This article was horribly unbalanced (and I tried to fix it a bit). The original article didn't reflect the fact that the term "anchor baby" is deeply offensive to many. A couple of points to consider.
1. The term is used in an exclusively derogatory way by one side of a contentious political debate.
2. It is hard to imagine the term being used as anything other than a slur. Do you think a mother would call her daughter "my anchor baby"? Can you imagine using this term to describe a co-worker?
There is also a problem with the description of the core idea of the 14th amendment as a "loophole" which clearly reflects a political bias.
This is inaccurate: "While a parent of a US born baby can apply for citizenship, I believe that, legally, the parents do not get any automatic claims of citizenship upon the birth of their child in the US. There may be an advantage upon applying for citizenship, but until that porcess is done, the parents are still illegal and subject to deportation. I think seperate points on the perception of the people who use this term, the probably mistaken beliefs of the immigrants who try this, and the actual legal status of anchor baby parents needs to be clarified" 00:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC) Cuvtixo
"As a matter of historic legal precedent, an alien entering any foreign country subjects himself to the jurisdiction of that country, unless exempted by war or treaty. In application, a modern sovereign state has jurisdiction over all foreigners within its territory except foreign heads of state, diplomats and other high-level government figures."
The United States always considered children born in the western territories as alien children still under the jurisdiction of their native country and not the United States. When a visitor arrives to any of the states he/she is under no binding jurisdiction of that state and is free to return home at any time he/she chooses. Only time you can say anyone is remotely under the jurisdiction of a state or federal government is when he or she violates a law and is brought under the jurisdiction of a court having jurisdiction by a process of law. Quoting PA Madison here: "The only recognized means for non-Americans to come under US jurisdiction for purposes of citizenship under the US Constitution is through the process of naturalization, which requires an oath of allegiance to the United States."
If the statement is entirely correct then why did federal statutes make a distinction between an alien within the limits of the United States and an alien under the jurisdiction of the same? Also, wasn't the 14th's citizenship clause a virtue of "national law" and not "common law" as the Kim Ark court mistakenly believed? I think Madison and others have demonstrated beyond a doubt that the citizenship clause was simply declaratory of national law which was only persons born to parents owing no foreign allegiance to another country were US citizens.
The legislative history and text eventually trumps and rules over the Supreme Court...this how bad Supreme Court rulings of the past finally get corrected over time. If this wasn't true we still be living under Dred Scott jurisprudence.
You know, writings of J. Madison, T. Jefferson, C. Thomas, et. al, are not considered by liberals as objective "mainstream legal analysis" anymore. Only thing considered objective anymore is what 5 liberal activists justices say is mainstream :-)
Do you want to add something regarding the Fourteenth Amendment: Section One, which pertains to this subject legally?
I am merging Jackpot baby here (and not the other way around) because anchor baby gets more google hits.
This term appears to be a synonym of " anchor baby", which is the more common term, I believe. Is there any reasons we should not merge them? Are the terms so different we can't handle them together? - Will Beback 08:04, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I added some information about the Fourteenth Amendment, and some information about currently proposed legislation. I also tried to clean as much bias as possible out of the definition. The previous one was simply too opinionated, and read as though written by someone who hated the term. I must say, I had always thought that everyone born in the US was an automatic citizen, until I researched this. I could find no Act of Congress which actually grants citizenship to the domestically born children of foreign nationals. As near as I can tell, someone, somewhere just decided it was so, and it became common sense. (May 1st, 2006) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.15.222.166 ( talk • contribs) .
An editor changed the adjective describing the term "anchor baby" from "pejorative" to "colloquial" with the edit summary "in no way is it intended to be pejorative". I beg to differ. The term is only used by immigration restrictionists, immigration reductionists, and racists to label the children of "illegal" immigrants. The use of the term is pejorative in that it presumes that children born to these immigrants are born specifically and only for the purpose of "anchoring" the family in the U.S. This supposition is offensive to the children and the families they are born into because it assumes that the children are being birthed for financial gain and doesn't take into consideration a wide range of other factors that bring about children. The term may be colloquial, but it is also highly offensive, and denigrates the children and their parents.-- Rockero 20:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia already has a nice definition for Wong Kim Ark (WKA). For purposes of being concise, this section was shortened to include only the immediatley applicable facts of WKA. Specifically, I am refering to Paragraphs 2, "Wong Kim Ark was born in", through 4 (exclusive), "There have been several subsequent". Paragraph 3 mostly contained snippets from the decision; however, containing random snippets, cited out of context, is befitting of an AP news wire, not a proper definition. More importantly, these snippets were either moot, not part of the actual opinion (although cited as such), or cited with improper context. The first, was the opinion of the the Collector of Customs, which was overturned. The second quotation was NOT the opinion of the court. It was a fact presented to the court, which both parties (plaintif and defendant) were in agreement to, and restated in the sumary of the ruling. The third was indeed part of Section V of the opinion, but it's context is as a hypothesis, not a conclusion.
