This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Apollo鈥揝oyuz article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 365聽days聽 |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Per Deke Slayton, and verified by Andrew Chaikin and other space historians, Jack Swigert was in fact assigned to ASTP as CMP, but was removed prior to the official crew announcement as punishment for his involvement in the stamp scandal. The actual grounding wasn't for having actually been involved in the sale of the First Day Covers the A15 crew took with them to the Moon, but for having lied to Deke Slayton about whether he'd had any knowledge of the transaction. Although the NASA PAO recommended that Swigert be removed from the assignment because of his involvement - regardless of how peripheral it was - with the stamp scandal,, Deke Slayton confirmed numerous times before his passing that the actual reason was not that he was involved, but that Swigart had lied to Deke in the face repeatedly when interrogated about said involvement. [unsigned]
In the sentence "The assassination of Kennedy on November 22, 1963 and the removal from office of Khruschev on October 14, 1964, made any personal preferences of the respective leaders moot." the last word moot is a poor choice as there was no longer any need for debate or discussion.
Idyllic press ( talk) 18:20, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. 鈥 Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:19, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. 鈥 Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:38, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
This article currently contains the following:
The Americans also had their own concerns about Soviet spacecraft. Christopher C. Kraft, director of the Johnson Space Center, criticized the design of the Soyuz:"We in NASA rely on redundant components 鈥 if an instrument fails during flight, our crews switch to another in an attempt to continue the mission. Each Soyuz component, however, is designed for a specific function; if one fails, the cosmonauts land as soon as possible. The Apollo vehicle also relied on astronaut piloting to a much greater extent than did the Soyuz machine." [1]
I removed the last line because it's a criticism of the Apollo, not of the Soyuz. Editor BilCat claims that it is in fact a criticism of the Soyuz.
Reasons it is more likely a criticism of the Apollo:
This is an issue of likelihood--there isn't hard evidence either way. But that means we shouldn't be presenting it as criticism of the Soyuz. Dan Bloch ( talk) 03:19, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
It's a criticism of the the Soyuz and the Soviets - because they were not competent of flexible enough to trust the pilots. Active piloting is superior to automatic "spam in a can" operations.
References
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Apollo-Soyuz Test Project Flown Silver Robbins Medallion.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July聽15, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-07-15. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 18:48, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
NASA space-flown Apollo medallion for the Apollo鈥揝oyuz mission. Apollo鈥揝oyuz was the first crewed international space mission, carried out jointly by the United States and the Soviet Union in 1975. A United States Apollo capsule and a Soviet Union Soyuz capsule launched into orbit on July 15, and millions of people around the world watched on television two days later as the spacecraft docked and the two crews shook hands through the hatch. The project was a symbol of d茅tente between the two superpowers during the Cold War, and it is generally considered to mark the end of the Space Race, which had begun in 1957 with the Soviet Union's launch of Sputnik 1. Credit: Robbins Company for NASA; photographed by Heritage Auctions
Recently featured:
|
The Lead currently contains the following sentence and supporting reference 鈥...and it is generally considered to mark the end of the Space Race, which had begun in 1957 with the Soviet Union's launch of Sputnik 1. [1]鈥 The reference also contains the following quote 鈥淢ost observers felt that the U.S. moon landing ended the space race with a decisive American victory. [鈥 The formal end of the space race occurred with the 1975 joint Apollo鈥揝oyuz mission, in which U.S. and Soviet spacecraft docked, or joined, in orbit while their crews visited one another's craft and performed joint scientific experiments.鈥. I attempted to delete or modify 鈥淢ost observers felt that the U.S. moon landing ended the space race with a decisive American victory鈥 , however both my edits has been reverted by BilCat. I believe the section about "American victory" is not relevant to this sentence and should be removed. I also note that the article does not mention "American victory" anywhere, it only appears in tbe quote. Finally the comment about "American victory" is controversal and I note that the Space Race lead states the following:
Kennedy's Moon landing goal was achieved in July 1969, with the flight of
Apollo 11,
[2]
[3]
[4] a singular achievement considered by the Americans as overshadowing any combination of Soviet achievements that have been made. However, such an opinion is generally contentious, with others attributing the first man in space as being a much larger achievement.
[5]
In summary, I believe the quote "Most observers felt that the U.S. moon landing ended the space race with a decisive American victory" should be removed from this article. @ BilCat:, can you explain why you reverted my edits? Ilenart626 ( talk) 09:59, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
References
Most observers felt that the U.S. moon landing ended the space race with a decisive American victory. [鈥 The formal end of the space race occurred with the 1975 joint Apollo鈥揝oyuz mission, in which U.S. and Soviet spacecraft docked, or joined, in orbit while their crews visited one another's craft and performed joint scientific experiments.
