This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Anne, Queen of Great Britain article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
|
![]() | The contents of the Mary and Anne of Denmark page were merged into Anne, Queen of Great Britain. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
I think the titles of the infobox should follow that of George III, as in keeping “Queen of England, Scotland, and Ireland” and adding a footnote describing that from 1707 she was Queen of Great Britain and Ireland, thereby condensing her offices in the infoboxes. AKTC3 ( talk) 21:16, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Elizabeth II which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 18:46, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
Although I don't plan on starting a discussion in the near future, I do believe the page's name could change. A few things that need to be taken into account are that Anne's page name follows the structure of "Anne, Queen of X". Although by no means the only important thing to note, Google Searches are telling. Following said structure here are the results:
It's clear that changing the page's name to "Queen of Ireland" would simply not work, and "Queen of Scotland" add confusion with Anne of Denmark, wife of James VI and I. In fact, these two searches don't even identify Queen Anne as the person being searched. Although "Queen of England" does bring up more results than "Queen of Great Britain", this isn't always the case, and given she spent longer as Queen of Great Britain, it makes sense for this to remain the page's name.
However, looking at the following Google Search results:
It's clear that following the "Queen Anne of X" is far more recognizeable than "Anne, Queen of X". Moreover, if one looks at things like biographies of her, she is always referred to simply as "Queen Anne". Granted, as there have been many women named Anne to hold the title of queen - both queen consorts and regnants - it is understandable that there would be hesitancy to make Anne Stuart the primary topic. Especially when some of the other "Queen Annes" may be more popular than this Queen Anne is; whether in google searches or pageviews here on Wikipedia.
However, what is clear is that almost any discussion of Anne of Great Britain places her title as Queen before her name. Like her, we have "Queen Victoria", rather than "Victoria, Queen of the United Kingdom". Taking this into account, I would argue that if the page name were to ever change, it should follow the structure of "Queen Anne of X", rather than the present one. PanagiotisZois ( talk) 12:23, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
(non-automated message) Greetings! I have opened an RfC on WT:ROYALTY that may be of interest to users following this article talk page! You are encouraged to contribute to this discussion here! Hurricane Andrew ( 444) 19:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. After much-extended time for discussion, there is clear opposition to the proposed move, largely premised on an asserted ambiguity of the proposed target. BD2412 T 00:34, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
– "Queen Anne" is by far the most common way to refer to her. Yes, there were other Queen Annes, but they were either only consorts (i.e. Anne Boleyn) or they were obscure leaders of non-Anglophone countries. In English, the British monarchy is by far the most commonly discussed monarchy, so on English Wikipedia, it's entirely appropriate for the only Queen regnant named Anne to be "Queen Anne". "Anne, Queen of Great Britain" gets me 67,400 google results. "Queen Anne" gets me 28,000,000. She was also not just the Queen of Great Britain, she was also Queen of Ireland (and Queen of England and Scotland up until 1707), so let's ditch this inaccurate, awkward, uncommon title in favor of the more common and accurate way of referring to her. DieOuTransvaal ( talk) 23:24, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
more likely than all the other topics combinedto be the topic sought. Long-term significance would not seem to be in doubt either. Rosbif73 ( talk) 14:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
If the article is about the primary topic to which the ambiguous name refers, then that name can be its title without modification, provided it follows all other applicable policies.Wikinav is quite conclusive in showing that this article is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. There is no naming convention or other P&G that would tell us to use the longer existing title in a case such as this. The existing title was in accordance with WP:NCROY but this has been amended through RfC whereby the proposed move is now quite consistent with WP:NCROY. I would note that a consequence of this move is that Queen Anne (a disambiguation page) would need to be moved to Queen Anne (disambiguation) as a natural consequence. Cinderella157 ( talk) 11:12, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
irrelevant arguments: those that flatly contradict established policy, those based on personal opinion only, those that are logically fallacious, and those that show no understanding of the matter of issueshould be discarded.
There are many Annes that are queens, do not of themself address either of the key questions that resolve from the prevailing P&G. They do not show an understanding of the matter of issue. Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:24, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
There is no actual article that occupies the name space Queen Anne [...] at present, Queen Anne targets a disambiguation page from which a reader then selects the topic they seek.Queen Anne currently is the disambiguation page, not a redirect to one. 🌺 Cremastra ( talk) 00:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Note that even though most disambiguation pages are kept in the Article namespace (mainspace), they are not articles. These pages are aids in searching for articles.Nor in fuller context of what I have written does this reasonably suggest the term Queen Anne is a redirect. Targets, means where one arrives upon selecting a search term.
