This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The first section ends with, "all that can be said with certainty is that it is perhaps a sequel to Julius Caesar. Uh...? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vandwedge ( talk • contribs) 12:09, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
The article as it stands contains the sentence:
Frequently vain, self-dramatizing and histrionic, the audience must sometimes laugh at her, but other times consider her a true tragic heroine.
Can we fix this? As it stands, it says that the audience is vain, self-dramatizing and histrionic, not Cleopatra, as presumably intended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.179.168.52 ( talk • contribs) 07:33, 21 December 2005
fireteddy: in my edit I removed the link "proving" Antony & Cleopatra has a masonic subtext, as it is conspiracy theorist mumbojumbo useless to an information-based article in an encyclopedia. If whoever first posted it needs it to be there, I'd recommend that it be placed in the External Links and not in the main body of the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fireteddy ( talk • contribs) 15:34, 30 March 2006
This is a blatant violation of WP:V. I hope I don't have to argue about that with you. 68.166.50.142 17:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
This article has been listed on WP:RFC/ART for the Freemasonry conflict (so this section should already have been created). Personally, I don't think the sources cited by User:Kit Marlowe at present qualify as reliable sources, so this should not be included. Trebor 20:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
There is not a great deal of need for those ignorant of The Occult Philosophy in the Elizabethan Age (a seminal work by Frances Yates) to lose hair over the status of the peer reviewed Hermetic Journal. If any one bothered to read the article cited they would see that it refers to unambiguous primary sources by the likes of Thomas Nashe and Gabriel Harvey, discussing their personal involvement with a "sworn brotherhood" tagged "maisonry" whose aim is to build up a spiritual temple, and whose jargon they clearly understand. These people would also do well to dip a toe in David Stevenson's book (CUP), The Origins of Freemasonry - Scotland's century 1590 - 1710'. They would also do well to ponder the Masonic symbolism carved into the walls of Rosslyn Chapel near Edinburgh. The only inscription in that building contemporaneous with its 15th century construction is the quotation from the book of Esdras cited in the Masoncode.com article as being a noticeable influence on the subtext of Antony and Cleopatra.
There is a large literature on the esoteric content of Shakespeare's plays, just as there is an even larger literature on the esoteric content of the Renaissance world. The self-appointed defenders of Shakespearean purity would do well to acknowledge this and open their minds to criticisms of Shakespeare that address the spiritual and intellectual aspirations of his time. The fact that esoteric philosophy is denigrated by the rational minds of today is no excuse for ignoring its prevalance or the esteem in which it was held by the intellectual elite of Shakespeare's day.-- Kit 17:01, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
In Act 3 Scene 3 servants reassure Cleopatra that Octavia has "brown" hair, which is not a sign of beauty in Elizabethan terms; today that's not necessaraily unattractive; the nearest I could come in modern English is "bad hair". Feel free to improve it! rewinn 06:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
"in order to help him fight against Pompey (Sextus Pompeius), Menacretes, and Menas, three notorious pirates."