Also, in paragraph I, the phrase, "the Supreme Court extended U.S. jurisdiction to include all aliens", was incorrect. The decision in WKA is only applied to the children of aliens who are amicably within the US with the permission of the US, as indicated by the conclusions of the High Court:
One might even say that the Court's opinion is exclusive of persons born within the US to those without permission to be in it. But at the present time, that would be argumentative. The only correct statement that can be made, is that the Court's decision only applies to aliens legally residing within the territory of the US.
This is perhaps a winded part of the discussion, but the topic is sensitive, and we should be as factual as possible. Magic pumpkin 16:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone aware of any legal basis whereby a US-born child of illegal aliens might be deemed not to be subject to US jurisdiction for purposes of the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause (and thus not a US citizen) — and yet would be deemed to be subject to US jurisdiction for purposes of criminal prosecution if he/she were to be accused of committing a crime later on? It seems to me that such a person could end up being immune to prosecution (for exactly the same reasons that foreign diplomats have diplomatic immunity). I really doubt this is what the people pushing for limits on "anchor baby" citizenship would want. Richwales 04:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I recommend that this article's name be changed to Anchor baby/PRUCOL as some people consider 'Anchor baby' to be pejorative, though it is the name must people are familiar with and, so, should not be removed. I also recommend that redirects from PRUCOL and 'Anchor baby' be created and pointed to the new article. 71.74.209.82 20:50, 4 August 2006 (UTC) Also that all content in the 14th Amendment of the United States article on the topic of the citizenship of illegal immigrants born in the USA be merged with this article as well. 71.74.209.82 21:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I cleaned up the language in the first paragraph to make it flow better and to reflect a less biased point of view. Hope you like it. Morlesg 18:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm working my way through the video files on the Souder site to find which one has Souder saying that "Anchor baby" is pejorative. Perhaps the footnote should include the date and title of the source video. Its not a reference if it doesn't tell you where to find the source (its rather like saying "the source is in that library over there"). I'm going to treat it as an unreferenced statement unless a more precise reference is provided. Psychohistorian 11:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Disagree. Anchor baby is not more important than the amendment. 72.200.62.214 13:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Keep the discussion of immigrant children in the article on the 14th -- it's an important aspect of the amendment which is going to be more important going forward. Put in a refernce and hot link to "anchor baby" -- that is the appropriate course. The whole "anchor baby" concept stems from the 14th, not the other way around.
Strongly disagree. As the comment above says, the 14th amendment is an extremenly important topic, its title doesn't inherently convey any political bias and it probably receives a lot more hits than "Anchor baby" (a phrase which I'd never even heard of until I saw it on Wikipedia). Grover cleveland 14:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Disagree with merger. "Anchor babies" are an issue in the news and current public controversies and that justifies an article on the topic for those who hear the term for the first time and are looking for more information. Also, this article could really go into specifics about what government services actually ARE available to the "anchor babies" themselves and to their undocumented family members-- that would get into areas that are far afield of the 14th Amendment. Also, talk radio and Sunday morning news shows notwithstanding, the 14th Amendment actually comes into play far more often in other, completely different areas of the law, such as criminal cases. A brief mention on that article stating that the 14th Amendment was the basis for certain court decisions that established access to government services for children of immigrants should be sufficient, and people can read this article on the "Anchor babies" issue if they are interested in more.
DismasMama
16:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)DismasMama
Someone added the "verify" tag with no comments on this page. That is not helpful. In your opinion what needs to be added, changed or supported with sources. Morlesg 09:24, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
"They insist on a strict Jus sanguinis, "right of blood", process for obtaining the rights of nationality." I don't think a person can be naturalized by any means in a strict Jus sanguinis process. So, I don't think this statement in the article is true. - Psychohistorian 11:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm still confused about suggestions I've heard that the concept of being "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States could be split into subcategories — e.g., that an illegal alien (or an anchor baby) could be subject to U.S. jurisdiction for purposes of criminal law, but not subject to U.S. jurisdiction for purposes of jus soli citizenship.
