![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
I had a problem with one of the illustrations here as detailed in the previous section, but a bunch of people have descended on it and removed all of them without discussion. The last says 'one edit is not edit warring and this is the last stable version so per WP:BRD this is the one we go with while talk page discussion commences' but it is obvious that is not so if one looks at the history pager, most of those illustrations have been there and never removed in the last few months at least before today. Perhaps some of these people could say why they have suddenly turned up? And what is the reasoning for removing all illustrations? Dmcq ( talk) 20:46, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Good to see the images are back. I agree with the current criteria of selecting images. How about the summary diagram I put here before? Is such kind of diagram beneficial to the readers while not violating NPOV and RS, or, can it be improved in some way before putting here? Some examples: File:Geological_time_spiral.png, File:Map-of-human-migrations.jpg. Of course these 2 examples are already enjoying scientific support (unlike AAH), but I'd like to demonstrate the advantage of summarizing a complicated idea. Chakazul ( talk) 09:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Specific images that deal with the aquatice ape hypothesis can be included. However, every single image included in this article was original research of the plainest sort. I removed the lot of them. Please find good images for the article. Images of the main proponents, for example. Images relating to human evolution. However, images of sea food, divers, and horses are not appropriate. jps ( talk) 19:59, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
This is not a resolution if there are editors advocating to reinstate original research images. Therefore WP:NORN#Images at Aquatic Ape Hypothesis. jps ( talk) 23:53, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
Incidentally, a pointy violation would be to include the image to the right in the article. Is there any reason not to if we include a picture of a swimming baby? jps ( talk) 23:56, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
I have added images to illustrate this affect as it is entirely supportive of evolutionary pressure applied in a wet environment. Nature Lumos3 ( talk) 21:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
Kyriacos Kareklas, Daniel Nettle and Tom V. Smulders⇓
Given that this removed a major chunk of the article, it should be discussed here first. Pinging Fama Clamosa. -- NeilN talk to me 19:00, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
(I added a flag to the section header to correspond to a tag on the article content) -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:42, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
Suggestion, see above (collapsed as it is very long)
|
---|
Anthropological consensus on human evolution![]() Modern humans, Homo sapiens, developed from earlier forms found as fossils at various locations around the world, seeing an early concentration in East Africa. Other remnants from early humans such as tools, foods, dwellings, etc., have also been detected. Combined, these finds present a partial image of the process, that developed the species Homo sapiens. [1] From the collective work of anthropology, and in later years also genetics, established consensus states, that humans belong in the biological tribe Hominini, this in the family of Hominidae (the great apes), this in the order of primates, this in the class of mammals. Humans are closely related to, in order of closest kinship, the great ape genera chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, and further distant the family of gibbons. Hominini includes the subtribe Australopithecina with the genera Sahelanthropus, Orrorin, Ardipithecus, Paranthropus, Australopithecines; and the subtribe Hominina, encompassing the genus Homo, some of its species being Homo habilis, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, the Neanderthals and modern humans, the latter being the only extant species. [2] There is still some uncertainty about the interrelation between the known Hominin fossils; new finds can still drastically rewrite the human family tree, most recently with Sahelanthropus. Contemporary anthropology estimates, that the direct ancestors of modern humans split from a common ancestor to chimpanzees somewhere between 4 and 8 million years ago in Africa; the fossil ape Sahelanthropus tchadensis which lived some 7 million years ago in Chad is considered the earliest possible homininin. [3] Since the breakthrough of Darwin and Wallace's theory of evolution in the 19th century, it has been heavily debated why humans have features that distinguish them from their nearest evolutionary relatives; most notably by being near-furless, employing upright bipedal stance on their hind limbs, and having the perhaps most complex brain in the animal kingdom. A wide range of difficult to corroborate hypotheses have been presented as to the evolutionary background of the unique features of modern humans; for human bipedalism e.g. altered carrying behavior, improved energy efficiency, improved thermal regulation, altered social behavior and increased dominance behavior. [4] The human split from the lineage of the chimpanzees is linked to the geological formation of the East African mountain range Great Rift Valley that extends from Djibouti to Mozambique. In this region are found many of the key fossils of the earliest hominins, leaving it to be considered the cradle of humanity. The most widely considered hypothesis is that woodland dwelling, brachiating hominoids, specifically on the eastern side of the mountain range, gradually lost their habitat to more open areas, for instance grasslands, and that this and other changes forced these hominoids to develop the shapes, that gradually resulted in modern humans. [5] In recent decades, the traditional image of human origin having taken place in grasslands (e.g. the African savannah) has been challenged, since particularly the oldest homininin fossils are found alongside fossilized fauna and flora from traditional woodland habitats, rather than from grasslands, e.g. the some 4.4 million year old fossil Ardi, an Ardipithecus ramidus. [6] The basis of AAHAAH argues, that many features that distinguish humans from their nearest evolutionary relatives emerged because the ancestors of humans underwent a period adapting to a semiaquatic existence, arguing convergent evolution with other aquatic and semiaquatic, chiefly mammal, species. It is traditionally argued, that semiaquatic hominins later returned to a more terrestrial life before becoming fully aquatic, as e.g. whales and dolphins. Variations amongst AAH proponents suggest these proto-humans to have spent time either wading, swimming or diving on the shores of fresh, brackish, alcalic or saline waters, or different such habitats at different time frames, while feeding on littoral resources. [7] Key arguments have been developed and presented by Elaine Morgan since 1972, these based on the original suggestion of Alister Hardy. In later years, other contributors have further developed the aquatic ideas, some of which differ heavily from the original "aquatic ape" of Hardy et Morgan. The term waterside hypotheses of human evolution has been coined by AAH-proponent Algis Kuliukas to collectively represent this diversity, of which AAH is only one such hypothesis. Most traits perceived as aquatic are physiological and biochemical, while few are behavioral ( ethological). The time frame for the origin og possible termination of such an aquatic existence also differs between proponents, or though the same time frame as anthropological consensus is generally followed. In most cases, this aquaticism is perceived as having been instigated by selective pressure around the split of the last common ancestor between humans and chimpanzees. [8] The Belgian physician Marc Verhaegen has presented a unique variation of AAH, where semiaquatic traits is argued to be evident even before the split between humans and chimpanzees, this in Dryopithecus-like apes between 15 to 7 million years ago, which at that time had migrated from rain forests in Africa to then tropical rainforests around the Tethys Sea, the Mediterranean and across Southern Asia. At the end of this warmer period, the ancestors of orangutans is said to have migrated into South East Asia, while the ancestors of humans, chimps and gorillas migrated back into Africa, evolving into their present forms; chimps and gorillas becoming more land locked, while humans developed aquatic traits. Verhaegen also argues, that human aquaticism reached its peak with Homo erectus some 2-1 million years ago, this observed by e.g. thickened erectus bones, labeled pachyosteosclerosis, which is argued as having convergence during e.g. whale evolution from land to aquatic forms. Verhaegen further argues, that human aquaticism originally developed in tropical mangrove or seasonally flooded woodland, this based on the flora and fauna found alongside the earliest hominin fossils, a phenomenon he labels aquarborealism. [9] The argued degree of human aquaticism varies amongst proponents, however the vast majority argues a semiaquatic ape on par with e.g. hippos and sea otters. Very few have argued a fully aquatic stage on par with e.g. whales or pinnipeds, and this is rejected by the majority, including Morgan. Some pseudoscientific and cryptozoologic speculations have made use of parts of the AAH argumentation, e.g. the claimed existence of mermaids, [10] [11] but this is also rejected by proponents, including Morgan. [12] While most proto-human fossil sites are associated with wet conditions upon the death of the hominins, this is not seen as unequivocal evidence for the AAH, since being buried in waterside sediment is one of the rare situations in which fossilization is likely to occur (labeled preservation bias); paleontologists are aware of this preservation bias and expect fossils to be located at such sediments. [13] [14] Physiological and biochemical claims![]()
![]() ![]()
![]()
Ethological claims
![]()
Other claimsRare presented AAH-arguments points to the human tendency to watery psychic tears, and also sweat to cool down, where Morgan has withdrawn previous arguments, seeing that horses is a rare mammal species to also sweat profusely. [61] It is occasionally argued, that humans compared to other apes have reduced olfaction, with claimed convergences observed in other aquatics, e.g. whales; that the protuding human nose would be adapted to keep splashes out of nasal cavities, arguing the semiaquatic proboscis monkey or semiaquatic tapirs as possible convergences; the tendency of partial to full baldness in men; the tendency for human obesity; [53] and that human kidneys are better suited for excretion of salt than other apes. [62] Such arguments are generally considered more speculative and is often heavily critized. Theoretical considerations![]() ![]() The AAH has been criticized for containing multiple inconsistencies and lacking evidence from the fossil record to support its claims [25] [14] [63] (Morgan, for instance, failed to discuss any fossils found after 1960 and much of her analysis is by comparing soft tissues between humans and aquatic species). [25] It is also described as lacking parsimony, despite purporting to be a simple theory uniting many of the unique anatomical features of humans. [25] Anthropologist John D. Hawks expresses the view that rather than explaining human traits simply and parsimoniously, it actually requires two explanations for each trait - first that proximity to water drove human evolution enough to significantly change the human phenotype and second that there was significant evolutionary pressure beyond mere phylogenetic inertia to maintain these traits (which would not be adaptive on dry land) and points out that exaptation is not an adequate reply. Hawks concludes by saying:
Ellen White describes Morgan's work as failing to be empirical, not addressing evidence that contradicts the theory, relying on comparative anatomy rather than selection pressure, not predicting any new evidence and failing to address its own shortcomings. White stated that while the theory had the scientific characteristics of explanatory power and public debate, the only reason it has received any actual scholarly attention is due to its public appeal, ultimately concluding the AAH was unscientific. [65] Others have similarly noted the AAH "is more an exercise in comparative anatomy than a theory supported by data." [66] Though describing the hypothesis as plausible, Henry Gee went on to criticize it for being untestable, as most of the evolutionary adaptations described by Morgan would not have fossilized. Gee also stated that, while purely aquatic mammals such as whales show strong skeletal evidence of adaptation to water, humans and human fossils lack such adaptations (a comment made by others as well [14]); that there are many hypothetical and equally plausible scenarios explaining the unique characteristics of human adaptation without involving an aquatic phase of evolution; and that proponents are basing arguments about past adaptations on present physiology, when humans are not significantly aquatic. [67] There is ultimately only circumstantial evidence to suggest, and no solid evidence to support the AAH. [68] [69] ScienceBlogs author Greg Laden has described the AAH as a "human evolution theory of everything" that attempts to explain all anatomical and physiological features of humans and is correct in some areas only by chance. Laden also states that the AAH was proposed when knowledge of human evolutionary history was unclear, while more recent research has found that many human traits have emerged at different times over millions of years, rather than simultaneously due to a single evolutionary pressure. [38] Evolutionary biologist Carsten Niemitz states that he believes the AAH as expressed by Morgan didn't fulfill the criteria of a theory or a hypothesis, merely "[listing] analogies of features of savannah type mammals on the one hand and of aquatic mammals and man on the other, asking the scientific community for explanations other than a common aquatic ancestor of extant man." [15] Marc Verhaegen has also challenged the AAH as expressed by Morgan, believing the ancestors of apes as well as humans may have had their evolutionary history influenced by exposure to flooded forest environments, [70] and that based on the hominin fossil record, regular part-time underwater foraging began in the Pleistocene rather than the early Pliocene as Morgan’s model proposes. [71] In 2012 Langdon reviewed an e-book published by Bentham Science Publishers collecting 50 years of theorizing about the AAH. [72] In his review, [73] Langdon noted the lack of a single "aquatic ape hypothesis", instead there are multiple hypotheses with a common theme of evolutionary pressure due to dependence on an aquatic habitat. While original versions thought to explain an apparently substantial gap between humans and closely related common ancestors, more recent variants of these hypotheses have had to adjust to the fact that the gap was more apparent than real and the significant commonalities found between humans and other African apes. Three main strands of thought now exist regarding the AAH, varying according to when the theorized aquatic phase occurred - from the Middle Miocene to approximately three million years ago (Hardy's original model, which was based on a large gap in the fossil record that has since been filled in), from the Early Miocene when ancestral hominids were thought to wade in costal swamps and from which Homo species were thought to split off and adapt to swimming and diving (associated with the work of Marc Verhaegen), and from 200,000 years ago when exploitation of costal resources led humans out of Africa and resulted in the evolution of modern humans (associated with the work of Algis Kuliukas). Langdon notes the strong associations of humans with water, as well as the adaptability of the species to incredibly diverse ecological niches (including costal and wetland regions), both within and across lifetimes. Whether these associations define humans as "semiaquatic" or not "represents a fundamental point of departure between anthropologists and the [Aquatic Hypothesis] community." Langdon notes the three lines of evidence cited to support the AAH (comparative anatomy between humans and other semiaquatic species; hypothetical situations in which evolutionary pressure might have produced convergent evolution between humans and semiaquatic species; the ability for humans to perform various activities in the water) and concludes about these lines of evidence, [73]
Langdon criticizes the alleged "parsimony" of the AAH irrelevant as it is used to generate hypotheses about human adaptation – but does not prove them. The AAH is, like many Just So Stories in anthropology, ignored less because of prejudice than because of a lack of empirical evidence to support it, because it engages only with supporting evidence in the relevant scientific literature while ignoring the larger body of unsupporting evidence, and because its hypotheses are portrayed as "compatible with" more accepted hypotheses and thus unable to distinguish between or provide explicit evidence for the AAH. Langdon concludes his review: [73]
The authors of the volume published a reply. [74] ... End of new "Hypothesis" section draft ... |
There are a lot less variations than the possible ones that happen during evolution. It is evident that authors appear+ conditioned to assume a one off scenario as is the rule in religious literature. Nature is a lot more complex, therefore we cannot and should not ever agree on a single scenario. Adaptations happen in various ways, do not follow a straight line and can as we do know reverse as well. Millions of years mean considering a lot of different conditions and looking at any creature that had access to the oceans also a lot of space! Very likely there are many variations in aquatic adaptation including the loss of fur as I have seen a few persons not in need of much protection other than their natural coat! Personally I can add one adaptation that was assumed to counter an aquatic past; this is the effect of long time immersion on our skin. Very little effect really but for our palms and the soles of our feet, not only becoming non-slip but also ribbed . The said effect just happens to be very handy for a creature trying to walk on slippery surfaces and handle even more slippery slimy items! You are not likely to drop a glass or a fish with soaked hands! Also I wonder how many other creatures suffer from varicose veins? As a financial argh-ument; I do suggest for the savanna likers to invest in a resort in a desert. Yes we are terrestrial but we are paying for it.
