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I am going to create an article entitled Andy Murray's breakthrough year to deal with the long yet useful and interesting material from 2005.
Dont hold me to a deadline but this'll happen - eventually!
Good idea. Maybe call it Andy Murray in 2005 and then have "The breakthrough year" as a sort of side heading. Alec McEnemin 15:02, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
That seems like a big enough concensus! I'm onto it.
I personally know Andy Murray as we were in the same tennis squad as juniors. I can assure that he never had a football trial with Rangers FC. I have played football with him on many occasions, we killed time between matches at tournaments this way and he wasn't good enough to have a trial with them :)
Someone's added in that Murray had a trial with Rangers. I think this is extremely unlikely. Unless anyone can prove this, I think it should be removed.
This BBC article says 'having got into trouble with some earlier comments on the England football team' - what where these comments? Perhaps we can add them to the article. Skinnyweed 21:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
I think so: the levels of outrage that the comments generated were enough to make them noteworthy, and to generate a large amount of hate mail on his website, as well as to reach the BBC etc..
I'll do some research, try to get the relevent references, and then attempt an NPOV paragraph about it (frightening thought) RobbieC 18:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I find it odd that the section on Wimbledon 2005, in which he only reached the 3rd round, is much longer than the section on Wimbledon 2006, where he reached the 4th round. Jamandell (d69) 15:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The strategy of giving POV detailed info on each and every tournament Andy plays, will backfire very soon. He is young, and likely to be around for some time. So my advice would be to remove (at least) the first-round losses in non-Slam events. Just a suggestion.-- HJ 23:37, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi HJensen - I'm sure you're right. I think the 2005 tournaments have already been greatly tidied up, and I'm sure the 2006 ones will be as well as the page gets longer and more unwieldy. However, this is an iterative process, and we'll find that the more recent matches will get added pretty much as they happen, and then the more difficult summarising process will begin once there's some perspective (and some editorial time) to play with.
RobbieC
21:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Maybe you could make a page called Andrew Murray's Career Results or somthing. and just have Semi- Final , Final and tournements hes won on the Main page. but also the Semi- Final , Final and tournements hes won on the Results page.
Bobo6balde66
16:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to say that Murray is noted for his "natural talent" in the introduction? I think you would be hard pushed to find a tennis player who isn't.
At many points in the match against Nadal at the australian open 2007 murray did some threatening gestures to brad. at one point he made the "we're finished", theres a video in youtube showing he actually said 'you fking twat'. now why on earth are they still together?What happened after this incident
The 'Controversy' section is pretty poorly written. I tried improving it but it would be better if someone with more experience could rewrite or at least edit it. Veesicle 13:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The info box at the side says he got to the 3rd round at the US open in 2004. This was a suprise to me as I thought he only played in the junior competition in that year. Also, I can see no furhter mention of this in the article, which, if true should be mentioned as it's a major achievment. Can anyone confirm that this is ture or not. Evil Eye 11:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
It's not. He won the Junior's that year, but did not play in the Seniors: ATP activity - 2004
His only entry was last year, when he went out in the second round (R64) ATP activity - 2005 I'll change the article. RobbieC 14:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Someone added the link to the activeboard website again and also put MurraysWorld to the bottom... again. As we came to an agreement over this and currently it does not allow for any more links to be added, I have removed the link. If someone would leave the user a message about this (I don't know how) then that would be great. Mark7144 20:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
That is incorrect. I should also remind you, with all due respect to him, that Wangi is JUST a user and should not be considered as a person of authority. A consensus was reached even with wangi's acceptance and MurraysWorld was allowed to be added to this site. Potential inclusion of other fan sites were also addressed but it was decided upon not to add anymore links at this time. Removing MurraysWorld or adding a site without discussing it here first is now considered vandalism. Read the FULL archive to confirm this - thank you. Mark7144 21:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Mark, you're not a person of authority here either. I have added the Andy Murray message board back as it was the first ever Murray fansite setup in July 2003 long, long, long before Murraysworld had even before thought of and before you'd even heard of Andy Murray. It seems a bit stupid not to have that site aswell if MW is included. {Uns-ip|86.17.154.196}}
