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I've reverted a series of recent edits by Qwert56, because they appear to be explicitly negative and may violate BLP. Specific concerns were:
Does anyone else have a comment on the legitimacy or otherwise of Qwert56's edits? Mitch Ames ( talk) 05:43, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Design made a reversion ( http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Andrew_Forrest&diff=463972236&oldid=463934376), and then converted an unlinked misleading and deceptive conduct to misleading and deceptive conduct. I would suggest WP:NPOV for an individual to stop progress of an article, for which I have made direct references to. I have introduced his in-link to misleading and deceptive conduct, but I would suggest, if further reasoning for why the reversion cannot be delineated, that the reversion not be made (by Design). Twigfan ( talk) 15:26, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I've changed "born Feb 1961" to just "born 1961", in the absence of a reliable reference. These two articles [1] [2] strongly imply that he was born in October or November 1961. Mitch Ames ( talk) 00:52, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
A gentleman by the name of Cameron Morse, allegedly an employee of FMG, was accused of editing the Andrew Forrest, and Fortescue Metals Group Wikipedia pages, on online Australian news publisher crikey.com.au. The discussion has been moved to Talk:Fortescue Metals Group so there is not a duplicate of delineations, and likely more suitable for that page, since there was only 1 edit to Andrew Forrest, whereas the other edits were to FMG and Deidre Willmott. Twigfan ( talk) 10:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
As Australia's richest man, there should be plentiful of references to him. This should be a listing for articles relating to him. Please don't just copy and dump. Try to include a quick description to the facts that the article may be supported. Twigfan ( talk) 06:26, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the claim that Forrest is "actively involved in evangelism in the market place", in accordance with WP:BLPSOURCES because "evangelism" may be considered controversial. The cited reference does not say he is "actively involved in evangelism", it says that he "will be speaking on the story of FMG ... [and] ... on how his faith and beliefs have impacted and guided his decisions". The connotations of "actively involved in evangelism" are far more than the fact of speaking to a group of evangelists (assuming that is a fair description of them). Mitch Ames ( talk) 13:34, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
I did want to know why you'd removed bible-believing but based on the enlisted article, based on the word reads his bible, I'm assuming it'd be argued Forrest is a bible-reading, rather than bible-believing Christian. Given this source says "his faith and beliefs have... guided his decisions", do people think that's a safe call to infer he believes in the bible? Or else, what is he having his faith in? Hmm, understanding the history of this article subject to edit wars, I'll give it some time for other's to input. Not a biggie :) Twigfan ( talk) 15:46, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
In this video, in "Hall's Creek" (if I caught that correctly), Andrew talks about "smoke for poke" here at the time 22:20. He says at 22:40 the scream of women were "pearcing" through the night, that he would wake up "cold and sweatty". He says it was fuelled by "grog" (liquor) and "gangi" (marijuana). I've added in the complaint against him to HREOC, and I understand it's inherently reliable - because it's just an "allegation". And I understand there is an issue with WP:RECENT too, but I think, the case is still pending HREOC, and it should be okay if the final result can be reported, there will be no WP:NPOV issue. Twigfan ( talk) 15:29, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
I've removed this phrase as apart of my editing:
Please don't get me wrong, I don't dispute this fact. I just think it should be sourced, and considered, which section it best fits in. I'm not sure if the intro is the most appropriate place for it either. Twigfan ( talk) 16:23, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
This is a reversion to an edit by User:Mitch Ames.
I'm going to move the controversy material into its respective sections. The reason why I'm going to do so is as follows. In the Miley Cyrus article, she has a separate section called "controversies", because she's engaged in controversial things that aren't going to fit into any other sections of her career. For example, the provocative MySpace bra photos, lap dancing, smoking weed. For example, the controversial Teen Choice Awards (dancing on a pole) is outlined, as She also sang a brief song about her several controversies, such as the bong incident, the photo of her friend and she eating a Twizzler, and the "pole dance" on a hotel pole at the Teen Choice Awards, stating "I'm sorry that I'm not perfect.", under the Career section. Whereas, things like bra photos, lap dancing, smoking weed: it's hard to associate these with any part of her life, apart from the fact - it's just pure controversy, hence its own section.
This is as contrasted with the Forrest article, where the controversy relating to misleading and deceptive conduct clearly relates to FMG, and the controversy regarding indigenous people would fit well under his philanthropic work with indigenous people.
