussion of Libya doesn't really justify the claim of "societal collapse." It calls Libya a "failed State"…but indicates that that was the case before the Arab Spring. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/libya/2011-04-03/demystifying-arab-spring — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calion ( talk • contribs) 05:03, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
How can an event that lasted 1.96 years ("17 December 2010 – December 2012") have occurred 11 years ago, as the infobox states? Wasn't 1 December 2012 actually 8.81 years ago? The idea of "years ago" for a span of almost two years doesn't make sense to me. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 13:09, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
The bad image has been removed. The other one is better. 49.184.42.101 ( talk) 10:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
@ Bobfrombrockley: do you think that this analysis piece in the NYT would be a suitable replacement for Counterpunch? A quick search also found this piece on the BBC. Neither mention Wikileaks and I don't feel that the article needs to unless other RSs explicitly draw the connection. Best, Wham2001 ( talk) 17:14, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
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That should be chronological, not alphabetical. Tunisia should be the first thing listed IMO. Any objections to modifying the order? nableezy - 02:33, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Why no mention of CIA involvement in this article it seems like a major omission? 2A01:C846:1200:7900:C13:8AAD:D984:3F79 ( talk) 05:43, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 |
Bahrain is more akin to Major Protests rather than having a catagory on its own. Since, as of this posting, its looking like Assad will rebuff the unrest in Syria, that dark blue should be reserved for that if/when that happens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.30.73.158 ( talk) 04:52, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
>> Tunisia's second revolution >> Some Tunisians still waiting for revolution >> Did Arab uprisings deepen the Sunni-Shia divide? .> Three years later: Was it a revolution? >> GCC: The Arab Spring spoilers >> Whither political Islam? >> The US and the Arab Awakening: Deja vu? ( Lihaas ( talk) 15:18, 17 December 2013 (UTC)).
In the map, Lebanon is labeled orange, but in the table, Lebanon is labeled light blue. Can someone correct this discrepancy? Eharding ( talk) 17:55, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
The presence of two list-defined refs in the reflist but not the article content resulted in some cite-errors. As they're currently not used in the article, I have removed them from the reflist to fix these errors; however, as the edit that removed the context in which these refs were used is fairly recent (about four days ago), I have chosen to list the two removed refs here in case they're needed again at some point.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13417788
(Used in reflist as
<ref name="Palestinians emboldened by Arab Spring">{{cite news|last=Donnison|first=Jon|publisher=BBC News|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13417788|date=16 May 2011|accessdate=2012-02-27|title=Palestinians emboldened by Arab Spring|location=Ramallah}}</ref>)
and
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,IRN,,4f34de412,0.html
(Used in reflist as
<ref name="Iran: Arrest Sweeps Target Arab Minority">{{cite web|author=United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees |url=http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,IRN,,4f34de412,0.html |title=Iran: Arrest Sweeps Target Arab Minority |publisher=UNHCR |accessdate=2012-06-19}}</ref>)
(By the way, this one had the UNHCR listed as author and publisher. It is hosted on Refworld which is part of UNHCR, but the text does in fact come from Human Rights Watch, as made clear above the article)
AddWittyNameHere (
talk)
00:36, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
I removed the template above becuase this page is not too long, if anything it's too short, it lacks information on many key topics, such as the role of other countries (like Iran, Israel, Russia, and the United States), the role of Jihadist militants (like al-Qaeda and Hezbollah), the role of pan-Arab organizations (like the Arab League and the Muslim Brotherhood), the reasons it's only effected some of the Arab states, the wave of instability it's unleased in the Arab world, it's current status, ect. Charles Essie ( talk) 18:28, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
>> Did Arab leftists betray the revolution? ( Lihaas ( talk) 04:06, 18 February 2014 (UTC)).
See this Vice article.