AQUATICUS — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
202.89.188.117 (
talk)
23:08, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Added signatures that were not added. The diff-compare showed the 4 tildes, but the automatic signature function failed to add the signature and date to the above edits. It was probably the broken reflink which has since been fixed. Without a closing /ref, everything after the opening, including the signature tildes, was considered part of a citation.
There was also an accessibility problem with the table of contents showing sections that did not appear and which could not be accessed when the box was collapsed. There is a special template that displays headers without appearing in the TOC which solved that problem.
Happy trails... 172.162.6.235 ( talk) 14:06, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
I wan't sure if adding directly to the page would have been right , seeing the contrasting views in this talk and the fact that the theory isn't widely accepted.
Anyway I think that , at least , two claims should be added: the presence of the mammalian diving reflex , which shows that in some past we must have been at least a bit acquatic, and the high presence of some diseases , for examples myopia "In myopia, or nearsightedness, the eyeball is too long. Myopia usually starts in puberty and is more prevalent in boys. Also whales, seals and penguins are nearsighted outside the water (37-38). This is an adaptation to the refractive power of water (1.33; air, 1.00). "
THE AQUATIC APE THEORY AND SOME COMMON DISEASES M. J. B. VERHAEGEN Medical Hypotheses 24: 293-300 (1987), [3]
(i've skimmed only to the parts that interested me and a deeper analysis should be done)
-ale — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.232.231.130 ( talk) 14:04, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
In the "theoretical considerations" chapter, Langdon rightfully receive considerable space presenting his critisism of the eBook: "Was Man more aquatic in the past? Fifty years after Alister Hardy,Waterside Hypotheses of Human Evolution"
The rebuttal by Vaneechoutte and coauthors is merely referenced, however, and not stated in the text. This seems unbalanced. Unless challenged here, I will integrate some of the rebuttals from this reference in the "Theoretical considerations" chapter in a point-by-point style within next week.
Yours, PhD Frank Helle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FrankHansen99 ( talk • contribs) 10:04, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
The section which describes the wading hypothesis of bipedal origins needs improving in my opinion. It is currently rather vague in what it is supposed to be describing, it does not list the strongest arguments in favour of the idea and gives some pretty weak counter-arguments without any caveats.
They key observation in its favour is that all extant great apes that are quadrupedal on dry land will switch to bipedalism in waist deep water with 100% reliability. This will be bipedal locomotion, not just posture, it will be without any support of the forelimbs and will continue for as long as the conditions prevail. No other scenario will induce Pan, Gorilla or Pongo to move bipedally so easily or predictably and this is not true of any other mammalian taxon. Moving bipedally in waist deep water provides the simplest, most clear cut survival benefit imaginable - the animal can continue to breath.
The counter argument listed in the article that "bipedalism also gives many advantages on land, particularly lower energy expenditure and the ability of long-distance running—which humans do better than most terrestrial mammals" is weak. The energy efficiency only really works in flat, firm, vegetation-free substrates (e.g. on a dried out river bed or on a sandy beach right by the water's edge) and the ER hypothesis has a number of substantial problems (e.g. predation, how to replace water loss and the role of women and infants.)
The argument that "the AAH suggest that bipedalism is disadvantageous when comparing humans to medium-sized, terrestrial quadrupeds" is a red-herring invented by John Langdon, cherry picked from one of Elaine Morgan's books. Most waterside proponents today do not depend on that argument and would argue that the LCA of humans and chimps were wading-climbing apes exhibiting some kind of bipedalism, but not the current modern energy-efficient kind. To argue for early brachiation as the primary driver of bipedalism does not explain why chimps and gorillas and (to a lesser extent) orang utans reverted to quadrupedalism. The wading hypothesis answers this point easily.
The argument that "the elongated lower limbs of humans, which is explained by AAH proponents as improving swimming speeds" is a misrepresentation. Only a few proponents hold that view.
It is correct to say that "there is no single accepted explanation for human bipedalism" but a more scholarly list (of over 30+) of them could be provided. The wading hypothesis compares favourably with most of them as shown here.
A paper on the Wading Hypotheses of Human Bipedal Origins was recently published in the journal Human Evolution.
Abstract
At least 30 or so distinct ideas have been published in the scientific literature since the time of Charles Darwin pertaining to the origin of human bipedal locomotion and attempting to explain it in evolutionary terms. Some of them overlap and are complementary, whilst others vary widely and are contradictory. Each of them has strengths and weaknesses but there have been no published attempts at objectively comparing and evaluating them. Their popularity, or otherwise, according to the way they are presented in university texts, appears to be largely a matter of what is currently appealing to authorities of the day. One idea that has never been popular is the Wading Hypothesis. Here the idea is described in detail, discussed, assessed and objectively compared to other ideas, including those that are de rigeur today. Contrary to the mainstream view in anthropology today, it is argued here that there is nothing in the literature that adequately rejects the wading hypothesis, and that it is actually one of the strongest ideas yet proposed, deserving far more serious attention than it has been afforded to date. A “River Apes … Coastal People” wading model is introduced. This three-phased model of the evolution of human bipedality proposes a wading-climbing Last Common Ancestor of Gorilla-Pan-Homo (LCA-GPH), a seasonally flooded gallery forest habitat for the evolution of hominin bipedality, and a largely coastal foraging phase to optimise our modern efficient, striding gait.
Kuliukas, A.V. Wading Hypotheses of the Origin of Human Bipedalism. Human Evolution 28 (3-4):213-236, (2013).
AlgisKuliukas ( talk) 05:02, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
It says in the section on Westenhöfer's original draft of the AAH that he was "influenced by German National Socialism". No support for this statement is offered. Moreover, the article on Westenhöfer himself says little about his political views, but as he is stated to have influenced S. Allende, and was very concerned with the social conditions in Chile, he does not appear to have been too far right-wing. I don't know about the Anglo-Saxon discourse, but in Germany, linking somebody or something with National Socialism is a cheap, stupid, but fully effective way of discrediting him or it. Thus, mentioning the alleged influence in the beginning of the article is apt to prejudice the reader against the hypothesis from the start. This is even more deplorable if the claim should be wrong. I therefore suggest to either substantiate or remove this phrase. Konrad Lehmann ( talk) 09:37, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Here is a popular article with new support for the aquatic ape hypothesis from genetics and paleoanthropology.
http://boingboing.net/2009/12/16/how-shellfish-saved.html
http://boingboing.net/2009/12/16/how-shellfish-saved.html
Elemming ( talk) 15:35, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Wow. Someone has really made a butchery of Wikipedia standards. At least a quarter of this article should be edited out to remove the obvious biases against this theory and get a NPOV. Elemming ( talk) 15:42, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
The page could really do with a timeline of when each feature ascribed to the hypothesis (flooding of the Afar triangle, bipedalism, descending larynx, enlarging brain, reduction in hair, lowering density of the skeleton, etc) is known to have occurred, to see which - if any - occurred roughly at the same time as each other. If there's little or no overlap in the date ranges, then the hypothesis would seem severely weakened, though the "Waterside development" angle wouldn't be completely ruled out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DewiMorgan ( talk • contribs) 09:38, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Suggested revision
|
---|
Let's have a little fun with the denier. Please explain again just how the below version is POV-pushing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CEngelbrecht ( talk • contribs) 19:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC) ![]() ![]() The aquatic ape hypothesis (AAH) or aquatic ape theory (AAT) is a hypothesis about human evolution which posits that the ancestors of modern humans spent a period of time adapting to a semiaquatic existence. [75] [72] AAH emerged from the observation that some anatomical and physiological traits that set humans apart from other primates have parallels in aquatic mammals. The hypothesis was first proposed by German pathologist Max Westenhöfer in 1942, and then independently by English marine biologist Alister Hardy in 1960. After Hardy, the most prominent proponent was Welsh writer Elaine Morgan, who has written several books on the topic. AAH is not accepted among the mainstream explanations of human evolution. Scientific consensus states that humans first evolved during a period of rapid climate fluctuation between wet and dry, and that most of the adaptations that distinguish humans from the great apes are adaptations to a terrestrial, as opposed to an earlier, arboreal environment. Few paleoanthropologists have explicitly evaluated AAH in scientific journals, and those that have reviewed the hypothesis have been critical. An extensive criticism appeared in a peer reviewed paper by John H. Langdon in 1997. [25] Langdon states that the AAH is one of many hypotheses attempting to explain human evolution through a single causal mechanism, and that the evolutionary fossil record does not support such a proposal; that the hypothesis is internally inconsistent, has less explanatory power than its proponents claim, and that alternative terrestrial hypotheses are much better supported. AAH is popular among laypeople and has continued support by a minority of scholars. Langdon attributes this to the attraction of simplistic single-cause theories over the much more complex, but better supported models with multiple causality. History
The German pathologist Max Westenhöfer (1871–1957) can be said to have worded an early version of AAH, which he labeled "the aquatile man" (German: Aquatile Mensch), which he described in several publications during the 1930s and 1940's. Westenhöfer was partially influenced by contemporary German National Socialism and disputed Charles Darwin's theory on the kinship between modern man and the great apes. As part of a complex and unique presentation of human evolution, he argued that a number of traits in modern humans derived from a fully aquatic existence in the open seas, and that humans only in recent times returned to land. In 1942, he stated: "The postulation of an aquatic mode of life during an early stage of human evolution is a tenable hypothesis, for which further inquiry may produce additional supporting evidence." [76] Westenhöfer’s aquatic thesis suffered from a number of inconsistencies and contradictions, and consequently he abandoned the concept in his writings on human evolution around the end of the Second World War. [77] Independently and ignorant of Westenhöfer's writings, marine biologist Alister Hardy (1896-1985) had since 1930 also hypothesized, that humans may have had ancestors more aquatic than previously imagined, although his work conversely was rooted in the Darwin consensus. As a young academic with a hypothesis belonging to a topic outside his field, and because he was aware of its inherent controversy, Hardy delayed reporting his idea for some thirty years. After he had become a respected academic and knighted for contributions to marine biology, Hardy finally voiced his thoughts in a speech to the British Sub-Aqua Club in Brighton on 5 March 1960. Several national newspapers reported distorted versions of Hardy's ideas, which he countered by explaining them more fully in an article in New Scientist on 17 March 1960. [78] Hardy defined his idea:
The idea received some interest after the article was published, [79] but was generally ignored by the scientific community thereafter. In 1967, the hypothesis was briefly mentioned in The Naked Ape, a book by Desmond Morris (1928–) in which can be found the first use of the term "aquatic ape". [80] While doing research for her book "The Descent of Woman" published in 1972, a book inspired by reading Morris' The Naked Ape, TV-writer Elaine Morgan (1920-2013 [81]) was struck by the potential explanatory power of Hardy's hypothesis. While elaborating on Hardy's suggestion, Morgan also sought to challenge what she considered a masculine domination of the debate on human evolution, and the satirical book became an international bestseller, making Morgan a popular figure in feminist movements and on various TV talkshows in, for example, the United States. Conversely, her scientific contributions, including her elaboration on Hardy's aquatic humans was effectively ignored by anthropology. Morgan has since been the force majeure behind the development of Hardy's original idea, which after a number of publications culminated in 1997 with the book "The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis", which, with its now more factual language and proper referencing, was aimed primarily at the academic community. [75] [82] In 1987 a symposium was held in Valkenburg, the Netherlands, to debate the pros and cons of AAH. The proceedings of the symposium were published in 1991 with the title "Aquatic Ape: Fact or fiction?". [83] The chief editor summarized the results of the symposium as failing to support the idea that human ancestors were aquatic, but there is also some evidence that they may have swum and fed in inland lakes and rivers, with the result that modern humans can enjoy brief periods of time spent in the water. [84] Weaker versions of the hypothesis suggesting littoral feeding and wading rather than strong aquatic adaptation have since been proposed. These weaker versions of the hypothesis have not yet been scientifically explored. [15] The context of the initial presentations of AAH (a popular essay and a political text) diverted attention away from the possible scientific merits of the hypothesis. Most paleoanthropologists reject the AAH; [25] [13] [85] [86] but it has never been seriously scrutinized and discussed within the field of paleoanthropology. [25] Hypothesis
Anthropological consensus on human evolution
