This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
There are a couple of words that are not clear to me on first reading the article. "posibilitate" I believe this is a French word that should be translated into English. "rentiers" This is a British word for someone who rents. It should have a link to a reputable definition for the American reader or be replaced with something more accessible. Dictionary.com doesn't have it.
The British spelling doesn't really bother me, but mixing in French as well makes the article less approachable. IMHO. -- darklilac 15:01, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
This article talks about capitalism but never bothers to define it. Apparently a lot of leftists, including left anarchists, don't define it as it is commonly defined today [1]. I suggest a definition of capitalism be included so everyone is speaking, and understanding, the same language. RJII 02:34, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Capitalism have many definitions...
...but basicly it's the system where the menas of production is owned by a few and they then buy the labour they need from thw workers who have to sell it since they have nothing else to sell. It's a form of time limited slavery or wage slavery. The capitalists then live on the difference between what they pay for the labour and what the labour is actually worth ( surplus value). Also see The " capitalist mode of production" // Liftarn
Proudhon (General Idea of the Revolution in the 19th Century) argues that trade creates wealth; in his view, trade, like labor, is a legitimate source of wealth. Jacob Haller 17:20, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The article says "Anarchists say that.." "Anarchists argue that..." etc, but not all anarchists have the same arguments, so it's not clear what kind of anarchist it's talking about, whether communists, mutualists, or what. Also the "anarchists" may not include anarcho-capitalists. There should probably be a section on anarcho-capitalist critique of capitalism as well. Also, the title ("Anarchism and capitalism") doesn't indicate that this article is about critiquing capitalism, but that's all this article is about. The title should probably be changed, don't you think? Anarcho-capitalism 13:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Carson argues that markets tend to more evenly distribute wealth. So it is controversial whether markets tend to concentrate wealth (and thus recreate hierarchies) or disperse wealth (and thus undermine hierarchies). Jacob Haller 17:20, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The article is anarchism and capitalism, it has been turned into social anarchism v. "anarcho"-capitalism. There should be some space dedicated to talking about how ancaps support capitalism, but more should be towards anarchism involvement in anti-capitalist endeavors throughout history, and I am extremely disappointed that there is no detailed mention of mutualists or market anarchists (anarchists who are anti-capitalist but still support free markets). Lenerd ( talk) 05:47, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Anarchist objections to capitalism redirects to this page, and this page is referenced by Anti-capitalism. I created it to pare down the already-lengthy anarchism article, and as a parallel to the Marxist equivalent. I think it should not be deleted, but merged into Critique of capitalism.-- albamuth ( talk) 22:22, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
It's called "anarchism and capitalism," not "anarchist critique of capitalism," so to be fair and balanced it needs both anarchist praise and anarchist condemnation of capitalism. Right now, it's very heavily weighted toward criticism of capitalism. It was totally so, until I just put in an anarcho-capitalism section. Plan your rocks ( talk) 21:26, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Considering there are several criticism pages of capitalism and anarcho-capitalism, I think it would be good to incorporate this page into those two pages. This article repeats a lot of information and since, as has been pointed out, most anarchists are historically critical of capitalism, I think that this would serve WP better by giving the criticism articles a broader base. Soxwon ( talk) 15:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
This article looks like it's missing the anarcho-capitalist view on capitalism. Anarcho-capitalism 20:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Anarcho-captalism is an oxymoron
This article just doesn't belong in Wikipedia in its current form. It says up-front that it isn't providing a balanced viewpoint—therefore, it doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. Wikipedia is fundamentally intended to be NPOV, not to have blatantly ideological articles. The fact that the article admits it's ideological is immaterial. This article's content isn't all bad, but its phrasing needs to be completely overhauled, and capitalist responses need to be added. For now, I'm adding the POV check template. — Simetrical ( talk) 21:01, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Claims of "most anarchists" claims did not obtain a proper source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.95.129.245 ( talk) 19:56, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
As well, call for a balance and "Right Anarchism Against Socialism" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.95.129.245 ( talk) 19:59, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
...between the "arguments" put forth by these so-called "anarchists", and the "arguments" put forth by commies and pinkos. Nothing but the same old Marxist bullshit that is slowly being relegated to the ash heap of history.
