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I propose that the Honorable Judge Mary Yu be added to the list. She holds the judicial record for most marriages officiated by a judge in Washington State, and also performed the state's first same-sex marriage. She already has a wikipedia page of her own that could be linked! 131.229.236.145 ( talk) 02:00, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
He doesn’t make outs 98.234.136.216 ( talk) 01:21, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
@ JesseRafe: on your removal of Peter Crouch from the inaptronym section, that's not the contention being made. It's there because it is considered, by two reliable sources, to be an inapt name. Much like Rob Banks (policeman) wouldn't be removed because "policeman" isn't the opposite of "robbing banks", removing Crouch because his surname doesn't directly contradict his height isn't a good decision, imv. Again, we have two reliable sources describing it as an inaptronym. I urge you to reconsider your reversion. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 16:59, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
What is the contention then?Fairly straightforward. To crouch makes you shorter in stature, and the height of the person (notable within football for his stature) in question makes it an inaptronym. As for
There's a lot of crap websites in the worldand
there is no reliably sourced indication that the name is an inaptronym, neither of you are correct. The sources I added were The Times (literally specifically DEEMED by RfC as a reliable source per WP:RSP) which describes him as “inaptly named”, and ESPN (widely described at RSN as being a reliable source), which describes him as having an “ironic name” - sure, this isn’t the exact phrasing for inaptronym, but it’s the *exact* phrasing used for the Rob Banks example, which even only has one source which isn’t deemed reliable. If your arguments here (as it seem from your responses) are to deem The Times and ESPN as not reliable or a “crap website”, then I really don’t know what to tell you. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 20:20, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
But now in your latest comment you are backtracking and saying that that is the contention being made- this isn't the case. My contention is that to crouch means to make ones self shorter, not that it means short. I take your point on the ESPN source, though I disagree that the byline of The Toe Poke hinders its reliability as a source (the HuffPost citation for the Robin Mahfood example is from their "comedy" section, for example), but even taking that argument at its best, that leaves one reliable source (The Times, which you did not mention in your reply) outright describing Crouch as "inaptly-named" - which is a stronger contention than the majority of the examples in the inaptronym section. In fact, even looking at half of the examples there, even leaving the already mentioned Rob Banks example to the side, most of them have even weaker sourcing than the Crouch example - the Larry Playfair example doesn't even refer to his name (which I will be removing after I post this comment). Josh Outman is sourced to someone's personal blog website (using the free version of Wordpress), which is hardly the "RELIABLE SOURCE" mentioned in block capitals in the edit warning. The Samuel Foote citation (also The Times) does mention that he made the "foote and leg" jokes and why, but also makes no reference to his name being an aptronym. Colleen Lawless's citation just describes her as having "an incredible name for a judge" - no mention of an inaptronym, or even being inapt, just "incredible". Bob Walk's name is cited to an article saying "When The Stats Match The Name", which if anything indicates it's the opposite of an inaptronym. I could go on, but that's just four (plus Rob Banks, five) examples of inaptronyms that are much more weakly sourced than this one. By arguing against including Crouch on the back of it not being obvious enough (which is a matter of personal judgement) then I fear the criteria in big block capitals at the top is not being consistently applied. I maintain my view that the Crouch example is an inaptronym and bears inclusion. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 14:49, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
My contention is that to crouch means to make ones self shorter, not that it means short.To have a name relating to making ones self shorter while being tall enough to be notable as an outlier in his field makes it an inapt name, hence why we have an RS backing this up. Furthermore, him being a soccer player is immaterial, it's about whether it's an inapt name or not, else Frank Beard (whose beard has nothing to do with his job as a musician) or Samuel Foote (whose absence of a foot has nothing to do with him being an actor) wouldn't be in the list. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 14:09, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Could you please make your case without trying to use other examples as justification? Whether or not other examples are inaptronyms is entirely independent of this particular proposed entry. If you want to challenge other entries you are perfectly entitled to do so, but don't mix that up with your claims for Crouch. Foote (foot) is the opposite of no foot. Beard is the opposite of no beard. Crouch is not the opposite of tall. Sundayclose ( talk) 15:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
since I'm only guessing you think "crouch" means "is short"- this is now the third time I am telling you that this isn't what I'm saying. It's a fairly routine observation to make that crouching makes you shorter, as per the various pieces of pictorial evidence on the article to which its disambiguation page links on enwiki. Even per the first dictionary entry I could find when googling it means to bring yourself closer to the ground, ergo shorter.
Sources can use words differently than this Wikipedia article uses them- the sources verbatim say he's inaptly-named. The section on inaptronyms is for.. people who are inaptly named.