![]() ![]() Modern humans, Homo sapiens, developed from earlier forms found as fossils at various locations around the world, seeing an early concentration in East Africa. Other remnants from early humans such as tools, foods, dwellings, etc., have also been detected. Combined, these finds present a partial image of the process, that developed the species Homo sapiens. [87] From the collective work of anthropology, and in later years also genetics, established consensus states, that humans belong in the biological tribe Hominini, this in the family of Hominidae (the great apes), this in the order of primates, this in the class of mammals. Humans are closely related to, in order of closest kinship, the great ape genera chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, and further distant the family of gibbons. Hominini includes the subtribe Australopithecina with the genera Sahelanthropus, Orrorin, Ardipithecus, Paranthropus, Australopithecines; and the subtribe Hominina, encompassing the genus Homo, some of its species being Homo habilis, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, the Neanderthals and modern humans, the latter being the only extant species. [2] There is still some uncertainty about the interrelation between the known Hominin fossils; new finds can still drastically rewrite the human family tree, most recently with Sahelanthropus. Contemporary anthropology estimates, that the direct ancestors of modern humans split from a common ancestor to chimpanzees somewhere between 4 and 8 million years ago in Africa; the fossil ape Sahelanthropus tchadensis which lived some 7 million years ago in Chad is considered the earliest possible homininin. [88] Since the breakthrough of Darwin and Wallace's theory of evolution in the 19th century, it has been heavily debated why humans have features that distinguish them from their nearest evolutionary relatives; most notably by being near-furless, employing upright bipedal stance on their hind limbs, and having the perhaps most complex brain in the animal kingdom. A wide range of difficult to corroborate hypotheses have been presented as to the evolutionary background of the unique features of modern humans; for human bipedalism e.g. altered carrying behavior, improved energy efficiency, improved thermal regulation, altered social behavior and increased dominance behavior. [89] The human split from the lineage of the chimpanzees is linked to the geological formation of the East African mountain range Great Rift Valley that extends from Djibouti to Mozambique. In this region are found many of the key fossils of the earliest hominins, leaving it to be considered the cradle of humanity. The most widely considered hypothesis is that woodland dwelling, brachiating hominoids, specifically on the eastern side of the mountain range, gradually lost their habitat to more open areas, for instance grasslands, and that this and other changes forced these hominoids to develop the shapes, that gradually resulted in modern humans. [90] In recent decades, the traditional image of human origin having taken place in grasslands (e.g. the African savannah) has been challenged, since particularly the oldest homininin fossils are found alongside fossilized fauna and flora from traditional woodland habitats, rather than from grasslands, e.g. the some 4.4 million year old fossil Ardi, an Ardipithecus ramidus. [6] The basis of AAH
AAH suggests that many features that distinguish humans from their nearest evolutionary relatives emerged because the ancestors of humans underwent a period when they were adapting to an aquatic or semi-aquatic way of life, but returned to terrestrial life before having become fully adapted to the aquatic environment. Variations within the hypothesis suggests these protohumans to have spent time either wading, swimming or diving on the shores of fresh, brackish or saline waters and feeding on littoral resources. [7] Key arguments have been developed and presented by Elaine Morgan since 1972, these based on the original suggestion of Alister Hardy. In later years, other contributors have further developed the aquatic ideas, some of which differ heavily from the original "aquatic ape" of Hardy et Morgan. The term waterside hypotheses of human evolution has been coined by AAH-proponent Algis Kuliukas to collectively represent this diversity, of which AAH is only one such hypothesis. Most traits perceived as aquatic are physiological and biochemical, while few are behavioral ( ethological). The time frame for the origin og possible termination of such an aquatic existence also differs between proponents, or though the same time frame as anthropological consensus is generally followed. In most cases, this aquaticism is perceived as having been instigated by selective pressure around the split of the last common ancestor between humans and chimpanzees. [91] The Belgian physician Marc Verhaegen has presented a unique variation of AAH, where semiaquatic traits is argued to be evident even before the split between humans and chimpanzees, this in Dryopithecus-like apes between 15 to 7 million years ago, which at that time had migrated from rain forests in Africa to then tropical rainforests around the Tethys Sea, the Mediterranean and across Southern Asia. At the end of this warmer period, the ancestors of orangutans is said to have migrated into South East Asia, while the ancestors of humans, chimps and gorillas migrated back into Africa, evolving into their present forms; chimps and gorillas becoming more land locked, while humans developed aquatic traits. Verhaegen also argues, that human aquaticism reached its peak with Homo erectus some 2-1 million years ago, this observed by e.g. thickened erectus bones, labeled pachyosteosclerosis, which is argued as having convergence during e.g. whale evolution from land to aquatic forms. Verhaegen further argues, that human aquaticism originally developed in tropical mangrove or seasonally flooded woodland, this based on the flora and fauna found alongside the earliest hominin fossils, a phenomenon he labels aquarborealism. [92] The argued degree of human aquaticism varies amongst proponents, however the vast majority argues a semiaquatic ape on par with e.g. hippos and sea otters. Very few have argued a fully aquatic stage on par with e.g. whales or pinnipeds, and this is rejected by the majority, including Morgan. Some pseudoscientific and cryptozoologic speculations have made use of parts of the AAH argumentation, e.g. the claimed existence of mermaids, [93] [94] but this is also rejected by proponents, including Morgan. [95] While most proto-human fossil sites are associated with wet conditions upon the death of the hominins, this is not seen as unequivocal evidence for the AAH, since being buried in waterside sediment is one of the rare situations in which fossilization is likely to occur (labeled preservation bias); paleontologists are aware of this preservation bias and expect fossils to be located at such sediments. [13] [14] Physiological and biochemical claims
![]()
![]() ![]()
![]()
Ethological claims
![]()
Other claims
Rare presented AAH-arguments points to the human tendency to watery psychic tears, and also sweat to cool down, where Morgan has withdrawn previous arguments, seeing that horses is a rare mammal species to also sweat profusely. [125] It is occasionally argued, that humans compared to other apes have reduced olfaction, with claimed convergences observed in other aquatics, e.g. whales; that the protuding human nose would be adapted to keep splashes out of nasal cavities, arguing the semiaquatic proboscis monkey or semiaquatic tapirs as possible convergences; the tendency of partial to full baldness in men; the tendency for human obesity; [53] and that human kidneys are better suited for excretion of salt than other apes. [126] Such arguments are generally considered more speculative and is often heavily critized. Theoretical considerations
![]() ![]() The AAH has been criticized for containing multiple inconsistencies and lacking evidence from the fossil record to support its claims [25] [14] [63] (Morgan, for instance, failed to discuss any fossils found after 1960 and much of her analysis is by comparing soft tissues between humans and aquatic species). [25] It is also described as lacking parsimony, despite purporting to be a simple theory uniting many of the unique anatomical features of humans. [25] Anthropologist John D. Hawks expresses the view that rather than explaining human traits simply and parsimoniously, it actually requires two explanations for each trait - first that proximity to water drove human evolution enough to significantly change the human phenotype and second that there was significant evolutionary pressure beyond mere phylogenetic inertia to maintain these traits (which would not be adaptive on dry land) and points out that exaptation is not an adequate reply. Hawks concludes by saying:
Ellen White describes Morgan's work as failing to be empirical, not addressing evidence that contradicts the hypothesis, relying on comparative anatomy rather than selection pressure, not predicting any new evidence and failing to address its own shortcomings. White stated that while the hypothesis had the scientific characteristics of explanatory power and public debate, the only reason it has received any actual scholarly attention is due to its public appeal, ultimately concluding the AAH was unscientific. [65] Others have similarly noted the AAH "is more an exercise in comparative anatomy than a theory supported by data." [66] Though describing the hypothesis as plausible, Henry Gee went on to criticize it for being untestable, as most of the evolutionary adaptations described by Morgan would not have fossilized. Gee also stated that, while purely aquatic mammals such as whales show strong skeletal evidence of adaptation to water, humans and human fossils lack such adaptations (a comment made by others as well [14]); that there are many hypothetical and equally plausible scenarios explaining the unique characteristics of human adaptation without involving an aquatic phase of evolution; and that proponents are basing arguments about past adaptations on present physiology, when humans are not significantly aquatic. [127] There is ultimately only circumstantial evidence to suggest, and no solid evidence to support the AAH. [68] [128] ScienceBlogs author Greg Laden has described the AAH as a "human evolution theory of everything" that attempts to explain all anatomical and physiological features of humans and is correct in some areas only by chance. Laden also states that the AAH was proposed when knowledge of human evolutionary history was unclear, while more recent research has found that many human traits have emerged at different times over millions of years, rather than simultaneously due to a single evolutionary pressure. [38] Evolutionary biologist Carsten Niemitz states that he believes the AAH as expressed by Morgan didn't fulfill the criteria of a theory or a hypothesis, merely "[listing] analogies of features of savannah type mammals on the one hand and of aquatic mammals and man on the other, asking the scientific community for explanations other than a common aquatic ancestor of extant man." [15] Marc Verhaegen has also challenged the AAH as expressed by Morgan, believing the ancestors of apes as well as humans may have had their evolutionary history influenced by exposure to flooded forest environments, [70] and that based on the hominin fossil record, regular part-time underwater foraging began in the Pleistocene rather than the early Pliocene as Morgan’s model proposes. [71] In 2012 Langdon reviewed an e-book published by Bentham Science Publishers collecting 50 years of theorizing about the AAH. [72] In his review, [73] Langdon noted the lack of a single "aquatic ape hypothesis", instead there are multiple hypotheses with a common theme of evolutionary pressure due to dependence on an aquatic habitat. While original versions thought to explain an apparently substantial gap between humans and closely related common ancestors, more recent variants of these hypotheses have had to adjust to the fact that the gap was more apparent than real and the significant commonalities found between humans and other African apes. Three main strands of thought now exist regarding the AAH, varying according to when the theorized aquatic phase occurred - from the Middle Miocene to approximately three million years ago (Hardy's original model, which was based on a large gap in the fossil record that has since been filled in), from the Early Miocene when ancestral hominids were thought to wade in costal swamps and from which Homo species were thought to split off and adapt to swimming and diving (associated with the work of Marc Verhaegen), and from 200,000 years ago when exploitation of costal resources led humans out of Africa and resulted in the evolution of modern humans (associated with the work of Algis Kuliukas). Langdon notes the strong associations of humans with water, as well as the adaptability of the species to incredibly diverse ecological niches (including costal and wetland regions), both within and across lifetimes. Whether these associations define humans as "semiaquatic" or not "represents a fundamental point of departure between anthropologists and the [Aquatic Hypothesis] community." Langdon notes the three lines of evidence cited to support the AAH (comparative anatomy between humans and other semiaquatic species; hypothetical situations in which evolutionary pressure might have produced convergent evolution between humans and semiaquatic species; the ability for humans to perform various activities in the water) and concludes about these lines of evidence, [73]
Langdon criticizes the alleged "parsimony" of the AAH irrelevant as it is used to generate hypotheses about human adaptation – but does not prove them. The AAH is, like many Just So Stories in anthropology, ignored less because of prejudice than because of a lack of empirical evidence to support it, because it engages only with supporting evidence in the relevant scientific literature while ignoring the larger body of unsupporting evidence, and because its hypotheses are portrayed as "compatible with" more accepted hypotheses and thus unable to distinguish between or provide explicit evidence for the AAH. Langdon concludes his review: [73]
The authors of the volume published a reply. [129] Reception
The AAH has received little serious attention or acceptance from mainstream paleoanthropologists, [13] [86] [130] [131] has been met with significant skepticism [131] [132] and is not considered a strong scientific hypothesis. [13] [66] The AAH does not appear to have passed the peer review process, and despite Morgan being praised by various scholars, none of her work has appeared in any academic journals of anthropology or related disciplines. [65] The AAH is thought by some anthropologists to be accepted readily by popular audiences, students and non-specialist scholars because of its simplicity. [25] In 1987 a symposium was held in Valkenburg, the Netherlands, titled "Aquatic Ape: Fact or fiction?", which published its proceedings in 1991. [83] A review of Morgan's book The Scars of Evolution stated that it did not address the central questions of anthropology – how the human and chimpanzee gene lines diverged – which was why it was ignored by the scholarly community. The review also stated that Morgan ignored the fossil record and skirted the absence of evidence that australopithecine underwent any adaptations to water, making the hypothesis impossible to validate from fossils. [63] Morgan has claimed the AAH was rejected for a variety of reasons unrelated to its explanatory power: old academics were protecting their careers, sexism on the part of male researchers, and her status as a non-academic intruding on academic debates. Despite modifications to the hypothesis and occasional forays into scientific conferences, the AAH has neither been accepted as a mainstream theory nor managed to venture a genuine challenge to orthodox theories of human evolution. [133] Morgan's critics have claimed that the appeal of AAH can be explained in several ways: [25]
John D. Hawks, along with PZ Myers and fellow ScienceBlogs paleontologist Greg Laden recommend the website "Aquatic Ape Theory: Sink or Swim?" by Jim Moore as a resource on the topic. [38] [134] Conversely, Elaine Morgan and Algis Kuliukas have critisized Jim Moore for heavily distorting in particular Morgan's arguments, this with very little use of references. [135] [136] Anthropologist Colin Groves has stated that Morgan's theories are sophisticated enough that they should be taken seriously as a possible explanation for hominin divergence [137] and Carsten Niemitz has found more recent, weaker versions of the hypothesis more acceptable, approaching some of his own theories on human evolution. [15] In a 2012 paper, anthropologist Philip Tobias noted that rejection of the AAH led to stigmatization of a spectrum of topics related to the evolution of humans and their interaction with water. The result of this bias, in his and co-authors' opinions, was an incomplete reconstruction of human evolution within varied landscapes. [138] See also
Footnotes
External links
{{Link FA|hu}} |
References
signing (with falsified date to match original end of discussion) for archiver. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 06:06, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
"Rarely presented AAH arguments point to the human tendency to produce watery psychic tears". Watery psychic tears? As opposed to tears that are not watery and do not have the ability to read minds? I'm guessing that the word "psychic" here is intended to mean something like "generated by the psyche" - i.e. emotion - but it's not the best choice of words. It's also not very clear what this argument actually is. Why is crying only possible is you evolve in water? Is the argument that the body would not adapt to unnecessarily lose a precious resource such as water unless it evolved in conditions in which water was plentiful? This needs some context as well as clarification. Paul B ( talk) 13:43, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
This article is horribly dated and biased. The AAT of today is far different than what Hardy presented or what Elaine Morgan promoted. As there remains such controversy on the subject I would like to suggest the following solution:
Establish 2 pages, one Anti AAT and one Pro AAT. Allow the two sides to separately present their evidence and arguments in a thoughtful and respectful manner. As for the current article, it could either be deleted or used as the anti view.
