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The Iranian origins of An Lushan seem to be denied by some contributors. For a start "An" means "Parthia" in Chinese, as in 安息 and 安国. Please check Google also, where An Lushan is more often associated with "Iranian" (25000 hits) than with "Sogdian" (only 913 hits). What is this seemingly POV obsession with the Sogdian (to the exclusion of Iranian) affiliation of An Lushan? PHG 05:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
The mention of An Lushan being partly of Iranian descent is sourced from the Encyclopedia Britannica: Encyclopedia Britannica article PHG 06:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
"Google hits" is really not a good scholarly results, not unless you wanna make fool of yourself again. I had more scholarly sources than yours, so you're really in no position to talk back. Eiorgiomugini 07:59, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
While there's no rule that we should follow Google instead of provided sources. Get that through your argument. "not reason enough for erasing "Encyclopedia Brittanica" Like I said evidence, since you claimed I deleted your sources. And furthermore you're in no position to judge on obscure Chinese-languages, as well as other foreign sources, since you don't read them. Eiorgiomugini 08:11, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
"STOP deleting the references of others" Please provide a proof that I had deleted your reference, otherwise stop making nonsense. Eiorgiomugini 08:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Are you being ludicrous, even at here. The "Encyclopedia Brittanica" and "Iranian" (under note) still stayed, are you sure you know what you're talking about or just whining about me? Furthermore, an award can be given to anyone else by anyone, read the policy, they are not necessarily positive ones. Eiorgiomugini 08:16, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
And you have no right to restore it either, since Britannica also said he was from Bukhara, is just not a solidity source for you to make that claim, plus the source is confusing on whether refering to Iranian speaking popluation or just Iranian. "dislike seeing the word "Iranian"" Is not about disliking, but there's no evidence. Secondly, you have no right to say I made personal attacks either, since the award I given contain civility manner, it might be insult to you though, since you don't like it. I am sorry, I had no time to accompany with you on this petty matters, as I had thing to do back in my life. Eiorgiomugini 08:28, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
"personal interpretation" I cut and paste out from Brittanica, and you said the rest is my own personal interpretation, good one, so what's next? Eiorgiomugini 08:37, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
And if Brittanica said he was Turkish, you might had to accept it? So what if I found out some link in the google that said he was a Chinese general and nothing else, are you gonna take that? Eiorgiomugini 08:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
You seem to misunderstand a fundamental characteristic of Wikipedia, first of all you have no right to make such big claim on me, since I was the one who tired to balance the article, not you. Furthermore, the source you provided still stayed there, and regarding the method on his origin that Brittanica used is quite confusing, you don't seem to bother the matters, instead insisting on reverting my edits, so what are you gonna do? Plus I do have right to put your source under the note for better clarification. "If you have references about him being "a Chinese general and nothing else" Good, make sure you kept your words, I don't wish to have another revert while I inserting about his Chinese origin. Anyway, see you later, as I have no time to string along with you any further. Eiorgiomugini 08:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
" I... can read Chinese enough to check your sources." Sorry, I just found this amusing, judging from the sources I provided on Yuezhi talk last year, I don't think you could read them very well. So this whole argument could be meaningless. Eiorgiomugini 11:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
So far from what I can see, you had provided no source or proof whatsoever to back up your claim, and even Brittanica agreed he was from Sogdiana. I even found the statnment "Turkic-Sogdian or Iranian origin" quite confusing, does that meant he was half Turk and Sogdian, or just a full 'blooded' Iranian. Eiorgiomugini 11:50, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Certainly I do not, but I do think those are the crucial point to be mentioned. As you can see, this disccusion could go into a meaningless chat for both of us. Respectable source does not necessarily mean the truth, and sometime it can be confusing, "Brittanica says "Turkish and Iranian origin" I already told you that this is in fact contradicting in the context of Brittanica itself. I don't know why