Mr*|
(60nna)
00:41, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
I know that Iran is not part of the Arab world, but the above protests coincided with the Arab Spring protests, and considering Iran's close proximity to the Arab states, as well as their close cultural, historical, and linguistic ties, isn't it safe to say that these events were part of the Arab Spring itself (rather than just the impact of the Arab Spring). Charles Essie ( talk) 02:07, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Thomas Piketty refers to it as the “spring of nations” (that is, the revolutions that broke out across Eu rope that spring)" in his book CAPITAL in the 21st Century p.8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditc ( talk • contribs) 22:12, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
In the section Summary of conflicts by country, it is mentioned that one of the outcomes of protests in Iraq is that the incumbent Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki announcing that he would not run for a third term. However, recent news suggest that Maliki apparently broke the promise and publicly announced his intention to run for a third term [ [1] [2] and has vowed to hang on to power [3]. Therefore, should this "outcome" be removed from the table? Thanks. -- Dps04 ( talk) 13:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
I just redirected an article on this as the name depended on just one source, I have also tagged the section present here as I believe it should be better sourced at least first in it's own section before it is split off. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 19:36, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
In many countries, people dress up as Arab Spring for Halloween. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.185.83.210 ( talk) 03:14, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
the map showing the various countries by colour according to the kind of civil strife that is going on needs to be updated to show Iraq and Libya in the same colour as Syria as they too have descended into civil war (or re-descended in Libya's case). The tables are up to date however the map is not and I don't know how to fix it so if there is anyone can I would be grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parsa1993 ( talk • contribs) 10:48, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Aside from the Civil War in Syria, which is still going on and maybe Bahrain, which no one outside of the Island cares about anymore, it's over. Can we come to a consensus when it ended? There have been lots of things going on in the Arab world, but the Arab Spring isn't one of them!!!!! Ericl ( talk) 15:54, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Events in Iraq should be consider part of the Arab spring. 73.178.220.158 ( talk) 02:30, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't find any recent sources for Arab Spring, but rather "Arab Winter", so i put citation needed tagging for saying the Arab Spring goes on into present. Any source that the Arab Spring is still "ongoing"? GreyShark ( dibra) 20:51, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
There is a closed discussion at Talk:Arab Winter#Merge to Arab spring about merging Arab Winter into this article. Decision was no consensus. — Lentower ( talk) 00:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
The proposer of the above merge has started an Afd to remove Arab Winter. If you wish to take part in that consensus, the Afd discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arab Winter. — Lentower ( talk) 00:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
It's been proposed that Arab Spring concurrent incidents be merged back into this article. If you like to take part in that consensus, the discussion is at Talk:Arab Spring concurrent incidents#Merge. — Lentower ( talk) 00:25, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I invite interested editors in joining the discussion at Talk:Arab_Winter#Arenas_section. We have a dispute there about the section Arab_Winter#Arenas_section which I believe is a violation of WP:OR, but others think otherwise. - Cwobeel (talk) 04:44, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Yemen and Libya should be "civil war"-- MiguelMadeira ( talk) 00:57, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Just noticed that there is Talk:Arab Spring/Archive 13 and Talk:Arab Spring/Archive13 here, can anyone fix the archive bot mechanism? GreyShark ( dibra) 22:30, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The chart about Arab Winter was removed as original research. Now that the proposed target is short, the merger may be reasonable again. George Ho ( talk) 08:20, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Under the section "Overview," in the third paragraph is the following sentence: "Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir announced that he would not seek re-election in 2015,[78] as did Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, whose term was ending in 2014,[79] although there were violent demonstrations demanding his immediate resignation in 2011.[80]"
I just changed the sentence about al-Maliki to show the past tense for his term ending. However, I wonder whether the phrase about the violent demonstrations in 2011 is still significant. Perhaps it would be better to replace it with something like "although he resisted leaving at that time until he was forced out." If the violent demonstrations of 2011 are still significant, perhaps it should be added under the al-Maliki article instead of being in the Arab spring article. Rodmarcia ( talk) 18:22, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
It was already determined here by several editors that Arab Spring has ended. The end of the protests was likely sometime in 2012 or at most 2013, but determining the exact date is a bit tricky. I can analyze the publications of "ongoing Arab Spring" to as late as September 2013 ( JSTOR (June 2013), Todayszaman (April 2013), African Examiner (September 2013)), with all later references being either non-reliable or in a different context. In terms of logic - the latest events were the 2012 Palestinian protests (Autumn 2012) and the Bahrain Tamarod protests in summer 2013 in Bahrain (technically marking the last protests of the Bahraini uprising). GreyShark ( dibra) 22:19, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
The following are some of the changes that have been made as part of this cleanup process:
This all leaves us with the disambig Aftermath of the Bahraini uprising of 2011, which I believe that, with some effort, could be converted into an article with prose that summarizes all the events in the separate timeline articles from April 2011 onward. If there's anything left behind please let me know, or just go for it. Cheers, Fitzcarmalan ( talk) 13:07, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
I have been keeping this up to date with events for years; I would propose a fork in development on that timeline. One 'Arab Spring Timeline' that focuses just on the period we decide constitutes the 'arab spring', and the above lengthier one for an 'aftermath', 'arab winter' or whatever history decides to call this period of intense instability. -- ERAGON ( talk) 20:06, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Much of this is original research, for example "The term "Arab Spring" fell into a complete disuse by late 2013" in the lead. It should be based on what reliable sources says if it has ended and if so when they say it ended.
