Some of these people may be worthy of an article, althoug for new articles, i think that the Junior School is looking the best. Le Barn 08:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I dont think we would make articles on any of these people except maybe for David (Dave) Warner Twenty Years 16:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the following from the article, due to its possible copyright breaches, and also due to the poor nature in which it was written. Before it is reposted, these concerns must be addressed.
Aquinas College School Song | |
We ask you Lord to make us strong To seek the right and spurn the wrong | |
You are the sun, we are the seed You are the life, we are the breed: | |
And some there are have gone before Aquinas' sons who died in war. | |
By Canning Waters still serene In playing fields of mellow green | |
Our prayer of hope to God ascends For priests and brothers, teachers, friends | |
The sweetest sound of bat on ball, The soaring leap, the urgent call, | |
We ask you Lord to make us strong To seek the right and spurn the wrong |
The Aquinas College school song was written by x in y as the need for a song whihc united the school. The song is sung in full at awards nights but, usually only has the first, second and forth verses sung. The song is also sung at every assembly.
[1] - Worth a look
I have started to cut out the first-party references, whilst also replacing them with verifiable third-party references, which is quite hard. We will need alot of help, and this is going to take a long time. Twenty Years 17:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is the alumni section - as at 17-04-2006, i deleted all of the references, because i thought it to be unencyclopedic.
Any leaver of Aquinas College is called an Old Aquinian
I think we should try to get a different picture for the sporting section - the redback is a bit out of place. I propose either; A photo of the Churack Pavillion (like Scotch's page) - but that might be a bit off coz we have so many pictures of buildings OR maybe a picture of the PSA Athletics - which is coming up relatively soon - maybe of the Aquinas college crowds there - possibly as the athletes run past. Twenty Years 08:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I think that the article might need to include information on the schools uniform and am going to post it here.
Aquinas College, like most Australian independent schools, requires students to wear full school uniform at all times. There are currently two school uniforms - a summer and a winter.
In summer, a blue-grey collared short-sleeved shirt is worn with grey shorts, grey knee-length aquinas socks and black shoes. In winter, a blue-grey collared short-sleved shirt is worn, along with house tie, black belt, grey trousers, black socks, black shoes and a black blazer.Year twelve's wear a white short-sleeved shirt in both summer and winter.
In the senior school, Colours are awarded to students who perform an extra-curriculum activity such as making a firsts team or making a school band. Colours are embroided on pocket of the student's blazer, with the relevant year that the award was received embroided below.
On 4th May 2007, the college headmaster Mr. Robert White announced that the college will be introducing a school scarf, which is only to be worn with the college winter uniform.
For the article to maintain its GA status, the logos need detailed fair use rationales. Look to other passed GA/FAs for examples. Let me know on my talk page if you have any questions. -- Nehrams2020 06:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I have adjusted many parts of the article, and am adding them in sections (eg. Lead, history etc.) to make it easier for people to see what I’m doing to the article. Im summary I have; • Changed the style of reference, from the standard format to Cite Book & Cite Web • Added all of the individual page references to the article • Changed the references, so that we don’t have 3 or 4 citation marks next to each other, in those cases they have been merged together (per. FA – Hamersley, WA) • Added the schools colours – in the boxes (per numerous other school articles) • Added the Australian flag next to the location (per. Eton College) • Added information about the fees into the lead (per. Caulfield Grammar School – FFA) • Extended portions of the History section – this is purely on notability • Added information about the schools governance to the Recent Years section of the article. (to keep it up to date) • Merged Academic studies into the lead of “Student Life” – there wasn’t much on academic studies, mainly just information on the scholarships (per. Scotch College, Perth) • Merged Old Aquinians Association into lead of “Student Life” – it wasn’t big enough to support a section on it, and the ToC was getting a tad long. (Per. Automated peer review) • Added “Arts & Music” section to the article – this is just common sense (per. Scotch College) • Added “Uniform” section to the article, the schools uniform is quite notable within Western Australia for the students knee-high socks in summer. Also added a quirky image of a junior class in their old straw hats (funning story behind that). • Added a small list of the schools Rhodes Scholars (all 6 of them) including references. This is located in the Notable Alumni section – might be better placed somewhere else, but I am unsure where. • Removed section entitled “Associated Schools” which was pretty poor. I added a link in the “See Also” section to the only school mentioned in associated schools, which was Aquinas’ sister school – Santa Maria. • Removed “Notes” section – the article explains it quite clearly. • Removed category “Churches In Perth…..” – this belongs on the Aquinas College Chapel page. • Added a few books to the “Further Reading” section – in the Cite Book Format - • Changed a few of the images in the article, which I have added to Commons, all of which are PD-Aust. Also added 2 commons category links to AC, Perth and CBC, Perth in the external links part of the article – there are some quite good images in there.
