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I don't know anything about this event, but the wording in the opening paragraph seems a bit strong, so I'm wondering whether there's a POV problem here. - dcljr ( talk) 03:48, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
As mentioned above, this article needs a little tweaking POV wise, the over use of the term "massacare" and "THE killings" suggests a slightly anti-Soviet skew, plus there is no section on the Russia side of things. Also the sentence structure needs work, the english is not of any great quality in places and the sentences don't really flow in certain areas. SGGH 20:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem with terms like massacre is that, while you can come up with NPOV definitions, the term still sounds POV, and sometimes the exact situation is unsure.
A massacre is the mass murder of individuals with no means of defense, mass murder being the killing of at least four people at the same time. But how much defense do they need? And also, for an issue like this, which is still a major issue for many people, it's a good idea to stay away from terms like massacre, even when they would be applicable, because it is a "hot" word which gets people incited. Crispus 01:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
"It was also reported that toxic gas was used against the demonstrators resulting in vomiting, respiratory problems and sudden paralyses of the nervous system were reported."
This is a fact, my wife was exposed to the nerve gas as a 9 year old child and spent several months in hospital, she is still officially registered disabled as a result of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.40.43.94 ( talk) 14:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
The title "April 9 tragedy" is both vague and POV. Should the article be moved so that it has a more specific, and neutral, title? -- Bowlhover ( talk) 04:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
User:DonaldDuck has recently subjected the article to significant modification (read vandalism), removing the sentences which describe the participation of Soviet tanks in suppressing the demonstration. Instead, he inserted a biased claim recapitulating the old Soviet/Russian nationalistic version that the peacefully rallying Georgians attacked fully armed Russian soldiers. This is one of the most disguisting manifestation of Soviet apology I have ever encountered. Sobchak's fact-finding group as well as several human rights organizations have described how Soviet tanks and soldiers armed with spades moved on to massacre the demonstrators. -- 93.177.151.101 ( talk) 11:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
No, Sobchak's report does not mention such things. Russian soldiers used batons and metal shovels; they were followed by tanks and used prohibited gases. I know it is fashionable in modern Russia to whitewhash the current regime's Soviet predecessors in order to justify new violent efforts at empire-building, but you cannot erase history. Don't delete sourced text and provide sources for your own changes. ( Personal attack removed) -- 93.177.151.101 ( talk) 12:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Huh! Perhaps I have also to ask my uncle and aunt if they "trampled down the women". If I'd be an admin, I'd have blocked this guy for these words only.-- Kober Talk 05:37, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Not true. There were mostly wounds inflicted by metal shovels. Please stop edit warring or you are going to be reported for 3RR violation and vandalism.-- Kober Talk 05:44, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
While I'm not going to engage in a NPOV debate just now (although I can't fail to notice that the English and the Russian articles are completely different and there might indeed be a POV problem with BOTH), I do think that "April 9 tragedy" is too harsh a term for the article namespace. Please provide sources that historians or mainstream media referencing those events indeed use the terms "massacre" or "tragedy". Should such sources not exist, I propose a move to something like "9 April 1989 Tbilisi events". Vargher ( talk) 23:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Results from Google Books
In fact, "massacre" is more commonly used in scholarly literature, with "Tbilisi massacre" being the most frequent description of the event. However, I prefer "tragedy" as a more neutral one. -- Kober Talk 04:46, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
In the opening paragraph it says "resulting in 20 deaths". In Section 2.1 paragraph 3 it says "The stampede following the attack resulted in the death of 19 people, among them 17 women." In paragraph 7, "Georgian TV showed the bodies of the 19 women violently killed" and "The Soviet government blamed the demonstrators for the death of the 20 people"
I thought that maybe it was saying that the stampede resulted in the death of 19 people, among them 17 women and therefore 2 males. However, if the total number is 20 and 19 of them are women, then what happened to the other male that died in the stampede? Or was it 17 women and 2 girls? Sambowlby ( talk) 06:02, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thats not masscare — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.187.134.119 ( talk) 12:06, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
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Can the algorithm be adjusted to change the photo in the page preview, it currently displays the one associated with the History of Georgia, of which this article is a part, but the image isn't appropriate for this specific article. Helenteds ( talk) 04:29, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on April 9, 2006, April 9, 2007, April 9, 2008, April 9, 2009, and April 9, 2010. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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I don't know anything about this event, but the wording in the opening paragraph seems a bit strong, so I'm wondering whether there's a POV problem here. - dcljr ( talk) 03:48, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
As mentioned above, this article needs a little tweaking POV wise, the over use of the term "massacare" and "THE killings" suggests a slightly anti-Soviet skew, plus there is no section on the Russia side of things. Also the sentence structure needs work, the english is not of any great quality in places and the sentences don't really flow in certain areas. SGGH 20:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem with terms like massacre is that, while you can come up with NPOV definitions, the term still sounds POV, and sometimes the exact situation is unsure.