It seems pretty clear to me that if illegal aliens and their U.S.-born children were declared to be immune from U.S. jurisdiction (in order to deny U.S. citizenship to the children), an inevitable — and unwanted — side effect would be that illegal aliens would have to be treated the same as foreign diplomats (with diplomatic immunity and subject only to being declared persona non grata and deported).
Otherwise, I would expect the courts to rule that exempting "anchor babies" from U.S. jurisdiction was merely a political ploy designed to deny them U.S. citizenship, but without truly granting the kind of immunity from the laws that has long been granted to foreign diplomats.
I would propose to at least bring up this issue in the article — and probably make other edits in order to come close to achieving NPOV. Comments, anyone? Richwales 01:53, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that the term is becoming used more and more in a racist connotation by hate groups to describe hispanics in general, regardless of knowledge of their ancestry. For example, I've noticed that on the SOS forums, the term "anchor baby" is included with other racist language that is shouted at protesting hispanics. Glenn Spencer of American Patrol also favors the word when referring to some hispanics even if he has little knowledge of their ancestry. Does anyone else agree that this should be included in the article? Mosquito-001 14:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
The two listed sources say unequivocally that this is a pejorative term. If editors want to say that it is only sometimes used as a pejoriatve, then they need to find a source which says so. - Will Beback 12:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Using the Term pejorative violates the NPOV rule of wikipedia and has been removed by me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.17.0.101 ( talk • contribs).
Two source claiming somthing as pejorative does not make it a majority opinion. Wikipedia is based on majority. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.17.0.101 ( talk • contribs).
"Nativists claim that the baby would become the "anchor" of a chain by which its family may receive benefits from social programs, and by which the parents may themselves eventually become lawful permanent residents or citizens of the United States."
Ummm, no. That is the fact of the matter, and the use of the charged and pejorative term "nativist" is yet another slander in this hideously-biased smear piece. BulldogPete 23:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
This article was horribly unbalanced (and I tried to fix it a bit). The original article didn't reflect the fact that the term "anchor baby" is deeply offensive to many. A couple of points to consider.
1. The term is used in an exclusively derogatory way by one side of a contentious political debate.
2. It is hard to imagine the term being used as anything other than a slur. Do you think a mother would call her daughter "my anchor baby"? Can you imagine using this term to describe a co-worker?
There is also a problem with the description of the core idea of the 14th amendment as a "loophole" which clearly reflects a political bias.
This is inaccurate: "While a parent of a US born baby can apply for citizenship, I believe that, legally, the parents do not get any automatic claims of citizenship upon the birth of their child in the US. There may be an advantage upon applying for citizenship, but until that porcess is done, the parents are still illegal and subject to deportation. I think seperate points on the perception of the people who use this term, the probably mistaken beliefs of the immigrants who try this, and the actual legal status of anchor baby parents needs to be clarified" 00:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC) Cuvtixo
"As a matter of historic legal precedent, an alien entering any foreign country subjects himself to the jurisdiction of that country, unless exempted by war or treaty. In application, a modern sovereign state has jurisdiction over all foreigners within its territory except foreign heads of state, diplomats and other high-level government figures."
The United States always considered children born in the western territories as alien children still under the jurisdiction of their native country and not the United States. When a visitor arrives to any of the states he/she is under no binding jurisdiction of that state and is free to return home at any time he/she chooses. Only time you can say anyone is remotely under the jurisdiction of a state or federal government is when he or she violates a law and is brought under the jurisdiction of a court having jurisdiction by a process of law. Quoting PA Madison here: "The only recognized means for non-Americans to come under US jurisdiction for purposes of citizenship under the US Constitution is through the process of naturalization, which requires an oath of allegiance to the United States."
If the statement is entirely correct then why did federal statutes make a distinction between an alien within the limits of the United States and an alien under the jurisdiction of the same? Also, wasn't the 14th's citizenship clause a virtue of "national law" and not "common law" as the Kim Ark court mistakenly believed? I think Madison and others have demonstrated beyond a doubt that the citizenship clause was simply declaratory of national law which was only persons born to parents owing no foreign allegiance to another country were US citizens.