I would note that a consequence of this move is that Queen Anne (a disambiguation page) would need to be moved to Queen Anne (disambiguation) as a natural consequence[emphasis added]. Is it a procedural technicality? Yes. Is it sufficient reason for a procedural close or would procedurally closing the discussion on this technicality fall to WP:NOTBURO and WP:PETTIFOGGING? I would view it as the latter. Can it be remedied at this time by adding the move to Queen Anne (disambiguation). Yes. Is it necessary? Probably not, given it is a natural consequence unlikely to be reasonably contested - it is after all a disambiguation page. Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
If there is no other article with a common name claim to the article title name, the answer is self-evident. It is not. It does not follow that because there is no other article for which the common name is "Queen Anne", then "Queen Anne" must be the common name of this article. Nor does it follow that if this article is the primary topic for "Queen Anne", it's title must be "Queen Anne". Srnec ( talk) 04:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
It is not always possible to use the exact title that may be desired for an article, as that title may have other meanings, and therefore may have been already used for other articles. According to the above-mentioned precision criterion, when a more detailed title is necessary to distinguish an article topic from another, use only as much additional detail as necessary[emphasis added]. Article titles are primarily chosen by WP:COMMONNAME (per sources) unless there is no common name. Unless there is an article that would actually use the same name-space as Queen Anne, disambiguation is not required and should not be used unless a naming convention dictates otherwise. WP:NCROY no longer does this. It therefore does follow that if Queen Anne is the common name and no other article has an actual title competing for this article name space, then, this article should be titled Queen Anne.
Nor does it follow that if this article is the primary topic for "Queen Anne", it's title must be "Queen Anne".WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is telling us that it really, really should be, as does WP:NCROY and WP:TITLEDAB. Cinderella157 ( talk) 07:13, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
The article says: "She and her husband were "overwhelmed with grief".
" The sources are: "Luttrell, vol. IV, p. 674; Somerset, p. 163" But page 674 of Luttrell but says only "The princesse being overwhelmed with grief for the losse of his highnesse, intends on Saturday to retire ..." And I'm unable to see any mention on p. 163 of Somerset. Does that say they were both grief stricken? Thanks.
Martinevans123 (
talk) 16:11, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by proposer as the current article name is correct per WP:NCROY naming conventions. ( non-admin closure) Omnis Scientia ( talk) 20:43, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
– This move would match this article's name with the names of George I of Great Britain and George II of Great Britain. The other "Anne of Great Britain" is known in history of " Anne, Princess Royal and Princess of Orange" and is lesser known than Queen Anne. Omnis Scientia ( talk) 15:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Anne, Queen of Great Britain article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | Anne, Queen of Great Britain is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 21, 2005. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
|
![]() | The contents of the Mary and Anne of Denmark page were merged into Anne, Queen of Great Britain. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
I think the titles of the infobox should follow that of George III, as in keeping “Queen of England, Scotland, and Ireland” and adding a footnote describing that from 1707 she was Queen of Great Britain and Ireland, thereby condensing her offices in the infoboxes. AKTC3 ( talk) 21:16, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Elizabeth II which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 18:46, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
Although I don't plan on starting a discussion in the near future, I do believe the page's name could change. A few things that need to be taken into account are that Anne's page name follows the structure of "Anne, Queen of X". Although by no means the only important thing to note, Google Searches are telling. Following said structure here are the results:
It's clear that changing the page's name to "Queen of Ireland" would simply not work, and "Queen of Scotland" add confusion with Anne of Denmark, wife of James VI and I. In fact, these two searches don't even identify Queen Anne as the person being searched. Although "Queen of England" does bring up more results than "Queen of Great Britain", this isn't always the case, and given she spent longer as Queen of Great Britain, it makes sense for this to remain the page's name.
However, looking at the following Google Search results:
It's clear that following the "Queen Anne of X" is far more recognizeable than "Anne, Queen of X". Moreover, if one looks at things like biographies of her, she is always referred to simply as "Queen Anne". Granted, as there have been many women named Anne to hold the title of queen - both queen consorts and regnants - it is understandable that there would be hesitancy to make Anne Stuart the primary topic. Especially when some of the other "Queen Annes" may be more popular than this Queen Anne is; whether in google searches or pageviews here on Wikipedia.