I don't get the timeline here above. Who have said the Gaza-Israel conflict is related to the Arab Spring? -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 03:32, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
In the section "Summary of conflicts by country", 310,000 is mentioned but that is one of several estimates. Other still put it at around 220,000 or more. These figures is also given at Syrian Civil War and Casualties of the Syrian Civil War. So the UN figure of 220,000 until January should be mentioned too. -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 03:40, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
This article shows Wikipedia hatred against Islam and "Shria Laws". I have objection about this line: The Arab Spring has often been described as a wave of popular uprisings against an oppressive rule ("Intifadas"), which consist of strict religious practices known as Sharia Law Rememger dear "Sharia Law has nothing to do with arab ruler. No one of them followed Shria law if they would follow then things are fine today. As in Shria law everybody is equeal before law and in Shria, and in Shria It is responsibility of a Government to provide its citizens what they need. So, in Arab the rulers do what they want and they have nothing to do with people of their country or Islamic Shria. In Arab People are deprived of their basic rights, and in Shria laws the ruler has responsibility to serve people but in Arab the ruler started to serve themselves. So this is really disgusting statement of Wikipedia that "Strict Shria laws" brought such spring. Does Wikipedia is third class website Or here live ignorant people who have no idea about What is Shria Laws? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.69.11.224 ( talk) 10:01, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Can I suggest that the map needs to be updated? If you compare the Map and the Summary, you will find that some countries dont match. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.127.13.227 ( talk) 16:48, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
And Yemen is arguably in state of civil war now, which isn't reflected in either the table or the map. 208.163.245.159 ( talk) 18:34, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
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The word discourse means communication or debate. It is used twice in the first paragraph of the intro in a way that seems inconsistent with the definition. I don't even understand what the author meant by "The most radical discourse from Arab Spring into the still ongoing civil wars took place ...." Maybe they meant to use a different word? Anyone know? I think this needs editing to make it more intelligible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doublesuited ( talk • contribs) 20:12, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
This article completely ignores the funding and organization of Arab Spring revolutions by American NGOs and the US State Department. The article presents them as if this arose spontaneously from these countries, which is not at all the case. That is a rather major omission. Cadwallader ( talk) 18:07, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
The questioned wording is the inclusion of American Imperialism under Causes. Personally, I don't see the point, since Imperialism is already a listed cause. GAB Hello! 22:23, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
In the info box, 26 October 2013 is given as the end date (with a "citation needed" tag). The only other mention of this date in the whole article is for the end(?) date for the Sudan protests. At Timeline of the Arab Spring, 26 Ocotber 2013 is not menntioned at all! I think this should change. If the end date of the Arab Spring is a matter of debate, this should be told to the reader rather than giving a definite date without any further explanation.-- VorerstGescheitert ( talk) 11:57, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
The Arab spring is currently ongoing, with 3 states currently still in civil war, or are in uprising. Georgeday868 ( talk) 01:47, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
You need to provide a source that confirms the Arab Spring is ongoing. At the moment, there are more sources confirming it ended long ago. That those wars are ongoing is not an indication the Spring is ongoing, unless there are sources confirming this. In fact, 1 of the 3 states had already been in a war (Iraq), and the current war in another country (Libya) is separate from the war that started and ended during the Spring (during which Gaddafi died). Most sources currently refer to the ongoing events as the Arab Winter, and not Spring. EkoGraf ( talk) 03:40, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
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The section on Syria has a long narrative of several paragraphs setting out many events; it gives sources for the first three paragraphs, then none for the next three. Unless the sources for the latter three were all covered in the first three, I'm inclined to flag the whole latter half of this section as "citation needed" -- Birdbrainscan ( talk) 22:19, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm confused by the inclusion of the subsection titled "Ethnic Scope" in the "Analysis" portion of this article. The information provided here is muddled, the sources cited are dubious, and the whole subsection doesn't really seem to be saying much of anything. This passage seems out of place, especially because it doesn't demonstrate any overarching ethnic trend in Arab Spring protests. Mightn't it be better to drastically shorten it, or to redistribute it so that ethnic information about the protests is included in the subsections on each respective country? Ianmckeachie ( talk) 21:27, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm extremely confused by this section. What, exactly, is its purpose? It seems to be a listing of instances of global social unrest around the time of the Arab Spring, but it doesn't add any information about the Arab Spring itself. Moreover, the causal link between the Arab Spring and some of the events mentioned here (such as Occupy Wall Street) is extremely tenuous. I'd suggest eliminating this section altogether and simply providing a link to the Impact of the Arab Spring page instead. Ianmckeachie ( talk) 21:35, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
