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The 2,000-year-old Hellenistic Armenian city of Tigranakert was also struck by Azerbaijani artillery during this conflict.
There is no evidence that Tigranakert was ever shelled during the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war. The provided source states that Hamlet Petrosyan asserted that city of Tigranakert was struck by Azerbaijani artillery, however neither Armenia nor Azerbaijan have released information about the site.
As noted by @
ZaniGiovanni, source also states that group of intellectuals and scholars published an open letter in the Los Angeles Review of Books on 16 October where they noted following: We remind you that the site of the bombing includes archaeological sites such as the ancient Armenian city of Tigranakert.
However, what they say it not a evidence that Tigranakert was shelled, neither of them were there to claim that what they said is eyewitness. I searched other sources, and all of them refers to the Hamlet Petrosyan, without providing any evidences (no photos, no satellite images, no video footage, no witnesses), or other parties claiming that such happened.
We can not claim that something, that we are not even sure happened, was a act of Anti-Armenian sentiment. Any thoughts? A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 13:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi all, another issue I identified is with There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance. For instance, in 2008, Allahshukur Pashazadeh, the religious leader (Grand Mufti) of the Caucasus Muslims made a statement that "falsehood and betrayal are in the Armenian blood."
.
There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance.
- this part is pure original research, as sources do not state anything like that.
For instance, in 2008, Allahshukur Pashazadeh, the religious leader (Grand Mufti) of the Caucasus Muslims made a statement that "falsehood and betrayal are in the Armenian blood."
This part, combined with above sentence is actually SYTH. Also as per BLP it is not OK to cherry pick some words from what person said in order to imply something not stated in the article, and it is not related to media at all. Thoughts ?
A b r v a g l (
PingMe) 15:05, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance"and the latter is irrelevant without it. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 13:19, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance." is original research, nor the fact of the cherry picking of the words of living person. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 11:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
This is not a UNHCR publication. UNHCR is not responsible for, nor does it necessarily endorse, its content. Any views expressed are solely those of the author or publisher and do not necessarily reflect those of UNHCR, the United Nations or its Member Stateswhich clearly tells us that information should be attributed.
There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance.
For instance, in 2008, Allahshukur Pashazadeh, the religious leader (Grand Mufti) of the Caucasus Muslims made a statement that "falsehood and betrayal are in the Armenian blood."
Hi all. I finally found
full version of the source supporting The Azerbaijani historian Arif Yunus has stated that Azerbaijani school textbooks label Armenians with epithets such as "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical".
The statement wrongly implies that Yunus attributed that epithets to all Azerbaijani school textbooks, where in reality Yunus clearly wrote that mentioned epithets are from the "Я.Махмудлу, Р.Халилов, С.Агаев. Отечество" textbook. SO claim in the article is synth and possibly BLP violation, as it is wrongly attributes information to Yunus that he never stated. Moreover, Yunus talks about school textbooks approximately from 1992-2007 and today is almost year 2023, which means that his research is now outdated and can not be referred as something that is ongoing currently.
I reviewed Yunus' study and can say that he conducted analysis that explains processes in the region and Azerbaijan in the late 1990s and early 2000s, as well as how they influenced Azerbaijani school textbooks. So, if we are going to include material from Yunus' study to the article, we should do it properly, rather than merely picking a few words from it. We should do it in an encyclopedic manner, since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a vilification platform. I going to remove that statement for now. Any thoughts? A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 13:10, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
added "various" so it now cannot be interperted as referring to every single school textbook.- You did not get it, adding "various" does not fix the issue. Yunus's work clearly links "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical" to the one specific book "Я.Махмудлу, Р.Халилов, С.Агаев. Отечество, с. 10". We cannot attribute that epithets to all or various Azerbaijani school textbooks.