205.167.128.152 ( talk) 18:01, 7 June 2015 (UTC)GCJ
Not surprising to hear that. Sad that dialogue is being discouraged. BTW, Neil, are you a WIKI Administrator?
205.167.128.152 ( talk) 19:38, 7 June 2015 (UTC)GCJ
I have uncited the word to word [4] duplication from BBC article. [5] Please research, there can be more. VandVictory ( talk) 03:37, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Another one, [6] was not different to [7] VandVictory ( talk) 04:22, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
[8] not different to [9] VandVictory ( talk) 09:50, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
It's so sad because there is no opportunity for AAT supporters to really explain the theory properly. Most of the scepticism comes from not fully understanding the idea, and there is no hope for us to change this article to what we really think when there are people out there wishing to paint us as Nazis. I couldn't even add a link to wiki's own page on the dive reflex. I can only imagine that this must have been the sorrow once faced by Darwin, when the theory of evolution was first met with so much resistance. It leaves a little glimmer of hope that as the outdated references quotes in the article start to gather dust along with their writers, more open-minded people willing to listen to reason rather than positing their opinions as fact will one day be listened to. Wikipaedia editors themselves clearly are interested in this topic - since they featured it on their home page no less than three times! Maybe this was the mistake, because it only drew the article to the attention of fierce opponents who so vehemently believe that this is a "Just So" story? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquapess ( talk • contribs) 20:43, 15 May 2015
A wiki page about the Aquatic Ape theory that doesn't allow any valid Aquatic Ape Theory information or valid references seems strange. What would be the harm in allowing a few real references and adding description of the opposing theories? After the theory is proven fact, then more rigorous requirements could be used before allowing editing.
.
My following sample needs a complete rewrite, but something like:
.
Aquatic Ape Theory pseudoscience: When Pan and Humans split, Pan stayed in the jungle but humans moved to edges of rivers, lakes, and oceans. Humans adapted to waterside life and many humans still live near bodies of water.
.
Savanna Proven Fact science: When Pan and Humans split, Pan stayed in the jungle but humans moved to the savanna. Humans adapted to savanna life but later lost most of the adaptations so do not often live on savannas. Humans only recently moved to be near bodies of water in the last few years with no adaptations.
Somitcw (
talk)
19:10, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Guy, please be clearer on what you guess is "That is categorically false.".
Is it that negative people twist the Aquatic Ape Theory into invalid weirdness just to be able to dispute the weirdness that they invented?
Is it that "Aquatic Ape Theory pseudoscience" is only pseudoscience because people with a negative point of view rewrite it to make it appear to be pseudoscience?
Is it that "Savanna Proven Fact science" has no relation with science?
Is the fix to let people that understand AAT delete the hateful AAT article and rewrite from scratch using valid facts about what the theory is?
So many questions to your one incomplete comment. Sorry.
Somitcw (
talk)
19:49, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Sorry TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom. I had assumed that Wikipedia articles should contain some truth instead being all distorted information and negative innuendos. My bad.
I wonder why Guy didn't answer?
Somitcw (
talk)
20:47, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
Aquapess is attempting to insert this: {{cquote|Despite this, the central idea of this theory has recently received more attention, and has even gained support from Sir David Attenborough at a recent conference at the Royal Marsden Hospital ("Human Evolution Past, Present and Future - Anthropological, Medical and Nutritional Considerations", 2013). [1] [2]
Let's discuss what to do with this text. I think the 2013 conference should probably be mentioned in the article, but it was of course organized by AAH proponents and did not have any significant participation by mainstream paleoanthropologists, and the 2011 book to my knowledge has only received one negative review by Langdon, who was also the only opponent of the theory present at the conference. We would need some third party coverage of the conference to assess its general reception, and we would also need to include Langdon's counter arguments. I am unsure about what relevance Attenborough's support has, if we start including namedropping then to avoid giving it undue prominence we would probably need a list of similar people opposing the theory - which would of course be longer. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 19:02, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Two of the references you added do not include the words "David Attenborough", so I'm not sure how they are relevant. Granted, one of them gives links to a Guardian piece on the topic
[3], which is actually a well-balanced article attempting to show facts without taking sides.
One of the references you used was a personal piece written by a Nature editor who clearly just wanted to advertise his book, and another one was a blog. It's quite easy to find a blog that agrees with whatever stance you have, so I'm also not clear how that is substantial support for the aquatic ape theory being "wrong".
Lastly, your use of "International Business Times" as a reference is very interesting indeed, especially since one of the criticisms of the AAT is that "only non-specialists" support it. I didn't realise that IBT was a specialist in Palaeoanthropology. I agree, the Daily Mail does peddle some garbage, but at least I was only using it as a national news source to report a factual event, and not as a means to either prove or disprove the theory. Having said that, at least IBT correctly reported that:
Conference chairman Professor Rhys Evans, a surgeon at the Royal Marsden Hospital, said: "We are trying to discuss the pros and cons of the theory. But many of the things which are unique to humans - such as a descended larynx, walking upright, fat beneath the skin, and most obviously an extremely large brain - it seems can best be accounted for as adaptations to extended periods in an aquatic environment."
The issue here isn't whether people agree or disagree with people like David Attenborough or Professor Rhys Evans, but rather that the statement at the end of the opening paragraph is now out of date:
popularity of the idea with non-experts
and a later derogatory comment
The AAH is thought by some anthropologists to be accepted readily by popular audiences, students and non-specialist scholars because of its simplicity
Langdon may have thought this in 1997 (the reference used to support these statement), it is now 2015, and more and more educated people are coming to the conclusion that water likely played a significant part in human evolution, including high ranking medical professors and someone who, yes, may be a broadcaster, but has had lifelong contributions as presenter in the service of science, has first hand experience with, chimps, gorillas and orangutans as well as aquatic mammals throughout his long-spanning career, as well as others in the palaoanthropology field, such as Chris Stringer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquapess ( talk • contribs)
Aquapess ( talk) 17:47, 3 June 2015 (UTC)"As I discuss (with tongue firmly in cheek) in my forthcoming book The Accidental Species,"
"The idea that people went through an aquatic phase at some time in their evolutionary past is currently undergoing a popular resurgence (see Foley & Lahr[1]). This idea has even started to gain some traction in more learned circles; the late paleoanthropologist Phillip Tobias wrote in support of aspects of it in an edited e-book[2] and a conference on the topic held recently in London was endorsed by celebrities such as the television presenter Sir David Attenborough.[3] Despite (or perhaps because of) the lack of interest within the academic community, advocates of the concept continue to fill the media with challenges to the “savannah hypothesis” of the origins of people and to bemoan the fact that their views are not taken seriously by mainstream academia."
Seems like you guys want to brush Rae and Koppe (2014) under the carpet Aquapess ( talk) 12:44, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
References
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
(
help)
{{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
{{
cite book}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
People will probably not like a YouTube video as a source, but here is a National Geographic clip, See How Easily a Rat Can Wriggle Up Your Toilet. National Geographic says that rats can hold their breath for up to three minutes underwater and they have the stamina to tread water for three days straight. Stoodpointt ( talk) 10:02, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
This article uses Langdon's (1997) JHE paper, as it's most authoritative source. This is probably because it remains the only serious critique to be published in a 1st class palaeoanthropological journal. (Foley & Lahr's 2014 4 page critique notwithstanding.) All over the article, arguments from Langdon are cited, as if this was the definitive last word on the matter. This would be fair if a citation was also given to the published critique of Langdon's paper.
Kuliukas AV, (2011). Langdon’s Critique of the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis: It’s Final Refutation, or Just Another Misunderstanding?. In: Vaneechoutte M, Verhaegen M, Kuliukas AV, (eds.), (2011). Was Man More Aquatic In The Past? Fifty Years After Alister Hardy: Waterside Hypothesis Of Human Evolution. Bentham (Basel)
Abstract: Thus far, there has been no challenge to Langdon’s 1997 critique [1]of the aquatic ape hypothesis (AAH), despite its having a number of weaknesses. The paper lacks scholarliness as it does not draw upon the one published scientific investigation into the plausibility of the AAH in the literature, i.e., that byRoede et al. [2]. Langdon’s summary of “anatomical evidence for the AAH” seems to have been directed against an exaggerated interpretation of Alister Hardy’s hypothesis that humans were “more aquatic in the past” [3]. Most of the critique was based on cursory and superficial comparisons with fully aquatic mammals, such as cetaceans, rather than considering whether human ancestors could have been more aquatic than those of apes. Even on this basis, Langdon considered eleven out of twenty-six traits to be “possible aquatic adaptations” or “consistent with the AAH”.
Foley & Lahr (2014) has also been critiqued...
Kuliukas, AV Removing the “hermetic seal” from the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis: Waterside Hypotheses of Human Evolution. Advances in Anthropology 4:164-167, (2014).
The current (March/April 2014) issue of Evolutionary Anthropology is rare in that it contains two papers specifically critiquing the so-called “aquatic ape hypothesis” (abbreviated “AAH”, but better labelled, in the plural, “waterside hypotheses of human evolution.”). The first (Foley & Lahr, 2014) is a general assessment of the authors’ interpretation of the AAH and the second (Rae & Koppe, 2014) is a particular rebuttal of one specific idea—the sinuses for floatation hypothesis. This short paper is a response to both. It is argued that the first uses a straw man’s argument to characterize the so-called “AAH” as arguing for exclusively more aquatic adaptations than waterside proponents have in the past. Foley & Lahr’s paper is also unscholarly in that it does not draw upon the latest scholarly work. One chapter of that work re-defines and re-labels the “AAH”, which was of key importance to their paper. Rae & Koppe’s paper is harder to criticize but still contains some problems which the authors overlook in their strict rejection of the sinuses for floatation hypothesis. If one understands that waterside hypotheses of human evolution are simply postulating that major phenotypic differences between humans and chimps are the result of a (perhaps slight) differential in the selection from wading, swimming and diving, they cannot be ridiculed as belonging in the same “crazy box” as creationism as Henry Gee recently argued and must take their place within mainstream physical anthropology.
AlgisKuliukas ( talk) 23:47, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Aquatic ape hypothesis. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 18:38, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello,
It's great that we have a picture for finger wrinkling on the page, but I realised that there is actually no text to explain the relevance of this feature to AAT. Normally images accompany text to demonstrate something, but in this case, there's an image just floating in the "other claims" section with no information about this interesting topic, and as a result it looks a bit clumsy and disorganised. Conversely, the Wikipaedia page for fingers actually has a great and balanced section describing this interesting nervous system response. It's not simply just cells swelling in response to water exposure, which would happen all over our bodies if that was the case; and it has been known for some time that damage to nerves eliminates this response. [1] So I propose to add something like this under the physiological and biochemical claims if that is ok?