you're so vexatious over this petty matter. Your compromise really are confusing, first of all Brittanica stated he was of Turkish descent not Turkic. Eiorgiomugini 15:06, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Good so stop reverting, and keep the "Iranian" under the note, because by no means the Brittanica are being clear in the context, since it provided two origins. You're the one who care so much about An Lushan origin instead of someone erases you referenced contributions or whatever crap you wanna to claim [1] [2] [3], so much so that you're willing to take the risk on 3R. So you should move on and go on with another article. Moreover if you think you are under personal attacks go complain on somewhere else and stop bothering me. Now there's more source said he was a Sogdian in East Asia: A Cultural, Social, and Political History and Charles Benn's China's Golden Age: Everyday Life in the Tang Dynasty, not just the obscure Chinese-languages sources. I reiterate your incomprehensible statnment "Turkic and Sogdian/Iranian origin" is really quite coufusing, get that through your head for once, Brittanica said is Turkish-Iranian then is should be Turkish-Iranian for Brittanica alone. Eiorgiomugini 23:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
By the way, why deny the linkage of Kang (康国) to Kangju? Do you consider it as a different polity? If so could you elaborate? Would that justify a different article for Kang (康国)? PHG 00:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Another false accusations and warning. So, you had changed the lead section, however, I do not think they're going to do any good, I am going to make some changes. "If so could you elaborate" I don't have to elaborate anything, since I don't made the claim that Kangju was Kang. You claimed Kang to be Kangju, you're the one who needed to elaborate it, do you have any sources? Most primary source would certainly disagreed. Eiorgiomugini 02:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't think I owe you this. However, Kang was a name for Sogdian state during the Sui and Tang. Was that enough? Eiorgiomugini 03:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Like I said, you need to provide your source before making this claim. But so far, I from what I know that, both Kangju and Kang had a different captial. Eiorgiomugini 03:19, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I found the image confusing, since you input the photo, how do you know that those are Sogdian and not Tocharians or Iranian, do you have any source for this? Eiorgiomugini 03:26, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Not all people are willing to pay for a ticket to Guimet Museum you know, can you be more specific on how was Guimet Museum a source for the people in the photo to be Sogdians? Eiorgiomugini 03:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Alright, we all just wanna be sure that whether those photo are appropriate, since you mentioned about the caption, do you happen to have the caption detail or photo that has been shot? Eiorgiomugini 03:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Very neat, now may I ask why you keep dividing the section of our discussion? When I asked a question, I don't prefer to title it as a section, so I hope you respect my will too. Eiorgiomugini 04:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Yet another false accusations, now I am afraid if you continued to do this, I will have to ignore them. "By the way you forgot to answer to the previous subject (Kang and Kangju" No, I had answered it anyway, for as much of what I had know. Below, do you think is courteous for you to make all these sections even on my own question? "this (long) discussion" I have an opinion, why don't you moved all these irreverent question over to your talk. Eiorgiomugini 04:16, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
No, you're the one being discourteous in the first place by dividing the sections and making false accusations. You insisted Kangju was the same with Kang, good, provide a source instead of interpreting my source, because my source did not said he was from Kangju. What you're doing is really discourteous without even discuss with others, don't forget those are the source I provided, you are the one being discourteous, so even there is a absence of any proof that they should be treated separately, there's no proof that they should be treated the same, as Kangju belonged to Han Dynasty era not Tang, is a anachronism. Eiorgiomugini 04:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