Just a note if someone tries to add the school song to the article: it is a copyright violation. If you dont believe me, look at page 18 of Massam. It was written in the 90's by Joseph Stokes, a former parent of Aquinas. Twenty Years 14:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikimedia Commons has 2 categories; one for CBC Perth, and another for Aquinas College, Perth. Both have links in the article. Twenty Years 14:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Twenty Years 15:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
First I'll just make a few comments based on a cursory glance. I will follow them with an in depth look at the article, which takes some time.
I will comment on the actual content later. Hope this helps as a starting point. IvoShandor 14:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
imho, the image size was fine before. Undo it if you want, but, I do not think I should be :) Talk to symode09's or How's my driving? 13:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I finally got around to looking at the maps at SRO, and the acreage doesn't make any sense - article says 62ha (153ac), but I get:
(Source: Map F28-4 (503340) and F44-4 (?), translated to Perth 2000:13.16, 14.16, under Cancelled Public Plans)
It would appear from this that the actual area should be 109.16875 acres (44.1790 ha), as although the bushland to the southwest is owned by the Christian Brothers, it does not appear to be part of the college. I was quite surprised to note that no reserve was declared for the college, considering this is usually the *first* thing the government does when setting aside land for special purpose (even privately owned land - on the same map, a Catholic school in Como which has since become a retirement village had been set aside and gazetted). Even adding all of the four above produces a result about 9a (3.64ha) short. Orderinchaos 03:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Twenty Years 13:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Just a couple things I noticed at a glance. Maybe too many sections, maybe not? IvoShandor 21:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I would oppose a merger between CBC and Aquinas. The relationship between the two is not as strong as is being indicated in this article. I would go so far as to say that "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers College" is a load of rubbish.
It is true that Aquinas obtained its initial enrolment from CBC ranks. But Aquinas was not a continuation of CBC, and CBC continued to exist, under that name, for another 24 years after Aquinas was established. CBC eventually became Trinity College; in this case it is a clear continuation of the school under a different name.
If the CBC article is to be merged into anything, it should be the Trinity article, not the Aquinas article. But I don't think that is necessary or desirable.
What this article needs is to be rephrased so that it doesn't claim CBC's history to itself. Aquinas started in 1937; any claim to the contrary is mere vanity.
Hesperian 00:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Where was there a six year gap? Is this explained in the article(s). To clear this in my own mind, the following is the timeline of significant events - correct me if I am wrong...
Assuming the above is correct, the facts speak for themselves: If anything TC has greater rights to claim descendancy (!) from CBC than AC. Using the continuity of school colours and off-hand references to a rename is giving undue weight to interpretations over fact - CBC and AC are two different schools. To say "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers College" is misleading.
You said that AC "took the PSA membership" [in 1937]. Did CBC cease to be a PSA member from that date? Did it not continue to operate as a school (albeit a much smaller one) between 1937 and 1961? Can you support the claim? — Moondyne 09:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
What I want to know is, in 1945, which school was CBC: CBC or Aquinas? Hesperian 10:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
My take on this is that CBC opened up St Patrick's College. St Patricks College was a part of CBC in the sense that it was run by CBC, but it was separate in the sense that it had its own grounds etc. Eventually St Patricks gained its independence from CBC, in the process becoming Aquinas. CBC proper continued on, eventually becoming Trinity. Probably the aspects of CBC that went to Aquinas (colours, medals, PSA membership, etc) were aspects that were more properly associated with St Pat's than CBC proper. If we accept St Pats as the ancestor of Aquinas, then Hallam is entitled to refer to the 100 year history of Aquinas, and so are we. But to refer to "when [Aquinas] was named Christian Brothers' College" remains a load of rubbish. CBC didn't become Aquinas if it continued to be CBC. Hesperian 12:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You have baldly stated that in 1945, Aquinas was CBC, and CBC wasn't CBC. How do you do that with a straight face? CBC cannot have become Aquinas in 1939 if it continued to be CBC for another 24 years. It is ludicrous to suggest otherwise. If you won't accept that, then I must insist upon a source for the claim. What source supports this notion of yours that CBC became Aquinas, and precisely what does it have to say on the matter? Hesperian 13:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
The next time I'm in Battye Library, I must remember to have a look at these two sources:
Hesperian 23:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Also there is
Might be worth a look. Hesperian 23:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
OK, regardless of whether AC was CBC and all of that stuff. The information in the history section regarding CBC is OK to keep? Twenty Years 13:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Is the information in the sporting section OK to keep? Twenty Years 13:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I have tagged the article disputed because of the claim that CBC became Aquinas. As I've said above, this is prima facie false, and therefore requires solid sourcing. I have tagged it totally disputed, because I think this is indicative of a general bias in favour of the school. Hesperian 23:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
TY, re-reading the above, I see you seem to think that I consider CBC to be completely distinct from Aquinas. I do not. But I am certain that the relationship between the two is not simply that of a continuation with name change.