Many thanks for your considered and polite reply Dmcq. So basically, the IFLS reference which DOES specify link to AAT doesn't count I gather, so it wouldn't be possible to paraphrase to something like:
I have shortened it, and put both sides forward, with no leaning towards either side. Aquapess ( talk) 20:35, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
Er, Occam's razor, anyone? Viriditas ( talk) 22:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Is there a specific edit to the article someone wishes to propose? Otherwise this appears clearly to be WP:NOTFORUM and should be closed. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:55, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Do editorial changes have to be specific? Or can the general thrust of the article be discussed? Isn't the discussion about what the point of view of the article should be? Should the article help pooh-pooh the theory? Or strike a more neutral tone? 173.173.20.99 ( talk) 04:45, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Another example of revolutionary change in scientific orthodoxy is plate tectonics. lack of an overt statement that AAH must be wrong because the scientific consensus says so, does not alter the fact that that is at least part of the overall thrust of the article as it now stands. The Occam's razor point seems a strong one to me. And being grumpy and disappointed is in itself not an argument ... so my children often tell me, anyway ... 80.17.36.33 ( talk) 13:53, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
This article is outdated both in its name and approach. I have just listened to part 1 of a BBC radio 4 programme at [14] by David Attenborough, which states that it is now called the "Waterside ape theory", and is increasingly accepted by mainstream scientists. (Part 2 of the radio program on the latest evidence is tomorrow 15 September.) The subject is outside my field, but is very important in human evolution and badly needs rewriting by someone competent. Dudley Miles ( talk) 09:11, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Beginning to collate a list, and great to see that “At the heart of science is an essential tension between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counter-intuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.” is still relevent! Edmund Patrick – confer 10:12, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
is this what you are looking for? Hopefully others will add and it will at least improve the article. Edmund Patrick – confer 10:55, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you Dudley Miles for the work in providing a informative description of the second episode. It is true that the article is not neutral in its words and presentation, though like you there is limitations to what I can do, and I would have an axe to grind, mainly the total denial of any possibility of this theory being correct or partly correct and given obviously the number of scientists and/or professors that have just committed a foolish mistake of expressing support for parts of the theory I am not alone. It has and I am sure will continue to lead to wonderful evening conversations with fellow workers especially archaeologists! Once I have finished my work on Mathew Hopkins and Edmund the Martyr I may well take a deep breath and..... Edmund Patrick – confer 12:29, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
The sentence "Conversely, both Morgan and Algis Kuliukas have accused Moore of distorting Morgan and other AAH-proponents presentations from the debate, using only little referencing" is followed by two citations. The first of these needs to be removed. When I clicked on it, my browser left a message stating, "The site ahead contains malware Attackers currently on www.elainemorgan.me.uk might attempt to install dangerous programs on your computer that steal or delete your information (for example, photos, passwords, messages, and credit cards)." FreeKnowledgeCreator ( talk) 10:03, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
I had a problem with one of the illustrations here as detailed in the previous section, but a bunch of people have descended on it and removed all of them without discussion. The last says 'one edit is not edit warring and this is the last stable version so per WP:BRD this is the one we go with while talk page discussion commences' but it is obvious that is not so if one looks at the history pager, most of those illustrations have been there and never removed in the last few months at least before today. Perhaps some of these people could say why they have suddenly turned up? And what is the reasoning for removing all illustrations? Dmcq ( talk) 20:46, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Good to see the images are back. I agree with the current criteria of selecting images. How about the summary diagram I put here before? Is such kind of diagram beneficial to the readers while not violating NPOV and RS, or, can it be improved in some way before putting here? Some examples: File:Geological_time_spiral.png, File:Map-of-human-migrations.jpg. Of course these 2 examples are already enjoying scientific support (unlike AAH), but I'd like to demonstrate the advantage of summarizing a complicated idea. Chakazul ( talk) 09:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Specific images that deal with the aquatice ape hypothesis can be included. However, every single image included in this article was original research of the plainest sort. I removed the lot of them. Please find good images for the article. Images of the main proponents, for example. Images relating to human evolution. However, images of sea food, divers, and horses are not appropriate. jps ( talk) 19:59, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
This is not a resolution if there are editors advocating to reinstate original research images. Therefore WP:NORN#Images at Aquatic Ape Hypothesis. jps ( talk) 23:53, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
Incidentally, a pointy violation would be to include the image to the right in the article. Is there any reason not to if we include a picture of a swimming baby? jps ( talk) 23:56, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
I have added images to illustrate this affect as it is entirely supportive of evolutionary pressure applied in a wet environment. Nature Lumos3 ( talk) 21:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
Kyriacos Kareklas, Daniel Nettle and Tom V. Smulders⇓
Given that this removed a major chunk of the article, it should be discussed here first. Pinging Fama Clamosa. -- NeilN talk to me 19:00, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
(I added a flag to the section header to correspond to a tag on the article content) -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:42, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
Suggestion, see above (collapsed as it is very long)
|
---|
Anthropological consensus on human evolution![]() Modern humans, Homo sapiens, developed from earlier forms found as fossils at various locations around the world, seeing an early concentration in East Africa. Other remnants from early humans such as tools, foods, dwellings, etc., have also been detected. Combined, these finds present a partial image of the process, that developed the species Homo sapiens. [1] From the collective work of anthropology, and in later years also genetics, established consensus states, that humans belong in the biological tribe Hominini, this in the family of Hominidae (the great apes), this in the order of primates, this in the class of mammals. Humans are closely related to, in order of closest kinship, the great ape genera chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, and further distant the family of gibbons. Hominini includes the subtribe Australopithecina with the genera Sahelanthropus, Orrorin, Ardipithecus, Paranthropus, Australopithecines; and the subtribe Hominina, encompassing the genus Homo, some of its species being Homo habilis, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, the Neanderthals and modern humans, the latter being the only extant species. [2] There is still some uncertainty about the interrelation between the known Hominin fossils; new finds can still drastically rewrite the human family tree, most recently with Sahelanthropus. Contemporary anthropology estimates, that the direct ancestors of modern humans split from a common ancestor to chimpanzees somewhere between 4 and 8 million years ago in Africa; the fossil ape Sahelanthropus tchadensis which lived some 7 million years ago in Chad is considered the earliest possible homininin. [3] Since the breakthrough of Darwin and Wallace's theory of evolution in the 19th century, it has been heavily debated why humans have features that distinguish them from their nearest evolutionary relatives; most notably by being near-furless, employing upright bipedal stance on their hind limbs, and having the perhaps most complex brain in the animal kingdom. A wide range of difficult to corroborate hypotheses have been presented as to the evolutionary background of the unique features of modern humans; for human bipedalism e.g. altered carrying behavior, improved energy efficiency, improved thermal regulation, altered social behavior and increased dominance behavior. [4] The human split from the lineage of the chimpanzees is linked to the geological formation of the East African mountain range Great Rift Valley that extends from Djibouti to Mozambique. In this region are found many of the key fossils of the earliest hominins, leaving it to be considered the cradle of humanity. The most widely considered hypothesis is that woodland dwelling, brachiating hominoids, specifically on the eastern side of the mountain range, gradually lost their habitat to more open areas, for instance grasslands, and that this and other changes forced these hominoids to develop the shapes, that gradually resulted in modern humans. [5] In recent decades, the traditional image of human origin having taken place in grasslands (e.g. the African savannah) has been challenged, since particularly the oldest homininin fossils are found alongside fossilized fauna and flora from traditional woodland habitats, rather than from grasslands, e.g. the some 4.4 million year old fossil Ardi, an Ardipithecus ramidus. [6] The basis of AAHAAH argues, that many features that distinguish humans from their nearest evolutionary relatives emerged because the ancestors of humans underwent a period adapting to a semiaquatic existence, arguing convergent evolution with other aquatic and semiaquatic, chiefly mammal, species. It is traditionally argued, that semiaquatic hominins later returned to a more terrestrial life before becoming fully aquatic, as e.g. whales and dolphins. Variations amongst AAH proponents suggest these proto-humans to have spent time either wading, swimming or diving on the shores of fresh, brackish, alcalic or saline waters, or different such habitats at different time frames, while feeding on littoral resources. [7] Key arguments have been developed and presented by Elaine Morgan since 1972, these based on the original suggestion of Alister Hardy. In later years, other contributors have further developed the aquatic ideas, some of which differ heavily from the original "aquatic ape" of Hardy et Morgan. The term waterside hypotheses of human evolution has been coined by AAH-proponent Algis Kuliukas to collectively represent this diversity, of which AAH is only one such hypothesis. Most traits perceived as aquatic are physiological and biochemical, while few are behavioral ( ethological). The time frame for the origin og possible termination of such an aquatic existence also differs between proponents, or though the same time frame as anthropological consensus is generally followed. In most cases, this aquaticism is perceived as having been instigated by selective pressure around the split of the last common ancestor between humans and chimpanzees. [8] The Belgian physician Marc Verhaegen has presented a unique variation of AAH, where semiaquatic traits is argued to be evident even before the split between humans and chimpanzees, this in Dryopithecus-like apes between 15 to 7 million years ago, which at that time had migrated from rain forests in Africa to then tropical rainforests around the Tethys Sea, the Mediterranean and across Southern Asia. At the end of this warmer period, the ancestors of orangutans is said to have migrated into South East Asia, while the ancestors of humans, chimps and gorillas migrated back into Africa, evolving into their present forms; chimps and gorillas becoming more land locked, while humans developed aquatic traits. Verhaegen also argues, that human aquaticism reached its peak with Homo erectus some 2-1 million years ago, this observed by e.g. thickened erectus bones, labeled pachyosteosclerosis, which is argued as having convergence during e.g. whale evolution from land to aquatic forms. Verhaegen further argues, that human aquaticism originally developed in tropical mangrove or seasonally flooded woodland, this based on the flora and fauna found alongside the earliest hominin fossils, a phenomenon he labels aquarborealism. [9] The argued degree of human aquaticism varies amongst proponents, however the vast majority argues a semiaquatic ape on par with e.g. hippos and sea otters. Very few have argued a fully aquatic stage on par with e.g. whales or pinnipeds, and this is rejected by the majority, including Morgan. Some pseudoscientific and cryptozoologic speculations have made use of parts of the AAH argumentation, e.g. the claimed existence of mermaids, [10] [11] but this is also rejected by proponents, including Morgan. [12] While most proto-human fossil sites are associated with wet conditions upon the death of the hominins, this is not seen as unequivocal evidence for the AAH, since being buried in waterside sediment is one of the rare situations in which fossilization is likely to occur (labeled preservation bias); paleontologists are aware of this preservation bias and expect fossils to be located at such sediments. [13] [14] Physiological and biochemical claims![]()
![]() ![]()
![]()
Ethological claims
![]()
Other claimsRare presented AAH-arguments points to the human tendency to watery psychic tears, and also sweat to cool down, where Morgan has withdrawn previous arguments, seeing that horses is a rare mammal species to also sweat profusely. [61] It is occasionally argued, that humans compared to other apes have reduced olfaction, with claimed convergences observed in other aquatics, e.g. whales; that the protuding human nose would be adapted to keep splashes out of nasal cavities, arguing the semiaquatic proboscis monkey or semiaquatic tapirs as possible convergences; the tendency of partial to full baldness in men; the tendency for human obesity; [53] and that human kidneys are better suited for excretion of salt than other apes. [62] Such arguments are generally considered more speculative and is often heavily critized. Theoretical considerations![]() ![]() The AAH has been criticized for containing multiple inconsistencies and lacking evidence from the fossil record to support its claims [25] [14] [63] (Morgan, for instance, failed to discuss any fossils found after 1960 and much of her analysis is by comparing soft tissues between humans and aquatic species). [25] It is also described as lacking parsimony, despite purporting to be a simple theory uniting many of the unique anatomical features of humans. [25] Anthropologist John D. Hawks expresses the view that rather than explaining human traits simply and parsimoniously, it actually requires two explanations for each trait - first that proximity to water drove human evolution enough to significantly change the human phenotype and second that there was significant evolutionary pressure beyond mere phylogenetic inertia to maintain these traits (which would not be adaptive on dry land) and points out that exaptation is not an adequate reply. Hawks concludes by saying:
Ellen White describes Morgan's work as failing to be empirical, not addressing evidence that contradicts the theory, relying on comparative anatomy rather than selection pressure, not predicting any new evidence and failing to address its own shortcomings. White stated that while the theory had the scientific characteristics of explanatory power and public debate, the only reason it has received any actual scholarly attention is due to its public appeal, ultimately concluding the AAH was unscientific. [65] Others have similarly noted the AAH "is more an exercise in comparative anatomy than a theory supported by data." [66] Though describing the hypothesis as plausible, Henry Gee went on to criticize it for being untestable, as most of the evolutionary adaptations described by Morgan would not have fossilized. Gee also stated that, while purely aquatic mammals such as whales show strong skeletal evidence of adaptation to water, humans and human fossils lack such adaptations (a comment made by others as well [14]); that there are many hypothetical and equally plausible scenarios explaining the unique characteristics of human adaptation without involving an aquatic phase of evolution; and that proponents are basing arguments about past adaptations on present physiology, when humans are not significantly aquatic. [67] There is ultimately only circumstantial evidence to suggest, and no solid evidence to support the AAH. [68] [69] ScienceBlogs author Greg Laden has described the AAH as a "human evolution theory of everything" that attempts to explain all anatomical and physiological features of humans and is correct in some areas only by chance. Laden also states that the AAH was proposed when knowledge of human evolutionary history was unclear, while more recent research has found that many human traits have emerged at different times over millions of years, rather than simultaneously due to a single evolutionary pressure. [38] Evolutionary biologist Carsten Niemitz states that he believes the AAH as expressed by Morgan didn't fulfill the criteria of a theory or a hypothesis, merely "[listing] analogies of features of savannah type mammals on the one hand and of aquatic mammals and man on the other, asking the scientific community for explanations other than a common aquatic ancestor of extant man." [15] Marc Verhaegen has also challenged the AAH as expressed by Morgan, believing the ancestors of apes as well as humans may have had their evolutionary history influenced by exposure to flooded forest environments, [70] and that based on the hominin fossil record, regular part-time underwater foraging began in the Pleistocene rather than the early Pliocene as Morgan’s model proposes. [71] In 2012 Langdon reviewed an e-book published by Bentham Science Publishers collecting 50 years of theorizing about the AAH. [72] In his review, [73] Langdon noted the lack of a single "aquatic ape hypothesis", instead there are multiple hypotheses with a common theme of evolutionary pressure due to dependence on an aquatic habitat. While original versions thought to explain an apparently substantial gap between humans and closely related common ancestors, more recent variants of these hypotheses have had to adjust to the fact that the gap was more apparent than real and the significant commonalities found between humans and other African apes. Three main strands of thought now exist regarding the AAH, varying according to when the theorized aquatic phase occurred - from the Middle Miocene to approximately three million years ago (Hardy's original model, which was based on a large gap in the fossil record that has since been filled in), from the Early Miocene when ancestral hominids were thought to wade in costal swamps and from which Homo species were thought to split off and adapt to swimming and diving (associated with the work of Marc Verhaegen), and from 200,000 years ago when exploitation of costal resources led humans out of Africa and resulted in the evolution of modern humans (associated with the work of Algis Kuliukas). Langdon notes the strong associations of humans with water, as well as the adaptability of the species to incredibly diverse ecological niches (including costal and wetland regions), both within and across lifetimes. Whether these associations define humans as "semiaquatic" or not "represents a fundamental point of departure between anthropologists and the [Aquatic Hypothesis] community." Langdon notes the three lines of evidence cited to support the AAH (comparative anatomy between humans and other semiaquatic species; hypothetical situations in which evolutionary pressure might have produced convergent evolution between humans and semiaquatic species; the ability for humans to perform various activities in the water) and concludes about these lines of evidence, [73]
Langdon criticizes the alleged "parsimony" of the AAH irrelevant as it is used to generate hypotheses about human adaptation – but does not prove them. The AAH is, like many Just So Stories in anthropology, ignored less because of prejudice than because of a lack of empirical evidence to support it, because it engages only with supporting evidence in the relevant scientific literature while ignoring the larger body of unsupporting evidence, and because its hypotheses are portrayed as "compatible with" more accepted hypotheses and thus unable to distinguish between or provide explicit evidence for the AAH. Langdon concludes his review: [73]
The authors of the volume published a reply. [74] ... End of new "Hypothesis" section draft ... |
There are a lot less variations than the possible ones that happen during evolution. It is evident that authors appear+ conditioned to assume a one off scenario as is the rule in religious literature. Nature is a lot more complex, therefore we cannot and should not ever agree on a single scenario. Adaptations happen in various ways, do not follow a straight line and can as we do know reverse as well. Millions of years mean considering a lot of different conditions and looking at any creature that had access to the oceans also a lot of space! Very likely there are many variations in aquatic adaptation including the loss of fur as I have seen a few persons not in need of much protection other than their natural coat! Personally I can add one adaptation that was assumed to counter an aquatic past; this is the effect of long time immersion on our skin. Very little effect really but for our palms and the soles of our feet, not only becoming non-slip but also ribbed . The said effect just happens to be very handy for a creature trying to walk on slippery surfaces and handle even more slippery slimy items! You are not likely to drop a glass or a fish with soaked hands! Also I wonder how many other creatures suffer from varicose veins? As a financial argh-ument; I do suggest for the savanna likers to invest in a resort in a desert. Yes we are terrestrial but we are paying for it.