Something else to consider: In my hometown, we hold an annual Manchester Road Race (in Connecticut, not England) on Thanksgiving day. The race is not over when the winner crosses the finish line, (A dying Stephen Boyd gasps to Charlton Heston, "The race goes on, Judah...it goes on!") since about half the town enters the race, of whom only about half bother to train for a run. The race is not over until the last untrained walker finishes. The US obviously "won" the Space Race when accomplishing the Moon shot, but the "race" (competition) did not in fact end, but the USSR continued with military programs like Almaz, Buran (spacecraft), and Polyus (spacecraft) until it collapsed in 1991. JustinTime55 ( talk) 22:25, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
Should probably mention the extreme ultraviolet work by apollo. I have a source and will add when I have time. 漏Geni ( talk) 19:20, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Apollo鈥揝oyuz article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 365聽days聽 |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Per Deke Slayton, and verified by Andrew Chaikin and other space historians, Jack Swigert was in fact assigned to ASTP as CMP, but was removed prior to the official crew announcement as punishment for his involvement in the stamp scandal. The actual grounding wasn't for having actually been involved in the sale of the First Day Covers the A15 crew took with them to the Moon, but for having lied to Deke Slayton about whether he'd had any knowledge of the transaction. Although the NASA PAO recommended that Swigert be removed from the assignment because of his involvement - regardless of how peripheral it was - with the stamp scandal,, Deke Slayton confirmed numerous times before his passing that the actual reason was not that he was involved, but that Swigart had lied to Deke in the face repeatedly when interrogated about said involvement. [unsigned]
In the sentence "The assassination of Kennedy on November 22, 1963 and the removal from office of Khruschev on October 14, 1964, made any personal preferences of the respective leaders moot." the last word moot is a poor choice as there was no longer any need for debate or discussion.
Idyllic press ( talk) 18:20, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. 鈥 Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:19, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. 鈥 Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:38, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
This article currently contains the following:
The Americans also had their own concerns about Soviet spacecraft. Christopher C. Kraft, director of the Johnson Space Center, criticized the design of the Soyuz:"We in NASA rely on redundant components 鈥 if an instrument fails during flight, our crews switch to another in an attempt to continue the mission. Each Soyuz component, however, is designed for a specific function; if one fails, the cosmonauts land as soon as possible. The Apollo vehicle also relied on astronaut piloting to a much greater extent than did the Soyuz machine." [1]
I removed the last line because it's a criticism of the Apollo, not of the Soyuz. Editor BilCat claims that it is in fact a criticism of the Soyuz.
Reasons it is more likely a criticism of the Apollo:
This is an issue of likelihood--there isn't hard evidence either way. But that means we shouldn't be presenting it as criticism of the Soyuz. Dan Bloch ( talk) 03:19, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
It's a criticism of the the Soyuz and the Soviets - because they were not competent of flexible enough to trust the pilots. Active piloting is superior to automatic "spam in a can" operations.
References
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Apollo-Soyuz Test Project Flown Silver Robbins Medallion.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July聽15, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-07-15. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 18:48, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
NASA space-flown Apollo medallion for the Apollo鈥揝oyuz mission. Apollo鈥揝oyuz was the first crewed international space mission, carried out jointly by the United States and the Soviet Union in 1975. A United States Apollo capsule and a Soviet Union Soyuz capsule launched into orbit on July 15, and millions of people around the world watched on television two days later as the spacecraft docked and the two crews shook hands through the hatch. The project was a symbol of d茅tente between the two superpowers during the Cold War, and it is generally considered to mark the end of the Space Race, which had begun in 1957 with the Soviet Union's launch of Sputnik 1. Credit: Robbins Company for NASA; photographed by Heritage Auctions
Recently featured:
|
The Lead currently contains the following sentence and supporting reference 鈥...and it is generally considered to mark the end of the Space Race, which had begun in 1957 with the Soviet Union's launch of Sputnik 1. [1]鈥 The reference also contains the following quote 鈥淢ost observers felt that the U.S. moon landing ended the space race with a decisive American victory. [鈥 The formal end of the space race occurred with the 1975 joint Apollo鈥揝oyuz mission, in which U.S. and Soviet spacecraft docked, or joined, in orbit while their crews visited one another's craft and performed joint scientific experiments.鈥. I attempted to delete or modify 鈥淢ost observers felt that the U.S. moon landing ended the space race with a decisive American victory鈥 , however both my edits has been reverted by BilCat. I believe the section about "American victory" is not relevant to this sentence and should be removed. I also note that the article does not mention "American victory" anywhere, it only appears in tbe quote. Finally the comment about "American victory" is controversal and I note that the Space Race lead states the following:
Kennedy's Moon landing goal was achieved in July 1969, with the flight of
Apollo 11,
[2]
[3]
[4] a singular achievement considered by the Americans as overshadowing any combination of Soviet achievements that have been made. However, such an opinion is generally contentious, with others attributing the first man in space as being a much larger achievement.
[5]
In summary, I believe the quote "Most observers felt that the U.S. moon landing ended the space race with a decisive American victory" should be removed from this article. @ BilCat:, can you explain why you reverted my edits? Ilenart626 ( talk) 09:59, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
References
Most observers felt that the U.S. moon landing ended the space race with a decisive American victory. [鈥 The formal end of the space race occurred with the 1975 joint Apollo鈥揝oyuz mission, in which U.S. and Soviet spacecraft docked, or joined, in orbit while their crews visited one another's craft and performed joint scientific experiments.
Something else to consider: In my hometown, we hold an annual Manchester Road Race (in Connecticut, not England) on Thanksgiving day. The race is not over when the winner crosses the finish line, (A dying Stephen Boyd gasps to Charlton Heston, "The race goes on, Judah...it goes on!") since about half the town enters the race, of whom only about half bother to train for a run. The race is not over until the last untrained walker finishes. The US obviously "won" the Space Race when accomplishing the Moon shot, but the "race" (competition) did not in fact end, but the USSR continued with military programs like Almaz, Buran (spacecraft), and Polyus (spacecraft) until it collapsed in 1991. JustinTime55 ( talk) 22:25, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
Should probably mention the extreme ultraviolet work by apollo. I have a source and will add when I have time. 漏Geni ( talk) 19:20, 11 April 2023 (UTC)