Andrew Dickson White was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
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Current status: Delisted good article |
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The material removed on White's conflict thesis book is valid; judging something as bad history isn't necessarily a POV violation... in this case it's an indication that historians now recognize that it got a lot of things wrong. Please explain exactly what is objectionable about the version I am about to restore.-- ragesoss 22:33, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Regarding "ahistoric grade-giving," the idea with what I added is to flesh out the history of the acceptance/rejection of White's ideas and point out things that are now recognized as wrong (and incorporate a little of the info from some of those external links at the bottom). To say that historians have reached a consensus about the failure of the conflict thesis is hardly a stretch (see the recent discussion at Talk:The relationship between religion and science).
PS: Just because I'm a grad student doesn't mean I'm a crank. ;) -- ragesoss 22:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
In my experience (limited as it is), the reason White is read today (as opposed to 30 years ago, perhaps) is to show how wrong he was and illustrate how the conflict thesis arose. So I suppose (in the Marxist sense) the conflict thesis stuff does reflect a biased/self-interested history of science disciplinary perspective... perhaps comparable to the rampant scientism on WP (and surely other disciplinary domains with which I'm less familiar as well). I agree about the need to contextualize White in is own time as well as the intervening years, and (to the extent appropriate in this article) narrate the changing political and historioriographical context leading up to the current "result." I tried to do that a little bit, and make it more of a detatched narration, as you suggested. Perhaps you can fill in more about White's specific context and motivations.-- ragesoss 18:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Err, it seems that after actually looking at the bibliography more closely, that this article does have references after all. However, I found this odd statement, "like most educated Americans at the time", which unless its a supportable generalization with verifiable statistics or something, sounds like a POV violation, so im going to remove it so this can be a GA. Homestarmy 23:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and as for suggestions, I recommend trying to attribute various information in the article to inline citations, and if there's anything else at all important about this person, well, try to find it :/. Homestarmy 03:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. LuciferMorgan 03:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed:
<ref>See also [[John Polkinghorne]]'s works such as ''Science and Religion.''</ref>
Because John Polkinghorne does not mention White, or the idea of the flat earth in his book. Both "white" and "flat" in a google book search [1] have irrelevant reference to these two words. Columbus doesnt even appear.
I attempted to find references to John Polkinghorne talking about White and the flat earth, because the reference mentions "works such as" but I could not find them. Travb ( talk) 02:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I'll be honest, I don't see any qualities of a GA here. It's not a comprehensive biography, the referencing is decent but not great, and it just doesn't feel complete. I'll give it a week or two to see if anyone wants to fix it up, but I'll likely delist it shortly. Wizardman 21:46, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
This article seems to have been promoted in a less strict era. At the moment it doesn't seem to fulfil the GA criteria; here are some of the problems:
I will leave this notice here for a week, to see if anyone is willing to address the concerns. Lampman ( talk) 14:53, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Category:AD_White_house_(Cornell_University)
— Notyourbroom ( talk) 17:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
White, when talking about comets, depicted science as totally beneficial. The passage might be worth including in the article. See "A History of the Doctrine of Comets" by A. D. White. This is the same as a chapter in White's later History. See page 42, also called page 146. I think it is on the archive site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.3.236 ( talk) 09:52, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
"At the onset of World War I, White, an ethnic German-American with strong professional and emotional ties to Germany, vocally supported the German cause, but, by the summer of 1915, he retreated from this position, refraining from offering support, publicly or privately."
^
Both his mother("Dickson") and father("White") were from New England families. Where is the proof that he had Germany ancestry?
The source indicates that he (because of his role as Ambassador to Germany) received letters from, German Americans, complaining about treatment towards Germany and its people. It does indicate his admiration for Germany and its culture, and this might be where confusion arises.
"His last years were clouded by the Great War, for his love for Germany was rooted in both reason and sentiment. He shared the heartbreak of all patriotic German-Americans , and, although convinced of the duplicity of Germany in breaking international agreements and affected by the courage of the American forces, he could only ever wonder at the spectacle of virtuous hatred displayed by Americans toward everything German."
Source: Andrew Dickson White Papers(on Microfilm) at Cornell University
This sentence is quite ambiguous. It doesn't mean that he was a patriotic German American -- more that he sympathised with them.
