This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Per the edit history of this article over the past week, I did a little cleanup, keeping what appeared to be the best of some of the word tweaks and new material. Cleaned up and expanded the controversies section, tossed a possibly dubious statement that had been fact tagged for quite a while, other assorted bits and pieces.
Comment on citations to avoid future edit wars: Overall, wikipedia guidelines prefer footnotes to inline citations, and overall it's best to follow them here. However, for the purpose of links to photographs, given that wikipedia itself has few examples but we want an illustration, I am OK with the inline links at those places only. It's a little awkward to have both forms, but if we consider the inlink links a stopgap measure until wikimedia commons has actual photos we can insert into the article, it works for me.
Oh, and all you Appy people, get out those digital cameras and start snapping photos of striped, hooves, mottled skin, etc... Wikipedia needs your help! (smile) See Commons--upload file for more info. Montanabw (talk) 03:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm just dead dog tired tonight. I'll try to throw some fact tags at places and throw some citations up tomorrow. And comb over this more thoroughly. It's not that far off, honestly. Clean up clean up clean up. That's the main thing. Ealdgyth | Talk 04:55, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
More stuff:
More as I think of it. Ealdgyth | Talk 14:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Okies, found some articles and my whopping two books on the Appy. I'll try to get some of this stuff into the article this evening. Gotta go run errands first. Whee. Ealdgyth | Talk 20:52, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Allright, all in-text photo links are gone (I think, unless I missed one, which is always possible). Also, the registration and external links sections have been fairly well pruned through removal of information to the ApHC article (and the two articles are cross linked). Tomorrow I'll probably work on extrapolating a uses section from all of the various uses mentioned, as well as taking as stab at the lead. Depends on how busy work is as far as how much of this I actually get done! Looking forward to seeing the pics, Ealdgyth... Dana boomer ( talk) 03:07, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Starting a new header to make the discussion easier to follow. I really see no harm in a short popular culture section as is (maybe if some famous person owns appys like how William Shatner is into Saddlebreds, we could add that in, or if Appys are sports mascots, like the gray horses all named Traveler (mascot) are for for USC, etc. I agree we don't have to list every B western. But I will make it a subheading of "uses" because, really, that's what this is all about. (The uses section could be expanded a bit, I suppose, but it was 1am last night when I tweaked it and my enthusiasm was limited. I hate the ref template, I know eventually I have to care, but that hasn't stopped an article from going GA yet, even the horribly anal-retentive review I endured over at Arabian horse didn't hammer on the citation format (for FA it will matter, I suppose, can't hure to improve cites, but I don't see it as a priority).
Are switched to the templates. Blech. Disturb them at your peril. Ealdgyth | Talk 02:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I think we're getting close. A bit more expansion, and then I suggest we leave it sit for a couple of days, and then everyone go through it with a fine toothed comb, find all the weirdly phrased sentences, etc. And do a last pass through to make sure we're not overlinking things, and make sure the lead is a good summary. Ealdgyth | Talk 04:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
OK, I'll post things up as I find them: cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 19:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
You need to minimise the use of phrases like 'Some scholars/archaeologists/historians believe' bits. I trimmed stuff at the beginning of Spotted horses in the Americas as an example. The vague extra words weren't adding anything to the materialcheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 19:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
To summarise, you've done a good job with the flow of the prose, it needs some copyediting (some of which I've done already and noted some more stuff to do above).
Beagle is a good example of a breed article to aim for which is a current FA.
OK, I made a small para on organisations, this is what I meant so the paragraph doesn't leap straight into registration then mention the ApHC without explaining who they are. I'd figure it needs a membership figure in it to show relative size next to the other one best. Once this is done I think we are there. cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 20:46, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
There, that look good? Ealdgyth | Talk 02:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Here is the information I recieved from the Appaloosa Horse Club 2/13/2008
2007 Membership Total = 22,782;
Appaloosa Horse Club Fact Sheet February, 2008
Registration
2007 Registration Statistics Regular (#) Classification 4,308 Non-Characteristic (N) 1,637 Total Registrations 5,945 (12% decrease from 2006)
Marketing Notes
New advertising - Look for the ApHC in the Equestrian Magazine at http://www.equestmagazine.com. The publication will be featuring the Appaloosa in February.
Look for Appaloosas on the internet's latest phenomenon-Nicker Network http://www.nickernetwork.com) The ApHC and Nicker Network will be working together to bring quality Appaloosa images, accurate breed information and historical information to viewers. We are starting with banner ads and will be providing some pictures and video for the breed pages. Both of these great internet magazines will be receiving ApHC press releases and articles.