This article has very little in the way of analytical social science perspectives on the causes of the Arab Spring. I'd like to bring in a bit more in the way of scholarship (rather than news articles) to help make the "Analysis" section more robust. In particular, there's scholarship regarding the role of authoritarianism in the Middle East, the economic causes of the Arab Spring (including work on Relative Deprivation Theory), the role of social media, and international relations perspectives on Western democracy promotion as it affected the events of 2011. Some of the sources I've found that could prove useful are cited below.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
doi:10.1177/0163443713511893. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ianmckeachie ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Sure, good idea Ian. You should feel free to dive in and do so! "Edit boldly" as they say. You've got lots of good sources to work from. -- Birdbrainscan ( talk) 22:17, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
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Hi folks, just giving you a courtesy note that I removed references from the reflist template that were never used in the article text as they were causing citation errors. I'm currently resolving articles listed at Category:Pages_with_incorrect_ref_formatting. CaptRik ( talk) 18:18, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
A number of social scientists have endeavored to explain the varying outcomes of the Arab Spring revolts in countries like Tunisia and Egypt (where the Arab Spring is generally considered a success), as opposed to countries like Morocco and the monarchies of the Gulf (where authoritarian regimes silenced the movements with minimal compromise) or Syria and Libya (where the result was, at least as is expressed in the social science literature, a complete collapse of social order). Some proposed explanations include:
Obviously, the language here needs to be cleaned up and expanded to be made readable for a general viewership, and all of the relevant sources need to be cited, but I think that this could add some much-needed structure to the "Analysis" section. I'd welcome any feedback. Ianmckeachie ( talk) 23:43, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
Overall, this is a very well organized page and I really enjoyed reading it. I think it covers the most important issues concerning the Arab Spring like the role of social media and why some protests were successful while others were not. I have just made a few suggestions on each section below.
The introduction as a whole is well written and brings up the key facts about the Arab Spring and neatly lays out some of the issues regarding the causes, key features and consequences of the Arab Spring. The only issue I have is with your mention of the impact of social media in the introduction. You cite Keller’s view that the impact of social media as a cause of the protests has been overstated. While you should cite alternate views, I think it is important to first acknowledge in the introduction that social media did have some impact in solving the collective action problem. Later on in the article you do cite statistics about the use of social media that suggest that it played a key role in instigating the protests but the impression I get from the introduction was that it was completely overblown. Perhaps you could state the conventional view that social media did provide a unique opportunity for collective action and then also acknowledge that there is some dispute about the actual effectiveness of social media as opposed to more conventional means of communication.
The section on etymology is very interesting. No additional comments there.
When you talk about causes in the background section, it might be useful to make a distinction between proximate short-term causes and long term causes. For example, you categorize the concentration of wealth, and corruption as catalysts for the protests. However, I would argue that those were more structural, socio economic trends rather that a catalyst. A rise in food prices would be a more appropriate catalyst. At the end of the section, you specify the self-immolation of Mohamed Bouaziz as one of the short term-causes. I think you should clarify whether it was a catalyst for the Tunisian protests or whether it was a catalyst for the Arab Spring as a whole. Did protests in neighboring countries start immediately after the incident or did they begin only after would-be protesters saw how effective the protests in Tunisia were?
Moreover, I think you could talk about the spread of social media as a cause of the protests too. The grievances the citizens in these countries had were always simmering and were borne out of long term economic factors like unequal income and wealth distribution. However, it was the ubiquity of social media arguably that gave them the opportunity to protest by solving the collective action problem. Finally, it would be useful to think about how the short-term events like the rise in food prices, or the self-immolation changed the relative pay offs of expressing voice rather than remaining loyal like citizens of these countries had done previously in the face of widening inequality, widespread corruption and an oppressive state.