I'm no expert but I'm quite sure Pompey wouldn't look too kindly on his being described as a pirate. Wasn't he given the job of clearing pirates from Roman seas? I could be wrong... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.33.22 ( talk • contribs) 15:00, 23 September 2006
Andy - to quote Wiki policy on NPOV: "For instance, that Shakespeare is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest playwrights of the English language is a bit of knowledge that one should learn from an encyclopedia. However, in the interests of neutrality, one should also learn that a number of reputable scholars argue that there is a strong case to make that the author of much of the work still attributed to Shakespeare was his contemporary Christopher Marlowe." Imagine my surprise - even the wiki policy page on NPOV cites the authorship question as a valid debate that "in the interests of neutrality" should be discussed. You need to stop trying to prevent opposing views from appearing on Wikipedia. Threatening to revert all edits that represent an opposing view is simply not justified. It is also clearly not the NPOV policy. Smatprt 06:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I removed this paragraph (although I just noticed that I wasn't signed in at the time): "She tests Octavius' intentions towards her by instructing her treasurer to 'betray' her when she gives Octavius an accounting of her wealth. When Octavius dismisses his statement that Cleopatra has held back information about her actual possessions Cleopatra realizes that, despite his promises of fair treatment, he intends to parade her at his triumph." Cleopatra certainly never instructs her treasurer to do anything in the play; I'm aware that some critics think it was a put-upon, but that's not unanimous (For example, Mary Rosenberg argues against it in "The Masks of Antony and Cleopatra"), so I thought it was inappropriate to have it there as a statement of hard fact. At any rate, it didn't make much sense as written; it's my understanding that those who believe that Seleucus was acting on her behalf argue that it was to fool Octavius into thinking she didn't plan to kill herself, not that it was some sort of test; what would it prove? Deadlyhair ( talk) 00:00, 17 August 2009 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deadlyhair ( talk • contribs) 00:00, 17 August 2009
Could anyone justify the choice to use historical names and not those of the play? This is about the play, it's not a history manual! 90.36.105.34 ( talk) 18:45, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
In the last few days this article has gone from just over 50k (the maximum recommended length for a Wikipedia article) to over 100k. The added material is opinion, analysis and commentary, of which there is no shortage when it comes to Shakespeare. The new material has wall-of-text paragraphs and clever but careless writing. I think there are also notability or undue weight issues with respect to how much space to devote to things that could be mentioned in passing. I suggest the original poster study Strunk and White's Elements of Style, then start chiseling away. Zyxwv99 ( talk) 23:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Just looking over the article, I'm seeing more recently added walls of text, in exactly the same style of writing from various posters such as "Allisonandtommy." For example:
Can anyone spot how many errors are in that paragraph? Cleopatra was not an aristocrat. The term "the nobility" encompasses both both royalty and aristocrats, but must be preceded by the definite article. "...it's a fact of modern society" contains a contraction ("it's") and is POV. Michael Moore has succeeded in transforming the cliche "inconvenient truth" into a politically-tainted cliche. Also, is "with the unforgettable irony" a typo or the quoted author's own words? Zyxwv99 ( talk) 00:00, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
If no one has the heart to revert the recent series of edits (obviously made in good faith), then it is time to begin the long, arduous task of editing the text to something at least remotely resembling encyclopedic prose. Zyxwv99 ( talk) 13:48, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
A couple of days ago, I made a request at the Shakespeare WikiProject to assess the article in light of the recent additions, as discussed above. I'm hoping that, with a detailed description of the new assessment and parts of the article that my have been worsened by the edits, careful pruning can be made to the walls of text without potentially compromising the scope and knowledge of the article. 109.149.73.110 ( talk) 15:50, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
On 2011-03-07, 173.185.182.62 replaced "Life of Marcus Antonius" by "Life of Garey Busey'"; subsequently 173.185.182.62 replaced that by "Lives". Neither did leave a comment. That's as it stands till today. Maybe someone feels competent to check that? -- Aisano ( talk) 18:09, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be better to use original title from First Folio ? 85.114.49.60 ( talk) 02:14, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
This is full of references beginning "critics say..." when only one critic is cited, which makes me suspicious that someone is pushing their own POV under the guise of selected critics, some of whom wrote 40 years ago. Seems to be a lot written by the same person Sceptic1954 ( talk) 22:46, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
This article seems to be largely plagiarized from here without source: https://books.google.com/books?id=rodfCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT149&lpg=PT149&dq=she+can+imagine+nothing+worse+than+being+led+in+chains+through+the+streets+of+Rome,+proclaimed+a+villain+for+the+ages&source=bl&ots=GXcHcTU56p&sig=GH_oVNTSBaTN222wO_KQj-9Nk38&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x9ZtVdW-KtKXyAT22IDgBA&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=she%20can%20imagine%20nothing%20worse%20than%20being%20led%20in%20chains%20through%20the%20streets%20of%20Rome%2C%20proclaimed%20a%20villain%20for%20the%20ages&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.255.81.56 ( talk) 16:20, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Antony and Cleopatra. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.gutenberg.net/etext/2268When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:29, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The first section ends with, "all that can be said with certainty is that it is perhaps a sequel to Julius Caesar. Uh...? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vandwedge ( talk • contribs) 12:09, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
The article as it stands contains the sentence:
Frequently vain, self-dramatizing and histrionic, the audience must sometimes laugh at her, but other times consider her a true tragic heroine.