Reichert Celebration has approved an Appaloosa breed show to be held during the 2008 Reichert Celebration and has submitted an ApHC show application. Reichert is also offering the Reichert Appaloosa & Paint Claiming Halter Futurity. 40 slots are being offered on a first come, first served basis for people primarily involved in the Appaloosa and Paint Horse industry. Slot Fee $1500 ($750 due December 15, 2007, $750 due February 1, 2008.) Nominate your horse by May 15, 2008. Claiming Fee: $12,500 or $15,000 or $20,000 - more information is available on their website at http://reichertcelebration.com
Appaloosa Blog Spot - is reaching more than 4,000 unique visitors each month.
Show
2007 World Show Non-Pro entries - 1,221 Open Halter entries - 393 Open Performance entries - 918 Total entries - 2,532 Total horses - 978
Total entries increased by 10.13% over last year and we were up 35 horses (3.7%) over last year! Entries increased in all divisions (non-pro, halter, performance).
2008 National Show Official Car Sponsor Watson Quality Ford as signed on as the official vehicle sponsor for the Youth/National Shows. This sponsorship places them as a Platinum Show sponsor - the first in ApHC history. Their sponsorship for the 3 years includes vehicles for officials and staff, advertising, cash and exhibitor activities.
Preferred Hotels in Jackson Hotels designated as ApHC-preferred for the World Championship Appaloosa Youth Show and 61st National Championship Appaloosa Show - are listed on the National Show page at www.appaloosa.com
Board of Directors
Board Elections Declarations of Candidacy are due Feb 28th.
ApHC Membership
Appaloosa Advantage Program Beginning in 2008, Appaloosa Horse Club (ApHC) members will have more membership perks than ever! The Appaloosa Member Advantage program offers discounts to ApHC members for products on premium brands including Dodge, John Deere, UPS, Sherwin Williams Paint, Toshiba and Office Depot.
Most importantly, there is no charge for ApHC members to activate their Appaloosa Member Advantage!
To begin saving, ApHC members must call
(888) 304-SPOT (7768) to activate the Appaloosa Member Advantage.
2007 Membership Total = 22,782; (Down 1,458 from 2006).
Please let me know if you want to use any of these. I have all the rights to them as I took them and they are my horses. I am not a wiki guru so use what you want.
http://www.barnbuddy.net/gallery2/v/S_B/dec2007/
http://www.barnbuddy.net/gallery2/v/S_B/fanny2007/
Striped hooves and White Scelera
http://www.barnbuddy.net/gallery2/v/S_B/cookiefilly/
Unless anyone objects, I'll put this up for PR in the next day or so. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I've worked my way through the comments on the peer review page, and have a few comments/questions on what else should be tweaked in the article:
Just a few thoughts and comments...let me know what you think! Dana boomer ( talk) 19:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Questionable sources (in my mind) -
I didn't look at what might need to be sourced that isn't yet. Also, given our success with TB, we might want to structure the article like that more. Do you think we'll get queries on the value of the horses, etc? Ealdgyth - Talk 16:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Montana sent me this way to give it a read-over. It may be worth making things nice and clear: the LP gene only guarantees "Appaloosa characteristics." I did get a little mired in the "not necessarilies" and vagueness, and as I wrote the LP article and am familiar with the subject matter, that probably indicates that layperson readers will garner little useful information. Technically, the use of "theorizes" is correct, but it may be misleading in context. "Their research shows that Appaloosa or LP gene is responsible for Appaloosa patterning..."
"While there is currently no DNA test for the trait, it is believed that it is a single autosomal dominant locus, and may possibly be a gene-complex rather than a single gene." The GENE is TRPM1, the TRAIT is Leopard complex; without a DNA test for TRPM1, LP couldn't have been assigned to it. I removed "located at" because that is implicit in "locus." Gene-complex isn't linked, and isn't explained, except that by parallelism, it is understood that it is not a single gene.
"It should be noted that not every horse with the Lp gene exhibits hair coat spotting. However, even some solid individuals will exhibit characteristics such as vertically striped hooves, white sclera of the eye, or mottled skin around the eyes, lips, and genitalia." That 2nd sentence really trips me up. Some random individual horses have Appy characteristics? It may be worth tying in ApHC definitions: solid but characteristic have LP, NC do not.
The 2nd paragraph looks solid to me. It reminds me that it is often good to include a mention that LP is inherited separately from any other color genes. People often think - small wonder, as they have these silly books that tell them so! - things along the lines of piebald vs. skewbald; that spots need be a certain color. I hope that this is helpful. Best, Countercanter ( talk) 13:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Footnotes 48 and 50 (2 of the ones with page numbers needed) were probably added by either User:AppHistorian or User:Appaloosas. Probably need to email them to see who has those books. I do not. Maybe worst case scenario someone could phone the Appaloosa museum and ask if they have them, or try interlibrary loan. (Also might be magazine or newsletter articles) I think I DO have the Harris book, though, buried somewhere in the basement. Nag me if I don't get this clarified in the next day or two. Montanabw (talk) 20:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Per the edit history of this article over the past week, I did a little cleanup, keeping what appeared to be the best of some of the word tweaks and new material. Cleaned up and expanded the controversies section, tossed a possibly dubious statement that had been fact tagged for quite a while, other assorted bits and pieces.
