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BetacommandBot02:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)reply
What's your source for the statement: "The title of this article contains the character é. Where it is unavailable or not desired, the name may be represented as Andre Campra"? In other words, which authorities say so? Why would it "not be desired" to render "André Campra" with an accent? I've certainly never seen "André Campra" given as "Andre Campra" by any reliable source. --
Folantin (
talk)
17:58, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
The operative words are, "Where it is unavailable". American keyboards do not have diacritics and many Americans do not know how to insert them otherwise (this is English Wikipedia after all.) As to the rest, please see Template:Foreign character, which has been in use since October 17th, 2005, on which date it was created by Wiki. admin.
Stemonitis. —
Robert Greer (
talk)
18:47, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
All of which is irrelevant (and US keyboards can quite easily create the right diacritics, plus they are easily available via Wikipedia). You cannot make controversial claims such as "the name may be represented as Andre Campra" without a reliable source. At a push, I can see a possible use of this template for characters such as the German ß (which may be rendered "ss" in some circumstances) and the Icelandic Þ (which may be rendered "Th"), but "Andre Campra" is simply inaccurate. No reliable sources use this rendering. (Incidentally, this issue has already been discussed at Wikiproject:Opera
[1]). --
Folantin (
talk)
19:01, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
This template is designed to help users who may be unfamiliar with the use of "foreign" characters in (titles of) articles. It allows the article to make reference to the troublesome letter directly, and give the equivalent spelling if one sticks to the "English alphabet" of non-accented characters. It was originally designed to help deal with titles of articles that contain the German ß, but is equally applicable to other characters, such as the ç in façade, etc.
Many — dare I say most — Americans do not know how to insert diacritics (most Americans, after all, never hold a passport.) Nor do they, nor have they any reason, to know to click on Wikipedia's drop down arrow next to the word "Insert" and then select "Latin". But then again, perhaps I suffer from the delusion that Wikipedia exists to be used by its readers rather than the esoteric quibbling of its editors. —
Robert Greer (
talk)
19:45, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Wow, some might say you have a rather patronising attitude to "most Americans" who presumably have to be protected against chance encounters with anything foreign in case they get too upset (in any case, this is not an encyclopaedia exclusively for hypothetical US xenophobes). Unfortunately, there is nothing "esoteric" about "André". That's simply how the name is spelled and if you have any dealings with things French you are bound to come across it sooner or later. "Andre" is not an acceptable substitute, it's simply inaccurate. Again, if you are going to reinstate the template, you need reliable sources saying that "Andre Campra" is a legitimate alternative spelling (and you also need to avoid giving them
undue weight).--
Folantin (
talk)
20:05, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Patronising, no; realistic, yes; realistic in that I'd like American users of Wikipedia to be able to do so without having to break out a 1980s computer manual to look up the use of the numeric keypad to insert diacritics (if they even have a numeric keypad, that is) or to have to learn how to edit Wikipedia just to be able to look up
Andre Campra if that's how they encountered it.
It is rather more patronising to expect lay users of English Wikipedia to be familiar with French, German, Spanish, Italian, Swedish, Danish and Norwegian orthography.
I came to this page by way of 'Andre Campra' (without an accent) and was immediately redirected to André Campra. So that's not a problem. As for editing, we have clickable Latin etc accents available just below this edit box. On the other hand, having a text that says "the name may be represented as Andre Campra" is misleading because 'Andre Campra' is not a recognized alternative version of his name. So it's better not to use the Foreignchar hatnote.--Kleinzach05:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)reply
References
References such as "BBC Radio 3: 7 December 2010" are quite useless. Nobody can refer to them and there's no reason to believe that whoever said whatever was a scholarly source anyway.
Adlestrop ant (
talk)
11:38, 27 March 2013 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Composers, a group of editors writing and developing biographical articles about composers of all eras and styles. The project
discussion page is the place to talk about technical and editorial issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!ComposersWikipedia:WikiProject ComposersTemplate:WikiProject ComposersComposers articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dance, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Dance and
Dance-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DanceWikipedia:WikiProject DanceTemplate:WikiProject DanceDance articles
This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Opera, a group writing and editing Wikipedia articles on operas, opera terminology, opera composers and librettists, singers, designers, directors and managers, companies and houses, publications and recordings. The project discussion page is a place to talk about issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!OperaWikipedia:WikiProject OperaTemplate:WikiProject OperaOpera articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level.