We have to interpret the words used- I don't get how you can't interpret "inaptly-named" as meaning it's an inaptronym. As for the sentence about
you haven't yet in good faith proposed a one sentence inapt comparison, I have in this thread, you just disagree with it. And finally on the good faith thing - I'm not sure if this is your intention here but if you genuinely are trying to accuse me of arguing in bad faith, please actually state this rather than alluding to it. It'll make things easier for the purpose of any future dispute resolution. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 18:09, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
I stumbled across the Wikipedia page for Composer, Pianist, and Artist Jessie Baetz, who was born Jessie Elizabeth Drummer, despite her not playing the drums. It made me curious, if someone’s maiden name was an aptonym or in-aptonym, but their married name isn’t, are they still eligible for inclusion in this article’s list? I couldn’t find an answer elsewhere, so figured I should ask here. Thanks! Slamforeman ( talk) 18:12, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Ashley Bland Manlove, the first openly lesbian African-American member of Missouri's House of Representatives. No source yet, but it would be a beautiful inaptronym if one ever comes up. — ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 14:09, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
A tag was placed today: "This section may contain excessive or irrelevant examples"
The section has also an inline comment that says "This is not a list article. DO NOT ADD EXAMPLES WITHOUT A RELIABLE SOURCE STATING THAT IT IS AN APTRONYM, PER CONSENSUS"
All items in the list has refs; I randomly checked some and these do say something to the end, e.g., "Bert Beveridge, the founder of Tito’s Handmade Vodka, is appropriately named for a spirits entrepreneur."
I was thinking aboout listifying the section, but it seems there are no similar lists, i.e., lists based on the peculiarity of a surname. Let us see what WP:LIST say. - Altenmann >talk
For the record, I placed the tag there and my concern is not that the references are insufficient, it's that list is too long. Per WP:LONGSEQ, "material within a list should relate to the article topic without going into unnecessary detail". To that end, I believe the list is cluttered with examples, a great deal of which would not benefit the average reader. After, like, 5-10 examples, they get the point.
Instead of trimming the list though, it would be nice if we could spin the list off into a new article, something like List of notable aptronyms. Interested to hear other people's opinions on this matter. Slamforeman ( talk) 04:51, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
...would be minuscule- a good point. There is not much to write about the word, which is about funny coincidences, nothing more. - Altenmann >talk 16:38, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 3 November 2015. The result of the discussion was keep. |
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This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 6 sections are present. |
I propose that the Honorable Judge Mary Yu be added to the list. She holds the judicial record for most marriages officiated by a judge in Washington State, and also performed the state's first same-sex marriage. She already has a wikipedia page of her own that could be linked! 131.229.236.145 ( talk) 02:00, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
He doesn’t make outs 98.234.136.216 ( talk) 01:21, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
@ JesseRafe: on your removal of Peter Crouch from the inaptronym section, that's not the contention being made. It's there because it is considered, by two reliable sources, to be an inapt name. Much like Rob Banks (policeman) wouldn't be removed because "policeman" isn't the opposite of "robbing banks", removing Crouch because his surname doesn't directly contradict his height isn't a good decision, imv. Again, we have two reliable sources describing it as an inaptronym. I urge you to reconsider your reversion. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 16:59, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
What is the contention then?Fairly straightforward. To crouch makes you shorter in stature, and the height of the person (notable within football for his stature) in question makes it an inaptronym. As for
There's a lot of crap websites in the worldand
there is no reliably sourced indication that the name is an inaptronym, neither of you are correct. The sources I added were The Times (literally specifically DEEMED by RfC as a reliable source per WP:RSP) which describes him as “inaptly named”, and ESPN (widely described at RSN as being a reliable source), which describes him as having an “ironic name” - sure, this isn’t the exact phrasing for inaptronym, but it’s the *exact* phrasing used for the Rob Banks example, which even only has one source which isn’t deemed reliable. If your arguments here (as it seem from your responses) are to deem The Times and ESPN as not reliable or a “crap website”, then I really don’t know what to tell you. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 20:20, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