The "summary of conflicts by country" section is a very useful section and puts the conflicts in perspective really well. It gives the reader an idea of the scope of the protests as well as the intensity of the violence in each country. You also get an idea of the range of outcomes that protests in each country gave rise too. This is an excellent section and I have nothing to add.
I am not sure whether the ‘Aftermath” section is needed. It is not very well developed and there is only a brief mention of what happened in Yemen after the protests. I think the “disparate outcomes’ section later on in the article deals with the aftermath of the protests in different countries and therefore I would delete this section.
I like your discussion on the ethnic scope of the conflict because it challenges the conventional narrative that these protests were simply an Arab phenomenon. In the section on social media you make an important point that the role of social media must be seen in the context of high unemployment, corruption and wealth inequality that characterized much of these countries. Opportunities to express voice are not a sufficient cause of protests; there must be long standing grievances that motivate the actions of citizens. It is only when grievances are prevalent and opportunities to express to voice exist that protests might be successful. I think this is an important point that should be stressed throughout the article.
When writing about disparate outcomes, it might be useful to have Mahoney’s path dependent framework in mind. For example, why was there an immediate reactive sequence to the new Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt? I think operating within the path dependent framework will help you to explain why the outcomes were so varied. Having said that, you do cover the most important factors that account for the varied outcomes.
Ultimately, I think the key question that most readers would have when reading up on the Arab Spring is why now? Some of these dictators have been power for decades, ruling with an iron grip. Economic stagnation, endemic corruption and inequality have often been a fact of life so why did the protests erupt when they did? I think you have already tackled this question and come up with some answers. It is just something to keep at the back of your mind as you refine the article.
Amannavani ( talk) 03:53, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Very good overview of the topic. The paragraph that mentions Jared Keller being in the introduction overstates the importance of that article. I think that paragraph would work better in the section specifically about social media in the Analysis section. Perhaps more important is to provide a brief summary of the root causes of the Arab Spring and an introduction to the goals of the protestors.
For clarity, I think a section could be added regarding causes and then broken down into subsections regarding the different causes of the Arab Spring. This would make the organization of this section the same as later parts of the article.
Another section regarding this historical context would allow you to more fully explore the events in Tunisia, Egypt, Algeria, and other countries.
I think this section provides a great overview of the major events. I think it deserves a new section name as it does not merely list the events in chronological order but contextualizes what happened.
This section is really great. Very clear. Very concise. Provides an excellent overview of each country.
Perhaps this section could somehow be combined with the Timeline section? I feel that that was a great introduction to the section on major events, but they are very far apart on the page. Perhaps taking the content of the Timeline and moving it here and then adding a brief, chronological summary above?
I am not sure I understand the distinction between major and minor events. Did minor events also take place in the Arab region? If so, why are they not considered part of the Arab Spring?
I think this section could be expanded. In the summary of conflicts by country, there are several major outcomes listed. Perhaps organizing by those different outcomes would be useful. Or is this section simply talking about related event that took place following the Arab Spring? This section needs more clarity.
This section is an excellent overview of social media in the Arab Spring. I think much of it could stand to be migrated to the main article, which is relatively weak by comparison. I am not very connected to social media so I think some clarity on the terminology that you are using would be very helpful. Page vs. group vs. account. You mention a graph that shows an increase in internet usage, is there a way to add an image of the graph or is it restricted due to copy right? The very last sentence might border on making an argument.
My main critique for this section is looking closely at where citations are used so you are not making any new arguments. Specifically in the second paragraph and the beginning of the fourth.
“This meant that, following the overthrow of the existing regime, there was less work to be done in reforming Tunisian institutions than elsewhere, and consequently it was less difficult to transition to and consolidate a democratic system of government.” Rephrasing suggestion: Following ouster of the regime in the wake of the Arab Spring, the countries with with well-established institutions, such as Tunisia, had less work to do in reforming institutions, and consequently it was less difficult to transition to and consolidate a democratic system of government.
Fourth paragraph: This section seems to be repeating some of information in the above section.
Crcarey ( talk) 11:28, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi Ianmckeachie, good job on integrating more social science into this page. Here are some comments and criticisms and suggestions for improvement:
Chrisblattman ( talk) 01:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I think the Social media and the Arab Spring page can be merged into the main page's section on social media. It has some solid information, but there's a lot of overlap between the two. The separate page relatively few references, and the content that's not already on the main page can easily be condensed into a paragraph or two. Ianmckeachie ( talk) 01:45, 4 May 2016 (UTC) -I think that is a good idea.