. Do you have any sources proving that the research is now outdated?- Do you have any sources poving that the research is not outdated? School text books are updated regularly, Yunus work is about 1990s-2000s, today is 2022. There is even no text book called "Отчесво" in the curent list of used text books. Thus, while citing his work we cannot imply that to present time. As I said above
if we are going to include material from Yunus' study to the article, we should do it properly, rather than merely picking a few words from it. We should do it in an encyclopedic manner, since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a vilification platform.A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 09:24, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Do you have any sources proving that the research is not outdated?What? 2000s was 20 years ago, how exactly it's "outdated"? What sources describe Yunus, a historian by profession, research as "outdated"? That's on you to prove, not anyone else. And please don't answer a question with a question. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 11:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
What? 2000s was 20 years ago, how exactly it's "outdated"? What sources describe Yunus, a historian by profession, research as "outdated"? That's on you to prove, not anyone else. And please don't answer a question with a question.- Prove what? That Yunus work is talking about 1990s-2000s text books, where today is 2022, ergo the research can be implied only to the textbooks from that period, but not to present time text books? What else common sense obvious things shall I prove? Thas earth is round?
Yunus clearly talks about books as in plural, then he brings the example of "Отчесво".- It is not a case of what you believe what Yunus wrote about. This "При этом, в отношении армян также используются все возможные негативные эпитеты («бандиты», «агрессоры», «коварные», «лицемерные» и т.д.)." is specifically cited to the "Отчесво". It is clear from the citation "17" that written right after that paragraph. You can check it by yourself on the page 7. Said that, I expect you to self-revert please. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 12:54, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Prove what?- prove that anybody with actual authority aside from yourself (a Wikipedia editor) calls Yusuf, a historian's research from 2000s, "outdated". ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 13:39, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
I explained to you above and quoted the actual text directly from the source. I'm not planning to repeat myself; Yunus talks about books (direct quote) and bring "Fatherland" as an example. Later, he even talks about a 7th grade book aside from the 5th grade "Fatherland":- Your last quote was irrelevant, as well as this one. Please carefully read what I wrote. Yes, Yunus talks about number of the 1990-2007 books, but the terms "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical" from the Yunus research are referencing specifically to the "Я.Махмудлу, Р.Халилов, С.Агаев. Отечество" textbook. Thus it is not correct to say "The Azerbaijani historian Arif Yunus has stated that various Azerbaijani school textbooks label Armenians with epithets such as "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical".".
prove that anybody with actual authority aside from yourself (a Wikipedia editor) calls Yusuf, a historian's research from 2000s, "outdated".- again, please read carefully what I wrote. I do not say that Yunus work is outdated, what I say that his work is applicable only to books printed 1990-2007. Implying that research, which reviewed books from specific date range, is also applicable to the books printed like 20 years later is ORIGINAL research. So ONUS is on the editors who want to link that research to the books which were printed after the research. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 15:02, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Yes, Yunus talks about number of the 1990-2007 books, but the terms "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical" from the Yunus research are referencing specifically to the "Я.Махмудлу, Р.Халилов, С.Агаев. Отечество" textbook.- Ok? That doesn't mean you have to remove sourced information. We can easily reword per source;
again, please read carefully what I wrote.You should really stop asking others to "read carefully" when there is a clear disagreement with you. You have been asked for 10th time to provide a source that states Yunus research is outdated. That's clearly not the case. Why do you assume that all of these Armenophobic books have miraculously disappeared in Az schools? This is what you need to prove. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 00:36, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
So after I addressed everything, now a historian "isn't reliable" because "pdf"?-eh, you addressed nothing, but I'm not planning to go into the details unless you prove me that source you referring to is reliable published and peer reviewed. As far as I'm concerned Yunus's research, which we were discussing here, is neither reliable published nor peer reviewed, which means use of it as a source for Wikipedia is unacceptable. So he question is are you convinced, or you still want me to take this obvious case to the RSN? A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 16:34, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
eh, you addressed nothing, but I'm not planning to go into the details...– this kind of comment summarizes your subpar understanding of policies and constantly repeating "outdated/agematters" for a mere 14yr old research without even providing a newer source that challenges it.