AQUATICUS — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
202.89.188.117 (
talk)
23:08, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Added signatures that were not added. The diff-compare showed the 4 tildes, but the automatic signature function failed to add the signature and date to the above edits. It was probably the broken reflink which has since been fixed. Without a closing /ref, everything after the opening, including the signature tildes, was considered part of a citation.
There was also an accessibility problem with the table of contents showing sections that did not appear and which could not be accessed when the box was collapsed. There is a special template that displays headers without appearing in the TOC which solved that problem.
Happy trails... 172.162.6.235 ( talk) 14:06, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
I wan't sure if adding directly to the page would have been right , seeing the contrasting views in this talk and the fact that the theory isn't widely accepted.
Anyway I think that , at least , two claims should be added: the presence of the mammalian diving reflex , which shows that in some past we must have been at least a bit acquatic, and the high presence of some diseases , for examples myopia "In myopia, or nearsightedness, the eyeball is too long. Myopia usually starts in puberty and is more prevalent in boys. Also whales, seals and penguins are nearsighted outside the water (37-38). This is an adaptation to the refractive power of water (1.33; air, 1.00). "
THE AQUATIC APE THEORY AND SOME COMMON DISEASES M. J. B. VERHAEGEN Medical Hypotheses 24: 293-300 (1987), [3]
(i've skimmed only to the parts that interested me and a deeper analysis should be done)
-ale — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.232.231.130 ( talk) 14:04, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
In the "theoretical considerations" chapter, Langdon rightfully receive considerable space presenting his critisism of the eBook: "Was Man more aquatic in the past? Fifty years after Alister Hardy,Waterside Hypotheses of Human Evolution"
The rebuttal by Vaneechoutte and coauthors is merely referenced, however, and not stated in the text. This seems unbalanced. Unless challenged here, I will integrate some of the rebuttals from this reference in the "Theoretical considerations" chapter in a point-by-point style within next week.
Yours, PhD Frank Helle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FrankHansen99 ( talk • contribs) 10:04, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
The section which describes the wading hypothesis of bipedal origins needs improving in my opinion. It is currently rather vague in what it is supposed to be describing, it does not list the strongest arguments in favour of the idea and gives some pretty weak counter-arguments without any caveats.
They key observation in its favour is that all extant great apes that are quadrupedal on dry land will switch to bipedalism in waist deep water with 100% reliability. This will be bipedal locomotion, not just posture, it will be without any support of the forelimbs and will continue for as long as the conditions prevail. No other scenario will induce Pan, Gorilla or Pongo to move bipedally so easily or predictably and this is not true of any other mammalian taxon. Moving bipedally in waist deep water provides the simplest, most clear cut survival benefit imaginable - the animal can continue to breath.
The counter argument listed in the article that "bipedalism also gives many advantages on land, particularly lower energy expenditure and the ability of long-distance running—which humans do better than most terrestrial mammals" is weak. The energy efficiency only really works in flat, firm, vegetation-free substrates (e.g. on a dried out river bed or on a sandy beach right by the water's edge) and the ER hypothesis has a number of substantial problems (e.g. predation, how to replace water loss and the role of women and infants.)
The argument that "the AAH suggest that bipedalism is disadvantageous when comparing humans to medium-sized, terrestrial quadrupeds" is a red-herring invented by John Langdon, cherry picked from one of Elaine Morgan's books. Most waterside proponents today do not depend on that argument and would argue that the LCA of humans and chimps were wading-climbing apes exhibiting some kind of bipedalism, but not the current modern energy-efficient kind. To argue for early brachiation as the primary driver of bipedalism does not explain why chimps and gorillas and (to a lesser extent) orang utans reverted to quadrupedalism. The wading hypothesis answers this point easily.
The argument that "the elongated lower limbs of humans, which is explained by AAH proponents as improving swimming speeds" is a misrepresentation. Only a few proponents hold that view.
It is correct to say that "there is no single accepted explanation for human bipedalism" but a more scholarly list (of over 30+) of them could be provided. The wading hypothesis compares favourably with most of them as shown here.
A paper on the Wading Hypotheses of Human Bipedal Origins was recently published in the journal Human Evolution.
Abstract
At least 30 or so distinct ideas have been published in the scientific literature since the time of Charles Darwin pertaining to the origin of human bipedal locomotion and attempting to explain it in evolutionary terms. Some of them overlap and are complementary, whilst others vary widely and are contradictory. Each of them has strengths and weaknesses but there have been no published attempts at objectively comparing and evaluating them. Their popularity, or otherwise, according to the way they are presented in university texts, appears to be largely a matter of what is currently appealing to authorities of the day. One idea that has never been popular is the Wading Hypothesis. Here the idea is described in detail, discussed, assessed and objectively compared to other ideas, including those that are de rigeur today. Contrary to the mainstream view in anthropology today, it is argued here that there is nothing in the literature that adequately rejects the wading hypothesis, and that it is actually one of the strongest ideas yet proposed, deserving far more serious attention than it has been afforded to date. A “River Apes … Coastal People” wading model is introduced. This three-phased model of the evolution of human bipedality proposes a wading-climbing Last Common Ancestor of Gorilla-Pan-Homo (LCA-GPH), a seasonally flooded gallery forest habitat for the evolution of hominin bipedality, and a largely coastal foraging phase to optimise our modern efficient, striding gait.
Kuliukas, A.V. Wading Hypotheses of the Origin of Human Bipedalism. Human Evolution 28 (3-4):213-236, (2013).
AlgisKuliukas ( talk) 05:02, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
It says in the section on Westenhöfer's original draft of the AAH that he was "influenced by German National Socialism". No support for this statement is offered. Moreover, the article on Westenhöfer himself says little about his political views, but as he is stated to have influenced S. Allende, and was very concerned with the social conditions in Chile, he does not appear to have been too far right-wing. I don't know about the Anglo-Saxon discourse, but in Germany, linking somebody or something with National Socialism is a cheap, stupid, but fully effective way of discrediting him or it. Thus, mentioning the alleged influence in the beginning of the article is apt to prejudice the reader against the hypothesis from the start. This is even more deplorable if the claim should be wrong. I therefore suggest to either substantiate or remove this phrase. Konrad Lehmann ( talk) 09:37, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Here is a popular article with new support for the aquatic ape hypothesis from genetics and paleoanthropology.
http://boingboing.net/2009/12/16/how-shellfish-saved.html
http://boingboing.net/2009/12/16/how-shellfish-saved.html
Elemming ( talk) 15:35, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Wow. Someone has really made a butchery of Wikipedia standards. At least a quarter of this article should be edited out to remove the obvious biases against this theory and get a NPOV. Elemming ( talk) 15:42, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
The page could really do with a timeline of when each feature ascribed to the hypothesis (flooding of the Afar triangle, bipedalism, descending larynx, enlarging brain, reduction in hair, lowering density of the skeleton, etc) is known to have occurred, to see which - if any - occurred roughly at the same time as each other. If there's little or no overlap in the date ranges, then the hypothesis would seem severely weakened, though the "Waterside development" angle wouldn't be completely ruled out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DewiMorgan ( talk • contribs) 09:38, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Suggested revision
|
---|
Let's have a little fun with the denier. Please explain again just how the below version is POV-pushing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CEngelbrecht ( talk • contribs) 19:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC) ![]() ![]() The aquatic ape hypothesis (AAH) or aquatic ape theory (AAT) is a hypothesis about human evolution which posits that the ancestors of modern humans spent a period of time adapting to a semiaquatic existence. [75] [72] AAH emerged from the observation that some anatomical and physiological traits that set humans apart from other primates have parallels in aquatic mammals. The hypothesis was first proposed by German pathologist Max Westenhöfer in 1942, and then independently by English marine biologist Alister Hardy in 1960. After Hardy, the most prominent proponent was Welsh writer Elaine Morgan, who has written several books on the topic. AAH is not accepted among the mainstream explanations of human evolution. Scientific consensus states that humans first evolved during a period of rapid climate fluctuation between wet and dry, and that most of the adaptations that distinguish humans from the great apes are adaptations to a terrestrial, as opposed to an earlier, arboreal environment. Few paleoanthropologists have explicitly evaluated AAH in scientific journals, and those that have reviewed the hypothesis have been critical. An extensive criticism appeared in a peer reviewed paper by John H. Langdon in 1997. [25] Langdon states that the AAH is one of many hypotheses attempting to explain human evolution through a single causal mechanism, and that the evolutionary fossil record does not support such a proposal; that the hypothesis is internally inconsistent, has less explanatory power than its proponents claim, and that alternative terrestrial hypotheses are much better supported. AAH is popular among laypeople and has continued support by a minority of scholars. Langdon attributes this to the attraction of simplistic single-cause theories over the much more complex, but better supported models with multiple causality. History
The German pathologist Max Westenhöfer (1871–1957) can be said to have worded an early version of AAH, which he labeled "the aquatile man" (German: Aquatile Mensch), which he described in several publications during the 1930s and 1940's. Westenhöfer was partially influenced by contemporary German National Socialism and disputed Charles Darwin's theory on the kinship between modern man and the great apes. As part of a complex and unique presentation of human evolution, he argued that a number of traits in modern humans derived from a fully aquatic existence in the open seas, and that humans only in recent times returned to land. In 1942, he stated: "The postulation of an aquatic mode of life during an early stage of human evolution is a tenable hypothesis, for which further inquiry may produce additional supporting evidence." [76] Westenhöfer’s aquatic thesis suffered from a number of inconsistencies and contradictions, and consequently he abandoned the concept in his writings on human evolution around the end of the Second World War. [77] Independently and ignorant of Westenhöfer's writings, marine biologist Alister Hardy (1896-1985) had since 1930 also hypothesized, that humans may have had ancestors more aquatic than previously imagined, although his work conversely was rooted in the Darwin consensus. As a young academic with a hypothesis belonging to a topic outside his field, and because he was aware of its inherent controversy, Hardy delayed reporting his idea for some thirty years. After he had become a respected academic and knighted for contributions to marine biology, Hardy finally voiced his thoughts in a speech to the British Sub-Aqua Club in Brighton on 5 March 1960. Several national newspapers reported distorted versions of Hardy's ideas, which he countered by explaining them more fully in an article in New Scientist on 17 March 1960. [78] Hardy defined his idea:
The idea received some interest after the article was published, [79] but was generally ignored by the scientific community thereafter. In 1967, the hypothesis was briefly mentioned in The Naked Ape, a book by Desmond Morris (1928–) in which can be found the first use of the term "aquatic ape". [80] While doing research for her book "The Descent of Woman" published in 1972, a book inspired by reading Morris' The Naked Ape, TV-writer Elaine Morgan (1920-2013 [81]) was struck by the potential explanatory power of Hardy's hypothesis. While elaborating on Hardy's suggestion, Morgan also sought to challenge what she considered a masculine domination of the debate on human evolution, and the satirical book became an international bestseller, making Morgan a popular figure in feminist movements and on various TV talkshows in, for example, the United States. Conversely, her scientific contributions, including her elaboration on Hardy's aquatic humans was effectively ignored by anthropology. Morgan has since been the force majeure behind the development of Hardy's original idea, which after a number of publications culminated in 1997 with the book "The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis", which, with its now more factual language and proper referencing, was aimed primarily at the academic community. [75] [82] In 1987 a symposium was held in Valkenburg, the Netherlands, to debate the pros and cons of AAH. The proceedings of the symposium were published in 1991 with the title "Aquatic Ape: Fact or fiction?". [83] The chief editor summarized the results of the symposium as failing to support the idea that human ancestors were aquatic, but there is also some evidence that they may have swum and fed in inland lakes and rivers, with the result that modern humans can enjoy brief periods of time spent in the water. [84] Weaker versions of the hypothesis suggesting littoral feeding and wading rather than strong aquatic adaptation have since been proposed. These weaker versions of the hypothesis have not yet been scientifically explored. [15] The context of the initial presentations of AAH (a popular essay and a political text) diverted attention away from the possible scientific merits of the hypothesis. Most paleoanthropologists reject the AAH; [25] [13] [85] [86] but it has never been seriously scrutinized and discussed within the field of paleoanthropology. [25] Hypothesis
Anthropological consensus on human evolution
