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From a Bryn Mawr review, there is a new (as opposed to 1912) edition and translation of of Apollonius
Christopher P. Jones (ed.), Philostratus. Apollonius of Tyana: Letters of Apollonius; Ancient Testimonia; Eusebius's Reply to Hierocles. Loeb Classical Library, 458. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2006. Pp. 264. ISBN 0-674-99617-8. $21.50.
Reviewed by Adam Kemezis, Bowling Green State University (akemezi@bgnet.bgsu.edu
I accessed it on 7/16/07. I don't want to fuss with the article on a subject about which I know nothing, but an editor may wish to put it in the reference list.
Apollonius sounds like an interesting and possibly important figure in the history of ideas, about whom we know little except for caricatures and allusions,like so many scraps from the Hellenistic times. His biography reinforces that there may have been some sort of intellectual contact/intercourse with India, not just trade. In the past, I have read speculation about the possible influences of Indian metaphysics on Plato four centuries earlier. Apollonian (?) traditions underline that this might have been possible, and not just for Plato. But in truth we have so little evidence to support or refute such speculations.
I have seen the Penn and Teller Bullshit episode where Michael Shermer states the glaring similarities between Jesus and Apollonius. However, I can't seem to find the source of these statements documents anywhere and they are not listed on this Wiki page either.
Some of the things claimed to be attributed to Apollonius are:
Do any of these claims hold ground? If so why are they not listed on this page, and where would one research these ideas more?
Indeed. The fact that sources on Apollonius are treated in this article with severe skepticism, while the biblical stories in the article on Jesus are not addressed with the same skepticism, is biased. 74.130.22.28 ( talk) 09:55, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Not only are those claims either made-up or simply twists on the story [to reflect Christianized language; only serving to enhance the supposed connection between the two], there are other claims that are completely wrong. For instance, there are no sources that suggest that Apollonius was a native speaker of Aramaic. I cannot find this in any accurate source. Neither can I find the idea that Jesus' teachings reflect Platonic teachings [when it clearly doesn't; just ask about any of the modern historical Jesus scholars]. It's also anachronistic to claim that Jesus was on a 'mission to bring Jewish culture to the nations'. In fact, the opposite is stated in the gospels ["I have come only for the lost sheep of Israel" (Matt. 15:24)]. Another issue of comparison; Apollonius may have indeed been called a 'savior from heaven' but whatever that meant in Apollonius' context meant something completely different in Jesus' context. The claim about Apollonius was not a direct challenge to Caesar; Jesus being proclaimed as Savior was a direct challenge. Plus, there is more than enough evidence to suggest that the earliest followers of Jesus did not conceive of him as a "Hellenistic savior" [assuming, for the moment, that early Christianity abandoned its Jewish theological roots], but rather as a Jewish prophet and Messiah. As pointed out by another user, "Messiah" only has meaning in a Jewish cultural and theological matrix. It would not have been used by the Greeks or the Romans to denote what was meant of Jesus. User:stormchaser23 2:03, 05 December 2015 (UTC)
Ascending to heaven is not merely "a Jewish concept", but is found throughout the various religions and myths of the world. Have you forgotten the apotheosis of Heracles in Greek religion? Arion 3x3 ( talk) 19:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma,
A few questions for you about the Apollonius of Tyana article.
1. You put the Francis quote from the sources section to the historical facts section. May I ask why? Francis is specifically discussing the sources involved. This quote is a better fit in the sources section IMHO.
2. I checked the source for this quote: "This led to controversy, as critics believed Gibbon was alluding to Jesus being a fanatic." It was simply not there in the B.W. Young article. Unless I miss something, I think this is out of place.
3. "Hilton Hotema compared Apollonius to Jesus by noting that there is much historical data surrounding the life of the Tyanean, but that Jesus is unknown outside of the New Testament." This is well outside mainstream scholarship and demonstrably false. If this quote is included, a note should be made regarding this. There is ample evidence for Jesus outside the New Testament and virtually no early evidence for Apollonius, as demonstrated in the Wikipedia article.