Yunus's research, which we were discussing here, is neither reliable published nor peer reviewed, which means use of it as a source for Wikipedia is unacceptable– Are you having a hard time picking your argumentation? You started this discussion with "statment wrongly implies", and after some back and forth, I suggested we reword per source itself mentioning the specific book 'Fatherland'. Now, you're saying "Yunus not reliable/peer-reviewed". First of all, Yunus's research is more than good enough as Yunus by profession is more than qualified (historian). And are all the sources on Wikipedia peer-reviewed? You yourself added sources that aren't peer-reviewed, do you want me to show the diffs? Why are you raising the bar exponentially for Yunus whom you simply don't seem to like, given how many times you switched your talking points regarding him. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 08:40, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
1) This - doesn't need your rewording as it's paraphrased. You're copying from the source itself without paraphrasing, which isn't an improvement and is basically WP:PLAGFORM.
2) This - are you denying that beheading of Armenians by Azeris happened during the 2020 War? It was wildly reported [3]. And why are you so adamant to write word for word 'per source'? We paraphrase here not copy-paste. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 13:39, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Again, this is completely fine paraphrased version and doesn't copy the source word for word. You really should be cautious of WP:PLAGFORM, Wikipedia takes copyright seriously.- The source should not be misinterpreted as a result of paraphrasing. WP:OR should also be followed, thus considering your argument, I paraphrased it accurately, and this is what I agree to:
The postage stamps were accompanied with illustration of a disinfection specialist standing over an Azerbaijan map and fumigating the Nagorno-Karabakh area. This provoked fury on social media, with allegations that ethnic Armenians in the region are depicted as a virus that must be "eradicated," as well as accusations of anti-Armenian sentiment.
I actually provided another source from Guardian, which you ignored for some reason. I'm suggesting we keep both per sources, this is what I'll agree to;- I don't see the encyclopedic value in doing that, and it looks like WP:SYNTH and WP:UNDUE, but not enough for me to pursue it. So go ahead and make that edit. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 07:38, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
I found another source for the record, which further confirms reference to Armenians and states;- no, that OPED published on barely known newspaper by the unknown authors is not suitable for Wikipedia. I did search for better sources beforehand, by the way, and did not find any respected source writing about that case, mostly bullshit propaganda sources.
We can easily expand using this source, further confirming reference to Armenians- those are only claims and online hysteria, I do not think that you will go anywhere with that. There is a postal stamp and there are reactions to it, so unless Azermarka will officially admit that this was the idea of stamp - there is no way you turning this claims into facts. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 16:38, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
those are only claims and online hysteria, I do not think that you will go anywhere with that. There is a postal stamp and there are reactions to it, so unless Azermarka will officially admit that this was the idea of stamp - there is no way you turning this claims into facts.
The Armenian-American community of Los Angeles is rightly outraged. I stand with them and share their outrage.
I am one of a handful of transgender public office holders in the country. I know what it is to be isolated. And I know it is often necessary to be strong.
.(Rachael Rose Luckey is a Transgender and Housing Rights Activist, living in Los Angeles. As President of the Rampart Village Neighborhood Council, she is one of only a couple of dozen openly transgender elected public officials in the country. In December 2020, Rachael Rose announced her run for Los Angeles City Council District 13 in the municipal elections in 2022. For more information go to www.rachaelroseforla.com.)
A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 18:54, 12 December 2022 (UTC)The postage stamps were accompanied with illustration of a disinfection specialist standing over an Azerbaijan map and fumigating the Nagorno-Karabakh area. This provoked fury on social media, with claims that ethnic Armenians in the region are depicted as a virus that must be "eradicated," as well as accusations of anti-Armenian sentiment.
The new source that you find is opinion piece / OPED. There are only 3 paragraphs about the stamp, and the rest story written by the Rachael Rose Luckey about herself. Here are some quotes:- Number of paragraphs doesn't change anything.
And actually, this opinion piece is kind of pre-election advertisement type of article, which is clearly visible from the articleThat's just your opinion.
I clearly explained why “seemingly” is original research and misinterpretation of the source, not going to repeat myself. So are we you happy with below?And I clearly explained that "seemingly" is a parahprased version of the source which doesn't repeated the source text, WP:PLAGFORM. I also provided additional source which confirms reference to Armenians, and even the Universal Postal Union rejecting to register the stamp as it was against their ethical standards.
was against their ethical standards.