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Hello,
Reading the article, I looked at the reference cited for Yemens casualties in the chart: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/yemen-says-more-than-2000-killed-in-uprising/2012/03/18/gIQAGOtcLS_story.html
Yemen is cited as having 10000+ casualties, the reference article trumpets 2000+. Is something wrong?
Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.227.129.165 ( talk) 08:19, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
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I am not an expert, so I am taking no action at this time on my own. But I know of no credible source that lays responsibility, or even correlation of Iraq's current war w/Isis onto the Arab Spring. (roots of that conflict are discussed elsewhere) Iraq may have had minor Arab spring-inspired protests but no credible source attributes any effect on government to these.
This means that information stated on this page about Iraq is simply false.
If we cannot arrive at a unified, documented supportable position in a reasonable period (say, 1 week?), recommend remove references to Iraq from this page entirely until we can. Better to say nothing then to spread falsehood. 10+ years on wiki 22:33, 28 November 2016 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvol ( talk • contribs)
Isn't the Arab spring ongoing with both the Syrian and Libyan civil wars? JerrySa1 ( talk) 21:15, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
Christinatoma ( talk) 23:01, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
the Arab Spring did not end in 2012, although it may have stopped spreading in 2012. Many events and reforms set in motion are ongoing. The Libyan gov't created in the Arab Spring is just now, in late 2016, completing the mop-up of ISIS fighters and consolidation of its rule, for example. So in fact we may yet see a second fully (or mostly) democratic state as a direct result of Arab Spring. There are parallels in other countries. To put in context: The eastern European spring (1989-1991) took place in a relatively neat, compact news-friendly period. In North America, it took 12 years (1775 to 1787) for a revolution to establish a stable government. Others were even more drawn out.
Two years is an artificially short window in which to attribute outcomes to deep multi-national socio-political upheavals - it is more suited to 24 hour news cycles in far-away markets than to events on the ground. User:Jvol10+ years on wiki 22:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
how come 2011–12 Saudi Arabian protests is labeled as minor protests(which lasted for 1yr and 24+ people died and more than 100 injuries and arrests) while Iranian Khuzestan Protest is labeled as major protest? 45.116.232.63 ( talk) 00:03, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
Democracy Spring I have been following the Arab Spring from the beginning but I did not know that it is also called the Democratic Spring, even though, aren't naming famous.-- Sarah Canbel ( talk) 08:46, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
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Someone needs to add information about the Western Sahara on the Arab Spring chart,and also, on the Arab Spring paragraph, Oman should be in the major protest section and not the minor and Lebanon needs to be added, I don't see it at all, Lebanon needs to be on the major protest list as well-- Ameet12345 ( talk) 04:40, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
In terms of the heading and lead section, the article does a good job of objectively introducing the movement. For example, relevant location, timelines, parties involved, and other pertinent information are all structurally laid out for an accessible read. I think reordering some of the headings would do the article good. Etymology can be placed further down in the article, for example (before "Causes" section). Under the sub-section, "Pressures from Within", there is a sentence that uses a claim of "widely believed". This term is slightly problematic since there is no tangible reference to a group who "widely believed" the respective information. For the social media section, I think the citations and hyperlinks are properly aligned, making for an informative, practical read. Overall, this is a good piece with a few minor edits to be made. Sonasena1 ( talk) 19:03, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
This article is very comprehensive, and I honestly couldn't think of very more to add. Some general grammar comments are to remember to put the comma inside the quote when citing a source. I also think for the section about social media, a couple of sentences describing the actual Facebook pages that were created would be helpful, as well as the specific names of the blogs that were mentioned.
Also, in our readings a couple of weeks ago, it was repeatedly mentioned how Arab Springs influenced Occupy Wall Street, so I think it would be good if you all made that connection in this Wikipedia page as well!
