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Seems like we're having member term history problems. So let's stop editing that section now and try to work this out the best we could. See Themgoroth's profile at metalstorm.ee; for Amon Amarth it says 1988-1991 and not 1992, therefore it is a contradiction. Also, here is Amon Amarth's page: [1] just for reference. Though I fear this might just be a mirror of wikipedia informaition. Can anything be found out there that remotely shows when they were a member? FireCrystal ( talk) 23:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Amon Amarth is not viking metal, viking metal is a mix of viking themed folk metal and black metal, amon amarth is viking themed melodic death metal, so, they are not death metal, and just because a website says they are, that dosnt mean that they are, theres websites that say slayer is death metal, slayer isnt death metal, if you believed every single site and citedit on wikipedia, than the pages would be cluddered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.116.10.54 ( talk) 04:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Wondering this hasn't been asked so far, but anyway Nico's lastname in the musicbox is "Mehra". However across the discographies an former members the his name is "Kaukinen".
Can someone provide the correct surname (Kaukinen seems a valid lastname, Mehra is some middle name, nickname, etc?) - ideally with some reference.
Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.176.40.110 ( talk) 17:50, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
I see we are still going back and forth over whether or not the genre Viking Metal should be applied to Amon Amarth. I'd like to see some consensus building on this issue rather than just reverting back and forth, because as far as I can tell, no solid consensus has ever been reached on the issue at this talk page. Please remember that Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought, so wikipedians' opinions don't count, only reliable secondary sources count. Thus, the challenge is this: if reliable secondary sources can be produced that directly state Amon Amarth plays Viking Metal, then the genre should be included in the article; but if those sources can be demonstrated to be unreliable sources (following the guidelines established at WP:RS, not our own opinions), then the genre should be excluded from the article. !votes to include or exclude the Viking Metal genre are okay, but please be sure to include your rationale and cite reliable sources, WP policy and editorial guides, etc., because votes don't count in the end; discussion is what matters here. Thank you! Wilhelm Meis ( ☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 18:16, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
First: Welcome back Navnløs! Second: As the Viking metal article describes, the origins of Viking metal did arise primarily from black metal. However, David W. Marshall in Mass Market Medieval: Essays on the Middle Ages in Popular Culture says Viking metal includes symbolism of black and death metal (pg. 65), and cites both the black and death metal scenes in late 1980's Scandinavia as origins of the genre (ps. 62, 63).-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 19:25, 24 June 2013 (UTC) Another point: While the assertion that Viking metal primarily emerged from black metal is supported by reliable sources, it also is complicated by the then highly interchangeable use of labels in the 80's extreme metal scene by media and journalists. Prior to the Norwegian wave in the early 90s the terms thrash, death, black metal, and even speed metal were often used interchangeably and black metal was initially only a lyrical distinction. However, even if we ignore this, Amon Amarth did not even form until 1992, after Viking metal already emerged as a genre. Genres evolve, so it is perfectly reasonable for a band like Amon Amarth to be labeled Viking metal. Emo initially meant a form of post-hardcore, but now is practically interchangeable with pop punk. My point is, Bathory, pioneered the style in the late 80's (ignoring earlier, non-extreme contenders like Heavy Load), so while Amon Amarth formed in '92, the style had already developed, and newer bands like Amon Amarth and Unleashed could be considered a new evolution of the style, taking the lyrical themes of a black metal offshoot and applying these themes to a death metal sound.-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 23:23, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Split - Discography section is becoming long with respect to the remainder of the article and should be split. Thoughts? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 12:26, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
People keep adding viking metal to the genre section. I agree with them being Death Metal and Melodic Death Metal, but viking metal is a totally different genre related to black metal. Eg: bands like Bathory. Amon Amarth's music is nowhere near the style of Bathory or any other true viking metal band.Please provide proper sources. Even Johan Hegg mentioned in this article that they do not consider their music to be viking metal at all. Knightrider abhi ( talk) 04:38, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
You are absolutely correct, unfortunately, some people's mindsets are incapable of accepting such a simple concept.
TenaciousDio (
talk) 06:12, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
As many have stated before, viking metal is a black metal subgenre. Amon Amarth are a death metal band. If you want to add viking metal, yo're going to need sources and consensus. BrainPower3 ( talk) 19:37, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
I recently restored "Viking metal" to the infobox, as that seems to be the consensus that emerged here. Another editor challenged this, and I regret to say that we got into an edit war. I've refrained from editing the page for now, and currently Viking metal is not listed in the infobox. However, I managed to find some sources that should definitively settle the issue once and for all.