The version that I proposed is the most accurate and reflects both what source states and reality. May I suggest that we achieve a consensus on version I proposed?- Not really, you don't seem to understand that "allegation" (your wording) doesn't represent the sources. I presented 3 more third party sources which support the current wording and beyond. Seem like your argumentation keeps changing to"non reliable" now based on your original research. These third party sources are perfectly fine for reporting about the rejected Armenophobic stamp, and I will repeat that it got rejected by Universal Postal Union for being a piece of garbage that was against their ethical standards. And please familiarise yourself with WP:SEALION. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 08:37, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
because??- because our discussion is about whether post stamp illustration seemingly depicting ethnic Armenians in the area were being as a virus in need of "eradicating", or it is claimed that post stamp illustration depicting ethnic Armenians in the area were being as a virus in need of "eradicating". The fact that post stamp was rejected by Universal Postal Union does not contribute to that discussion. Not also that, but also the panArmenian source you provided is low quality propaganda site, which is unacceptable for AA2 area.
And please familiarise yourself with WP:SEALION- We having a discussion, where you citing some low quality sources to support your point. Nevertheless, I explained my concerns on why they are unacceptable for statement of the fact, and since it is you who to include them - BURDEN and ONUS are with you. Yet you still talk about
3 more third party sources which support the current wording and beyond, and not only that, but also assert me in sealioning. I honestly can not understand your rationale, but I would advice to stop assertions and focus to the things that genuinely benefit dialogue.
If you still believe that sources you linked are suitable, then I would advice you to take them to RSN and reach consensus on their inclusion.- Actually you're the only person here believing that 3 third party sources reporting on this hateful stamp aren't RS and you prefer the wording from only one source while ignoring the 3 others supporting current wording and beyond. And you're the only one claiming "non RS". So please, follow your own advice. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 20:26, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
This should be mentioned [10] [11] [12] [13]. Super Dromaeosaurus ( talk) 08:50, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
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The 2,000-year-old Hellenistic Armenian city of Tigranakert was also struck by Azerbaijani artillery during this conflict.
There is no evidence that Tigranakert was ever shelled during the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war. The provided source states that Hamlet Petrosyan asserted that city of Tigranakert was struck by Azerbaijani artillery, however neither Armenia nor Azerbaijan have released information about the site.
As noted by @
ZaniGiovanni, source also states that group of intellectuals and scholars published an open letter in the Los Angeles Review of Books on 16 October where they noted following: We remind you that the site of the bombing includes archaeological sites such as the ancient Armenian city of Tigranakert.
However, what they say it not a evidence that Tigranakert was shelled, neither of them were there to claim that what they said is eyewitness. I searched other sources, and all of them refers to the Hamlet Petrosyan, without providing any evidences (no photos, no satellite images, no video footage, no witnesses), or other parties claiming that such happened.
We can not claim that something, that we are not even sure happened, was a act of Anti-Armenian sentiment. Any thoughts? A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 13:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi all, another issue I identified is with There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance. For instance, in 2008, Allahshukur Pashazadeh, the religious leader (Grand Mufti) of the Caucasus Muslims made a statement that "falsehood and betrayal are in the Armenian blood."
.
There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance.
- this part is pure original research, as sources do not state anything like that.
For instance, in 2008, Allahshukur Pashazadeh, the religious leader (Grand Mufti) of the Caucasus Muslims made a statement that "falsehood and betrayal are in the Armenian blood."
This part, combined with above sentence is actually SYTH. Also as per BLP it is not OK to cherry pick some words from what person said in order to imply something not stated in the article, and it is not related to media at all. Thoughts ?
A b r v a g l (
PingMe) 15:05, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance"and the latter is irrelevant without it. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 13:19, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance." is original research, nor the fact of the cherry picking of the words of living person. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 11:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
This is not a UNHCR publication. UNHCR is not responsible for, nor does it necessarily endorse, its content. Any views expressed are solely those of the author or publisher and do not necessarily reflect those of UNHCR, the United Nations or its Member Stateswhich clearly tells us that information should be attributed.