But now in your latest comment you are backtracking and saying that that is the contention being made- this isn't the case. My contention is that to crouch means to make ones self shorter, not that it means short. I take your point on the ESPN source, though I disagree that the byline of The Toe Poke hinders its reliability as a source (the HuffPost citation for the Robin Mahfood example is from their "comedy" section, for example), but even taking that argument at its best, that leaves one reliable source (The Times, which you did not mention in your reply) outright describing Crouch as "inaptly-named" - which is a stronger contention than the majority of the examples in the inaptronym section. In fact, even looking at half of the examples there, even leaving the already mentioned Rob Banks example to the side, most of them have even weaker sourcing than the Crouch example - the Larry Playfair example doesn't even refer to his name (which I will be removing after I post this comment). Josh Outman is sourced to someone's personal blog website (using the free version of Wordpress), which is hardly the "RELIABLE SOURCE" mentioned in block capitals in the edit warning. The Samuel Foote citation (also The Times) does mention that he made the "foote and leg" jokes and why, but also makes no reference to his name being an aptronym. Colleen Lawless's citation just describes her as having "an incredible name for a judge" - no mention of an inaptronym, or even being inapt, just "incredible". Bob Walk's name is cited to an article saying "When The Stats Match The Name", which if anything indicates it's the opposite of an inaptronym. I could go on, but that's just four (plus Rob Banks, five) examples of inaptronyms that are much more weakly sourced than this one. By arguing against including Crouch on the back of it not being obvious enough (which is a matter of personal judgement) then I fear the criteria in big block capitals at the top is not being consistently applied. I maintain my view that the Crouch example is an inaptronym and bears inclusion. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 14:49, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
My contention is that to crouch means to make ones self shorter, not that it means short.To have a name relating to making ones self shorter while being tall enough to be notable as an outlier in his field makes it an inapt name, hence why we have an RS backing this up. Furthermore, him being a soccer player is immaterial, it's about whether it's an inapt name or not, else Frank Beard (whose beard has nothing to do with his job as a musician) or Samuel Foote (whose absence of a foot has nothing to do with him being an actor) wouldn't be in the list. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 14:09, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Could you please make your case without trying to use other examples as justification? Whether or not other examples are inaptronyms is entirely independent of this particular proposed entry. If you want to challenge other entries you are perfectly entitled to do so, but don't mix that up with your claims for Crouch. Foote (foot) is the opposite of no foot. Beard is the opposite of no beard. Crouch is not the opposite of tall. Sundayclose ( talk) 15:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
since I'm only guessing you think "crouch" means "is short"- this is now the third time I am telling you that this isn't what I'm saying. It's a fairly routine observation to make that crouching makes you shorter, as per the various pieces of pictorial evidence on the article to which its disambiguation page links on enwiki. Even per the first dictionary entry I could find when googling it means to bring yourself closer to the ground, ergo shorter.
Sources can use words differently than this Wikipedia article uses them- the sources verbatim say he's inaptly-named. The section on inaptronyms is for.. people who are inaptly named.
We have to interpret the words used- I don't get how you can't interpret "inaptly-named" as meaning it's an inaptronym. As for the sentence about
you haven't yet in good faith proposed a one sentence inapt comparison, I have in this thread, you just disagree with it. And finally on the good faith thing - I'm not sure if this is your intention here but if you genuinely are trying to accuse me of arguing in bad faith, please actually state this rather than alluding to it. It'll make things easier for the purpose of any future dispute resolution. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 18:09, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
I stumbled across the Wikipedia page for Composer, Pianist, and Artist Jessie Baetz, who was born Jessie Elizabeth Drummer, despite her not playing the drums. It made me curious, if someone’s maiden name was an aptonym or in-aptonym, but their married name isn’t, are they still eligible for inclusion in this article’s list? I couldn’t find an answer elsewhere, so figured I should ask here. Thanks! Slamforeman ( talk) 18:12, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Ashley Bland Manlove, the first openly lesbian African-American member of Missouri's House of Representatives. No source yet, but it would be a beautiful inaptronym if one ever comes up. — ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 14:09, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
A tag was placed today: "This section may contain excessive or irrelevant examples"
The section has also an inline comment that says "This is not a list article. DO NOT ADD EXAMPLES WITHOUT A RELIABLE SOURCE STATING THAT IT IS AN APTRONYM, PER CONSENSUS"
All items in the list has refs; I randomly checked some and these do say something to the end, e.g., "Bert Beveridge, the founder of Tito’s Handmade Vodka, is appropriately named for a spirits entrepreneur."
I was thinking aboout listifying the section, but it seems there are no similar lists, i.e., lists based on the peculiarity of a surname. Let us see what WP:LIST say. - Altenmann >talk
For the record, I placed the tag there and my concern is not that the references are insufficient, it's that list is too long. Per WP:LONGSEQ, "material within a list should relate to the article topic without going into unnecessary detail". To that end, I believe the list is cluttered with examples, a great deal of which would not benefit the average reader. After, like, 5-10 examples, they get the point.
Instead of trimming the list though, it would be nice if we could spin the list off into a new article, something like List of notable aptronyms. Interested to hear other people's opinions on this matter. Slamforeman ( talk) 04:51, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
...would be minuscule- a good point. There is not much to write about the word, which is about funny coincidences, nothing more. - Altenmann >talk 16:38, 20 June 2024 (UTC)