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"The General Electric design for this spacecraft put all systems and space not necessary for re-entry and recovery into a separate jettisonable 'mission module', joined to the re-entry vehicle by a hatch. Every gram saved in this way saved two or more grams in overall spacecraft mass. In comparison with the NASA final Apollo design, the General Electric D-2 provided the crew with 50% more living space, an airlock, and a service module for the mass of the Apollo capsule alone. But in the end, NASA administrator James Webb examined the model of the D-2, thanked the contractor for its efforts, and announced that Apollo would use the NASA design without any consideration of alternatives."
The above paragraph is a direct copy from:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apollod2.htm
and is a copyright violation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Capnned ( talk • contribs) 05:13, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
The article is tagged, and could be deleted in one week. Please help to rewrite it at Talk:Apollo D-2/Temp. JustinTime55 ( talk) 17:12, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
There are repeated implications that the Soyuz capsule was copied from this design; but even the citation provided by it does not make this claim. If nobody objects, I shall remove it (alongside the picture of the Soyuz.) GrampaScience ( talk) 19:05, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Source materials from the British Interplanetary Society, Clark & Gibbons (1983) as well as John Pike at Global Security are now cited, where noted (or requested). User:beatgr. 11:22, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
The Astronautix page, of which this is almost a verbatim copy, is highly biased in two respects: 1) The implication is that GE was screwed by NASA, whose selection process was somehow improper; and 2) that the Soviets copied the design for Soyuz. While I might tend to believe the latter, this is still an unsupported conjecture and would fail verifiability, if a reliable external source can't be found.
This has to be rewritten in a neutral tone, and should be expanded with more details of what it actually looked like. Drawings of it are externally available; I thought all submissions to NASA requests for proposal (RFP's) became the property of the US government, so should be public domain. Does anyone know more about this? JustinTime55 ( talk) 21:07, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
The History is there, but the Chronological order, is hard to follow -- poor compilation in that period. JustinTime55 relies on a single NASA source document for all citations and viewpoints. Beatgr (18:23, 30 August 2012 (UTC))
The Apollo Spacecraft - A Chronology. Published as NASA Special Publication-4009. May 1961 http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/v1p2c.htm
Early Apollo concept reports (Contractor proposals and reports to NASA) are available on the NASA NTRS Technical Reports Server for free download in PDF format.
Apollo Configuration - NASA Space Task Group, 1961
Martin Proposal (Model 410), June 1961 - 6.4-MB PDF http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750064557_1975064557.pdf
Aerodynamics, configurations, heating, structures, and materials - 1961 - 30.1-mb PDF GE Apollo D-2 proposal http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19730064728_1973064728.pdf
A feasibility study of an advanced manned spacecraft and system. Volume 2 System considerations - 1961 - 8.7-MB PDF GE Feasibility Study, NASA Contract NAS 5-302, May 15, 1961 http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19730065795_1973065795.pdf
Project Apollo A feasibility study of an advanced manned spacecraft and system. Volume 9 Apollo program implementation plan - 1961 - 27.7-MB PDF http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740073801_1974073801.pdf
Project Apollo. Volume 2 Data book - 1961 - 13.3-MB PDF General Electric http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740073595_1974073595.pdf
Project Apollo. Volume 3 Data book - 1961 - 29.9-MB PDF General Electric http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740072452_1974072452.pdf
Apollo. Structures and materials. Volume 2 Thermal protection system - 1961 - 32.5-MB PDF General Dynamics/Convair/ AVCO http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740072482_1974072482.pdf
Apollo, volume 4 - Growth and advanced concepts Final report - 1961 - 4.3-MB PDF General Dynamics/Convair/ AVCO http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19790076966_1979076966.pdf
Apollo. Volume 5 Implementation plan. Book 1 Systems analysis, schedules and costs - 1961 - 3.7-MB PDF General Dynamics/Convair/ AVCO http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740073799_1974073799.pdf
Apollo Guidance and control system - 1961 - 67.5-MB - PDF General Dynamics/Convair/ AVCO, June 1961 http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740073599_1974073599.pdf
While this article no longer plagiarizes the Astronautix page dripping with "GE was robbed," I think it still leaves the reader with some misleading impressions contrary to the verifiable facts (undue weight and POV):
I think it would be much more informative to the Apollo program history to rename the article to something like Apollo spacecraft feasibility study and include as much information as we can find about all three designs, not just focusing on GE's. JustinTime55 ( talk) 19:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
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Anyone familiar with Project MALLAR 'Manned Lunar Landing and Return', a January 1960 study by Chance Vought? (thus pre-dating the three studies here). See Tom Dolan (engineer). Draft:Conrad Lau (engineer) could use some assistance. Thanks Andy Dingley ( talk) 18:58, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
"The General Electric design for this spacecraft put all systems and space not necessary for re-entry and recovery into a separate jettisonable 'mission module', joined to the re-entry vehicle by a hatch. Every gram saved in this way saved two or more grams in overall spacecraft mass. In comparison with the NASA final Apollo design, the General Electric D-2 provided the crew with 50% more living space, an airlock, and a service module for the mass of the Apollo capsule alone. But in the end, NASA administrator James Webb examined the model of the D-2, thanked the contractor for its efforts, and announced that Apollo would use the NASA design without any consideration of alternatives."