The scenario that is emerging for me is that the CBC split, and, like a divorce where one person takes the house and the other takes the furniture, one half of CBC retained the name and the grounds, while the other retained the sporting records and memorabilia, the schiool colours and the PSA membership. Thus from the point of view of the PSA, the membership was transferred into a different name, and so their name change comment in the minutes is understandable. This would also explain why Massam is happy to include CBC history within the scope of a book on Aquinas, despite the fact that CBC continued on in name and became Trinity. And it would explain why Trinity also identify themselves with the long history of CBC.
All of this is of course just guesswork. But my narrative fits the available facts a hell of a lot better than your name change theory. Now I know guesswork isn't acceptable, but the fact remains that you have a collection of facts and sources that are difficult to reconcile; yet they must be reconciled. Any serious scholar would be intrigued by this mystery, and eager to get to the bottom of it, to find out just what happened in 1937. No serious scholar would be content just to write "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers' College", and leave it at that. Hesperian 00:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I've added some cite tags as there are still a number of facts which are questionable and possibly misleading. I might have misunderstood but it is very confusing to someone who is unfamiliar with any of these schools. The article states in the sports section (without a reference) "when Aquinas was established in 1938, it took with it all of the sporting records of Christian Brothers' College." From this statement I would guess that Aquinas became responsible for the sporting archives of CBC which is a very different matter to being given permission to claim that all the historic CBC sporting records would henceforth be credited to Aquinas (eg, the later claim that "In 1910 and 1942, Aquinas won every PSA Sporting trophy available". The same applies to the CBC alumni. As it is now apparent that CBC and Aquinas are two different schools any claims that CBC alumni should be credited to Aquinas rather than CBC or Trinity must be backed up with suitable references from reliable sources. Dahliarose 12:05, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I notice that me re-adding the image got reverted. I know it is of CBC students, but i think that this historical image is fine, because effectively Aquinas took the sporting element of CBC, in that it took all of the trophies. Thoughts? Twenty Years 12:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
In reply to Dahlia's removal of 1910: "Aquinas took all of the sporting records of CBC", as such Aquinas owns that record. Twenty Years 12:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
TY, guys, I'm quite prepared to believe that Aquinas took the sporting records of CBC. In fact it makes good sense. Once CBC realised that they had outgrown their grounds and had to split, the next question became how to split the student body. Sport was everything to them, so the last thing they were going to do was to split the Rowing First IX down the middle, and end up with two weak crews. Ditto cricket; ditto Rugby. I'm sure they were very quick to decide that all their sporting teams had to stay together, so as to preserve their tradition and position on the PSA rankings. Probably their first instinct was to keep their sportsmen at CBC, but then they realised that the new grounds would have far better sporting facilities. Therefore they would have wanted to transfer all their sportsmen to Aquinas, but it would defeat the purpose if their records, traditions, and PSA membership remained with CBC, which had just been gutted of all its sporting talent. The solution, then, was to apply to the PSA to transfer their PSA membership to Aquinas, and to have that transfer treated as a name change, with all the tradition, records, etc of CBC moving to Aquinas. A little sleight of hand, perhaps, but not unreasonable under the circumstances.