![]() ![]() Modern humans, Homo sapiens, developed from earlier forms found as fossils at various locations around the world, seeing an early concentration in East Africa. Other remnants from early humans such as tools, foods, dwellings, etc., have also been detected. Combined, these finds present a partial image of the process, that developed the species Homo sapiens. [87] From the collective work of anthropology, and in later years also genetics, established consensus states, that humans belong in the biological tribe Hominini, this in the family of Hominidae (the great apes), this in the order of primates, this in the class of mammals. Humans are closely related to, in order of closest kinship, the great ape genera chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, and further distant the family of gibbons. Hominini includes the subtribe Australopithecina with the genera Sahelanthropus, Orrorin, Ardipithecus, Paranthropus, Australopithecines; and the subtribe Hominina, encompassing the genus Homo, some of its species being Homo habilis, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, the Neanderthals and modern humans, the latter being the only extant species. [2] There is still some uncertainty about the interrelation between the known Hominin fossils; new finds can still drastically rewrite the human family tree, most recently with Sahelanthropus. Contemporary anthropology estimates, that the direct ancestors of modern humans split from a common ancestor to chimpanzees somewhere between 4 and 8 million years ago in Africa; the fossil ape Sahelanthropus tchadensis which lived some 7 million years ago in Chad is considered the earliest possible homininin. [88] Since the breakthrough of Darwin and Wallace's theory of evolution in the 19th century, it has been heavily debated why humans have features that distinguish them from their nearest evolutionary relatives; most notably by being near-furless, employing upright bipedal stance on their hind limbs, and having the perhaps most complex brain in the animal kingdom. A wide range of difficult to corroborate hypotheses have been presented as to the evolutionary background of the unique features of modern humans; for human bipedalism e.g. altered carrying behavior, improved energy efficiency, improved thermal regulation, altered social behavior and increased dominance behavior. [89] The human split from the lineage of the chimpanzees is linked to the geological formation of the East African mountain range Great Rift Valley that extends from Djibouti to Mozambique. In this region are found many of the key fossils of the earliest hominins, leaving it to be considered the cradle of humanity. The most widely considered hypothesis is that woodland dwelling, brachiating hominoids, specifically on the eastern side of the mountain range, gradually lost their habitat to more open areas, for instance grasslands, and that this and other changes forced these hominoids to develop the shapes, that gradually resulted in modern humans. [90] In recent decades, the traditional image of human origin having taken place in grasslands (e.g. the African savannah) has been challenged, since particularly the oldest homininin fossils are found alongside fossilized fauna and flora from traditional woodland habitats, rather than from grasslands, e.g. the some 4.4 million year old fossil Ardi, an Ardipithecus ramidus. [6] The basis of AAH
AAH suggests that many features that distinguish humans from their nearest evolutionary relatives emerged because the ancestors of humans underwent a period when they were adapting to an aquatic or semi-aquatic way of life, but returned to terrestrial life before having become fully adapted to the aquatic environment. Variations within the hypothesis suggests these protohumans to have spent time either wading, swimming or diving on the shores of fresh, brackish or saline waters and feeding on littoral resources. [7] Key arguments have been developed and presented by Elaine Morgan since 1972, these based on the original suggestion of Alister Hardy. In later years, other contributors have further developed the aquatic ideas, some of which differ heavily from the original "aquatic ape" of Hardy et Morgan. The term waterside hypotheses of human evolution has been coined by AAH-proponent Algis Kuliukas to collectively represent this diversity, of which AAH is only one such hypothesis. Most traits perceived as aquatic are physiological and biochemical, while few are behavioral ( ethological). The time frame for the origin og possible termination of such an aquatic existence also differs between proponents, or though the same time frame as anthropological consensus is generally followed. In most cases, this aquaticism is perceived as having been instigated by selective pressure around the split of the last common ancestor between humans and chimpanzees. [91] The Belgian physician Marc Verhaegen has presented a unique variation of AAH, where semiaquatic traits is argued to be evident even before the split between humans and chimpanzees, this in Dryopithecus-like apes between 15 to 7 million years ago, which at that time had migrated from rain forests in Africa to then tropical rainforests around the Tethys Sea, the Mediterranean and across Southern Asia. At the end of this warmer period, the ancestors of orangutans is said to have migrated into South East Asia, while the ancestors of humans, chimps and gorillas migrated back into Africa, evolving into their present forms; chimps and gorillas becoming more land locked, while humans developed aquatic traits. Verhaegen also argues, that human aquaticism reached its peak with Homo erectus some 2-1 million years ago, this observed by e.g. thickened erectus bones, labeled pachyosteosclerosis, which is argued as having convergence during e.g. whale evolution from land to aquatic forms. Verhaegen further argues, that human aquaticism originally developed in tropical mangrove or seasonally flooded woodland, this based on the flora and fauna found alongside the earliest hominin fossils, a phenomenon he labels aquarborealism. [92] The argued degree of human aquaticism varies amongst proponents, however the vast majority argues a semiaquatic ape on par with e.g. hippos and sea otters. Very few have argued a fully aquatic stage on par with e.g. whales or pinnipeds, and this is rejected by the majority, including Morgan. Some pseudoscientific and cryptozoologic speculations have made use of parts of the AAH argumentation, e.g. the claimed existence of mermaids, [93] [94] but this is also rejected by proponents, including Morgan. [95] While most proto-human fossil sites are associated with wet conditions upon the death of the hominins, this is not seen as unequivocal evidence for the AAH, since being buried in waterside sediment is one of the rare situations in which fossilization is likely to occur (labeled preservation bias); paleontologists are aware of this preservation bias and expect fossils to be located at such sediments. [13] [14] Physiological and biochemical claims
![]()
![]() ![]()
![]()
Ethological claims
![]()
Other claims
Rare presented AAH-arguments points to the human tendency to watery psychic tears, and also sweat to cool down, where Morgan has withdrawn previous arguments, seeing that horses is a rare mammal species to also sweat profusely. [125] It is occasionally argued, that humans compared to other apes have reduced olfaction, with claimed convergences observed in other aquatics, e.g. whales; that the protuding human nose would be adapted to keep splashes out of nasal cavities, arguing the semiaquatic proboscis monkey or semiaquatic tapirs as possible convergences; the tendency of partial to full baldness in men; the tendency for human obesity; [53] and that human kidneys are better suited for excretion of salt than other apes. [126] Such arguments are generally considered more speculative and is often heavily critized. Theoretical considerations
![]() ![]() The AAH has been criticized for containing multiple inconsistencies and lacking evidence from the fossil record to support its claims [25] [14] [63] (Morgan, for instance, failed to discuss any fossils found after 1960 and much of her analysis is by comparing soft tissues between humans and aquatic species). [25] It is also described as lacking parsimony, despite purporting to be a simple theory uniting many of the unique anatomical features of humans. [25] Anthropologist John D. Hawks expresses the view that rather than explaining human traits simply and parsimoniously, it actually requires two explanations for each trait - first that proximity to water drove human evolution enough to significantly change the human phenotype and second that there was significant evolutionary pressure beyond mere phylogenetic inertia to maintain these traits (which would not be adaptive on dry land) and points out that exaptation is not an adequate reply. Hawks concludes by saying:
Ellen White describes Morgan's work as failing to be empirical, not addressing evidence that contradicts the hypothesis, relying on comparative anatomy rather than selection pressure, not predicting any new evidence and failing to address its own shortcomings. White stated that while the hypothesis had the scientific characteristics of explanatory power and public debate, the only reason it has received any actual scholarly attention is due to its public appeal, ultimately concluding the AAH was unscientific. [65] Others have similarly noted the AAH "is more an exercise in comparative anatomy than a theory supported by data." [66] Though describing the hypothesis as plausible, Henry Gee went on to criticize it for being untestable, as most of the evolutionary adaptations described by Morgan would not have fossilized. Gee also stated that, while purely aquatic mammals such as whales show strong skeletal evidence of adaptation to water, humans and human fossils lack such adaptations (a comment made by others as well [14]); that there are many hypothetical and equally plausible scenarios explaining the unique characteristics of human adaptation without involving an aquatic phase of evolution; and that proponents are basing arguments about past adaptations on present physiology, when humans are not significantly aquatic. [127] There is ultimately only circumstantial evidence to suggest, and no solid evidence to support the AAH. [68] [128] ScienceBlogs author Greg Laden has described the AAH as a "human evolution theory of everything" that attempts to explain all anatomical and physiological features of humans and is correct in some areas only by chance. Laden also states that the AAH was proposed when knowledge of human evolutionary history was unclear, while more recent research has found that many human traits have emerged at different times over millions of years, rather than simultaneously due to a single evolutionary pressure. [38] Evolutionary biologist Carsten Niemitz states that he believes the AAH as expressed by Morgan didn't fulfill the criteria of a theory or a hypothesis, merely "[listing] analogies of features of savannah type mammals on the one hand and of aquatic mammals and man on the other, asking the scientific community for explanations other than a common aquatic ancestor of extant man." [15] Marc Verhaegen has also challenged the AAH as expressed by Morgan, believing the ancestors of apes as well as humans may have had their evolutionary history influenced by exposure to flooded forest environments, [70] and that based on the hominin fossil record, regular part-time underwater foraging began in the Pleistocene rather than the early Pliocene as Morgan’s model proposes. [71] In 2012 Langdon reviewed an e-book published by Bentham Science Publishers collecting 50 years of theorizing about the AAH. [72] In his review, [73] Langdon noted the lack of a single "aquatic ape hypothesis", instead there are multiple hypotheses with a common theme of evolutionary pressure due to dependence on an aquatic habitat. While original versions thought to explain an apparently substantial gap between humans and closely related common ancestors, more recent variants of these hypotheses have had to adjust to the fact that the gap was more apparent than real and the significant commonalities found between humans and other African apes. Three main strands of thought now exist regarding the AAH, varying according to when the theorized aquatic phase occurred - from the Middle Miocene to approximately three million years ago (Hardy's original model, which was based on a large gap in the fossil record that has since been filled in), from the Early Miocene when ancestral hominids were thought to wade in costal swamps and from which Homo species were thought to split off and adapt to swimming and diving (associated with the work of Marc Verhaegen), and from 200,000 years ago when exploitation of costal resources led humans out of Africa and resulted in the evolution of modern humans (associated with the work of Algis Kuliukas). Langdon notes the strong associations of humans with water, as well as the adaptability of the species to incredibly diverse ecological niches (including costal and wetland regions), both within and across lifetimes. Whether these associations define humans as "semiaquatic" or not "represents a fundamental point of departure between anthropologists and the [Aquatic Hypothesis] community." Langdon notes the three lines of evidence cited to support the AAH (comparative anatomy between humans and other semiaquatic species; hypothetical situations in which evolutionary pressure might have produced convergent evolution between humans and semiaquatic species; the ability for humans to perform various activities in the water) and concludes about these lines of evidence, [73]
Langdon criticizes the alleged "parsimony" of the AAH irrelevant as it is used to generate hypotheses about human adaptation – but does not prove them. The AAH is, like many Just So Stories in anthropology, ignored less because of prejudice than because of a lack of empirical evidence to support it, because it engages only with supporting evidence in the relevant scientific literature while ignoring the larger body of unsupporting evidence, and because its hypotheses are portrayed as "compatible with" more accepted hypotheses and thus unable to distinguish between or provide explicit evidence for the AAH. Langdon concludes his review: [73]
The authors of the volume published a reply. [129] Reception
The AAH has received little serious attention or acceptance from mainstream paleoanthropologists, [13] [86] [130] [131] has been met with significant skepticism [131] [132] and is not considered a strong scientific hypothesis. [13] [66] The AAH does not appear to have passed the peer review process, and despite Morgan being praised by various scholars, none of her work has appeared in any academic journals of anthropology or related disciplines. [65] The AAH is thought by some anthropologists to be accepted readily by popular audiences, students and non-specialist scholars because of its simplicity. [25] In 1987 a symposium was held in Valkenburg, the Netherlands, titled "Aquatic Ape: Fact or fiction?", which published its proceedings in 1991. [83] A review of Morgan's book The Scars of Evolution stated that it did not address the central questions of anthropology – how the human and chimpanzee gene lines diverged – which was why it was ignored by the scholarly community. The review also stated that Morgan ignored the fossil record and skirted the absence of evidence that australopithecine underwent any adaptations to water, making the hypothesis impossible to validate from fossils. [63] Morgan has claimed the AAH was rejected for a variety of reasons unrelated to its explanatory power: old academics were protecting their careers, sexism on the part of male researchers, and her status as a non-academic intruding on academic debates. Despite modifications to the hypothesis and occasional forays into scientific conferences, the AAH has neither been accepted as a mainstream theory nor managed to venture a genuine challenge to orthodox theories of human evolution. [133] Morgan's critics have claimed that the appeal of AAH can be explained in several ways: [25]
John D. Hawks, along with PZ Myers and fellow ScienceBlogs paleontologist Greg Laden recommend the website "Aquatic Ape Theory: Sink or Swim?" by Jim Moore as a resource on the topic. [38] [134] Conversely, Elaine Morgan and Algis Kuliukas have critisized Jim Moore for heavily distorting in particular Morgan's arguments, this with very little use of references. [135] [136] Anthropologist Colin Groves has stated that Morgan's theories are sophisticated enough that they should be taken seriously as a possible explanation for hominin divergence [137] and Carsten Niemitz has found more recent, weaker versions of the hypothesis more acceptable, approaching some of his own theories on human evolution. [15] In a 2012 paper, anthropologist Philip Tobias noted that rejection of the AAH led to stigmatization of a spectrum of topics related to the evolution of humans and their interaction with water. The result of this bias, in his and co-authors' opinions, was an incomplete reconstruction of human evolution within varied landscapes. [138] See also
Footnotes
External links
{{Link FA|hu}} |
References
signing (with falsified date to match original end of discussion) for archiver. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 06:06, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
"Rarely presented AAH arguments point to the human tendency to produce watery psychic tears". Watery psychic tears? As opposed to tears that are not watery and do not have the ability to read minds? I'm guessing that the word "psychic" here is intended to mean something like "generated by the psyche" - i.e. emotion - but it's not the best choice of words. It's also not very clear what this argument actually is. Why is crying only possible is you evolve in water? Is the argument that the body would not adapt to unnecessarily lose a precious resource such as water unless it evolved in conditions in which water was plentiful? This needs some context as well as clarification. Paul B ( talk) 13:43, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
This article is horribly dated and biased. The AAT of today is far different than what Hardy presented or what Elaine Morgan promoted. As there remains such controversy on the subject I would like to suggest the following solution:
Establish 2 pages, one Anti AAT and one Pro AAT. Allow the two sides to separately present their evidence and arguments in a thoughtful and respectful manner. As for the current article, it could either be deleted or used as the anti view.