There is also wide media coverage of some statements made by Azerbaijani public figures and statesmen which demonstrate intolerance.
For instance, in 2008, Allahshukur Pashazadeh, the religious leader (Grand Mufti) of the Caucasus Muslims made a statement that "falsehood and betrayal are in the Armenian blood."
Hi all. I finally found
full version of the source supporting The Azerbaijani historian Arif Yunus has stated that Azerbaijani school textbooks label Armenians with epithets such as "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical".
The statement wrongly implies that Yunus attributed that epithets to all Azerbaijani school textbooks, where in reality Yunus clearly wrote that mentioned epithets are from the "Я.Махмудлу, Р.Халилов, С.Агаев. Отечество" textbook. SO claim in the article is synth and possibly BLP violation, as it is wrongly attributes information to Yunus that he never stated. Moreover, Yunus talks about school textbooks approximately from 1992-2007 and today is almost year 2023, which means that his research is now outdated and can not be referred as something that is ongoing currently.
I reviewed Yunus' study and can say that he conducted analysis that explains processes in the region and Azerbaijan in the late 1990s and early 2000s, as well as how they influenced Azerbaijani school textbooks. So, if we are going to include material from Yunus' study to the article, we should do it properly, rather than merely picking a few words from it. We should do it in an encyclopedic manner, since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a vilification platform. I going to remove that statement for now. Any thoughts? A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 13:10, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
added "various" so it now cannot be interperted as referring to every single school textbook.- You did not get it, adding "various" does not fix the issue. Yunus's work clearly links "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical" to the one specific book "Я.Махмудлу, Р.Халилов, С.Агаев. Отечество, с. 10". We cannot attribute that epithets to all or various Azerbaijani school textbooks.
. Do you have any sources proving that the research is now outdated?- Do you have any sources poving that the research is not outdated? School text books are updated regularly, Yunus work is about 1990s-2000s, today is 2022. There is even no text book called "Отчесво" in the curent list of used text books. Thus, while citing his work we cannot imply that to present time. As I said above
if we are going to include material from Yunus' study to the article, we should do it properly, rather than merely picking a few words from it. We should do it in an encyclopedic manner, since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a vilification platform.A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 09:24, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Do you have any sources proving that the research is not outdated?What? 2000s was 20 years ago, how exactly it's "outdated"? What sources describe Yunus, a historian by profession, research as "outdated"? That's on you to prove, not anyone else. And please don't answer a question with a question. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 11:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
What? 2000s was 20 years ago, how exactly it's "outdated"? What sources describe Yunus, a historian by profession, research as "outdated"? That's on you to prove, not anyone else. And please don't answer a question with a question.- Prove what? That Yunus work is talking about 1990s-2000s text books, where today is 2022, ergo the research can be implied only to the textbooks from that period, but not to present time text books? What else common sense obvious things shall I prove? Thas earth is round?
Yunus clearly talks about books as in plural, then he brings the example of "Отчесво".- It is not a case of what you believe what Yunus wrote about. This "При этом, в отношении армян также используются все возможные негативные эпитеты («бандиты», «агрессоры», «коварные», «лицемерные» и т.д.)." is specifically cited to the "Отчесво". It is clear from the citation "17" that written right after that paragraph. You can check it by yourself on the page 7. Said that, I expect you to self-revert please. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 12:54, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Prove what?- prove that anybody with actual authority aside from yourself (a Wikipedia editor) calls Yusuf, a historian's research from 2000s, "outdated". ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 13:39, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
I explained to you above and quoted the actual text directly from the source. I'm not planning to repeat myself; Yunus talks about books (direct quote) and bring "Fatherland" as an example. Later, he even talks about a 7th grade book aside from the 5th grade "Fatherland":- Your last quote was irrelevant, as well as this one. Please carefully read what I wrote. Yes, Yunus talks about number of the 1990-2007 books, but the terms "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical" from the Yunus research are referencing specifically to the "Я.Махмудлу, Р.Халилов, С.Агаев. Отечество" textbook. Thus it is not correct to say "The Azerbaijani historian Arif Yunus has stated that various Azerbaijani school textbooks label Armenians with epithets such as "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical".".