Can we fix this? As it stands, it says that the audience is vain, self-dramatizing and histrionic, not Cleopatra, as presumably intended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.179.168.52 ( talk • contribs) 07:33, 21 December 2005
fireteddy: in my edit I removed the link "proving" Antony & Cleopatra has a masonic subtext, as it is conspiracy theorist mumbojumbo useless to an information-based article in an encyclopedia. If whoever first posted it needs it to be there, I'd recommend that it be placed in the External Links and not in the main body of the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fireteddy ( talk • contribs) 15:34, 30 March 2006
This is a blatant violation of WP:V. I hope I don't have to argue about that with you. 68.166.50.142 17:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
This article has been listed on WP:RFC/ART for the Freemasonry conflict (so this section should already have been created). Personally, I don't think the sources cited by User:Kit Marlowe at present qualify as reliable sources, so this should not be included. Trebor 20:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
There is not a great deal of need for those ignorant of The Occult Philosophy in the Elizabethan Age (a seminal work by Frances Yates) to lose hair over the status of the peer reviewed Hermetic Journal. If any one bothered to read the article cited they would see that it refers to unambiguous primary sources by the likes of Thomas Nashe and Gabriel Harvey, discussing their personal involvement with a "sworn brotherhood" tagged "maisonry" whose aim is to build up a spiritual temple, and whose jargon they clearly understand. These people would also do well to dip a toe in David Stevenson's book (CUP), The Origins of Freemasonry - Scotland's century 1590 - 1710'. They would also do well to ponder the Masonic symbolism carved into the walls of Rosslyn Chapel near Edinburgh. The only inscription in that building contemporaneous with its 15th century construction is the quotation from the book of Esdras cited in the Masoncode.com article as being a noticeable influence on the subtext of Antony and Cleopatra.
There is a large literature on the esoteric content of Shakespeare's plays, just as there is an even larger literature on the esoteric content of the Renaissance world. The self-appointed defenders of Shakespearean purity would do well to acknowledge this and open their minds to criticisms of Shakespeare that address the spiritual and intellectual aspirations of his time. The fact that esoteric philosophy is denigrated by the rational minds of today is no excuse for ignoring its prevalance or the esteem in which it was held by the intellectual elite of Shakespeare's day.-- Kit 17:01, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
In Act 3 Scene 3 servants reassure Cleopatra that Octavia has "brown" hair, which is not a sign of beauty in Elizabethan terms; today that's not necessaraily unattractive; the nearest I could come in modern English is "bad hair". Feel free to improve it! rewinn 06:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
"in order to help him fight against Pompey (Sextus Pompeius), Menacretes, and Menas, three notorious pirates."