205.167.128.152 ( talk) 18:01, 7 June 2015 (UTC)GCJ
Not surprising to hear that. Sad that dialogue is being discouraged. BTW, Neil, are you a WIKI Administrator?
205.167.128.152 ( talk) 19:38, 7 June 2015 (UTC)GCJ
I have uncited the word to word [4] duplication from BBC article. [5] Please research, there can be more. VandVictory ( talk) 03:37, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Another one, [6] was not different to [7] VandVictory ( talk) 04:22, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
[8] not different to [9] VandVictory ( talk) 09:50, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
It's so sad because there is no opportunity for AAT supporters to really explain the theory properly. Most of the scepticism comes from not fully understanding the idea, and there is no hope for us to change this article to what we really think when there are people out there wishing to paint us as Nazis. I couldn't even add a link to wiki's own page on the dive reflex. I can only imagine that this must have been the sorrow once faced by Darwin, when the theory of evolution was first met with so much resistance. It leaves a little glimmer of hope that as the outdated references quotes in the article start to gather dust along with their writers, more open-minded people willing to listen to reason rather than positing their opinions as fact will one day be listened to. Wikipaedia editors themselves clearly are interested in this topic - since they featured it on their home page no less than three times! Maybe this was the mistake, because it only drew the article to the attention of fierce opponents who so vehemently believe that this is a "Just So" story? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquapess ( talk • contribs) 20:43, 15 May 2015
A wiki page about the Aquatic Ape theory that doesn't allow any valid Aquatic Ape Theory information or valid references seems strange. What would be the harm in allowing a few real references and adding description of the opposing theories? After the theory is proven fact, then more rigorous requirements could be used before allowing editing.
.
My following sample needs a complete rewrite, but something like:
.
Aquatic Ape Theory pseudoscience: When Pan and Humans split, Pan stayed in the jungle but humans moved to edges of rivers, lakes, and oceans. Humans adapted to waterside life and many humans still live near bodies of water.
.
Savanna Proven Fact science: When Pan and Humans split, Pan stayed in the jungle but humans moved to the savanna. Humans adapted to savanna life but later lost most of the adaptations so do not often live on savannas. Humans only recently moved to be near bodies of water in the last few years with no adaptations.
Somitcw (
talk)
19:10, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Guy, please be clearer on what you guess is "That is categorically false.".
Is it that negative people twist the Aquatic Ape Theory into invalid weirdness just to be able to dispute the weirdness that they invented?
Is it that "Aquatic Ape Theory pseudoscience" is only pseudoscience because people with a negative point of view rewrite it to make it appear to be pseudoscience?
Is it that "Savanna Proven Fact science" has no relation with science?
Is the fix to let people that understand AAT delete the hateful AAT article and rewrite from scratch using valid facts about what the theory is?
So many questions to your one incomplete comment. Sorry.
Somitcw (
talk)
19:49, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Sorry TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom. I had assumed that Wikipedia articles should contain some truth instead being all distorted information and negative innuendos. My bad.
I wonder why Guy didn't answer?
Somitcw (
talk)
20:47, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
Aquapess is attempting to insert this: {{cquote|Despite this, the central idea of this theory has recently received more attention, and has even gained support from Sir David Attenborough at a recent conference at the Royal Marsden Hospital ("Human Evolution Past, Present and Future - Anthropological, Medical and Nutritional Considerations", 2013). [1] [2]
Let's discuss what to do with this text. I think the 2013 conference should probably be mentioned in the article, but it was of course organized by AAH proponents and did not have any significant participation by mainstream paleoanthropologists, and the 2011 book to my knowledge has only received one negative review by Langdon, who was also the only opponent of the theory present at the conference. We would need some third party coverage of the conference to assess its general reception, and we would also need to include Langdon's counter arguments. I am unsure about what relevance Attenborough's support has, if we start including namedropping then to avoid giving it undue prominence we would probably need a list of similar people opposing the theory - which would of course be longer. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 19:02, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Two of the references you added do not include the words "David Attenborough", so I'm not sure how they are relevant. Granted, one of them gives links to a Guardian piece on the topic
[3], which is actually a well-balanced article attempting to show facts without taking sides.
One of the references you used was a personal piece written by a Nature editor who clearly just wanted to advertise his book, and another one was a blog. It's quite easy to find a blog that agrees with whatever stance you have, so I'm also not clear how that is substantial support for the aquatic ape theory being "wrong".
Lastly, your use of "International Business Times" as a reference is very interesting indeed, especially since one of the criticisms of the AAT is that "only non-specialists" support it. I didn't realise that IBT was a specialist in Palaeoanthropology. I agree, the Daily Mail does peddle some garbage, but at least I was only using it as a national news source to report a factual event, and not as a means to either prove or disprove the theory. Having said that, at least IBT correctly reported that:
Conference chairman Professor Rhys Evans, a surgeon at the Royal Marsden Hospital, said: "We are trying to discuss the pros and cons of the theory. But many of the things which are unique to humans - such as a descended larynx, walking upright, fat beneath the skin, and most obviously an extremely large brain - it seems can best be accounted for as adaptations to extended periods in an aquatic environment."
The issue here isn't whether people agree or disagree with people like David Attenborough or Professor Rhys Evans, but rather that the statement at the end of the opening paragraph is now out of date:
popularity of the idea with non-experts
and a later derogatory comment
The AAH is thought by some anthropologists to be accepted readily by popular audiences, students and non-specialist scholars because of its simplicity
Langdon may have thought this in 1997 (the reference used to support these statement), it is now 2015, and more and more educated people are coming to the conclusion that water likely played a significant part in human evolution, including high ranking medical professors and someone who, yes, may be a broadcaster, but has had lifelong contributions as presenter in the service of science, has first hand experience with, chimps, gorillas and orangutans as well as aquatic mammals throughout his long-spanning career, as well as others in the palaoanthropology field, such as Chris Stringer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquapess ( talk • contribs)
Aquapess ( talk) 17:47, 3 June 2015 (UTC)"As I discuss (with tongue firmly in cheek) in my forthcoming book The Accidental Species,"
"The idea that people went through an aquatic phase at some time in their evolutionary past is currently undergoing a popular resurgence (see Foley & Lahr[1]). This idea has even started to gain some traction in more learned circles; the late paleoanthropologist Phillip Tobias wrote in support of aspects of it in an edited e-book[2] and a conference on the topic held recently in London was endorsed by celebrities such as the television presenter Sir David Attenborough.[3] Despite (or perhaps because of) the lack of interest within the academic community, advocates of the concept continue to fill the media with challenges to the “savannah hypothesis” of the origins of people and to bemoan the fact that their views are not taken seriously by mainstream academia."
Seems like you guys want to brush Rae and Koppe (2014) under the carpet Aquapess ( talk) 12:44, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
References
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
(
help)
{{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
{{
cite book}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
People will probably not like a YouTube video as a source, but here is a National Geographic clip, See How Easily a Rat Can Wriggle Up Your Toilet. National Geographic says that rats can hold their breath for up to three minutes underwater and they have the stamina to tread water for three days straight. Stoodpointt ( talk) 10:02, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
This article uses Langdon's (1997) JHE paper, as it's most authoritative source. This is probably because it remains the only serious critique to be published in a 1st class palaeoanthropological journal. (Foley & Lahr's 2014 4 page critique notwithstanding.) All over the article, arguments from Langdon are cited, as if this was the definitive last word on the matter. This would be fair if a citation was also given to the published critique of Langdon's paper.
Kuliukas AV, (2011). Langdon’s Critique of the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis: It’s Final Refutation, or Just Another Misunderstanding?. In: Vaneechoutte M, Verhaegen M, Kuliukas AV, (eds.), (2011). Was Man More Aquatic In The Past? Fifty Years After Alister Hardy: Waterside Hypothesis Of Human Evolution. Bentham (Basel)
Abstract: Thus far, there has been no challenge to Langdon’s 1997 critique [1]of the aquatic ape hypothesis (AAH), despite its having a number of weaknesses. The paper lacks scholarliness as it does not draw upon the one published scientific investigation into the plausibility of the AAH in the literature, i.e., that byRoede et al. [2]. Langdon’s summary of “anatomical evidence for the AAH” seems to have been directed against an exaggerated interpretation of Alister Hardy’s hypothesis that humans were “more aquatic in the past” [3]. Most of the critique was based on cursory and superficial comparisons with fully aquatic mammals, such as cetaceans, rather than considering whether human ancestors could have been more aquatic than those of apes. Even on this basis, Langdon considered eleven out of twenty-six traits to be “possible aquatic adaptations” or “consistent with the AAH”.
Foley & Lahr (2014) has also been critiqued...
Kuliukas, AV Removing the “hermetic seal” from the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis: Waterside Hypotheses of Human Evolution. Advances in Anthropology 4:164-167, (2014).
The current (March/April 2014) issue of Evolutionary Anthropology is rare in that it contains two papers specifically critiquing the so-called “aquatic ape hypothesis” (abbreviated “AAH”, but better labelled, in the plural, “waterside hypotheses of human evolution.”). The first (Foley & Lahr, 2014) is a general assessment of the authors’ interpretation of the AAH and the second (Rae & Koppe, 2014) is a particular rebuttal of one specific idea—the sinuses for floatation hypothesis. This short paper is a response to both. It is argued that the first uses a straw man’s argument to characterize the so-called “AAH” as arguing for exclusively more aquatic adaptations than waterside proponents have in the past. Foley & Lahr’s paper is also unscholarly in that it does not draw upon the latest scholarly work. One chapter of that work re-defines and re-labels the “AAH”, which was of key importance to their paper. Rae & Koppe’s paper is harder to criticize but still contains some problems which the authors overlook in their strict rejection of the sinuses for floatation hypothesis. If one understands that waterside hypotheses of human evolution are simply postulating that major phenotypic differences between humans and chimps are the result of a (perhaps slight) differential in the selection from wading, swimming and diving, they cannot be ridiculed as belonging in the same “crazy box” as creationism as Henry Gee recently argued and must take their place within mainstream physical anthropology.
AlgisKuliukas ( talk) 23:47, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Aquatic ape hypothesis. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 18:38, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello,
It's great that we have a picture for finger wrinkling on the page, but I realised that there is actually no text to explain the relevance of this feature to AAT. Normally images accompany text to demonstrate something, but in this case, there's an image just floating in the "other claims" section with no information about this interesting topic, and as a result it looks a bit clumsy and disorganised. Conversely, the Wikipaedia page for fingers actually has a great and balanced section describing this interesting nervous system response. It's not simply just cells swelling in response to water exposure, which would happen all over our bodies if that was the case; and it has been known for some time that damage to nerves eliminates this response. [1] So I propose to add something like this under the physiological and biochemical claims if that is ok?
Many thanks for your considered and polite reply Dmcq. So basically, the IFLS reference which DOES specify link to AAT doesn't count I gather, so it wouldn't be possible to paraphrase to something like:
I have shortened it, and put both sides forward, with no leaning towards either side. Aquapess ( talk) 20:35, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
Er, Occam's razor, anyone? Viriditas ( talk) 22:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Is there a specific edit to the article someone wishes to propose? Otherwise this appears clearly to be WP:NOTFORUM and should be closed. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:55, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Do editorial changes have to be specific? Or can the general thrust of the article be discussed? Isn't the discussion about what the point of view of the article should be? Should the article help pooh-pooh the theory? Or strike a more neutral tone? 173.173.20.99 ( talk) 04:45, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Another example of revolutionary change in scientific orthodoxy is plate tectonics. lack of an overt statement that AAH must be wrong because the scientific consensus says so, does not alter the fact that that is at least part of the overall thrust of the article as it now stands. The Occam's razor point seems a strong one to me. And being grumpy and disappointed is in itself not an argument ... so my children often tell me, anyway ... 80.17.36.33 ( talk) 13:53, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
This article is outdated both in its name and approach. I have just listened to part 1 of a BBC radio 4 programme at [14] by David Attenborough, which states that it is now called the "Waterside ape theory", and is increasingly accepted by mainstream scientists. (Part 2 of the radio program on the latest evidence is tomorrow 15 September.) The subject is outside my field, but is very important in human evolution and badly needs rewriting by someone competent. Dudley Miles ( talk) 09:11, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Beginning to collate a list, and great to see that “At the heart of science is an essential tension between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counter-intuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.” is still relevent! Edmund Patrick – confer 10:12, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
is this what you are looking for? Hopefully others will add and it will at least improve the article. Edmund Patrick – confer 10:55, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you Dudley Miles for the work in providing a informative description of the second episode. It is true that the article is not neutral in its words and presentation, though like you there is limitations to what I can do, and I would have an axe to grind, mainly the total denial of any possibility of this theory being correct or partly correct and given obviously the number of scientists and/or professors that have just committed a foolish mistake of expressing support for parts of the theory I am not alone. It has and I am sure will continue to lead to wonderful evening conversations with fellow workers especially archaeologists! Once I have finished my work on Mathew Hopkins and Edmund the Martyr I may well take a deep breath and..... Edmund Patrick – confer 12:29, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
The sentence "Conversely, both Morgan and Algis Kuliukas have accused Moore of distorting Morgan and other AAH-proponents presentations from the debate, using only little referencing" is followed by two citations. The first of these needs to be removed. When I clicked on it, my browser left a message stating, "The site ahead contains malware Attackers currently on www.elainemorgan.me.uk might attempt to install dangerous programs on your computer that steal or delete your information (for example, photos, passwords, messages, and credit cards)." FreeKnowledgeCreator ( talk) 10:03, 15 September 2016 (UTC)