I know those who don't like Forrest won't like this, because there won't be an explicit section with the deep dirty controversies, but it makes more sense to properly group information into their respective sections - where possible. Twigfan ( talk) 16:42, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
While I think that a controversies section could be useful, I have nonetheless just updated some public causes for controversy (that I do believe to by encyclopaedic and taken from reputable journalistic sources - especially those I have just added) regarding Forrest (and particularly his company - given that he is the founder, chair and majority (30% I believe?) shareholder, they ought just as much be imputed and attributed to Andrew Forrest as are any efforts made by Generation One for indigenous advocacy) that I believe deserve a mention. These have been updated within their respective section.
Any thoughts on reinstating this section? His recent actions concerning his support for the Chinese Communist Party is getting a lot of attention in Australia now. Also criticism from sections of the indigenous community has never gone away as has the lack of tax his companies pay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bitter Legacy ( talk • contribs) 14:42, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
I noticed there's several listed here, the ones management-related. Same person? Twigfan ( talk) 19:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
I've removed from the lead paragraph the details that Forrest stepped down from CEO because of his philanthropy commitments, because I don't think that much detail is necessary in the lead para. It is mentioned in the Philanthropy section, but the details of his positions - including date, or at least, year that he stepped down and reason - should probably be listed explicitly in the Career/Fortescue section. I haven't done it (yet), because I'm still catching up reviewing other changes, and I can't immediately see any obvious/easy place to add the details that I want. Mitch Ames ( talk) 12:06, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Under Charitable donations we currently have a paragraph that says "In 2009, Forrest opened Hale's new library". So far as I can tell, that matches the cited ref ( Haleian magazine November 2009), but there's something not quite right.
Does anyone know why there is such a discrepancy in the dates? Mitch Ames ( talk) 01:33, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
this credible article puts forward I think a more balanced representation. There is also the full version in the working papers section of the same website:
http://caepr.anu.edu.au/Publications/topical/2011TI8.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.56.71.53 ( talk) 18:24, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
http://caepr.anu.edu.au/Publications/WP/2010WP74.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.56.71.53 ( talk) 18:28, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
I've reverted this edit, which says he was CEO of Anaconda "... before being ousted during the company's near collapse due to project cost over-runs and its significant debt burden." This strongly implies that the collapse was his fault. Perhaps it was, but we need to cite a good reliable source for a WP:BLP. Even with a reliable source, we should not imply something, as the reverted text did. State it as a fact if the RS says it is, or don't mislead the reader if it is not a fact. Mitch Ames ( talk) 14:03, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Forrest wins High Court appeal - 2nd paragraph of Andrew Forrest#Fortescue Metals needs updating accordingly. 203.176.108.99 ( talk) 01:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Done in this edit, Mitch Ames ( talk) 12:53, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Some of the phrasing in the donations and philanthropy section is confusing. After updating dates and currency of the content, I have today added {{ confusing}}. Generally speaking there appears to be too much detail on philanthropy and other content. Some concise summarising and editing would help. Rangasyd ( talk) 10:45, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
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This article has a bias away from Forrest corporate activities, giving an unbalance view and over presentation of philanthropic activities with multiple sections on similar subjects and sections being of only 2 sentences with one source. Gnan garra 10:17, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
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The second paragraph under "Personal life" needs to be explained or removed. It is currently just a list of well known people with no explanation as to their relevance to Andrew Forrest without following the reference.
Quote: "Liberal state Minister for Indigenous Affairs Peter Collier, and former Liberal Prime Minister John Howard,[92] billionaire James Packer, former state Labor premier Brian Burke, former deputy leader of the Liberal Party of Australia Julie Bishop, Olympic athlete Cathy Freeman, former athlete Herb Elliot, and billionaire media moguls Rupert Murdoch and Kerry Stokes, and billionaire businessman Lindsay Fox." 147.10.105.255 ( talk) 01:53, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
The last sentence in early life is: "These connections do not suggest either Andrew or Nicola Forrest held any racist views and Andrew Forrest has repeatedly described racism as a barrier to economic growth in Australia."