The legislative history and text eventually trumps and rules over the Supreme Court...this how bad Supreme Court rulings of the past finally get corrected over time. If this wasn't true we still be living under Dred Scott jurisprudence.
You know, writings of J. Madison, T. Jefferson, C. Thomas, et. al, are not considered by liberals as objective "mainstream legal analysis" anymore. Only thing considered objective anymore is what 5 liberal activists justices say is mainstream :-)
Do you want to add something regarding the Fourteenth Amendment: Section One, which pertains to this subject legally?
I am merging Jackpot baby here (and not the other way around) because anchor baby gets more google hits.
This term appears to be a synonym of " anchor baby", which is the more common term, I believe. Is there any reasons we should not merge them? Are the terms so different we can't handle them together? - Will Beback 08:04, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I added some information about the Fourteenth Amendment, and some information about currently proposed legislation. I also tried to clean as much bias as possible out of the definition. The previous one was simply too opinionated, and read as though written by someone who hated the term. I must say, I had always thought that everyone born in the US was an automatic citizen, until I researched this. I could find no Act of Congress which actually grants citizenship to the domestically born children of foreign nationals. As near as I can tell, someone, somewhere just decided it was so, and it became common sense. (May 1st, 2006) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.15.222.166 ( talk • contribs) .
An editor changed the adjective describing the term "anchor baby" from "pejorative" to "colloquial" with the edit summary "in no way is it intended to be pejorative". I beg to differ. The term is only used by immigration restrictionists, immigration reductionists, and racists to label the children of "illegal" immigrants. The use of the term is pejorative in that it presumes that children born to these immigrants are born specifically and only for the purpose of "anchoring" the family in the U.S. This supposition is offensive to the children and the families they are born into because it assumes that the children are being birthed for financial gain and doesn't take into consideration a wide range of other factors that bring about children. The term may be colloquial, but it is also highly offensive, and denigrates the children and their parents.-- Rockero 20:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia already has a nice definition for Wong Kim Ark (WKA). For purposes of being concise, this section was shortened to include only the immediatley applicable facts of WKA. Specifically, I am refering to Paragraphs 2, "Wong Kim Ark was born in", through 4 (exclusive), "There have been several subsequent". Paragraph 3 mostly contained snippets from the decision; however, containing random snippets, cited out of context, is befitting of an AP news wire, not a proper definition. More importantly, these snippets were either moot, not part of the actual opinion (although cited as such), or cited with improper context. The first, was the opinion of the the Collector of Customs, which was overturned. The second quotation was NOT the opinion of the court. It was a fact presented to the court, which both parties (plaintif and defendant) were in agreement to, and restated in the sumary of the ruling. The third was indeed part of Section V of the opinion, but it's context is as a hypothesis, not a conclusion.
Also, in paragraph I, the phrase, "the Supreme Court extended U.S. jurisdiction to include all aliens", was incorrect. The decision in WKA is only applied to the children of aliens who are amicably within the US with the permission of the US, as indicated by the conclusions of the High Court:
One might even say that the Court's opinion is exclusive of persons born within the US to those without permission to be in it. But at the present time, that would be argumentative. The only correct statement that can be made, is that the Court's decision only applies to aliens legally residing within the territory of the US.
This is perhaps a winded part of the discussion, but the topic is sensitive, and we should be as factual as possible. Magic pumpkin 16:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone aware of any legal basis whereby a US-born child of illegal aliens might be deemed not to be subject to US jurisdiction for purposes of the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause (and thus not a US citizen) — and yet would be deemed to be subject to US jurisdiction for purposes of criminal prosecution if he/she were to be accused of committing a crime later on? It seems to me that such a person could end up being immune to prosecution (for exactly the same reasons that foreign diplomats have diplomatic immunity). I really doubt this is what the people pushing for limits on "anchor baby" citizenship would want. Richwales 04:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I recommend that this article's name be changed to Anchor baby/PRUCOL as some people consider 'Anchor baby' to be pejorative, though it is the name must people are familiar with and, so, should not be removed. I also recommend that redirects from PRUCOL and 'Anchor baby' be created and pointed to the new article. 71.74.209.82 20:50, 4 August 2006 (UTC) Also that all content in the 14th Amendment of the United States article on the topic of the citizenship of illegal immigrants born in the USA be merged with this article as well. 71.74.209.82 21:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I cleaned up the language in the first paragraph to make it flow better and to reflect a less biased point of view. Hope you like it. Morlesg 18:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm working my way through the video files on the Souder site to find which one has Souder saying that "Anchor baby" is pejorative. Perhaps the footnote should include the date and title of the source video. Its not a reference if it doesn't tell you where to find the source (its rather like saying "the source is in that library over there"). I'm going to treat it as an unreferenced statement unless a more precise reference is provided. Psychohistorian 11:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Disagree. Anchor baby is not more important than the amendment. 72.200.62.214 13:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Keep the discussion of immigrant children in the article on the 14th -- it's an important aspect of the amendment which is going to be more important going forward. Put in a refernce and hot link to "anchor baby" -- that is the appropriate course. The whole "anchor baby" concept stems from the 14th, not the other way around.