And could you explain why isn't your accusations being discourteous, first you're talking about I reverted your edits under the discussion, then start talking about civility. "obvious connection" How obvious they are by the way? "you really need a good reason" No, you're the one who need a good reason for changing my source. " Kangju was the Chinese name for Sogdiana" So? Does he mentioned anything about Kang? And Sogdiana was a huge region as well. "This is more than enough" There's none, so far you had provided nothing of they're connection, the main point is my source stated he was from Kang not Kangju, get that straight. "I don't see any reason to disconnect them" That's your own opinion. "If you wish to contradict that" Like what you did under this article? "you will have to bring references indicating that Kangju and Kan are unrelated geographical entities" No, you'll have to bring up a source for Kang being Kangju. "even if their capital may have changed in time" Another assumption, one more restore on linking Kang to Kangju, I will have to simply revert it, I hope that you do know what're talking about, and stop wasting others time for that Kang=Kangju unreferenced crap to bring up another reverting war. Eiorgiomugini 04:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Let me throw in my two cents here -- it is my opinion that the linkage of Kang and Kangju is fairly obvious (although not completely conclusive), at least according to traditional Chinese sources, and those sources, unless refuted, are generally fairly reliable. I'd suggest that the Kang = Kangju linkage is permissible here, but that somewhere in the Kangju article should be explained that Kang is likely the same entity (or successor) but is not conclusively so, and that should solve the issue. -- Nlu ( talk) 05:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
For me, linking Kang to Kangju without any reference is much of an arbitrary decision, I am thinking of keeping it without any link, and for article Kangju, since is really not related to his origin here, should be mentioned and explained there about the relation between Kang and Kangju. Eiorgiomugini 05:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Maybe I'm currently tired (or too much French), so I will come back tomorrow to read it a 2nd time calmly, but I think the section An_Lushan#Rebellion have some odd unclear sentences (redaction). 220.135.4.212 ( talk) 13:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to fail this GA for quite a few reasons. For one, most of the article is not formatted correctly. Instead of using bold print for subtopics of the topics, you can put ===Subtitle===, and if needed, ====Subtitle====. Also, the references need to be formatted correctly. Also, the lead section (prose) is much too short. Next, 'Young life' just doesn't sound good as a topic. Some others don't either, and I'd look into renaming them. Finally, all the Chinese characters (I think), do not show up in either Mozilla Firefox or Internet Explorer. I don't know if there is any way to fix this, but since these are not supported by either major browser, I'd look into fixing that. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me on my talk page. Cheers, ṜέđṃάяķvюĨїήīṣŢ Drop me a line Review Me! 02:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Many articles on Chinese history seem to suffer from a tendency not to conform to a standard that requires writing from a neutral point of view. Here I'm not sure why there is a section on his supposed stubbornness, (is that even correct to have section title like that?) If that is the recorded opinion of some historical tracts, then say who thinks that is true, instead of asserting as if this is a fact. There are numerous other instances where there appear to be a bias against An Lushan and for Yang Guozhong. Article appears to be written in a sinocentric manner (e.g. using non-Han generals is taken as good evidence of supposed intention to rebel). Also what happened to the event at Mawei village where Yang Guozhong was assassinated by the guards? I'm adjusting where I can (which is not a lot), but please write in as neutral a manner as possible. Accounts from ancient texts are often biased towards one point of view and such bias should be avoided in wikipedia when relying on such texts, and reword as necessary. Hzh ( talk) 19:42, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Roxanna was not Sodighan, she was a Bactrian! also Roxana was an Avestan name borrowed into Sodighan and middle persian. I think that whole line should be removed from the article since it is completely irrelevant to An Lushan! Akmal94 ( talk) 08:39, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
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I do not find any source which translate the Chinese character La(剌) as "unthinking". La(剌) means "1. perverse; unreasonable" "2.to contradict; to violate" (based on https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%89%8C#Chinese) or "slash; contradict" ( based on https://zh.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%89%8C).I suggest the notation of meaning should be updated to "slash; contradict" or others.
By the way, "unthinkable" might be not bad as a free translation of "剌". I guess the noter might had a typo. 240B:C020:481:1BA3:915A:E3B0:7AC6:1C44 ( talk) 06:15, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
It seems the current portrait file page offers no info regarding when its was painted, nor the painter.