This seems like an opinion that seems to be in response to an accusation of racism, potentially by someone who is fond of the subject. It may have a place elsewhere in the article but it seems out of place and irrelevant in 'Early Life' not to mention judgemental. I would advocate for removing it entirely. Any more experienced Wikipedians want to wade in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ragagama ( talk • contribs) 08:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Please edit and remove the information stating that Andrew Forrest is Aboriginal because he is Not an Aboriginal person 2001:8003:F21F:8C00:21D9:DDCB:F4F3:A539 ( talk) 23:58, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
I've reverted a series of recent edits by Qwert56, because they appear to be explicitly negative and may violate BLP. Specific concerns were:
Does anyone else have a comment on the legitimacy or otherwise of Qwert56's edits? Mitch Ames ( talk) 05:43, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Design made a reversion ( http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Andrew_Forrest&diff=463972236&oldid=463934376), and then converted an unlinked misleading and deceptive conduct to misleading and deceptive conduct. I would suggest WP:NPOV for an individual to stop progress of an article, for which I have made direct references to. I have introduced his in-link to misleading and deceptive conduct, but I would suggest, if further reasoning for why the reversion cannot be delineated, that the reversion not be made (by Design). Twigfan ( talk) 15:26, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I've changed "born Feb 1961" to just "born 1961", in the absence of a reliable reference. These two articles [1] [2] strongly imply that he was born in October or November 1961. Mitch Ames ( talk) 00:52, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
A gentleman by the name of Cameron Morse, allegedly an employee of FMG, was accused of editing the Andrew Forrest, and Fortescue Metals Group Wikipedia pages, on online Australian news publisher crikey.com.au. The discussion has been moved to Talk:Fortescue Metals Group so there is not a duplicate of delineations, and likely more suitable for that page, since there was only 1 edit to Andrew Forrest, whereas the other edits were to FMG and Deidre Willmott. Twigfan ( talk) 10:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
As Australia's richest man, there should be plentiful of references to him. This should be a listing for articles relating to him. Please don't just copy and dump. Try to include a quick description to the facts that the article may be supported. Twigfan ( talk) 06:26, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the claim that Forrest is "actively involved in evangelism in the market place", in accordance with WP:BLPSOURCES because "evangelism" may be considered controversial. The cited reference does not say he is "actively involved in evangelism", it says that he "will be speaking on the story of FMG ... [and] ... on how his faith and beliefs have impacted and guided his decisions". The connotations of "actively involved in evangelism" are far more than the fact of speaking to a group of evangelists (assuming that is a fair description of them). Mitch Ames ( talk) 13:34, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
I did want to know why you'd removed bible-believing but based on the enlisted article, based on the word reads his bible, I'm assuming it'd be argued Forrest is a bible-reading, rather than bible-believing Christian. Given this source says "his faith and beliefs have... guided his decisions", do people think that's a safe call to infer he believes in the bible? Or else, what is he having his faith in? Hmm, understanding the history of this article subject to edit wars, I'll give it some time for other's to input. Not a biggie :) Twigfan ( talk) 15:46, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
In this video, in "Hall's Creek" (if I caught that correctly), Andrew talks about "smoke for poke" here at the time 22:20. He says at 22:40 the scream of women were "pearcing" through the night, that he would wake up "cold and sweatty". He says it was fuelled by "grog" (liquor) and "gangi" (marijuana). I've added in the complaint against him to HREOC, and I understand it's inherently reliable - because it's just an "allegation". And I understand there is an issue with WP:RECENT too, but I think, the case is still pending HREOC, and it should be okay if the final result can be reported, there will be no WP:NPOV issue. Twigfan ( talk) 15:29, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
I've removed this phrase as apart of my editing:
Please don't get me wrong, I don't dispute this fact. I just think it should be sourced, and considered, which section it best fits in. I'm not sure if the intro is the most appropriate place for it either. Twigfan ( talk) 16:23, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
This is a reversion to an edit by User:Mitch Ames.
I'm going to move the controversy material into its respective sections. The reason why I'm going to do so is as follows. In the Miley Cyrus article, she has a separate section called "controversies", because she's engaged in controversial things that aren't going to fit into any other sections of her career. For example, the provocative MySpace bra photos, lap dancing, smoking weed. For example, the controversial Teen Choice Awards (dancing on a pole) is outlined, as She also sang a brief song about her several controversies, such as the bong incident, the photo of her friend and she eating a Twizzler, and the "pole dance" on a hotel pole at the Teen Choice Awards, stating "I'm sorry that I'm not perfect.", under the Career section. Whereas, things like bra photos, lap dancing, smoking weed: it's hard to associate these with any part of her life, apart from the fact - it's just pure controversy, hence its own section.
This is as contrasted with the Forrest article, where the controversy relating to misleading and deceptive conduct clearly relates to FMG, and the controversy regarding indigenous people would fit well under his philanthropic work with indigenous people.