Now, take a deep breath, Twenty Years, take a seat and read on:
Just because the PSA agreed to treat the split as a name change, doesn't mean we have to. As historians looking back at the past, we can acknowledge that this agreement happened, without feeling bound by it ourselves. I maintain that the sporting milestones, achievements and travesties of CBC pre-1938 should be discussed in the CBC article. The Aquinas article need only say:
And then straight into the post-1938 material. Hesperian 05:53, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe this article fulfills WP:WIAFA. Auroranorth ( sign) 11:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Is anyone else aware of the 50 year plan for Aquinas College, I think it should make a very important addition to this article. I have a reference of the 50 year plan, containing "some" good information and very useful diagrams, I shall attempt to upload a photo of it (my scanner is broken) and if Symode09 is still active, I know he will have a copy that he can scan in high resolution. -- Yungur ( talk) 08:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan1.JPG
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan2.JPG
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan3.JPG
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan-map-diagram.JPG --
Yungur (
talk •
contribs) 09:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The following article states that Aquinas College land value is worth in Excess of 1.2 billion dollars (and thats just the land not including facilities eg: the main castle would be worth a lot for look and historical reasons, the ovals would be worth alot for their condition etc). I think that is a good bit of information, I will look for a place to add it in, maybe in the introduction. reference: [2] -- Yungur ( talk) 08:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
hmmmmmmm, I actually agree with his addition, it is common knowledge among the community Talk to symode09's or How's my driving? 04:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
My query is really quite trivial & hardly seems worth messing with a clean talk page. The list of headmasters has Br. J Hann 1975-87. Weren't his initials T.X. rather than J? I seem to recall he was known as 'Tex' for that reason. GlenDillon 16:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Talk:Aquinas College, Perth/Archive 3/GA1
in case it is of any use to the article, I am happy to announce I have found, and uploaded, a colour photograph of the old CBC Perth building. Looking at it in colour is quite interesting, it's a very beautiful building and a crying shame that they demolished it, but it also show how very similar it is in look to the Aquinas College main building (aka: the castle). I have added it here and if anyone feels it should be in the actual article feel free to put it there, but I don't want to just go and change the article without some consensus, I recall when we were originally writing this article there was a lot of nit picking at relevance and cutting back etc.. and I don't want to get into all that again.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Yungur ( talk • contribs) 06:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Aquinas College, Perth's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "AISWA":
Reference named "History":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 11:16, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
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AC05
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).OldBoys
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).ACSH
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Some of these people may be worthy of an article, althoug for new articles, i think that the Junior School is looking the best. Le Barn 08:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I dont think we would make articles on any of these people except maybe for David (Dave) Warner Twenty Years 16:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the following from the article, due to its possible copyright breaches, and also due to the poor nature in which it was written. Before it is reposted, these concerns must be addressed.
Aquinas College School Song | |
We ask you Lord to make us strong To seek the right and spurn the wrong | |
You are the sun, we are the seed You are the life, we are the breed: | |
And some there are have gone before Aquinas' sons who died in war. | |
By Canning Waters still serene In playing fields of mellow green | |
Our prayer of hope to God ascends For priests and brothers, teachers, friends | |
The sweetest sound of bat on ball, The soaring leap, the urgent call, | |
We ask you Lord to make us strong To seek the right and spurn the wrong |
The Aquinas College school song was written by x in y as the need for a song whihc united the school. The song is sung in full at awards nights but, usually only has the first, second and forth verses sung. The song is also sung at every assembly.
[1] - Worth a look
I have started to cut out the first-party references, whilst also replacing them with verifiable third-party references, which is quite hard. We will need alot of help, and this is going to take a long time. Twenty Years 17:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is the alumni section - as at 17-04-2006, i deleted all of the references, because i thought it to be unencyclopedic.
Any leaver of Aquinas College is called an Old Aquinian
I think we should try to get a different picture for the sporting section - the redback is a bit out of place. I propose either; A photo of the Churack Pavillion (like Scotch's page) - but that might be a bit off coz we have so many pictures of buildings OR maybe a picture of the PSA Athletics - which is coming up relatively soon - maybe of the Aquinas college crowds there - possibly as the athletes run past. Twenty Years 08:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I think that the article might need to include information on the schools uniform and am going to post it here.
Aquinas College, like most Australian independent schools, requires students to wear full school uniform at all times. There are currently two school uniforms - a summer and a winter.
In summer, a blue-grey collared short-sleeved shirt is worn with grey shorts, grey knee-length aquinas socks and black shoes. In winter, a blue-grey collared short-sleved shirt is worn, along with house tie, black belt, grey trousers, black socks, black shoes and a black blazer.Year twelve's wear a white short-sleeved shirt in both summer and winter.