An analysis on how Arab Springs impacted the political agendas of today would also be useful! Basically, just seeing how Arab Springs has influenced the current cultural and political climate with a fresh new pair of eyes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elizabeth.guterson ( talk • contribs) 03:16, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
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overall, the article is good but needs some simpler clarification of facts in the earlier sections of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clearychizmar ( talk • contribs) 22:40, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Is each fact referenced with an appropriate, reliable reference? The arab spring has its own very specific timeline yet judging how the revolution has been taking place throughout the middle east, there are patterns in the left and the right Libya. The first paragraph was a general introduction about what happened and it was only until the end of the second paragraph when the reference was listed and it was about ISIS which makes the it an unreliable start to the article, even if the article was a reliable source. Reading furthermore about the resources used about 85% of articles used are posts and news articles, there are few books, or reliable sources of information such as government links, or political science articles. Is the article neutral? Are there any claims that appear heavily biased toward a particular position? The article has waves of opinion that claim that this might be the second spring because there was an arab spring in 1848 but if we really expand on the “arab spring” we can go back mesopotamia and furthermore ever since arabs were together, and then separated and then together again and then separated again. As indicated one of wikipedia authors indicated that “Others, however, have pointed out that there are..” Is any information out of date? Is anything missing that could be added? Being a refugee in this time period, I’m very shocked that none of the authors added the amount of increase of flow of refugees from Syrla, Llibya, and etc to all ehe European countries around and how that impacted the international laws, and border patrol for all those nations. Abdstar19 ( talk) 05:11, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Don't think this is included yet.
There's a bunch of primary sources in Google Scholar too NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 13:01, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
The article should include the external interference (or if it has another name) in the affairs of the Arab countries to implement its agenda by exploiting or organizing these demonstrations, supporting the rebels and establishing militias, Libya and Syria are crystal clear examples of this. -- 62.68.51.218 ( talk) 07:18, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
The current infobox says the international estimate of the death toll is 523,488 – 523,492. However, the table this refers to says 61,000+. There are no references for the higher number, unless the current phase of the Arab Winter is included, with the Syrian and Yemeni civil war death tolls as well. However, this article shouldn't include any of these because the Arab Spring, according to the article, ended in 2012. I am going to change the erroneous statistic, unless someone can find a reference for this, but I doubt over half a million were killed between 2011 and 2012. 2607:FEA8:1DE0:7B4:9D62:4D85:AD95:1CAB ( talk) 07:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Under the "Summary of conflicts by country, the map colours Lebanon as red (Major protest) even though the table below shows it to only have had "Protests and governmental changes" which should be coloured blue. I am not sure how to change the colour myself so hopefully someone else can. -- MrMineHeads ( talk) 20:38, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
2019 Protests in Algeria and Sudan as an extension of Arab Spring:Big text In 2019 two strong waves of protests hit Algeria and Sudan in many common causes and sequences as the 2011 wave resulting in toppling of the heads of the two regimes with resignation of Algerian president Boutaflika and military coup removing Sudanese president AlBashir why not incorporating these two events in the Arab Spring Tobic https://www.france24.com/en/20190606-algeria-sudan-new-chapters-arab-revolt
I think someone should modify the map. Bahrain had major protests. Not minor. 129.127.32.138 ( talk) 07:51, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
The reference for "In other countries, particularly Syria and Libya, the apparent result of Arab Spring protests was a complete societal collapse" [Anderson, Lisa (May 2011). "Demystifying the Arab Spring: Parsing the Differences Between Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya". Foreign Affairs. 90 (3): 2–7.] in the Arab Winter section doesn't seem to support the statement. Syria isn't mentioned at all, and the discussion of Libya doesn't really justify the claim of "societal collapse." It calls Libya a "failed State"…but indicates that that was the case before the Arab Spring. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/libya/2011-04-03/demystifying-arab-spring — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calion ( talk • contribs) 05:03, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
How can an event that lasted 1.96 years ("17 December 2010 – December 2012") have occurred 11 years ago, as the infobox states? Wasn't 1 December 2012 actually 8.81 years ago? The idea of "years ago" for a span of almost two years doesn't make sense to me. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 13:09, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
The bad image has been removed. The other one is better. 49.184.42.101 ( talk) 10:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
@ Bobfrombrockley: do you think that this analysis piece in the NYT would be a suitable replacement for Counterpunch? A quick search also found this piece on the BBC. Neither mention Wikileaks and I don't feel that the article needs to unless other RSs explicitly draw the connection. Best, Wham2001 ( talk) 17:14, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
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That should be chronological, not alphabetical. Tunisia should be the first thing listed IMO. Any objections to modifying the order? nableezy - 02:33, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Why no mention of CIA involvement in this article it seems like a major omission? 2A01:C846:1200:7900:C13:8AAD:D984:3F79 ( talk) 05:43, 12 October 2022 (UTC)