A massacre is the mass murder of individuals with no means of defense, mass murder being the killing of at least four people at the same time. But how much defense do they need? And also, for an issue like this, which is still a major issue for many people, it's a good idea to stay away from terms like massacre, even when they would be applicable, because it is a "hot" word which gets people incited. Crispus 01:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
"It was also reported that toxic gas was used against the demonstrators resulting in vomiting, respiratory problems and sudden paralyses of the nervous system were reported."
This is a fact, my wife was exposed to the nerve gas as a 9 year old child and spent several months in hospital, she is still officially registered disabled as a result of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.40.43.94 ( talk) 14:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
The title "April 9 tragedy" is both vague and POV. Should the article be moved so that it has a more specific, and neutral, title? -- Bowlhover ( talk) 04:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
User:DonaldDuck has recently subjected the article to significant modification (read vandalism), removing the sentences which describe the participation of Soviet tanks in suppressing the demonstration. Instead, he inserted a biased claim recapitulating the old Soviet/Russian nationalistic version that the peacefully rallying Georgians attacked fully armed Russian soldiers. This is one of the most disguisting manifestation of Soviet apology I have ever encountered. Sobchak's fact-finding group as well as several human rights organizations have described how Soviet tanks and soldiers armed with spades moved on to massacre the demonstrators. -- 93.177.151.101 ( talk) 11:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
No, Sobchak's report does not mention such things. Russian soldiers used batons and metal shovels; they were followed by tanks and used prohibited gases. I know it is fashionable in modern Russia to whitewhash the current regime's Soviet predecessors in order to justify new violent efforts at empire-building, but you cannot erase history. Don't delete sourced text and provide sources for your own changes. ( Personal attack removed) -- 93.177.151.101 ( talk) 12:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Huh! Perhaps I have also to ask my uncle and aunt if they "trampled down the women". If I'd be an admin, I'd have blocked this guy for these words only.-- Kober Talk 05:37, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Not true. There were mostly wounds inflicted by metal shovels. Please stop edit warring or you are going to be reported for 3RR violation and vandalism.-- Kober Talk 05:44, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
While I'm not going to engage in a NPOV debate just now (although I can't fail to notice that the English and the Russian articles are completely different and there might indeed be a POV problem with BOTH), I do think that "April 9 tragedy" is too harsh a term for the article namespace. Please provide sources that historians or mainstream media referencing those events indeed use the terms "massacre" or "tragedy". Should such sources not exist, I propose a move to something like "9 April 1989 Tbilisi events". Vargher ( talk) 23:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Results from Google Books
In fact, "massacre" is more commonly used in scholarly literature, with "Tbilisi massacre" being the most frequent description of the event. However, I prefer "tragedy" as a more neutral one. -- Kober Talk 04:46, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
In the opening paragraph it says "resulting in 20 deaths". In Section 2.1 paragraph 3 it says "The stampede following the attack resulted in the death of 19 people, among them 17 women." In paragraph 7, "Georgian TV showed the bodies of the 19 women violently killed" and "The Soviet government blamed the demonstrators for the death of the 20 people"
I thought that maybe it was saying that the stampede resulted in the death of 19 people, among them 17 women and therefore 2 males. However, if the total number is 20 and 19 of them are women, then what happened to the other male that died in the stampede? Or was it 17 women and 2 girls? Sambowlby ( talk) 06:02, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thats not masscare — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.187.134.119 ( talk) 12:06, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on April 9 tragedy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:59, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
Can the algorithm be adjusted to change the photo in the page preview, it currently displays the one associated with the History of Georgia, of which this article is a part, but the image isn't appropriate for this specific article. Helenteds ( talk) 04:29, 16 November 2020 (UTC)