I read the archive discussion which all seemed a bit petty and stupid and I don't know why people just didn't leave it as it was. I've added the activeboard site back, you have no authority to remove it and I'll keep adding it until a person of authority arrives here. Stuff the Wiki community thing, this is a news resource not a community, and the activeboard site link is a useful resource as it provides many things which other sites don't have. Explain what you mean by Alexa ranking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.154.196 ( talk • contribs • WHOIS)
Wangi removed the link and although wangi is no admin he does have a ridiculous number of admin acquittances so it may now be a good idea to follow procedure outlined in the archive. Mark7144 21:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Let's see if User:86.17.154.196 feels they want to put in the (considerable) effort that woudl be involved in getting consensus for the addition of the link. If they do, I'd certainly support their cause, but I don't want to see this turn into a repeat of the edit war we had before: unfortunately, now that this has become an issue, the link will keep getting removed unless such a consensus is reached. Gaining the consensus will be a lot of work too, as I think most editors have found the edit wars and discussions pretty tedious, and would want to stick with the status quo. RobbieC 10:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Several points to make, [a] it's not my site, I'm just a member there [b] I've read the discussion on the archive, was without internet connection while it was taking place. Just basing sites on alexa ranking seems a bit stupid to me. It's the longest running Murray fansite, was started in 2003. Mark claims his site is the longest running but that's very much erroneous as his site started in 2005. The Andy Murray message board should be included because:
If that's the case Wangi, why on earth is Wikipedia linking to MW then ?
Also, there's no gossip, rumours or unverified material on that message board, check it thoroughly if you want. Plenty of that on MW to tell the truth. Your definition says "However, there are exceptions, such as in cases where the article is about, or closely related to, the website itself, or where the website is of a particularly high standard". This IS the case with the Andy Murray message board ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.253.115.67 ( talk • contribs • WHOIS)
I am so glad that AMMB is no included on this wiki-page, it is a British player site now, not an Andy Murray site, by the administrator's own admission. MW and the official site are now linked and even have a shared moderator.
Someone who clearly doesn't understand that Cincinatti is a different tourny than Rogers Masters deleted the entire Rogers Masters section, and then someone else, most probably accidentally removed the second half of Murray's year. Could someone who knows how to fix this (revert to earlier revision or something) please do?-- Flute138 10:23, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
rather than just a bit under his bar, how about the chart to show grand slam performance see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Federer#Performance_timeline for an example
I'm not a regular contributor to this article, but upon finding it I was sticken by the descriptions of every senior tournament Andy has ever played in. It's not the length that is a problem as such, but it is out of stpe with other tennis articles- for example Roger Federer#Career is a free-flowing description of Federer's achievements, whereas Andy's career section is much more jerky, and full of unsourced statements, for example, "After the match Murray criticized the British media for expecting too much from him at such an early age." in Andy Murray (tennis player)#Australian Open. I think that a description containing only notable tournemants (those that he performed exceptionally well in, such as where he won, was a finalist, or had a notable victory with the exception of his earliest tournaments) would not only be easier to source, but would also be much more quickly informative. When Andy did not perform well, statements such as 'Murray failed to reach past the quarter finals of his next X tournaments' could easily summarise his performance and prevent the article becoming an indiscriminate repository on information.
I'm not an expert on murray's career, and while you have had a minor discussion at Talk:Andrew Murray (tennis player)/Archive 1#Length of article, this has been archived and Ithe article still needs changing. If necessary, a separate article could be created for tournament results as suggested. In any case, I disagree with this discussion saying that 'more recent matches will get added pretty much as they happen'becuase there isn't any need to do thsi unless, as suggested before, they are notable.
To round this off, I think that users with more knowledge of Murray's career should reduce or move to a separate article the current results section, and instead create a more brief summary, mcuh like that on other tennis player articles, containing only notable tournaments. Thanks. OSmeone 20:08, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
The sections covering the tournament results were starting to look like a long blog entry so I reformatted and shortened the 2005 section. Maybe a tournament table would be more appropriate. I already forgot 22:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I suggest we change the 2005 and 2006 entries into forms much like the Andre Agassi article, where each year is written in a paragraph form, detailing the players various achievements and performances, rather than a tournament-to-tournament kind of format...what say you guys to this? The current form, IMO, looks rather unprofessional, and unencylopaedic...-- Flute138 23:58, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
I am going to create an article entitled Andy Murray's breakthrough year to deal with the long yet useful and interesting material from 2005.