This article needs to be changed to show this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.175.13.142 ( talk) 18:35, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
It seems that White was never quite clear on his ancestry and spent some of his final decade traveling around New England, tracing his roots. Unfortunately, when the Whites showed up in NE was never fully ironed out. Source Xtreambar ( talk) 02:49, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
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Andrew Dickson White was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Delisted good article |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The material removed on White's conflict thesis book is valid; judging something as bad history isn't necessarily a POV violation... in this case it's an indication that historians now recognize that it got a lot of things wrong. Please explain exactly what is objectionable about the version I am about to restore.-- ragesoss 22:33, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Regarding "ahistoric grade-giving," the idea with what I added is to flesh out the history of the acceptance/rejection of White's ideas and point out things that are now recognized as wrong (and incorporate a little of the info from some of those external links at the bottom). To say that historians have reached a consensus about the failure of the conflict thesis is hardly a stretch (see the recent discussion at Talk:The relationship between religion and science).
PS: Just because I'm a grad student doesn't mean I'm a crank. ;) -- ragesoss 22:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
In my experience (limited as it is), the reason White is read today (as opposed to 30 years ago, perhaps) is to show how wrong he was and illustrate how the conflict thesis arose. So I suppose (in the Marxist sense) the conflict thesis stuff does reflect a biased/self-interested history of science disciplinary perspective... perhaps comparable to the rampant scientism on WP (and surely other disciplinary domains with which I'm less familiar as well). I agree about the need to contextualize White in is own time as well as the intervening years, and (to the extent appropriate in this article) narrate the changing political and historioriographical context leading up to the current "result." I tried to do that a little bit, and make it more of a detatched narration, as you suggested. Perhaps you can fill in more about White's specific context and motivations.-- ragesoss 18:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Err, it seems that after actually looking at the bibliography more closely, that this article does have references after all. However, I found this odd statement, "like most educated Americans at the time", which unless its a supportable generalization with verifiable statistics or something, sounds like a POV violation, so im going to remove it so this can be a GA. Homestarmy 23:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and as for suggestions, I recommend trying to attribute various information in the article to inline citations, and if there's anything else at all important about this person, well, try to find it :/. Homestarmy 03:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. LuciferMorgan 03:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed:
<ref>See also [[John Polkinghorne]]'s works such as ''Science and Religion.''</ref>
Because John Polkinghorne does not mention White, or the idea of the flat earth in his book. Both "white" and "flat" in a google book search [1] have irrelevant reference to these two words. Columbus doesnt even appear.
I attempted to find references to John Polkinghorne talking about White and the flat earth, because the reference mentions "works such as" but I could not find them. Travb ( talk) 02:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I'll be honest, I don't see any qualities of a GA here. It's not a comprehensive biography, the referencing is decent but not great, and it just doesn't feel complete. I'll give it a week or two to see if anyone wants to fix it up, but I'll likely delist it shortly. Wizardman 21:46, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
This article seems to have been promoted in a less strict era. At the moment it doesn't seem to fulfil the GA criteria; here are some of the problems:
I will leave this notice here for a week, to see if anyone is willing to address the concerns. Lampman ( talk) 14:53, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Category:AD_White_house_(Cornell_University)
— Notyourbroom ( talk) 17:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
White, when talking about comets, depicted science as totally beneficial. The passage might be worth including in the article. See "A History of the Doctrine of Comets" by A. D. White. This is the same as a chapter in White's later History. See page 42, also called page 146. I think it is on the archive site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.3.236 ( talk) 09:52, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
"At the onset of World War I, White, an ethnic German-American with strong professional and emotional ties to Germany, vocally supported the German cause, but, by the summer of 1915, he retreated from this position, refraining from offering support, publicly or privately."
^
Both his mother("Dickson") and father("White") were from New England families. Where is the proof that he had Germany ancestry?
The source indicates that he (because of his role as Ambassador to Germany) received letters from, German Americans, complaining about treatment towards Germany and its people. It does indicate his admiration for Germany and its culture, and this might be where confusion arises.
"His last years were clouded by the Great War, for his love for Germany was rooted in both reason and sentiment. He shared the heartbreak of all patriotic German-Americans , and, although convinced of the duplicity of Germany in breaking international agreements and affected by the courage of the American forces, he could only ever wonder at the spectacle of virtuous hatred displayed by Americans toward everything German."
Source: Andrew Dickson White Papers(on Microfilm) at Cornell University
This sentence is quite ambiguous. It doesn't mean that he was a patriotic German American -- more that he sympathised with them.
This article needs to be changed to show this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.175.13.142 ( talk) 18:35, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
It seems that White was never quite clear on his ancestry and spent some of his final decade traveling around New England, tracing his roots. Unfortunately, when the Whites showed up in NE was never fully ironed out. Source Xtreambar ( talk) 02:49, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:40, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:03, 7 December 2017 (UTC)