The above paragraph is a direct copy from:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apollod2.htm
and is a copyright violation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Capnned ( talk • contribs) 05:13, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
The article is tagged, and could be deleted in one week. Please help to rewrite it at Talk:Apollo D-2/Temp. JustinTime55 ( talk) 17:12, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
There are repeated implications that the Soyuz capsule was copied from this design; but even the citation provided by it does not make this claim. If nobody objects, I shall remove it (alongside the picture of the Soyuz.) GrampaScience ( talk) 19:05, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Source materials from the British Interplanetary Society, Clark & Gibbons (1983) as well as John Pike at Global Security are now cited, where noted (or requested). User:beatgr. 11:22, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
The Astronautix page, of which this is almost a verbatim copy, is highly biased in two respects: 1) The implication is that GE was screwed by NASA, whose selection process was somehow improper; and 2) that the Soviets copied the design for Soyuz. While I might tend to believe the latter, this is still an unsupported conjecture and would fail verifiability, if a reliable external source can't be found.
This has to be rewritten in a neutral tone, and should be expanded with more details of what it actually looked like. Drawings of it are externally available; I thought all submissions to NASA requests for proposal (RFP's) became the property of the US government, so should be public domain. Does anyone know more about this? JustinTime55 ( talk) 21:07, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
The History is there, but the Chronological order, is hard to follow -- poor compilation in that period. JustinTime55 relies on a single NASA source document for all citations and viewpoints. Beatgr (18:23, 30 August 2012 (UTC))
The Apollo Spacecraft - A Chronology. Published as NASA Special Publication-4009. May 1961 http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/v1p2c.htm
Early Apollo concept reports (Contractor proposals and reports to NASA) are available on the NASA NTRS Technical Reports Server for free download in PDF format.
Apollo Configuration - NASA Space Task Group, 1961
Martin Proposal (Model 410), June 1961 - 6.4-MB PDF http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750064557_1975064557.pdf
Aerodynamics, configurations, heating, structures, and materials - 1961 - 30.1-mb PDF GE Apollo D-2 proposal http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19730064728_1973064728.pdf
A feasibility study of an advanced manned spacecraft and system. Volume 2 System considerations - 1961 - 8.7-MB PDF GE Feasibility Study, NASA Contract NAS 5-302, May 15, 1961 http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19730065795_1973065795.pdf
Project Apollo A feasibility study of an advanced manned spacecraft and system. Volume 9 Apollo program implementation plan - 1961 - 27.7-MB PDF http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740073801_1974073801.pdf
Project Apollo. Volume 2 Data book - 1961 - 13.3-MB PDF General Electric http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740073595_1974073595.pdf
Project Apollo. Volume 3 Data book - 1961 - 29.9-MB PDF General Electric http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740072452_1974072452.pdf
Apollo. Structures and materials. Volume 2 Thermal protection system - 1961 - 32.5-MB PDF General Dynamics/Convair/ AVCO http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740072482_1974072482.pdf
Apollo, volume 4 - Growth and advanced concepts Final report - 1961 - 4.3-MB PDF General Dynamics/Convair/ AVCO http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19790076966_1979076966.pdf
Apollo. Volume 5 Implementation plan. Book 1 Systems analysis, schedules and costs - 1961 - 3.7-MB PDF General Dynamics/Convair/ AVCO http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740073799_1974073799.pdf
Apollo Guidance and control system - 1961 - 67.5-MB - PDF General Dynamics/Convair/ AVCO, June 1961 http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740073599_1974073599.pdf
While this article no longer plagiarizes the Astronautix page dripping with "GE was robbed," I think it still leaves the reader with some misleading impressions contrary to the verifiable facts (undue weight and POV):
I think it would be much more informative to the Apollo program history to rename the article to something like Apollo spacecraft feasibility study and include as much information as we can find about all three designs, not just focusing on GE's. JustinTime55 ( talk) 19:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Apollo spacecraft feasibility study. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:02, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
Anyone familiar with Project MALLAR 'Manned Lunar Landing and Return', a January 1960 study by Chance Vought? (thus pre-dating the three studies here). See Tom Dolan (engineer). Draft:Conrad Lau (engineer) could use some assistance. Thanks Andy Dingley ( talk) 18:58, 7 March 2020 (UTC)