Dont hold me to a deadline but this'll happen - eventually!
Good idea. Maybe call it Andy Murray in 2005 and then have "The breakthrough year" as a sort of side heading. Alec McEnemin 15:02, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
That seems like a big enough concensus! I'm onto it.
I personally know Andy Murray as we were in the same tennis squad as juniors. I can assure that he never had a football trial with Rangers FC. I have played football with him on many occasions, we killed time between matches at tournaments this way and he wasn't good enough to have a trial with them :)
Someone's added in that Murray had a trial with Rangers. I think this is extremely unlikely. Unless anyone can prove this, I think it should be removed.
This BBC article says 'having got into trouble with some earlier comments on the England football team' - what where these comments? Perhaps we can add them to the article. Skinnyweed 21:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
I think so: the levels of outrage that the comments generated were enough to make them noteworthy, and to generate a large amount of hate mail on his website, as well as to reach the BBC etc..
I'll do some research, try to get the relevent references, and then attempt an NPOV paragraph about it (frightening thought) RobbieC 18:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I find it odd that the section on Wimbledon 2005, in which he only reached the 3rd round, is much longer than the section on Wimbledon 2006, where he reached the 4th round. Jamandell (d69) 15:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The strategy of giving POV detailed info on each and every tournament Andy plays, will backfire very soon. He is young, and likely to be around for some time. So my advice would be to remove (at least) the first-round losses in non-Slam events. Just a suggestion.-- HJ 23:37, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi HJensen - I'm sure you're right. I think the 2005 tournaments have already been greatly tidied up, and I'm sure the 2006 ones will be as well as the page gets longer and more unwieldy. However, this is an iterative process, and we'll find that the more recent matches will get added pretty much as they happen, and then the more difficult summarising process will begin once there's some perspective (and some editorial time) to play with.
RobbieC
21:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Maybe you could make a page called Andrew Murray's Career Results or somthing. and just have Semi- Final , Final and tournements hes won on the Main page. but also the Semi- Final , Final and tournements hes won on the Results page.
Bobo6balde66
16:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to say that Murray is noted for his "natural talent" in the introduction? I think you would be hard pushed to find a tennis player who isn't.
At many points in the match against Nadal at the australian open 2007 murray did some threatening gestures to brad. at one point he made the "we're finished", theres a video in youtube showing he actually said 'you fking twat'. now why on earth are they still together?What happened after this incident
The 'Controversy' section is pretty poorly written. I tried improving it but it would be better if someone with more experience could rewrite or at least edit it. Veesicle 13:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The info box at the side says he got to the 3rd round at the US open in 2004. This was a suprise to me as I thought he only played in the junior competition in that year. Also, I can see no furhter mention of this in the article, which, if true should be mentioned as it's a major achievment. Can anyone confirm that this is ture or not. Evil Eye 11:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
It's not. He won the Junior's that year, but did not play in the Seniors: ATP activity - 2004
His only entry was last year, when he went out in the second round (R64) ATP activity - 2005 I'll change the article. RobbieC 14:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Someone added the link to the activeboard website again and also put MurraysWorld to the bottom... again. As we came to an agreement over this and currently it does not allow for any more links to be added, I have removed the link. If someone would leave the user a message about this (I don't know how) then that would be great. Mark7144 20:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
That is incorrect. I should also remind you, with all due respect to him, that Wangi is JUST a user and should not be considered as a person of authority. A consensus was reached even with wangi's acceptance and MurraysWorld was allowed to be added to this site. Potential inclusion of other fan sites were also addressed but it was decided upon not to add anymore links at this time. Removing MurraysWorld or adding a site without discussing it here first is now considered vandalism. Read the FULL archive to confirm this - thank you. Mark7144 21:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Mark, you're not a person of authority here either. I have added the Andy Murray message board back as it was the first ever Murray fansite setup in July 2003 long, long, long before Murraysworld had even before thought of and before you'd even heard of Andy Murray. It seems a bit stupid not to have that site aswell if MW is included. {Uns-ip|86.17.154.196}}
