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"Had the victors of World War I allowed it, Austria would have united with Germany as a freely taken democratic decision."
Bottom of third paragraph. This may be an artifact of an article that, from what I read in the discussion, originally had a good deal of bias. I'm not a Wikipedian, and will leave this to the better judgment of those who know their business here better than I do, but I love Wikipedia, and I did want to point it out. This is not a statement that belongs in an encyclopedic entry. Maybe in an op-ed. Again, others here will know the standards for this type of thing better than me, but I feel like it's pretty clear that an encyclopedia writer's task is not a matter of invoking conditionals or "would have's." Their task is not to interpret history for the reader in order to inform them of how things would have been if history had have been different. The writer's task is to inform the reader of the history that did occur. So, statements that there was strong support in both countries for unification, if cited, seem very much appropriate. On the other hand, statements declaring the course that history would have taken are normative (or at least conditional), and not positive/descriptive. Personal judgments regarding history's "might have been's" ought to be excluded, yes? Or at the very least, a statement like this should require a great deal of support, and lots of citations (I see none). Anyways, just calling attention to it. Thanks for your time, friends. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:14F:8300:C240:41BE:5783:31BE:CCED ( talk) 22:25, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
(cited from the introduction section, last paragraph)
Is there any reliable source supporting the above statement?
Even in the corresponding German article, which is highly influenced by Austrian writers, I can`t find anything supporting this claim. Don`t get me wrong I don`t question that the vote was highly undemocratic and a lot of presure was put on the Austrians to vote in favor of the Anschluss. But the above wording is implying that on the referendum day the Austrians were forced at gun point - or something like this - to vote for the Anschluss. And that`s something I never have heard about. 85.7.245.107 ( talk) 20:39, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
PS: Even in the main article about the referendum itself I couldn´t find anything supporting this “Forced by the Wehrmacht” statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.7.245.107 ( talk) 21:06, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
" A plebiscite with open ballot was held on the 10th of April, and threats and coercion were employed to manipulate the vote, resulting in 99.7% approval for the Anschluss" -> my change.
" A plebiscite was held on the 10th of April, in which the ballot was not secret, and threats and coercion were employed to manipulate the vote, resulting in 99.7% approval for the Anschluss" -> the original.
2 words are obviously more concise than 7 words, especially when they're saying the same thing. How is my sentence inferior than the original? 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:2D5E:4EB:3BAB:AC96 ( talk) 01:54, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Jon698 - can you please clarify which edit you intended to revert? I can't tell from your edit summaries. I provided a source for the date of 12 March 1938, do you have a different source? Thanks, Kiwipete ( talk) 22:46, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Anschluss article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | Anschluss is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 21, 2005. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"Had the victors of World War I allowed it, Austria would have united with Germany as a freely taken democratic decision."
Bottom of third paragraph. This may be an artifact of an article that, from what I read in the discussion, originally had a good deal of bias. I'm not a Wikipedian, and will leave this to the better judgment of those who know their business here better than I do, but I love Wikipedia, and I did want to point it out. This is not a statement that belongs in an encyclopedic entry. Maybe in an op-ed. Again, others here will know the standards for this type of thing better than me, but I feel like it's pretty clear that an encyclopedia writer's task is not a matter of invoking conditionals or "would have's." Their task is not to interpret history for the reader in order to inform them of how things would have been if history had have been different. The writer's task is to inform the reader of the history that did occur. So, statements that there was strong support in both countries for unification, if cited, seem very much appropriate. On the other hand, statements declaring the course that history would have taken are normative (or at least conditional), and not positive/descriptive. Personal judgments regarding history's "might have been's" ought to be excluded, yes? Or at the very least, a statement like this should require a great deal of support, and lots of citations (I see none). Anyways, just calling attention to it. Thanks for your time, friends. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:14F:8300:C240:41BE:5783:31BE:CCED ( talk) 22:25, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
(cited from the introduction section, last paragraph)
Is there any reliable source supporting the above statement?
Even in the corresponding German article, which is highly influenced by Austrian writers, I can`t find anything supporting this claim. Don`t get me wrong I don`t question that the vote was highly undemocratic and a lot of presure was put on the Austrians to vote in favor of the Anschluss. But the above wording is implying that on the referendum day the Austrians were forced at gun point - or something like this - to vote for the Anschluss. And that`s something I never have heard about. 85.7.245.107 ( talk) 20:39, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
PS: Even in the main article about the referendum itself I couldn´t find anything supporting this “Forced by the Wehrmacht” statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.7.245.107 ( talk) 21:06, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
" A plebiscite with open ballot was held on the 10th of April, and threats and coercion were employed to manipulate the vote, resulting in 99.7% approval for the Anschluss" -> my change.
" A plebiscite was held on the 10th of April, in which the ballot was not secret, and threats and coercion were employed to manipulate the vote, resulting in 99.7% approval for the Anschluss" -> the original.
2 words are obviously more concise than 7 words, especially when they're saying the same thing. How is my sentence inferior than the original? 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:2D5E:4EB:3BAB:AC96 ( talk) 01:54, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Jon698 - can you please clarify which edit you intended to revert? I can't tell from your edit summaries. I provided a source for the date of 12 March 1938, do you have a different source? Thanks, Kiwipete ( talk) 22:46, 16 June 2023 (UTC)