In the senior school, Colours are awarded to students who perform an extra-curriculum activity such as making a firsts team or making a school band. Colours are embroided on pocket of the student's blazer, with the relevant year that the award was received embroided below.
On 4th May 2007, the college headmaster Mr. Robert White announced that the college will be introducing a school scarf, which is only to be worn with the college winter uniform.
For the article to maintain its GA status, the logos need detailed fair use rationales. Look to other passed GA/FAs for examples. Let me know on my talk page if you have any questions. -- Nehrams2020 06:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I have adjusted many parts of the article, and am adding them in sections (eg. Lead, history etc.) to make it easier for people to see what I’m doing to the article. Im summary I have; • Changed the style of reference, from the standard format to Cite Book & Cite Web • Added all of the individual page references to the article • Changed the references, so that we don’t have 3 or 4 citation marks next to each other, in those cases they have been merged together (per. FA – Hamersley, WA) • Added the schools colours – in the boxes (per numerous other school articles) • Added the Australian flag next to the location (per. Eton College) • Added information about the fees into the lead (per. Caulfield Grammar School – FFA) • Extended portions of the History section – this is purely on notability • Added information about the schools governance to the Recent Years section of the article. (to keep it up to date) • Merged Academic studies into the lead of “Student Life” – there wasn’t much on academic studies, mainly just information on the scholarships (per. Scotch College, Perth) • Merged Old Aquinians Association into lead of “Student Life” – it wasn’t big enough to support a section on it, and the ToC was getting a tad long. (Per. Automated peer review) • Added “Arts & Music” section to the article – this is just common sense (per. Scotch College) • Added “Uniform” section to the article, the schools uniform is quite notable within Western Australia for the students knee-high socks in summer. Also added a quirky image of a junior class in their old straw hats (funning story behind that). • Added a small list of the schools Rhodes Scholars (all 6 of them) including references. This is located in the Notable Alumni section – might be better placed somewhere else, but I am unsure where. • Removed section entitled “Associated Schools” which was pretty poor. I added a link in the “See Also” section to the only school mentioned in associated schools, which was Aquinas’ sister school – Santa Maria. • Removed “Notes” section – the article explains it quite clearly. • Removed category “Churches In Perth…..” – this belongs on the Aquinas College Chapel page. • Added a few books to the “Further Reading” section – in the Cite Book Format - • Changed a few of the images in the article, which I have added to Commons, all of which are PD-Aust. Also added 2 commons category links to AC, Perth and CBC, Perth in the external links part of the article – there are some quite good images in there.
Just a note if someone tries to add the school song to the article: it is a copyright violation. If you dont believe me, look at page 18 of Massam. It was written in the 90's by Joseph Stokes, a former parent of Aquinas. Twenty Years 14:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikimedia Commons has 2 categories; one for CBC Perth, and another for Aquinas College, Perth. Both have links in the article. Twenty Years 14:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Twenty Years 15:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
First I'll just make a few comments based on a cursory glance. I will follow them with an in depth look at the article, which takes some time.
I will comment on the actual content later. Hope this helps as a starting point. IvoShandor 14:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
imho, the image size was fine before. Undo it if you want, but, I do not think I should be :) Talk to symode09's or How's my driving? 13:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I finally got around to looking at the maps at SRO, and the acreage doesn't make any sense - article says 62ha (153ac), but I get:
(Source: Map F28-4 (503340) and F44-4 (?), translated to Perth 2000:13.16, 14.16, under Cancelled Public Plans)
It would appear from this that the actual area should be 109.16875 acres (44.1790 ha), as although the bushland to the southwest is owned by the Christian Brothers, it does not appear to be part of the college. I was quite surprised to note that no reserve was declared for the college, considering this is usually the *first* thing the government does when setting aside land for special purpose (even privately owned land - on the same map, a Catholic school in Como which has since become a retirement village had been set aside and gazetted). Even adding all of the four above produces a result about 9a (3.64ha) short. Orderinchaos 03:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Twenty Years 13:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Just a couple things I noticed at a glance. Maybe too many sections, maybe not? IvoShandor 21:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I would oppose a merger between CBC and Aquinas. The relationship between the two is not as strong as is being indicated in this article. I would go so far as to say that "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers College" is a load of rubbish.