It surely is an East Asian style painting, but what if this was actually not An Lushan? Could this painting be made during An Lushan's time? Vc06697 ( talk) 17:12, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
An Lushan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | An Lushan was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||
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![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on January 29, 2014, and January 29, 2015. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The Iranian origins of An Lushan seem to be denied by some contributors. For a start "An" means "Parthia" in Chinese, as in 安息 and 安国. Please check Google also, where An Lushan is more often associated with "Iranian" (25000 hits) than with "Sogdian" (only 913 hits). What is this seemingly POV obsession with the Sogdian (to the exclusion of Iranian) affiliation of An Lushan? PHG 05:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
The mention of An Lushan being partly of Iranian descent is sourced from the Encyclopedia Britannica: Encyclopedia Britannica article PHG 06:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
"Google hits" is really not a good scholarly results, not unless you wanna make fool of yourself again. I had more scholarly sources than yours, so you're really in no position to talk back. Eiorgiomugini 07:59, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
While there's no rule that we should follow Google instead of provided sources. Get that through your argument. "not reason enough for erasing "Encyclopedia Brittanica" Like I said evidence, since you claimed I deleted your sources. And furthermore you're in no position to judge on obscure Chinese-languages, as well as other foreign sources, since you don't read them. Eiorgiomugini 08:11, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
"STOP deleting the references of others" Please provide a proof that I had deleted your reference, otherwise stop making nonsense. Eiorgiomugini 08:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Are you being ludicrous, even at here. The "Encyclopedia Brittanica" and "Iranian" (under note) still stayed, are you sure you know what you're talking about or just whining about me? Furthermore, an award can be given to anyone else by anyone, read the policy, they are not necessarily positive ones. Eiorgiomugini 08:16, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
And you have no right to restore it either, since Britannica also said he was from Bukhara, is just not a solidity source for you to make that claim, plus the source is confusing on whether refering to Iranian speaking popluation or just Iranian. "dislike seeing the word "Iranian"" Is not about disliking, but there's no evidence. Secondly, you have no right to say I made personal attacks either, since the award I given contain civility manner, it might be insult to you though, since you don't like it. I am sorry, I had no time to accompany with you on this petty matters, as I had thing to do back in my life. Eiorgiomugini 08:28, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
"personal interpretation" I cut and paste out from Brittanica, and you said the rest is my own personal interpretation, good one, so what's next? Eiorgiomugini 08:37, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
And if Brittanica said he was Turkish, you might had to accept it? So what if I found out some link in the google that said he was a Chinese general and nothing else, are you gonna take that? Eiorgiomugini 08:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
You seem to misunderstand a fundamental characteristic of Wikipedia, first of all you have no right to make such big claim on me, since I was the one who tired to balance the article, not you. Furthermore, the source you provided still stayed there, and regarding the method on his origin that Brittanica used is quite confusing, you don't seem to bother the matters, instead insisting on reverting my edits, so what are you gonna do? Plus I do have right to put your source under the note for better clarification. "If you have references about him being "a Chinese general and nothing else" Good, make sure you kept your words, I don't wish to have another revert while I inserting about his Chinese origin. Anyway, see you later, as I have no time to string along with you any further. Eiorgiomugini 08:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
" I... can read Chinese enough to check your sources." Sorry, I just found this amusing, judging from the sources I provided on Yuezhi talk last year, I don't think you could read them very well. So this whole argument could be meaningless. Eiorgiomugini 11:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