In The Metal Void, a publication that came out of the Heavy Metal Fundamentalisms conference, there is an article, "Metal for Nordic Men: Amon Amarth’s Representations of Vikings," in which Florian Heesch clearly and in extensive detail describes Amon Amarth as Viking metal. On page 72 (87 in the PDF nav bar) he writes: "The Swedish band Bathory had a large impact on the spread of interest in Norse topics, starting with the album Blood Fire Death (1988). Bathory also used the appropriate Viking imagery. Musically, Bathory where influential on black metal as well as on death metal bands. While receptions of Norse myths where mostly important in black metal, especially the Norwegian black metal of the early 1990s, and the younger pagan metal, bands as the Swedish Unleashed made the topic fit into death metal before Amon Amarth appeared."
The article " Barbarians and Literature: Viking Metal and its Links to Old Norse Mythology" by Imke von Helden also clearly identifies Amon Amarth as Viking metal, and von Helden writes, in her opening paragraph, that "Viking metal is a comparatively young subgenre of heavy metal music. There are difficulties in defining it, because the definition - apart from certain elements like anthem-like choruses - is not based entirely on musical features and overlaps with other metal genres. The music derives from the also Scandinavian-coined genres of black and death metal. It is furthermore closely linked to another subgenre called pagan metal, which deals mainly with Pagan religions and lies in a broader context where not only Old Norse mythology is dealt with, but also Celtic myths and history, fairy tales and other elements of folklore. Traditional instruments like the violin or flute are used more often in pagan than in Viking metal music." von Helden further writes, on page 258 (273 in the PDF navbar), "During the 1990s, Swedish Amon Amarth added a new dimension to the definition of viking metal by means of their death metal style of music." In a previous article, the paper she composed for her presentation at the Heavy Metal Fundamentalisms conference, von Helden writes "Though most Viking metal bands have a black metal background, Viking metal is defined by topics rather than music. That is why death metal bands like Amon Amarth and Unleashed are often included in the league of Viking metal bands." - Page 34, 45 in the PDF navbar.
Those three sources above (technically two - Heesch and von Helden) I think definitively settle the argument.-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 15:40, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
There is a sourced definition of Viking Metal, you are using the 'moving the goalposts' fallacy to adapt the definition to suit your own delusion. You need to prove that AA's music is objectively Viking Metal, not someone who stretches an already established music genre's definition to include a band with no musical connections to that genre, just because of personal incredulity. Its like me changing the definition of Black Metal just because there is a Power Metal band that uses satanic lyrics. Black Metal = "Black Metal and a couple of Power Metal bands", is the same as Viking Metal = "Viking Metal and a couple of Death Metal bands".....???
You see it simply makes no logical sense, nothing any 'source' can say can change logic and objectivity.
You then change the infobox, and then give the edit war warning to someone who changes it back to how it was, where as it is you who is edit warring by adding unstable information... god this page could really do without you.
You are an absolute idiot. TenaciousDio ( talk) 06:13, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
NOTE: For now, as it has proven a consistent source of instability, I have removed the genre field from the infobox entirely. That always seems to be the target for revisions, not the actual article content.-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 16:00, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm not very knowledgeable about this subgenre of heavy metal, but as far as the press go, I remember that last summer I've read a review by Joel McIver in Metal Hammer about their latest album, in which he elaborated that Norwegian mythology was key lyrical subject in Amon Amarth's songs. If I recall correctly, he named the band Viking metal, but I'm not sure if a review on one album can secure a spot in the genre field. The band describe themselves simply as death metal (and/or melodic death metal), which, according to me, should be featured in the opening sentence description.-- Retrohead ( talk) 22:23, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
Why the need to remove something that is undisputed? Everyone agrees that AA are objectively melodic death metal, whether they believe they are also Viking or not. Just because Viking Metal is a disputed and unstable tag doesnt mean you should remove MDM. The opening sentence even describes them as a 'melodic death metal band', having it in the infobox causes no harm.
Lets keep the controversial tags to the genre analysis in the article, but keep the undisputed, objective, absolute genres in the infobox, that way, both genres are recognized, and no one argues.