Socialists, communists, and any other Marxists are INCAPABLE of being anarchists.
To the idiot who wrote that LOAD OF CRAP ABOUT ANARCHO-CAPITALISM NOT BEING AN OXYMORON ANARCHO-CAPITALISM IS AN OXYMORON. NO ANARCHIST CAN EVER BE A CAPITALIST —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Phoneabove ( talk • contribs) 00:43, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
Delete this article. One cant be an anarchist without being capitalist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.95.129.245 ( talk) 20:03, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
198.84.162.153 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:12, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Anarchism and capitalism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:00, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Anarchism and capitalism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:59, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Anarchism and capitalism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:55, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
I have a few questions for the writer of this article,
I look forward to your clearifications. Wekins
This is ridiculous. Anarchists oppose one man ruling over another. "Anarcho"-Capitalism creates an enviroment inwhich a boss has even more authority over his workers. See the problem? Authority vs anti-authority? Fake Anarchism vs Real Anarchism. Why are you all so keen on hijacking the term anarchist? You already hijacked libertarian.
Is the anarchist FAQ from which this was adopted part of the public domain? Are we allowed to use it in the first place? Dave 08:34, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)
Honestly, it seems like someone forced their POV in. The Anarchist ideologies in general have a consensus that capitalism is a hierarchy and therefore AnCaps aren't anarchists. This article is about Anarchist's critique against capitalism, yet in this article you can find what "An"Caps think. It's ridiculous if you ask me. Anarchists also criticize the academia for being a place of reproducing liberalism, so the argument in the archive that apparently some obscure academics argue anarcho-capitalism to be anarchism is quite ironic, to say the least. Cheers. DefendingFree ( talk) 21:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
There are a couple of words that are not clear to me on first reading the article. "posibilitate" I believe this is a French word that should be translated into English. "rentiers" This is a British word for someone who rents. It should have a link to a reputable definition for the American reader or be replaced with something more accessible. Dictionary.com doesn't have it.
The British spelling doesn't really bother me, but mixing in French as well makes the article less approachable. IMHO. -- darklilac 15:01, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
This article talks about capitalism but never bothers to define it. Apparently a lot of leftists, including left anarchists, don't define it as it is commonly defined today [1]. I suggest a definition of capitalism be included so everyone is speaking, and understanding, the same language. RJII 02:34, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Capitalism have many definitions...
...but basicly it's the system where the menas of production is owned by a few and they then buy the labour they need from thw workers who have to sell it since they have nothing else to sell. It's a form of time limited slavery or wage slavery. The capitalists then live on the difference between what they pay for the labour and what the labour is actually worth ( surplus value). Also see The " capitalist mode of production" // Liftarn
Proudhon (General Idea of the Revolution in the 19th Century) argues that trade creates wealth; in his view, trade, like labor, is a legitimate source of wealth. Jacob Haller 17:20, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The article says "Anarchists say that.." "Anarchists argue that..." etc, but not all anarchists have the same arguments, so it's not clear what kind of anarchist it's talking about, whether communists, mutualists, or what. Also the "anarchists" may not include anarcho-capitalists. There should probably be a section on anarcho-capitalist critique of capitalism as well. Also, the title ("Anarchism and capitalism") doesn't indicate that this article is about critiquing capitalism, but that's all this article is about. The title should probably be changed, don't you think? Anarcho-capitalism 13:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Carson argues that markets tend to more evenly distribute wealth. So it is controversial whether markets tend to concentrate wealth (and thus recreate hierarchies) or disperse wealth (and thus undermine hierarchies). Jacob Haller 17:20, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The article is anarchism and capitalism, it has been turned into social anarchism v. "anarcho"-capitalism. There should be some space dedicated to talking about how ancaps support capitalism, but more should be towards anarchism involvement in anti-capitalist endeavors throughout history, and I am extremely disappointed that there is no detailed mention of mutualists or market anarchists (anarchists who are anti-capitalist but still support free markets). Lenerd ( talk) 05:47, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Anarchist objections to capitalism redirects to this page, and this page is referenced by Anti-capitalism. I created it to pare down the already-lengthy anarchism article, and as a parallel to the Marxist equivalent. I think it should not be deleted, but merged into Critique of capitalism.-- albamuth ( talk) 22:22, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