So far from what I can see, you had provided no source or proof whatsoever to back up your claim, and even Brittanica agreed he was from Sogdiana. I even found the statnment "Turkic-Sogdian or Iranian origin" quite confusing, does that meant he was half Turk and Sogdian, or just a full 'blooded' Iranian. Eiorgiomugini 11:50, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Certainly I do not, but I do think those are the crucial point to be mentioned. As you can see, this disccusion could go into a meaningless chat for both of us. Respectable source does not necessarily mean the truth, and sometime it can be confusing, "Brittanica says "Turkish and Iranian origin" I already told you that this is in fact contradicting in the context of Brittanica itself. I don't know why you're so vexatious over this petty matter. Your compromise really are confusing, first of all Brittanica stated he was of Turkish descent not Turkic. Eiorgiomugini 15:06, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Good so stop reverting, and keep the "Iranian" under the note, because by no means the Brittanica are being clear in the context, since it provided two origins. You're the one who care so much about An Lushan origin instead of someone erases you referenced contributions or whatever crap you wanna to claim [1] [2] [3], so much so that you're willing to take the risk on 3R. So you should move on and go on with another article. Moreover if you think you are under personal attacks go complain on somewhere else and stop bothering me. Now there's more source said he was a Sogdian in East Asia: A Cultural, Social, and Political History and Charles Benn's China's Golden Age: Everyday Life in the Tang Dynasty, not just the obscure Chinese-languages sources. I reiterate your incomprehensible statnment "Turkic and Sogdian/Iranian origin" is really quite coufusing, get that through your head for once, Brittanica said is Turkish-Iranian then is should be Turkish-Iranian for Brittanica alone. Eiorgiomugini 23:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
By the way, why deny the linkage of Kang (康国) to Kangju? Do you consider it as a different polity? If so could you elaborate? Would that justify a different article for Kang (康国)? PHG 00:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Another false accusations and warning. So, you had changed the lead section, however, I do not think they're going to do any good, I am going to make some changes. "If so could you elaborate" I don't have to elaborate anything, since I don't made the claim that Kangju was Kang. You claimed Kang to be Kangju, you're the one who needed to elaborate it, do you have any sources? Most primary source would certainly disagreed. Eiorgiomugini 02:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't think I owe you this. However, Kang was a name for Sogdian state during the Sui and Tang. Was that enough? Eiorgiomugini 03:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Like I said, you need to provide your source before making this claim. But so far, I from what I know that, both Kangju and Kang had a different captial. Eiorgiomugini 03:19, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I found the image confusing, since you input the photo, how do you know that those are Sogdian and not Tocharians or Iranian, do you have any source for this? Eiorgiomugini 03:26, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Not all people are willing to pay for a ticket to Guimet Museum you know, can you be more specific on how was Guimet Museum a source for the people in the photo to be Sogdians? Eiorgiomugini 03:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Alright, we all just wanna be sure that whether those photo are appropriate, since you mentioned about the caption, do you happen to have the caption detail or photo that has been shot? Eiorgiomugini 03:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Very neat, now may I ask why you keep dividing the section of our discussion? When I asked a question, I don't prefer to title it as a section, so I hope you respect my will too. Eiorgiomugini 04:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Yet another false accusations, now I am afraid if you continued to do this, I will have to ignore them. "By the way you forgot to answer to the previous subject (Kang and Kangju" No, I had answered it anyway, for as much of what I had know. Below, do you think is courteous for you to make all these sections even on my own question? "this (long) discussion" I have an opinion, why don't you moved all these irreverent question over to your talk. Eiorgiomugini 04:16, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
No, you're the one being discourteous in the first place by dividing the sections and making false accusations. You insisted Kangju was the same with Kang, good, provide a source instead of interpreting my source, because my source did not said he was from Kangju. What you're doing is really discourteous without even discuss with others, don't forget those are the source I provided, you are the one being discourteous, so even there is a absence of any proof that they should be treated separately, there's no proof that they should be treated the same, as Kangju belonged to Han Dynasty era not Tang, is a anachronism. Eiorgiomugini 04:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