BetacommandBot02:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)reply
What's your source for the statement: "The title of this article contains the character é. Where it is unavailable or not desired, the name may be represented as Andre Campra"? In other words, which authorities say so? Why would it "not be desired" to render "André Campra" with an accent? I've certainly never seen "André Campra" given as "Andre Campra" by any reliable source. --
Folantin (
talk)
17:58, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
The operative words are, "Where it is unavailable". American keyboards do not have diacritics and many Americans do not know how to insert them otherwise (this is English Wikipedia after all.) As to the rest, please see Template:Foreign character, which has been in use since October 17th, 2005, on which date it was created by Wiki. admin.
Stemonitis. —
Robert Greer (
talk)
18:47, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
All of which is irrelevant (and US keyboards can quite easily create the right diacritics, plus they are easily available via Wikipedia). You cannot make controversial claims such as "the name may be represented as Andre Campra" without a reliable source. At a push, I can see a possible use of this template for characters such as the German ß (which may be rendered "ss" in some circumstances) and the Icelandic Þ (which may be rendered "Th"), but "Andre Campra" is simply inaccurate. No reliable sources use this rendering. (Incidentally, this issue has already been discussed at Wikiproject:Opera
[1]). --
Folantin (
talk)
19:01, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
This template is designed to help users who may be unfamiliar with the use of "foreign" characters in (titles of) articles. It allows the article to make reference to the troublesome letter directly, and give the equivalent spelling if one sticks to the "English alphabet" of non-accented characters. It was originally designed to help deal with titles of articles that contain the German ß, but is equally applicable to other characters, such as the ç in façade, etc.
Many — dare I say most — Americans do not know how to insert diacritics (most Americans, after all, never hold a passport.) Nor do they, nor have they any reason, to know to click on Wikipedia's drop down arrow next to the word "Insert" and then select "Latin". But then again, perhaps I suffer from the delusion that Wikipedia exists to be used by its readers rather than the esoteric quibbling of its editors. —
Robert Greer (
talk)
19:45, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Wow, some might say you have a rather patronising attitude to "most Americans" who presumably have to be protected against chance encounters with anything foreign in case they get too upset (in any case, this is not an encyclopaedia exclusively for hypothetical US xenophobes). Unfortunately, there is nothing "esoteric" about "André". That's simply how the name is spelled and if you have any dealings with things French you are bound to come across it sooner or later. "Andre" is not an acceptable substitute, it's simply inaccurate. Again, if you are going to reinstate the template, you need reliable sources saying that "Andre Campra" is a legitimate alternative spelling (and you also need to avoid giving them
undue weight).--
Folantin (
talk)
20:05, 19 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Patronising, no; realistic, yes; realistic in that I'd like American users of Wikipedia to be able to do so without having to break out a 1980s computer manual to look up the use of the numeric keypad to insert diacritics (if they even have a numeric keypad, that is) or to have to learn how to edit Wikipedia just to be able to look up
Andre Campra if that's how they encountered it.
It is rather more patronising to expect lay users of English Wikipedia to be familiar with French, German, Spanish, Italian, Swedish, Danish and Norwegian orthography.
I came to this page by way of 'Andre Campra' (without an accent) and was immediately redirected to André Campra. So that's not a problem. As for editing, we have clickable Latin etc accents available just below this edit box. On the other hand, having a text that says "the name may be represented as Andre Campra" is misleading because 'Andre Campra' is not a recognized alternative version of his name. So it's better not to use the Foreignchar hatnote.--Kleinzach05:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)reply
References
References such as "BBC Radio 3: 7 December 2010" are quite useless. Nobody can refer to them and there's no reason to believe that whoever said whatever was a scholarly source anyway.
Adlestrop ant (
talk)
11:38, 27 March 2013 (UTC)reply