It is true that Aquinas obtained its initial enrolment from CBC ranks. But Aquinas was not a continuation of CBC, and CBC continued to exist, under that name, for another 24 years after Aquinas was established. CBC eventually became Trinity College; in this case it is a clear continuation of the school under a different name.
If the CBC article is to be merged into anything, it should be the Trinity article, not the Aquinas article. But I don't think that is necessary or desirable.
What this article needs is to be rephrased so that it doesn't claim CBC's history to itself. Aquinas started in 1937; any claim to the contrary is mere vanity.
Hesperian 00:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Where was there a six year gap? Is this explained in the article(s). To clear this in my own mind, the following is the timeline of significant events - correct me if I am wrong...
Assuming the above is correct, the facts speak for themselves: If anything TC has greater rights to claim descendancy (!) from CBC than AC. Using the continuity of school colours and off-hand references to a rename is giving undue weight to interpretations over fact - CBC and AC are two different schools. To say "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers College" is misleading.
You said that AC "took the PSA membership" [in 1937]. Did CBC cease to be a PSA member from that date? Did it not continue to operate as a school (albeit a much smaller one) between 1937 and 1961? Can you support the claim? — Moondyne 09:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
What I want to know is, in 1945, which school was CBC: CBC or Aquinas? Hesperian 10:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
My take on this is that CBC opened up St Patrick's College. St Patricks College was a part of CBC in the sense that it was run by CBC, but it was separate in the sense that it had its own grounds etc. Eventually St Patricks gained its independence from CBC, in the process becoming Aquinas. CBC proper continued on, eventually becoming Trinity. Probably the aspects of CBC that went to Aquinas (colours, medals, PSA membership, etc) were aspects that were more properly associated with St Pat's than CBC proper. If we accept St Pats as the ancestor of Aquinas, then Hallam is entitled to refer to the 100 year history of Aquinas, and so are we. But to refer to "when [Aquinas] was named Christian Brothers' College" remains a load of rubbish. CBC didn't become Aquinas if it continued to be CBC. Hesperian 12:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You have baldly stated that in 1945, Aquinas was CBC, and CBC wasn't CBC. How do you do that with a straight face? CBC cannot have become Aquinas in 1939 if it continued to be CBC for another 24 years. It is ludicrous to suggest otherwise. If you won't accept that, then I must insist upon a source for the claim. What source supports this notion of yours that CBC became Aquinas, and precisely what does it have to say on the matter? Hesperian 13:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
The next time I'm in Battye Library, I must remember to have a look at these two sources:
Hesperian 23:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Also there is
Might be worth a look. Hesperian 23:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
OK, regardless of whether AC was CBC and all of that stuff. The information in the history section regarding CBC is OK to keep? Twenty Years 13:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Is the information in the sporting section OK to keep? Twenty Years 13:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I have tagged the article disputed because of the claim that CBC became Aquinas. As I've said above, this is prima facie false, and therefore requires solid sourcing. I have tagged it totally disputed, because I think this is indicative of a general bias in favour of the school. Hesperian 23:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
TY, re-reading the above, I see you seem to think that I consider CBC to be completely distinct from Aquinas. I do not. But I am certain that the relationship between the two is not simply that of a continuation with name change.
The scenario that is emerging for me is that the CBC split, and, like a divorce where one person takes the house and the other takes the furniture, one half of CBC retained the name and the grounds, while the other retained the sporting records and memorabilia, the schiool colours and the PSA membership. Thus from the point of view of the PSA, the membership was transferred into a different name, and so their name change comment in the minutes is understandable. This would also explain why Massam is happy to include CBC history within the scope of a book on Aquinas, despite the fact that CBC continued on in name and became Trinity. And it would explain why Trinity also identify themselves with the long history of CBC.