prove that anybody with actual authority aside from yourself (a Wikipedia editor) calls Yusuf, a historian's research from 2000s, "outdated".- again, please read carefully what I wrote. I do not say that Yunus work is outdated, what I say that his work is applicable only to books printed 1990-2007. Implying that research, which reviewed books from specific date range, is also applicable to the books printed like 20 years later is ORIGINAL research. So ONUS is on the editors who want to link that research to the books which were printed after the research. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 15:02, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Yes, Yunus talks about number of the 1990-2007 books, but the terms "bandits", "aggressors", "treacherous", and "hypocritical" from the Yunus research are referencing specifically to the "Я.Махмудлу, Р.Халилов, С.Агаев. Отечество" textbook.- Ok? That doesn't mean you have to remove sourced information. We can easily reword per source;
again, please read carefully what I wrote.You should really stop asking others to "read carefully" when there is a clear disagreement with you. You have been asked for 10th time to provide a source that states Yunus research is outdated. That's clearly not the case. Why do you assume that all of these Armenophobic books have miraculously disappeared in Az schools? This is what you need to prove. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 00:36, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
So after I addressed everything, now a historian "isn't reliable" because "pdf"?-eh, you addressed nothing, but I'm not planning to go into the details unless you prove me that source you referring to is reliable published and peer reviewed. As far as I'm concerned Yunus's research, which we were discussing here, is neither reliable published nor peer reviewed, which means use of it as a source for Wikipedia is unacceptable. So he question is are you convinced, or you still want me to take this obvious case to the RSN? A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 16:34, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
eh, you addressed nothing, but I'm not planning to go into the details...– this kind of comment summarizes your subpar understanding of policies and constantly repeating "outdated/agematters" for a mere 14yr old research without even providing a newer source that challenges it.
Yunus's research, which we were discussing here, is neither reliable published nor peer reviewed, which means use of it as a source for Wikipedia is unacceptable– Are you having a hard time picking your argumentation? You started this discussion with "statment wrongly implies", and after some back and forth, I suggested we reword per source itself mentioning the specific book 'Fatherland'. Now, you're saying "Yunus not reliable/peer-reviewed". First of all, Yunus's research is more than good enough as Yunus by profession is more than qualified (historian). And are all the sources on Wikipedia peer-reviewed? You yourself added sources that aren't peer-reviewed, do you want me to show the diffs? Why are you raising the bar exponentially for Yunus whom you simply don't seem to like, given how many times you switched your talking points regarding him. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 08:40, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
1) This - doesn't need your rewording as it's paraphrased. You're copying from the source itself without paraphrasing, which isn't an improvement and is basically WP:PLAGFORM.
2) This - are you denying that beheading of Armenians by Azeris happened during the 2020 War? It was wildly reported [3]. And why are you so adamant to write word for word 'per source'? We paraphrase here not copy-paste. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 13:39, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Again, this is completely fine paraphrased version and doesn't copy the source word for word. You really should be cautious of WP:PLAGFORM, Wikipedia takes copyright seriously.- The source should not be misinterpreted as a result of paraphrasing. WP:OR should also be followed, thus considering your argument, I paraphrased it accurately, and this is what I agree to:
The postage stamps were accompanied with illustration of a disinfection specialist standing over an Azerbaijan map and fumigating the Nagorno-Karabakh area. This provoked fury on social media, with allegations that ethnic Armenians in the region are depicted as a virus that must be "eradicated," as well as accusations of anti-Armenian sentiment.
I actually provided another source from Guardian, which you ignored for some reason. I'm suggesting we keep both per sources, this is what I'll agree to;- I don't see the encyclopedic value in doing that, and it looks like WP:SYNTH and WP:UNDUE, but not enough for me to pursue it. So go ahead and make that edit. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 07:38, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
I found another source for the record, which further confirms reference to Armenians and states;- no, that OPED published on barely known newspaper by the unknown authors is not suitable for Wikipedia. I did search for better sources beforehand, by the way, and did not find any respected source writing about that case, mostly bullshit propaganda sources.