Thank you. Rusdo ( talk) 04:28, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
Hello all, I'm a classics student playing through the rise of the tomb raider game and the first level seems to be alluding to Apollonius. Thoughts? 2601:603:5100:AC10:B035:E5E8:9820:405B ( talk) 02:32, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Apollonius of Tyana article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
From a Bryn Mawr review, there is a new (as opposed to 1912) edition and translation of of Apollonius
Christopher P. Jones (ed.), Philostratus. Apollonius of Tyana: Letters of Apollonius; Ancient Testimonia; Eusebius's Reply to Hierocles. Loeb Classical Library, 458. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2006. Pp. 264. ISBN 0-674-99617-8. $21.50.
Reviewed by Adam Kemezis, Bowling Green State University (akemezi@bgnet.bgsu.edu
I accessed it on 7/16/07. I don't want to fuss with the article on a subject about which I know nothing, but an editor may wish to put it in the reference list.
Apollonius sounds like an interesting and possibly important figure in the history of ideas, about whom we know little except for caricatures and allusions,like so many scraps from the Hellenistic times. His biography reinforces that there may have been some sort of intellectual contact/intercourse with India, not just trade. In the past, I have read speculation about the possible influences of Indian metaphysics on Plato four centuries earlier. Apollonian (?) traditions underline that this might have been possible, and not just for Plato. But in truth we have so little evidence to support or refute such speculations.
I have seen the Penn and Teller Bullshit episode where Michael Shermer states the glaring similarities between Jesus and Apollonius. However, I can't seem to find the source of these statements documents anywhere and they are not listed on this Wiki page either.
Some of the things claimed to be attributed to Apollonius are:
Do any of these claims hold ground? If so why are they not listed on this page, and where would one research these ideas more?
Indeed. The fact that sources on Apollonius are treated in this article with severe skepticism, while the biblical stories in the article on Jesus are not addressed with the same skepticism, is biased. 74.130.22.28 ( talk) 09:55, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Not only are those claims either made-up or simply twists on the story [to reflect Christianized language; only serving to enhance the supposed connection between the two], there are other claims that are completely wrong. For instance, there are no sources that suggest that Apollonius was a native speaker of Aramaic. I cannot find this in any accurate source. Neither can I find the idea that Jesus' teachings reflect Platonic teachings [when it clearly doesn't; just ask about any of the modern historical Jesus scholars]. It's also anachronistic to claim that Jesus was on a 'mission to bring Jewish culture to the nations'. In fact, the opposite is stated in the gospels ["I have come only for the lost sheep of Israel" (Matt. 15:24)]. Another issue of comparison; Apollonius may have indeed been called a 'savior from heaven' but whatever that meant in Apollonius' context meant something completely different in Jesus' context. The claim about Apollonius was not a direct challenge to Caesar; Jesus being proclaimed as Savior was a direct challenge. Plus, there is more than enough evidence to suggest that the earliest followers of Jesus did not conceive of him as a "Hellenistic savior" [assuming, for the moment, that early Christianity abandoned its Jewish theological roots], but rather as a Jewish prophet and Messiah. As pointed out by another user, "Messiah" only has meaning in a Jewish cultural and theological matrix. It would not have been used by the Greeks or the Romans to denote what was meant of Jesus. User:stormchaser23 2:03, 05 December 2015 (UTC)
Ascending to heaven is not merely "a Jewish concept", but is found throughout the various religions and myths of the world. Have you forgotten the apotheosis of Heracles in Greek religion? Arion 3x3 ( talk) 19:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Apaugasma,
A few questions for you about the Apollonius of Tyana article.
1. You put the Francis quote from the sources section to the historical facts section. May I ask why? Francis is specifically discussing the sources involved. This quote is a better fit in the sources section IMHO.
2. I checked the source for this quote: "This led to controversy, as critics believed Gibbon was alluding to Jesus being a fanatic." It was simply not there in the B.W. Young article. Unless I miss something, I think this is out of place.
3. "Hilton Hotema compared Apollonius to Jesus by noting that there is much historical data surrounding the life of the Tyanean, but that Jesus is unknown outside of the New Testament." This is well outside mainstream scholarship and demonstrably false. If this quote is included, a note should be made regarding this. There is ample evidence for Jesus outside the New Testament and virtually no early evidence for Apollonius, as demonstrated in the Wikipedia article.
Thank you. Rusdo ( talk) 04:28, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
Hello all, I'm a classics student playing through the rise of the tomb raider game and the first level seems to be alluding to Apollonius. Thoughts? 2601:603:5100:AC10:B035:E5E8:9820:405B ( talk) 02:32, 26 December 2021 (UTC)