I know those who don't like Forrest won't like this, because there won't be an explicit section with the deep dirty controversies, but it makes more sense to properly group information into their respective sections - where possible. Twigfan ( talk) 16:42, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
While I think that a controversies section could be useful, I have nonetheless just updated some public causes for controversy (that I do believe to by encyclopaedic and taken from reputable journalistic sources - especially those I have just added) regarding Forrest (and particularly his company - given that he is the founder, chair and majority (30% I believe?) shareholder, they ought just as much be imputed and attributed to Andrew Forrest as are any efforts made by Generation One for indigenous advocacy) that I believe deserve a mention. These have been updated within their respective section.
Any thoughts on reinstating this section? His recent actions concerning his support for the Chinese Communist Party is getting a lot of attention in Australia now. Also criticism from sections of the indigenous community has never gone away as has the lack of tax his companies pay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bitter Legacy ( talk • contribs) 14:42, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
I noticed there's several listed here, the ones management-related. Same person? Twigfan ( talk) 19:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
I've removed from the lead paragraph the details that Forrest stepped down from CEO because of his philanthropy commitments, because I don't think that much detail is necessary in the lead para. It is mentioned in the Philanthropy section, but the details of his positions - including date, or at least, year that he stepped down and reason - should probably be listed explicitly in the Career/Fortescue section. I haven't done it (yet), because I'm still catching up reviewing other changes, and I can't immediately see any obvious/easy place to add the details that I want. Mitch Ames ( talk) 12:06, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Under Charitable donations we currently have a paragraph that says "In 2009, Forrest opened Hale's new library". So far as I can tell, that matches the cited ref ( Haleian magazine November 2009), but there's something not quite right.
Does anyone know why there is such a discrepancy in the dates? Mitch Ames ( talk) 01:33, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
this credible article puts forward I think a more balanced representation. There is also the full version in the working papers section of the same website:
http://caepr.anu.edu.au/Publications/topical/2011TI8.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.56.71.53 ( talk) 18:24, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
http://caepr.anu.edu.au/Publications/WP/2010WP74.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.56.71.53 ( talk) 18:28, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
I've reverted this edit, which says he was CEO of Anaconda "... before being ousted during the company's near collapse due to project cost over-runs and its significant debt burden." This strongly implies that the collapse was his fault. Perhaps it was, but we need to cite a good reliable source for a WP:BLP. Even with a reliable source, we should not imply something, as the reverted text did. State it as a fact if the RS says it is, or don't mislead the reader if it is not a fact. Mitch Ames ( talk) 14:03, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Forrest wins High Court appeal - 2nd paragraph of Andrew Forrest#Fortescue Metals needs updating accordingly. 203.176.108.99 ( talk) 01:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Done in this edit, Mitch Ames ( talk) 12:53, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Some of the phrasing in the donations and philanthropy section is confusing. After updating dates and currency of the content, I have today added {{ confusing}}. Generally speaking there appears to be too much detail on philanthropy and other content. Some concise summarising and editing would help. Rangasyd ( talk) 10:45, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
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This article has a bias away from Forrest corporate activities, giving an unbalance view and over presentation of philanthropic activities with multiple sections on similar subjects and sections being of only 2 sentences with one source. Gnan garra 10:17, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The second paragraph under "Personal life" needs to be explained or removed. It is currently just a list of well known people with no explanation as to their relevance to Andrew Forrest without following the reference.
Quote: "Liberal state Minister for Indigenous Affairs Peter Collier, and former Liberal Prime Minister John Howard,[92] billionaire James Packer, former state Labor premier Brian Burke, former deputy leader of the Liberal Party of Australia Julie Bishop, Olympic athlete Cathy Freeman, former athlete Herb Elliot, and billionaire media moguls Rupert Murdoch and Kerry Stokes, and billionaire businessman Lindsay Fox." 147.10.105.255 ( talk) 01:53, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
The last sentence in early life is: "These connections do not suggest either Andrew or Nicola Forrest held any racist views and Andrew Forrest has repeatedly described racism as a barrier to economic growth in Australia."
This seems like an opinion that seems to be in response to an accusation of racism, potentially by someone who is fond of the subject. It may have a place elsewhere in the article but it seems out of place and irrelevant in 'Early Life' not to mention judgemental. I would advocate for removing it entirely. Any more experienced Wikipedians want to wade in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ragagama ( talk • contribs) 08:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Please edit and remove the information stating that Andrew Forrest is Aboriginal because he is Not an Aboriginal person 2001:8003:F21F:8C00:21D9:DDCB:F4F3:A539 ( talk) 23:58, 16 September 2022 (UTC)