I'm no expert but I'm quite sure Pompey wouldn't look too kindly on his being described as a pirate. Wasn't he given the job of clearing pirates from Roman seas? I could be wrong... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.33.22 ( talk • contribs) 15:00, 23 September 2006
Andy - to quote Wiki policy on NPOV: "For instance, that Shakespeare is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest playwrights of the English language is a bit of knowledge that one should learn from an encyclopedia. However, in the interests of neutrality, one should also learn that a number of reputable scholars argue that there is a strong case to make that the author of much of the work still attributed to Shakespeare was his contemporary Christopher Marlowe." Imagine my surprise - even the wiki policy page on NPOV cites the authorship question as a valid debate that "in the interests of neutrality" should be discussed. You need to stop trying to prevent opposing views from appearing on Wikipedia. Threatening to revert all edits that represent an opposing view is simply not justified. It is also clearly not the NPOV policy. Smatprt 06:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I removed this paragraph (although I just noticed that I wasn't signed in at the time): "She tests Octavius' intentions towards her by instructing her treasurer to 'betray' her when she gives Octavius an accounting of her wealth. When Octavius dismisses his statement that Cleopatra has held back information about her actual possessions Cleopatra realizes that, despite his promises of fair treatment, he intends to parade her at his triumph." Cleopatra certainly never instructs her treasurer to do anything in the play; I'm aware that some critics think it was a put-upon, but that's not unanimous (For example, Mary Rosenberg argues against it in "The Masks of Antony and Cleopatra"), so I thought it was inappropriate to have it there as a statement of hard fact. At any rate, it didn't make much sense as written; it's my understanding that those who believe that Seleucus was acting on her behalf argue that it was to fool Octavius into thinking she didn't plan to kill herself, not that it was some sort of test; what would it prove? Deadlyhair ( talk) 00:00, 17 August 2009 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deadlyhair ( talk • contribs) 00:00, 17 August 2009
Could anyone justify the choice to use historical names and not those of the play? This is about the play, it's not a history manual! 90.36.105.34 ( talk) 18:45, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
In the last few days this article has gone from just over 50k (the maximum recommended length for a Wikipedia article) to over 100k. The added material is opinion, analysis and commentary, of which there is no shortage when it comes to Shakespeare. The new material has wall-of-text paragraphs and clever but careless writing. I think there are also notability or undue weight issues with respect to how much space to devote to things that could be mentioned in passing. I suggest the original poster study Strunk and White's Elements of Style, then start chiseling away. Zyxwv99 ( talk) 23:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Just looking over the article, I'm seeing more recently added walls of text, in exactly the same style of writing from various posters such as "Allisonandtommy." For example:
Can anyone spot how many errors are in that paragraph? Cleopatra was not an aristocrat. The term "the nobility" encompasses both both royalty and aristocrats, but must be preceded by the definite article. "...it's a fact of modern society" contains a contraction ("it's") and is POV. Michael Moore has succeeded in transforming the cliche "inconvenient truth" into a politically-tainted cliche. Also, is "with the unforgettable irony" a typo or the quoted author's own words? Zyxwv99 ( talk) 00:00, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
If no one has the heart to revert the recent series of edits (obviously made in good faith), then it is time to begin the long, arduous task of editing the text to something at least remotely resembling encyclopedic prose. Zyxwv99 ( talk) 13:48, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
A couple of days ago, I made a request at the Shakespeare WikiProject to assess the article in light of the recent additions, as discussed above. I'm hoping that, with a detailed description of the new assessment and parts of the article that my have been worsened by the edits, careful pruning can be made to the walls of text without potentially compromising the scope and knowledge of the article. 109.149.73.110 ( talk) 15:50, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
On 2011-03-07, 173.185.182.62 replaced "Life of Marcus Antonius" by "Life of Garey Busey'"; subsequently 173.185.182.62 replaced that by "Lives". Neither did leave a comment. That's as it stands till today. Maybe someone feels competent to check that? -- Aisano ( talk) 18:09, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be better to use original title from First Folio ? 85.114.49.60 ( talk) 02:14, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
This is full of references beginning "critics say..." when only one critic is cited, which makes me suspicious that someone is pushing their own POV under the guise of selected critics, some of whom wrote 40 years ago. Seems to be a lot written by the same person Sceptic1954 ( talk) 22:46, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
This article seems to be largely plagiarized from here without source: https://books.google.com/books?id=rodfCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT149&lpg=PT149&dq=she+can+imagine+nothing+worse+than+being+led+in+chains+through+the+streets+of+Rome,+proclaimed+a+villain+for+the+ages&source=bl&ots=GXcHcTU56p&sig=GH_oVNTSBaTN222wO_KQj-9Nk38&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x9ZtVdW-KtKXyAT22IDgBA&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=she%20can%20imagine%20nothing%20worse%20than%20being%20led%20in%20chains%20through%20the%20streets%20of%20Rome%2C%20proclaimed%20a%20villain%20for%20the%20ages&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.255.81.56 ( talk) 16:20, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Antony and Cleopatra. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.gutenberg.net/etext/2268When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:29, 16 October 2016 (UTC)