Comment on citations to avoid future edit wars: Overall, wikipedia guidelines prefer footnotes to inline citations, and overall it's best to follow them here. However, for the purpose of links to photographs, given that wikipedia itself has few examples but we want an illustration, I am OK with the inline links at those places only. It's a little awkward to have both forms, but if we consider the inlink links a stopgap measure until wikimedia commons has actual photos we can insert into the article, it works for me.
Oh, and all you Appy people, get out those digital cameras and start snapping photos of striped, hooves, mottled skin, etc... Wikipedia needs your help! (smile) See Commons--upload file for more info. Montanabw (talk) 03:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm just dead dog tired tonight. I'll try to throw some fact tags at places and throw some citations up tomorrow. And comb over this more thoroughly. It's not that far off, honestly. Clean up clean up clean up. That's the main thing. Ealdgyth | Talk 04:55, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
More stuff:
More as I think of it. Ealdgyth | Talk 14:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Okies, found some articles and my whopping two books on the Appy. I'll try to get some of this stuff into the article this evening. Gotta go run errands first. Whee. Ealdgyth | Talk 20:52, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Allright, all in-text photo links are gone (I think, unless I missed one, which is always possible). Also, the registration and external links sections have been fairly well pruned through removal of information to the ApHC article (and the two articles are cross linked). Tomorrow I'll probably work on extrapolating a uses section from all of the various uses mentioned, as well as taking as stab at the lead. Depends on how busy work is as far as how much of this I actually get done! Looking forward to seeing the pics, Ealdgyth... Dana boomer ( talk) 03:07, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Starting a new header to make the discussion easier to follow. I really see no harm in a short popular culture section as is (maybe if some famous person owns appys like how William Shatner is into Saddlebreds, we could add that in, or if Appys are sports mascots, like the gray horses all named Traveler (mascot) are for for USC, etc. I agree we don't have to list every B western. But I will make it a subheading of "uses" because, really, that's what this is all about. (The uses section could be expanded a bit, I suppose, but it was 1am last night when I tweaked it and my enthusiasm was limited. I hate the ref template, I know eventually I have to care, but that hasn't stopped an article from going GA yet, even the horribly anal-retentive review I endured over at Arabian horse didn't hammer on the citation format (for FA it will matter, I suppose, can't hure to improve cites, but I don't see it as a priority).
Are switched to the templates. Blech. Disturb them at your peril. Ealdgyth | Talk 02:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I think we're getting close. A bit more expansion, and then I suggest we leave it sit for a couple of days, and then everyone go through it with a fine toothed comb, find all the weirdly phrased sentences, etc. And do a last pass through to make sure we're not overlinking things, and make sure the lead is a good summary. Ealdgyth | Talk 04:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
OK, I'll post things up as I find them: cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 19:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
You need to minimise the use of phrases like 'Some scholars/archaeologists/historians believe' bits. I trimmed stuff at the beginning of Spotted horses in the Americas as an example. The vague extra words weren't adding anything to the materialcheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 19:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
To summarise, you've done a good job with the flow of the prose, it needs some copyediting (some of which I've done already and noted some more stuff to do above).
Beagle is a good example of a breed article to aim for which is a current FA.
OK, I made a small para on organisations, this is what I meant so the paragraph doesn't leap straight into registration then mention the ApHC without explaining who they are. I'd figure it needs a membership figure in it to show relative size next to the other one best. Once this is done I think we are there. cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 20:46, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
There, that look good? Ealdgyth | Talk 02:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Here is the information I recieved from the Appaloosa Horse Club 2/13/2008
2007 Membership Total = 22,782;
Appaloosa Horse Club Fact Sheet February, 2008
Registration
2007 Registration Statistics Regular (#) Classification 4,308 Non-Characteristic (N) 1,637 Total Registrations 5,945 (12% decrease from 2006)
Marketing Notes
New advertising - Look for the ApHC in the Equestrian Magazine at http://www.equestmagazine.com. The publication will be featuring the Appaloosa in February.
Look for Appaloosas on the internet's latest phenomenon-Nicker Network http://www.nickernetwork.com) The ApHC and Nicker Network will be working together to bring quality Appaloosa images, accurate breed information and historical information to viewers. We are starting with banner ads and will be providing some pictures and video for the breed pages. Both of these great internet magazines will be receiving ApHC press releases and articles.