TenaciousDio (
talk) 05:14, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
Removing Viking Metal is the best course unless a permanent consensus can be reached on that. Melodic Death Metal has nothing to do with the viking metal dispute, it is permanent, it is objective, it is established, it has not caused contention. This page is more accurate and stable with it in the infobox. You cannot remove it just because you dont understand how Amon Amarth are not viking metal, and why viking metal is not worthy of the infobox.
Lets keep the controversial tags to the genre analysis in the article, but keep the undisputed, objective, absolute and established genres in the infobox, that way, both genres are recognized, and no one argues.
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While doing research for an essay I came across an interview with Johann Hegg that I found rather interesting. It's a general interview but in it he mentions that he is actually an atheist. For him the source material that he pulls from at times (in the interview case he is referring to the Edda) is just something philosophically stimulating and interesting to think about. I'm not sure but I kind of feel like that's something that should be included in the bio of a "viking metal" band. I have included the exact bit from the interview I am refering to and a link to the entire thing.
JH - Unfortunately, when I was a kid, they didn’t teach you almost anything about the Viking history and heritage. You didn’t get to read the Edda or the Younger Edda in school. You got to read a few stories just to know that “this is it.” It was just a very small thing, not a big historical thing. That’s how my interest started, reading that in school, and then I started looking into it. My sister was a lot into it, and she’s five years older than me. She, of course, inspired me a little bit, as well. When I was eleven or twelve, I borrowed the Younger Edda at the library in my hometown, a small village. I went to the library and borrowed it and read it, and I thought it was fantastic. When I got a bit older, I went for the Poetic Edda. There were these Danish comic books called Valhalla, which were describing some of these really cool old mythological stories, and I loved reading those. It was a lot of stuff like that, as well.
http://www.norsemyth.org/2010/08/interview-with-johan-hegg-of-amon_12.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by CorySelfInvictus ( talk • contribs) 02:09, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
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The opening paragraphs say they’ve made 11 studio albums, but The Greatest Heathen Army’s page says it’s their twelfth album. SswampyOasis ( talk) 13:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Amon Amarth article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Seems like we're having member term history problems. So let's stop editing that section now and try to work this out the best we could. See Themgoroth's profile at metalstorm.ee; for Amon Amarth it says 1988-1991 and not 1992, therefore it is a contradiction. Also, here is Amon Amarth's page: [1] just for reference. Though I fear this might just be a mirror of wikipedia informaition. Can anything be found out there that remotely shows when they were a member? FireCrystal ( talk) 23:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Amon Amarth is not viking metal, viking metal is a mix of viking themed folk metal and black metal, amon amarth is viking themed melodic death metal, so, they are not death metal, and just because a website says they are, that dosnt mean that they are, theres websites that say slayer is death metal, slayer isnt death metal, if you believed every single site and citedit on wikipedia, than the pages would be cluddered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.116.10.54 ( talk) 04:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Wondering this hasn't been asked so far, but anyway Nico's lastname in the musicbox is "Mehra". However across the discographies an former members the his name is "Kaukinen".
Can someone provide the correct surname (Kaukinen seems a valid lastname, Mehra is some middle name, nickname, etc?) - ideally with some reference.
Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.176.40.110 ( talk) 17:50, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
I see we are still going back and forth over whether or not the genre Viking Metal should be applied to Amon Amarth. I'd like to see some consensus building on this issue rather than just reverting back and forth, because as far as I can tell, no solid consensus has ever been reached on the issue at this talk page. Please remember that Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought, so wikipedians' opinions don't count, only reliable secondary sources count. Thus, the challenge is this: if reliable secondary sources can be produced that directly state Amon Amarth plays Viking Metal, then the genre should be included in the article; but if those sources can be demonstrated to be unreliable sources (following the guidelines established at WP:RS, not our own opinions), then the genre should be excluded from the article. !votes to include or exclude the Viking Metal genre are okay, but please be sure to include your rationale and cite reliable sources, WP policy and editorial guides, etc., because votes don't count in the end; discussion is what matters here. Thank you! Wilhelm Meis ( ☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 18:16, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
First: Welcome back Navnløs! Second: As the Viking metal article describes, the origins of Viking metal did arise primarily from black metal. However, David W. Marshall in Mass Market Medieval: Essays on the Middle Ages in Popular Culture says Viking metal includes symbolism of black and death metal (pg. 65), and cites both the black and death metal scenes in late 1980's Scandinavia as origins of the genre (ps. 62, 63).-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 19:25, 24 June 2013 (UTC) Another point: While the assertion that Viking metal primarily emerged from black metal is supported by reliable sources, it also is complicated by the then highly interchangeable use of labels in the 80's extreme metal scene by media and journalists. Prior to the Norwegian wave in the early 90s the terms thrash, death, black metal, and even speed metal were often used interchangeably and black metal was initially only a lyrical distinction. However, even if we ignore this, Amon Amarth did not even form until 1992, after Viking metal already emerged as a genre. Genres evolve, so it is perfectly reasonable for a band like Amon Amarth to be labeled Viking metal. Emo initially meant a form of post-hardcore, but now is practically interchangeable with pop punk. My point is, Bathory, pioneered the style in the late 80's (ignoring earlier, non-extreme contenders like Heavy Load), so while Amon Amarth formed in '92, the style had already developed, and newer bands like Amon Amarth and Unleashed could be considered a new evolution of the style, taking the lyrical themes of a black metal offshoot and applying these themes to a death metal sound.-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 23:23, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Split - Discography section is becoming long with respect to the remainder of the article and should be split. Thoughts? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 12:26, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
People keep adding viking metal to the genre section. I agree with them being Death Metal and Melodic Death Metal, but viking metal is a totally different genre related to black metal. Eg: bands like Bathory. Amon Amarth's music is nowhere near the style of Bathory or any other true viking metal band.Please provide proper sources. Even Johan Hegg mentioned in this article that they do not consider their music to be viking metal at all. Knightrider abhi ( talk) 04:38, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
You are absolutely correct, unfortunately, some people's mindsets are incapable of accepting such a simple concept.
TenaciousDio (
talk) 06:12, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
As many have stated before, viking metal is a black metal subgenre. Amon Amarth are a death metal band. If you want to add viking metal, yo're going to need sources and consensus. BrainPower3 ( talk) 19:37, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
I recently restored "Viking metal" to the infobox, as that seems to be the consensus that emerged here. Another editor challenged this, and I regret to say that we got into an edit war. I've refrained from editing the page for now, and currently Viking metal is not listed in the infobox. However, I managed to find some sources that should definitively settle the issue once and for all.
In The Metal Void, a publication that came out of the Heavy Metal Fundamentalisms conference, there is an article, "Metal for Nordic Men: Amon Amarth’s Representations of Vikings," in which Florian Heesch clearly and in extensive detail describes Amon Amarth as Viking metal. On page 72 (87 in the PDF nav bar) he writes: "The Swedish band Bathory had a large impact on the spread of interest in Norse topics, starting with the album Blood Fire Death (1988). Bathory also used the appropriate Viking imagery. Musically, Bathory where influential on black metal as well as on death metal bands. While receptions of Norse myths where mostly important in black metal, especially the Norwegian black metal of the early 1990s, and the younger pagan metal, bands as the Swedish Unleashed made the topic fit into death metal before Amon Amarth appeared."
The article " Barbarians and Literature: Viking Metal and its Links to Old Norse Mythology" by Imke von Helden also clearly identifies Amon Amarth as Viking metal, and von Helden writes, in her opening paragraph, that "Viking metal is a comparatively young subgenre of heavy metal music. There are difficulties in defining it, because the definition - apart from certain elements like anthem-like choruses - is not based entirely on musical features and overlaps with other metal genres. The music derives from the also Scandinavian-coined genres of black and death metal. It is furthermore closely linked to another subgenre called pagan metal, which deals mainly with Pagan religions and lies in a broader context where not only Old Norse mythology is dealt with, but also Celtic myths and history, fairy tales and other elements of folklore. Traditional instruments like the violin or flute are used more often in pagan than in Viking metal music." von Helden further writes, on page 258 (273 in the PDF navbar), "During the 1990s, Swedish Amon Amarth added a new dimension to the definition of viking metal by means of their death metal style of music." In a previous article, the paper she composed for her presentation at the Heavy Metal Fundamentalisms conference, von Helden writes "Though most Viking metal bands have a black metal background, Viking metal is defined by topics rather than music. That is why death metal bands like Amon Amarth and Unleashed are often included in the league of Viking metal bands." - Page 34, 45 in the PDF navbar.