And could you explain why isn't your accusations being discourteous, first you're talking about I reverted your edits under the discussion, then start talking about civility. "obvious connection" How obvious they are by the way? "you really need a good reason" No, you're the one who need a good reason for changing my source. " Kangju was the Chinese name for Sogdiana" So? Does he mentioned anything about Kang? And Sogdiana was a huge region as well. "This is more than enough" There's none, so far you had provided nothing of they're connection, the main point is my source stated he was from Kang not Kangju, get that straight. "I don't see any reason to disconnect them" That's your own opinion. "If you wish to contradict that" Like what you did under this article? "you will have to bring references indicating that Kangju and Kan are unrelated geographical entities" No, you'll have to bring up a source for Kang being Kangju. "even if their capital may have changed in time" Another assumption, one more restore on linking Kang to Kangju, I will have to simply revert it, I hope that you do know what're talking about, and stop wasting others time for that Kang=Kangju unreferenced crap to bring up another reverting war. Eiorgiomugini 04:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Let me throw in my two cents here -- it is my opinion that the linkage of Kang and Kangju is fairly obvious (although not completely conclusive), at least according to traditional Chinese sources, and those sources, unless refuted, are generally fairly reliable. I'd suggest that the Kang = Kangju linkage is permissible here, but that somewhere in the Kangju article should be explained that Kang is likely the same entity (or successor) but is not conclusively so, and that should solve the issue. -- Nlu ( talk) 05:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
For me, linking Kang to Kangju without any reference is much of an arbitrary decision, I am thinking of keeping it without any link, and for article Kangju, since is really not related to his origin here, should be mentioned and explained there about the relation between Kang and Kangju. Eiorgiomugini 05:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Maybe I'm currently tired (or too much French), so I will come back tomorrow to read it a 2nd time calmly, but I think the section An_Lushan#Rebellion have some odd unclear sentences (redaction). 220.135.4.212 ( talk) 13:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to fail this GA for quite a few reasons. For one, most of the article is not formatted correctly. Instead of using bold print for subtopics of the topics, you can put ===Subtitle===, and if needed, ====Subtitle====. Also, the references need to be formatted correctly. Also, the lead section (prose) is much too short. Next, 'Young life' just doesn't sound good as a topic. Some others don't either, and I'd look into renaming them. Finally, all the Chinese characters (I think), do not show up in either Mozilla Firefox or Internet Explorer. I don't know if there is any way to fix this, but since these are not supported by either major browser, I'd look into fixing that. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me on my talk page. Cheers, ṜέđṃάяķvюĨїήīṣŢ Drop me a line Review Me! 02:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Many articles on Chinese history seem to suffer from a tendency not to conform to a standard that requires writing from a neutral point of view. Here I'm not sure why there is a section on his supposed stubbornness, (is that even correct to have section title like that?) If that is the recorded opinion of some historical tracts, then say who thinks that is true, instead of asserting as if this is a fact. There are numerous other instances where there appear to be a bias against An Lushan and for Yang Guozhong. Article appears to be written in a sinocentric manner (e.g. using non-Han generals is taken as good evidence of supposed intention to rebel). Also what happened to the event at Mawei village where Yang Guozhong was assassinated by the guards? I'm adjusting where I can (which is not a lot), but please write in as neutral a manner as possible. Accounts from ancient texts are often biased towards one point of view and such bias should be avoided in wikipedia when relying on such texts, and reword as necessary. Hzh ( talk) 19:42, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Roxanna was not Sodighan, she was a Bactrian! also Roxana was an Avestan name borrowed into Sodighan and middle persian. I think that whole line should be removed from the article since it is completely irrelevant to An Lushan! Akmal94 ( talk) 08:39, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
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I do not find any source which translate the Chinese character La(剌) as "unthinking". La(剌) means "1. perverse; unreasonable" "2.to contradict; to violate" (based on https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%89%8C#Chinese) or "slash; contradict" ( based on https://zh.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%89%8C).I suggest the notation of meaning should be updated to "slash; contradict" or others.
By the way, "unthinkable" might be not bad as a free translation of "剌". I guess the noter might had a typo. 240B:C020:481:1BA3:915A:E3B0:7AC6:1C44 ( talk) 06:15, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
It seems the current portrait file page offers no info regarding when its was painted, nor the painter.
It surely is an East Asian style painting, but what if this was actually not An Lushan? Could this painting be made during An Lushan's time? Vc06697 ( talk) 17:12, 21 June 2024 (UTC)