Reichert Celebration has approved an Appaloosa breed show to be held during the 2008 Reichert Celebration and has submitted an ApHC show application. Reichert is also offering the Reichert Appaloosa & Paint Claiming Halter Futurity. 40 slots are being offered on a first come, first served basis for people primarily involved in the Appaloosa and Paint Horse industry. Slot Fee $1500 ($750 due December 15, 2007, $750 due February 1, 2008.) Nominate your horse by May 15, 2008. Claiming Fee: $12,500 or $15,000 or $20,000 - more information is available on their website at http://reichertcelebration.com
Appaloosa Blog Spot - is reaching more than 4,000 unique visitors each month.
Show
2007 World Show Non-Pro entries - 1,221 Open Halter entries - 393 Open Performance entries - 918 Total entries - 2,532 Total horses - 978
Total entries increased by 10.13% over last year and we were up 35 horses (3.7%) over last year! Entries increased in all divisions (non-pro, halter, performance).
2008 National Show Official Car Sponsor Watson Quality Ford as signed on as the official vehicle sponsor for the Youth/National Shows. This sponsorship places them as a Platinum Show sponsor - the first in ApHC history. Their sponsorship for the 3 years includes vehicles for officials and staff, advertising, cash and exhibitor activities.
Preferred Hotels in Jackson Hotels designated as ApHC-preferred for the World Championship Appaloosa Youth Show and 61st National Championship Appaloosa Show - are listed on the National Show page at www.appaloosa.com
Board of Directors
Board Elections Declarations of Candidacy are due Feb 28th.
ApHC Membership
Appaloosa Advantage Program Beginning in 2008, Appaloosa Horse Club (ApHC) members will have more membership perks than ever! The Appaloosa Member Advantage program offers discounts to ApHC members for products on premium brands including Dodge, John Deere, UPS, Sherwin Williams Paint, Toshiba and Office Depot.
Most importantly, there is no charge for ApHC members to activate their Appaloosa Member Advantage!
To begin saving, ApHC members must call
(888) 304-SPOT (7768) to activate the Appaloosa Member Advantage.
2007 Membership Total = 22,782; (Down 1,458 from 2006).
Please let me know if you want to use any of these. I have all the rights to them as I took them and they are my horses. I am not a wiki guru so use what you want.
http://www.barnbuddy.net/gallery2/v/S_B/dec2007/
http://www.barnbuddy.net/gallery2/v/S_B/fanny2007/
Striped hooves and White Scelera
http://www.barnbuddy.net/gallery2/v/S_B/cookiefilly/
Unless anyone objects, I'll put this up for PR in the next day or so. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I've worked my way through the comments on the peer review page, and have a few comments/questions on what else should be tweaked in the article:
Just a few thoughts and comments...let me know what you think! Dana boomer ( talk) 19:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Questionable sources (in my mind) -
I didn't look at what might need to be sourced that isn't yet. Also, given our success with TB, we might want to structure the article like that more. Do you think we'll get queries on the value of the horses, etc? Ealdgyth - Talk 16:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Montana sent me this way to give it a read-over. It may be worth making things nice and clear: the LP gene only guarantees "Appaloosa characteristics." I did get a little mired in the "not necessarilies" and vagueness, and as I wrote the LP article and am familiar with the subject matter, that probably indicates that layperson readers will garner little useful information. Technically, the use of "theorizes" is correct, but it may be misleading in context. "Their research shows that Appaloosa or LP gene is responsible for Appaloosa patterning..."
"While there is currently no DNA test for the trait, it is believed that it is a single autosomal dominant locus, and may possibly be a gene-complex rather than a single gene." The GENE is TRPM1, the TRAIT is Leopard complex; without a DNA test for TRPM1, LP couldn't have been assigned to it. I removed "located at" because that is implicit in "locus." Gene-complex isn't linked, and isn't explained, except that by parallelism, it is understood that it is not a single gene.
"It should be noted that not every horse with the Lp gene exhibits hair coat spotting. However, even some solid individuals will exhibit characteristics such as vertically striped hooves, white sclera of the eye, or mottled skin around the eyes, lips, and genitalia." That 2nd sentence really trips me up. Some random individual horses have Appy characteristics? It may be worth tying in ApHC definitions: solid but characteristic have LP, NC do not.
The 2nd paragraph looks solid to me. It reminds me that it is often good to include a mention that LP is inherited separately from any other color genes. People often think - small wonder, as they have these silly books that tell them so! - things along the lines of piebald vs. skewbald; that spots need be a certain color. I hope that this is helpful. Best, Countercanter ( talk) 13:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Footnotes 48 and 50 (2 of the ones with page numbers needed) were probably added by either User:AppHistorian or User:Appaloosas. Probably need to email them to see who has those books. I do not. Maybe worst case scenario someone could phone the Appaloosa museum and ask if they have them, or try interlibrary loan. (Also might be magazine or newsletter articles) I think I DO have the Harris book, though, buried somewhere in the basement. Nag me if I don't get this clarified in the next day or two. Montanabw (talk) 20:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)