However, what is clear is that almost any discussion of Anne of Great Britain places her title as Queen before her name. Like her, we have "Queen Victoria", rather than "Victoria, Queen of the United Kingdom". Taking this into account, I would argue that if the page name were to ever change, it should follow the structure of "Queen Anne of X", rather than the present one. PanagiotisZois ( talk) 12:23, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
(non-automated message) Greetings! I have opened an RfC on WT:ROYALTY that may be of interest to users following this article talk page! You are encouraged to contribute to this discussion here! Hurricane Andrew ( 444) 19:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. After much-extended time for discussion, there is clear opposition to the proposed move, largely premised on an asserted ambiguity of the proposed target. BD2412 T 00:34, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
– "Queen Anne" is by far the most common way to refer to her. Yes, there were other Queen Annes, but they were either only consorts (i.e. Anne Boleyn) or they were obscure leaders of non-Anglophone countries. In English, the British monarchy is by far the most commonly discussed monarchy, so on English Wikipedia, it's entirely appropriate for the only Queen regnant named Anne to be "Queen Anne". "Anne, Queen of Great Britain" gets me 67,400 google results. "Queen Anne" gets me 28,000,000. She was also not just the Queen of Great Britain, she was also Queen of Ireland (and Queen of England and Scotland up until 1707), so let's ditch this inaccurate, awkward, uncommon title in favor of the more common and accurate way of referring to her. DieOuTransvaal ( talk) 23:24, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
more likely than all the other topics combinedto be the topic sought. Long-term significance would not seem to be in doubt either. Rosbif73 ( talk) 14:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
If the article is about the primary topic to which the ambiguous name refers, then that name can be its title without modification, provided it follows all other applicable policies.Wikinav is quite conclusive in showing that this article is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. There is no naming convention or other P&G that would tell us to use the longer existing title in a case such as this. The existing title was in accordance with WP:NCROY but this has been amended through RfC whereby the proposed move is now quite consistent with WP:NCROY. I would note that a consequence of this move is that Queen Anne (a disambiguation page) would need to be moved to Queen Anne (disambiguation) as a natural consequence. Cinderella157 ( talk) 11:12, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
irrelevant arguments: those that flatly contradict established policy, those based on personal opinion only, those that are logically fallacious, and those that show no understanding of the matter of issueshould be discarded.
There are many Annes that are queens, do not of themself address either of the key questions that resolve from the prevailing P&G. They do not show an understanding of the matter of issue. Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:24, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
There is no actual article that occupies the name space Queen Anne [...] at present, Queen Anne targets a disambiguation page from which a reader then selects the topic they seek.Queen Anne currently is the disambiguation page, not a redirect to one. 🌺 Cremastra ( talk) 00:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Note that even though most disambiguation pages are kept in the Article namespace (mainspace), they are not articles. These pages are aids in searching for articles.Nor in fuller context of what I have written does this reasonably suggest the term Queen Anne is a redirect. Targets, means where one arrives upon selecting a search term.
I would note that a consequence of this move is that Queen Anne (a disambiguation page) would need to be moved to Queen Anne (disambiguation) as a natural consequence[emphasis added]. Is it a procedural technicality? Yes. Is it sufficient reason for a procedural close or would procedurally closing the discussion on this technicality fall to WP:NOTBURO and WP:PETTIFOGGING? I would view it as the latter. Can it be remedied at this time by adding the move to Queen Anne (disambiguation). Yes. Is it necessary? Probably not, given it is a natural consequence unlikely to be reasonably contested - it is after all a disambiguation page. Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
If there is no other article with a common name claim to the article title name, the answer is self-evident. It is not. It does not follow that because there is no other article for which the common name is "Queen Anne", then "Queen Anne" must be the common name of this article. Nor does it follow that if this article is the primary topic for "Queen Anne", it's title must be "Queen Anne". Srnec ( talk) 04:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
It is not always possible to use the exact title that may be desired for an article, as that title may have other meanings, and therefore may have been already used for other articles. According to the above-mentioned precision criterion, when a more detailed title is necessary to distinguish an article topic from another, use only as much additional detail as necessary[emphasis added]. Article titles are primarily chosen by WP:COMMONNAME (per sources) unless there is no common name. Unless there is an article that would actually use the same name-space as Queen Anne, disambiguation is not required and should not be used unless a naming convention dictates otherwise. WP:NCROY no longer does this. It therefore does follow that if Queen Anne is the common name and no other article has an actual title competing for this article name space, then, this article should be titled Queen Anne.
Nor does it follow that if this article is the primary topic for "Queen Anne", it's title must be "Queen Anne".WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is telling us that it really, really should be, as does WP:NCROY and WP:TITLEDAB. Cinderella157 ( talk) 07:13, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
The article says: "She and her husband were "overwhelmed with grief".
" The sources are: "Luttrell, vol. IV, p. 674; Somerset, p. 163" But page 674 of Luttrell but says only "The princesse being overwhelmed with grief for the losse of his highnesse, intends on Saturday to retire ..." And I'm unable to see any mention on p. 163 of Somerset. Does that say they were both grief stricken? Thanks.
Martinevans123 (
talk) 16:11, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by proposer as the current article name is correct per WP:NCROY naming conventions. ( non-admin closure) Omnis Scientia ( talk) 20:43, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
– This move would match this article's name with the names of George I of Great Britain and George II of Great Britain. The other "Anne of Great Britain" is known in history of " Anne, Princess Royal and Princess of Orange" and is lesser known than Queen Anne. Omnis Scientia ( talk) 15:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)