All of this is of course just guesswork. But my narrative fits the available facts a hell of a lot better than your name change theory. Now I know guesswork isn't acceptable, but the fact remains that you have a collection of facts and sources that are difficult to reconcile; yet they must be reconciled. Any serious scholar would be intrigued by this mystery, and eager to get to the bottom of it, to find out just what happened in 1937. No serious scholar would be content just to write "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers' College", and leave it at that. Hesperian 00:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I've added some cite tags as there are still a number of facts which are questionable and possibly misleading. I might have misunderstood but it is very confusing to someone who is unfamiliar with any of these schools. The article states in the sports section (without a reference) "when Aquinas was established in 1938, it took with it all of the sporting records of Christian Brothers' College." From this statement I would guess that Aquinas became responsible for the sporting archives of CBC which is a very different matter to being given permission to claim that all the historic CBC sporting records would henceforth be credited to Aquinas (eg, the later claim that "In 1910 and 1942, Aquinas won every PSA Sporting trophy available". The same applies to the CBC alumni. As it is now apparent that CBC and Aquinas are two different schools any claims that CBC alumni should be credited to Aquinas rather than CBC or Trinity must be backed up with suitable references from reliable sources. Dahliarose 12:05, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I notice that me re-adding the image got reverted. I know it is of CBC students, but i think that this historical image is fine, because effectively Aquinas took the sporting element of CBC, in that it took all of the trophies. Thoughts? Twenty Years 12:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
In reply to Dahlia's removal of 1910: "Aquinas took all of the sporting records of CBC", as such Aquinas owns that record. Twenty Years 12:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
TY, guys, I'm quite prepared to believe that Aquinas took the sporting records of CBC. In fact it makes good sense. Once CBC realised that they had outgrown their grounds and had to split, the next question became how to split the student body. Sport was everything to them, so the last thing they were going to do was to split the Rowing First IX down the middle, and end up with two weak crews. Ditto cricket; ditto Rugby. I'm sure they were very quick to decide that all their sporting teams had to stay together, so as to preserve their tradition and position on the PSA rankings. Probably their first instinct was to keep their sportsmen at CBC, but then they realised that the new grounds would have far better sporting facilities. Therefore they would have wanted to transfer all their sportsmen to Aquinas, but it would defeat the purpose if their records, traditions, and PSA membership remained with CBC, which had just been gutted of all its sporting talent. The solution, then, was to apply to the PSA to transfer their PSA membership to Aquinas, and to have that transfer treated as a name change, with all the tradition, records, etc of CBC moving to Aquinas. A little sleight of hand, perhaps, but not unreasonable under the circumstances.
Now, take a deep breath, Twenty Years, take a seat and read on:
Just because the PSA agreed to treat the split as a name change, doesn't mean we have to. As historians looking back at the past, we can acknowledge that this agreement happened, without feeling bound by it ourselves. I maintain that the sporting milestones, achievements and travesties of CBC pre-1938 should be discussed in the CBC article. The Aquinas article need only say:
And then straight into the post-1938 material. Hesperian 05:53, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe this article fulfills WP:WIAFA. Auroranorth ( sign) 11:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Is anyone else aware of the 50 year plan for Aquinas College, I think it should make a very important addition to this article. I have a reference of the 50 year plan, containing "some" good information and very useful diagrams, I shall attempt to upload a photo of it (my scanner is broken) and if Symode09 is still active, I know he will have a copy that he can scan in high resolution. -- Yungur ( talk) 08:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan1.JPG
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan2.JPG
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan3.JPG
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan-map-diagram.JPG --
Yungur (
talk •
contribs) 09:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The following article states that Aquinas College land value is worth in Excess of 1.2 billion dollars (and thats just the land not including facilities eg: the main castle would be worth a lot for look and historical reasons, the ovals would be worth alot for their condition etc). I think that is a good bit of information, I will look for a place to add it in, maybe in the introduction. reference: [2] -- Yungur ( talk) 08:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
hmmmmmmm, I actually agree with his addition, it is common knowledge among the community Talk to symode09's or How's my driving? 04:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
My query is really quite trivial & hardly seems worth messing with a clean talk page. The list of headmasters has Br. J Hann 1975-87. Weren't his initials T.X. rather than J? I seem to recall he was known as 'Tex' for that reason. GlenDillon 16:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Talk:Aquinas College, Perth/Archive 3/GA1
in case it is of any use to the article, I am happy to announce I have found, and uploaded, a colour photograph of the old CBC Perth building. Looking at it in colour is quite interesting, it's a very beautiful building and a crying shame that they demolished it, but it also show how very similar it is in look to the Aquinas College main building (aka: the castle). I have added it here and if anyone feels it should be in the actual article feel free to put it there, but I don't want to just go and change the article without some consensus, I recall when we were originally writing this article there was a lot of nit picking at relevance and cutting back etc.. and I don't want to get into all that again.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Yungur ( talk • contribs) 06:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Aquinas College, Perth's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "AISWA":
Reference named "History":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 11:16, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
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