It's called "anarchism and capitalism," not "anarchist critique of capitalism," so to be fair and balanced it needs both anarchist praise and anarchist condemnation of capitalism. Right now, it's very heavily weighted toward criticism of capitalism. It was totally so, until I just put in an anarcho-capitalism section. Plan your rocks ( talk) 21:26, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Considering there are several criticism pages of capitalism and anarcho-capitalism, I think it would be good to incorporate this page into those two pages. This article repeats a lot of information and since, as has been pointed out, most anarchists are historically critical of capitalism, I think that this would serve WP better by giving the criticism articles a broader base. Soxwon ( talk) 15:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
This article looks like it's missing the anarcho-capitalist view on capitalism. Anarcho-capitalism 20:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Anarcho-captalism is an oxymoron
This article just doesn't belong in Wikipedia in its current form. It says up-front that it isn't providing a balanced viewpoint—therefore, it doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. Wikipedia is fundamentally intended to be NPOV, not to have blatantly ideological articles. The fact that the article admits it's ideological is immaterial. This article's content isn't all bad, but its phrasing needs to be completely overhauled, and capitalist responses need to be added. For now, I'm adding the POV check template. — Simetrical ( talk) 21:01, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Claims of "most anarchists" claims did not obtain a proper source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.95.129.245 ( talk) 19:56, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
As well, call for a balance and "Right Anarchism Against Socialism" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.95.129.245 ( talk) 19:59, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
...between the "arguments" put forth by these so-called "anarchists", and the "arguments" put forth by commies and pinkos. Nothing but the same old Marxist bullshit that is slowly being relegated to the ash heap of history.
Socialists, communists, and any other Marxists are INCAPABLE of being anarchists.
To the idiot who wrote that LOAD OF CRAP ABOUT ANARCHO-CAPITALISM NOT BEING AN OXYMORON ANARCHO-CAPITALISM IS AN OXYMORON. NO ANARCHIST CAN EVER BE A CAPITALIST —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Phoneabove ( talk • contribs) 00:43, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
Delete this article. One cant be an anarchist without being capitalist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.95.129.245 ( talk) 20:03, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
198.84.162.153 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:12, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Anarchism and capitalism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:00, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Anarchism and capitalism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:59, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Anarchism and capitalism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:55, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
I have a few questions for the writer of this article,
I look forward to your clearifications. Wekins
This is ridiculous. Anarchists oppose one man ruling over another. "Anarcho"-Capitalism creates an enviroment inwhich a boss has even more authority over his workers. See the problem? Authority vs anti-authority? Fake Anarchism vs Real Anarchism. Why are you all so keen on hijacking the term anarchist? You already hijacked libertarian.
Is the anarchist FAQ from which this was adopted part of the public domain? Are we allowed to use it in the first place? Dave 08:34, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)
Honestly, it seems like someone forced their POV in. The Anarchist ideologies in general have a consensus that capitalism is a hierarchy and therefore AnCaps aren't anarchists. This article is about Anarchist's critique against capitalism, yet in this article you can find what "An"Caps think. It's ridiculous if you ask me. Anarchists also criticize the academia for being a place of reproducing liberalism, so the argument in the archive that apparently some obscure academics argue anarcho-capitalism to be anarchism is quite ironic, to say the least. Cheers. DefendingFree ( talk) 21:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)