Those three sources above (technically two - Heesch and von Helden) I think definitively settle the argument.-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 15:40, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
There is a sourced definition of Viking Metal, you are using the 'moving the goalposts' fallacy to adapt the definition to suit your own delusion. You need to prove that AA's music is objectively Viking Metal, not someone who stretches an already established music genre's definition to include a band with no musical connections to that genre, just because of personal incredulity. Its like me changing the definition of Black Metal just because there is a Power Metal band that uses satanic lyrics. Black Metal = "Black Metal and a couple of Power Metal bands", is the same as Viking Metal = "Viking Metal and a couple of Death Metal bands".....???
You see it simply makes no logical sense, nothing any 'source' can say can change logic and objectivity.
You then change the infobox, and then give the edit war warning to someone who changes it back to how it was, where as it is you who is edit warring by adding unstable information... god this page could really do without you.
You are an absolute idiot. TenaciousDio ( talk) 06:13, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
NOTE: For now, as it has proven a consistent source of instability, I have removed the genre field from the infobox entirely. That always seems to be the target for revisions, not the actual article content.-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 16:00, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm not very knowledgeable about this subgenre of heavy metal, but as far as the press go, I remember that last summer I've read a review by Joel McIver in Metal Hammer about their latest album, in which he elaborated that Norwegian mythology was key lyrical subject in Amon Amarth's songs. If I recall correctly, he named the band Viking metal, but I'm not sure if a review on one album can secure a spot in the genre field. The band describe themselves simply as death metal (and/or melodic death metal), which, according to me, should be featured in the opening sentence description.-- Retrohead ( talk) 22:23, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
Why the need to remove something that is undisputed? Everyone agrees that AA are objectively melodic death metal, whether they believe they are also Viking or not. Just because Viking Metal is a disputed and unstable tag doesnt mean you should remove MDM. The opening sentence even describes them as a 'melodic death metal band', having it in the infobox causes no harm.
Lets keep the controversial tags to the genre analysis in the article, but keep the undisputed, objective, absolute genres in the infobox, that way, both genres are recognized, and no one argues.
TenaciousDio (
talk) 05:14, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
Removing Viking Metal is the best course unless a permanent consensus can be reached on that. Melodic Death Metal has nothing to do with the viking metal dispute, it is permanent, it is objective, it is established, it has not caused contention. This page is more accurate and stable with it in the infobox. You cannot remove it just because you dont understand how Amon Amarth are not viking metal, and why viking metal is not worthy of the infobox.
Lets keep the controversial tags to the genre analysis in the article, but keep the undisputed, objective, absolute and established genres in the infobox, that way, both genres are recognized, and no one argues.
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While doing research for an essay I came across an interview with Johann Hegg that I found rather interesting. It's a general interview but in it he mentions that he is actually an atheist. For him the source material that he pulls from at times (in the interview case he is referring to the Edda) is just something philosophically stimulating and interesting to think about. I'm not sure but I kind of feel like that's something that should be included in the bio of a "viking metal" band. I have included the exact bit from the interview I am refering to and a link to the entire thing.
JH - Unfortunately, when I was a kid, they didn’t teach you almost anything about the Viking history and heritage. You didn’t get to read the Edda or the Younger Edda in school. You got to read a few stories just to know that “this is it.” It was just a very small thing, not a big historical thing. That’s how my interest started, reading that in school, and then I started looking into it. My sister was a lot into it, and she’s five years older than me. She, of course, inspired me a little bit, as well. When I was eleven or twelve, I borrowed the Younger Edda at the library in my hometown, a small village. I went to the library and borrowed it and read it, and I thought it was fantastic. When I got a bit older, I went for the Poetic Edda. There were these Danish comic books called Valhalla, which were describing some of these really cool old mythological stories, and I loved reading those. It was a lot of stuff like that, as well.
http://www.norsemyth.org/2010/08/interview-with-johan-hegg-of-amon_12.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by CorySelfInvictus ( talk • contribs) 02:09, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
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The opening paragraphs say they’ve made 11 studio albums, but The Greatest Heathen Army’s page says it’s their twelfth album. SswampyOasis ( talk) 13:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)