Strongly disagree. As the comment above says, the 14th amendment is an extremenly important topic, its title doesn't inherently convey any political bias and it probably receives a lot more hits than "Anchor baby" (a phrase which I'd never even heard of until I saw it on Wikipedia). Grover cleveland 14:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Disagree with merger. "Anchor babies" are an issue in the news and current public controversies and that justifies an article on the topic for those who hear the term for the first time and are looking for more information. Also, this article could really go into specifics about what government services actually ARE available to the "anchor babies" themselves and to their undocumented family members-- that would get into areas that are far afield of the 14th Amendment. Also, talk radio and Sunday morning news shows notwithstanding, the 14th Amendment actually comes into play far more often in other, completely different areas of the law, such as criminal cases. A brief mention on that article stating that the 14th Amendment was the basis for certain court decisions that established access to government services for children of immigrants should be sufficient, and people can read this article on the "Anchor babies" issue if they are interested in more.
DismasMama
16:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)DismasMama
Someone added the "verify" tag with no comments on this page. That is not helpful. In your opinion what needs to be added, changed or supported with sources. Morlesg 09:24, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
"They insist on a strict Jus sanguinis, "right of blood", process for obtaining the rights of nationality." I don't think a person can be naturalized by any means in a strict Jus sanguinis process. So, I don't think this statement in the article is true. - Psychohistorian 11:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm still confused about suggestions I've heard that the concept of being "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States could be split into subcategories — e.g., that an illegal alien (or an anchor baby) could be subject to U.S. jurisdiction for purposes of criminal law, but not subject to U.S. jurisdiction for purposes of jus soli citizenship.
It seems pretty clear to me that if illegal aliens and their U.S.-born children were declared to be immune from U.S. jurisdiction (in order to deny U.S. citizenship to the children), an inevitable — and unwanted — side effect would be that illegal aliens would have to be treated the same as foreign diplomats (with diplomatic immunity and subject only to being declared persona non grata and deported).
Otherwise, I would expect the courts to rule that exempting "anchor babies" from U.S. jurisdiction was merely a political ploy designed to deny them U.S. citizenship, but without truly granting the kind of immunity from the laws that has long been granted to foreign diplomats.
I would propose to at least bring up this issue in the article — and probably make other edits in order to come close to achieving NPOV. Comments, anyone? Richwales 01:53, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that the term is becoming used more and more in a racist connotation by hate groups to describe hispanics in general, regardless of knowledge of their ancestry. For example, I've noticed that on the SOS forums, the term "anchor baby" is included with other racist language that is shouted at protesting hispanics. Glenn Spencer of American Patrol also favors the word when referring to some hispanics even if he has little knowledge of their ancestry. Does anyone else agree that this should be included in the article? Mosquito-001 14:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
The two listed sources say unequivocally that this is a pejorative term. If editors want to say that it is only sometimes used as a pejoriatve, then they need to find a source which says so. - Will Beback 12:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Using the Term pejorative violates the NPOV rule of wikipedia and has been removed by me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.17.0.101 ( talk • contribs).
Two source claiming somthing as pejorative does not make it a majority opinion. Wikipedia is based on majority. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.17.0.101 ( talk • contribs).
"Nativists claim that the baby would become the "anchor" of a chain by which its family may receive benefits from social programs, and by which the parents may themselves eventually become lawful permanent residents or citizens of the United States."
Ummm, no. That is the fact of the matter, and the use of the charged and pejorative term "nativist" is yet another slander in this hideously-biased smear piece. BulldogPete 23:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)