We can easily expand using this source, further confirming reference to Armenians- those are only claims and online hysteria, I do not think that you will go anywhere with that. There is a postal stamp and there are reactions to it, so unless Azermarka will officially admit that this was the idea of stamp - there is no way you turning this claims into facts. A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 16:38, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
those are only claims and online hysteria, I do not think that you will go anywhere with that. There is a postal stamp and there are reactions to it, so unless Azermarka will officially admit that this was the idea of stamp - there is no way you turning this claims into facts.
The Armenian-American community of Los Angeles is rightly outraged. I stand with them and share their outrage.
I am one of a handful of transgender public office holders in the country. I know what it is to be isolated. And I know it is often necessary to be strong.
.(Rachael Rose Luckey is a Transgender and Housing Rights Activist, living in Los Angeles. As President of the Rampart Village Neighborhood Council, she is one of only a couple of dozen openly transgender elected public officials in the country. In December 2020, Rachael Rose announced her run for Los Angeles City Council District 13 in the municipal elections in 2022. For more information go to www.rachaelroseforla.com.)
A b r v a g l ( PingMe) 18:54, 12 December 2022 (UTC)The postage stamps were accompanied with illustration of a disinfection specialist standing over an Azerbaijan map and fumigating the Nagorno-Karabakh area. This provoked fury on social media, with claims that ethnic Armenians in the region are depicted as a virus that must be "eradicated," as well as accusations of anti-Armenian sentiment.
The new source that you find is opinion piece / OPED. There are only 3 paragraphs about the stamp, and the rest story written by the Rachael Rose Luckey about herself. Here are some quotes:- Number of paragraphs doesn't change anything.
And actually, this opinion piece is kind of pre-election advertisement type of article, which is clearly visible from the articleThat's just your opinion.
I clearly explained why “seemingly” is original research and misinterpretation of the source, not going to repeat myself. So are we you happy with below?And I clearly explained that "seemingly" is a parahprased version of the source which doesn't repeated the source text, WP:PLAGFORM. I also provided additional source which confirms reference to Armenians, and even the Universal Postal Union rejecting to register the stamp as it was against their ethical standards.
was against their ethical standards.
The version that I proposed is the most accurate and reflects both what source states and reality. May I suggest that we achieve a consensus on version I proposed?- Not really, you don't seem to understand that "allegation" (your wording) doesn't represent the sources. I presented 3 more third party sources which support the current wording and beyond. Seem like your argumentation keeps changing to"non reliable" now based on your original research. These third party sources are perfectly fine for reporting about the rejected Armenophobic stamp, and I will repeat that it got rejected by Universal Postal Union for being a piece of garbage that was against their ethical standards. And please familiarise yourself with WP:SEALION. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 08:37, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
because??- because our discussion is about whether post stamp illustration seemingly depicting ethnic Armenians in the area were being as a virus in need of "eradicating", or it is claimed that post stamp illustration depicting ethnic Armenians in the area were being as a virus in need of "eradicating". The fact that post stamp was rejected by Universal Postal Union does not contribute to that discussion. Not also that, but also the panArmenian source you provided is low quality propaganda site, which is unacceptable for AA2 area.
And please familiarise yourself with WP:SEALION- We having a discussion, where you citing some low quality sources to support your point. Nevertheless, I explained my concerns on why they are unacceptable for statement of the fact, and since it is you who to include them - BURDEN and ONUS are with you. Yet you still talk about
3 more third party sources which support the current wording and beyond, and not only that, but also assert me in sealioning. I honestly can not understand your rationale, but I would advice to stop assertions and focus to the things that genuinely benefit dialogue.
If you still believe that sources you linked are suitable, then I would advice you to take them to RSN and reach consensus on their inclusion.- Actually you're the only person here believing that 3 third party sources reporting on this hateful stamp aren't RS and you prefer the wording from only one source while ignoring the 3 others supporting current wording and beyond. And you're the only one claiming "non RS". So please, follow your own advice. ZaniGiovanni ( talk) 20:26, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
This should be mentioned [10] [11] [12] [13]. Super Dromaeosaurus ( talk) 08:50, 4 October 2023 (UTC)