I read the archive discussion which all seemed a bit petty and stupid and I don't know why people just didn't leave it as it was. I've added the activeboard site back, you have no authority to remove it and I'll keep adding it until a person of authority arrives here. Stuff the Wiki community thing, this is a news resource not a community, and the activeboard site link is a useful resource as it provides many things which other sites don't have. Explain what you mean by Alexa ranking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.154.196 ( talk • contribs • WHOIS)
Wangi removed the link and although wangi is no admin he does have a ridiculous number of admin acquittances so it may now be a good idea to follow procedure outlined in the archive. Mark7144 21:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Let's see if User:86.17.154.196 feels they want to put in the (considerable) effort that woudl be involved in getting consensus for the addition of the link. If they do, I'd certainly support their cause, but I don't want to see this turn into a repeat of the edit war we had before: unfortunately, now that this has become an issue, the link will keep getting removed unless such a consensus is reached. Gaining the consensus will be a lot of work too, as I think most editors have found the edit wars and discussions pretty tedious, and would want to stick with the status quo. RobbieC 10:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Several points to make, [a] it's not my site, I'm just a member there [b] I've read the discussion on the archive, was without internet connection while it was taking place. Just basing sites on alexa ranking seems a bit stupid to me. It's the longest running Murray fansite, was started in 2003. Mark claims his site is the longest running but that's very much erroneous as his site started in 2005. The Andy Murray message board should be included because:
If that's the case Wangi, why on earth is Wikipedia linking to MW then ?
Also, there's no gossip, rumours or unverified material on that message board, check it thoroughly if you want. Plenty of that on MW to tell the truth. Your definition says "However, there are exceptions, such as in cases where the article is about, or closely related to, the website itself, or where the website is of a particularly high standard". This IS the case with the Andy Murray message board ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.253.115.67 ( talk • contribs • WHOIS)
I am so glad that AMMB is no included on this wiki-page, it is a British player site now, not an Andy Murray site, by the administrator's own admission. MW and the official site are now linked and even have a shared moderator.
Someone who clearly doesn't understand that Cincinatti is a different tourny than Rogers Masters deleted the entire Rogers Masters section, and then someone else, most probably accidentally removed the second half of Murray's year. Could someone who knows how to fix this (revert to earlier revision or something) please do?-- Flute138 10:23, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
rather than just a bit under his bar, how about the chart to show grand slam performance see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Federer#Performance_timeline for an example
I'm not a regular contributor to this article, but upon finding it I was sticken by the descriptions of every senior tournament Andy has ever played in. It's not the length that is a problem as such, but it is out of stpe with other tennis articles- for example Roger Federer#Career is a free-flowing description of Federer's achievements, whereas Andy's career section is much more jerky, and full of unsourced statements, for example, "After the match Murray criticized the British media for expecting too much from him at such an early age." in Andy Murray (tennis player)#Australian Open. I think that a description containing only notable tournemants (those that he performed exceptionally well in, such as where he won, was a finalist, or had a notable victory with the exception of his earliest tournaments) would not only be easier to source, but would also be much more quickly informative. When Andy did not perform well, statements such as 'Murray failed to reach past the quarter finals of his next X tournaments' could easily summarise his performance and prevent the article becoming an indiscriminate repository on information.
I'm not an expert on murray's career, and while you have had a minor discussion at Talk:Andrew Murray (tennis player)/Archive 1#Length of article, this has been archived and Ithe article still needs changing. If necessary, a separate article could be created for tournament results as suggested. In any case, I disagree with this discussion saying that 'more recent matches will get added pretty much as they happen'becuase there isn't any need to do thsi unless, as suggested before, they are notable.
To round this off, I think that users with more knowledge of Murray's career should reduce or move to a separate article the current results section, and instead create a more brief summary, mcuh like that on other tennis player articles, containing only notable tournaments. Thanks. OSmeone 20:08, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
The sections covering the tournament results were starting to look like a long blog entry so I reformatted and shortened the 2005 section. Maybe a tournament table would be more appropriate. I already forgot 22:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I suggest we change the 2005 and 2006 entries into forms much like the Andre Agassi article, where each year is written in a paragraph form, detailing the players various achievements and performances, rather than a tournament-to-tournament kind of format...what say you guys to this? The current form, IMO, looks rather unprofessional, and unencylopaedic...-- Flute138 23:58, 2 September 2006 (UTC)