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Conversion from list to essay format would improve this article. I'd suggest including a description of foods that are native to the Americas and popular in the United States but rare or uncommon elsewhere, such as corn on the cob. I'd like to see subsections on regional styles such as Cajun, Tex-Mex, and Hawaiian. A section on national innovations and their historic context would also be appropriate, such as cocktails and prohibition. Durova 10:47, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
In addition, some basic research would be nice. Originally, for example, the article mentioned that Chop Suey was from China when the truth it that it was invented in San Francisco. You know, the city in California? In the United States? A real list of all the amazing food items that were invented in this country (baked alaska, potato chips, Buffalo wings, lobster newberg, beef on wick... the list goes on and on) plus a list of food that, although originating elsewhere was perfected and improved in the United States (hambergers, pizza, ice cream, and so on) would be a nice start.
Heck, a list of the items created at Delmonico's in New York City when Charles Ranhofer was its executive chef would be a good start.
My Hamburger picture show a French hamburger. The packaging from a French fast-food chain of restaurants is easily identifiable (at least for French people). Can someo US Wikipedian take is digicam to a fast-food restaurant to shoot a "real American burger" ? ;-) Ericd 21:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree. It was rather obvious that this hamburger is the "Giant" from the Quick fast-food outlet which is Franco-Belgian. I feel that a more "American" burger picture should be put.
I'm glad others are elaborating this article. However, I worry about uses of words like "perfected" when describing how a dish changes over time. Dishes may change, but there's no perfection in cooking, any more than any art.
Also, to say "most American Cuisine is rustic rather than elaborate (when compared to French Cuisine, for example" is simply silly; French cuisine is famous for the regional, rustic styles. Normandy style, Provencal style, etc. To imply that all French cooking is haute cuisine is highly misleading. That would be like saying most Americans eat the the same dishes as those served in the Drake and the Waldorf Astoria. There is fancy American cooking, and there is fancy French cooking.
While there certainly are uniquely American foods, we need to be careful about identifying them. Chowder, for example, is French (the word is derived from the French for "hot" and similar dishes exist in Brittany even today. While the name "chowder" may be American English, the dish itself certainly has far older roots [1]. Likewise, candy bars evolved independenly all around the world in different guises. From comfits in Tudor England to halva in the Mid East and halwa in India, the basic portable, sugary snack is pretty well ubiquitous. Certain brands and flavours may be very American, but there are unique French and British and other candies. (The very word candy comes from an Ancient Indian - Sanskrit - word "khaṇḍa", meaning chunks of sugar.)
Steering a neutral point of view between the the historically accurate and the pejorative criticism is something which needs to be done. Outside of the US, the perception of American food is highly stereotyped, in perhaps the same way as Americans view French or British cooking. Why is this? Why is American cuisine not seen as one of the world's great cuisines in the same way as (broadly) French, Indian, or Chinese?
Cheers,
Neale
Neale Monks 20:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
So America doesn't have variations of Chowder that are uniquely American? Also because Candy is made in Britain and the word comes from an old Indian word, somehow America doesn't have any types of Candy that are indigenous to the Nation? Pffft.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.246.204 ( talk) 06:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
American cuisine exists: look how many cookbooks there are covering the subject, and how many restaurants around the world purport to sell the stuff. Whether it's a cuisine as sophisticated, technically demanding, or simply as tasty, as some of the others are all good questions for chefs and critics to discuss. But to deny the value of this article out of hand is a bit extreme. Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 23:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
SO? Argentinian cuisine is mostly french, italian, spanish and german too. But we have adopted many of them and the ones consumed in the same way are still Argentinian food even when is also french, italian or whatever.
American have a cuisine! what about peanut butter, popcorn, hamburgers???? and the rest of the foods adopted from other countries, you don't eat Italian pizza in the same way that italian-american ancestors in Italy as we don't eat it in the same way either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.232.226.252 ( talk • contribs) 20:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Pizza is an italian thing no matter how you eat it or make it, apple pie is a dutch/english thing, american cuisine its made up of other countries cousine.- Rafax 14:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Apple pie is NOT derived from a European food, it IS a European food. In the Canterbury Tales apple pie is mentioned, and I doubt Chaucer was American. Ninington 10:59, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
A nation's cuisine is not defined by who invented what or where something descended from. It's defined by what Americans eat. This article explores regional variations and ethnic cuisine of the United States. Also, American pizza is way different than Italian varieties. I would call American Pizza a separate dish on its own. The article on the Hamburger clearly indicates its American roots.
European Nations don't have any indigenous cuisine by their own logic of stating that America doesn't have unique cuisine. Most dishes come from a long line of dishes dating back to this or that region of the world. Just quit being so damn Nationalist about food. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.246.204 ( talk) 06:32, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
This article is almost all POV or on regional cookery in the United States. It does not define one cuisine of the United State which the title of this article denotes. Cuisine of the United States denotes a National Cuisine. The article should be retitled Regional Cuisines of the United States which most of this article fits into and the article is a redirect from. Christopher Tanner, CCC 05:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)tanner-christopher
It seems obvious that a great deal of the debate on this article is due to the fact that there is no such thing as "American" cuisine. While all the cuisines of the world are in flux, there are styles, dishes, flavors that are distinctly associated with other cuisines. I think the responsible thing to do is remove the article, or refine and rename it as regional/historical cuisines of the U.S. The talented chefs, critics and gourmands of the country need not worry; just because there is no classical American cuisines does not mean there is no fine cooking. While there is no clear "cuisine," there is an American gastronomy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.108.201.243 ( talk) 21:46, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
The article is just.. bad. First, it is far longer than it should be. The historic background should be removed entirely to appropriate articles for those interested in Native American and Colonial American cooking. Modern American cooking, on the other hand, should be explained in some detail, and, yes, fast food should be brought up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.155.110.196 ( talk) 00:28, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Right on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.47.124.97 ( talk) 13:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Is there a reason the article uses the lable "American Indian" instead of "Native American". Is it ever correct to use the former? Azuefeldt ( talk) 13:40, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Odd that the word "vegetable" does not show up in this article anywhere, much less "vegetarian"... If I'm not mistaken, Americans are far more likely to be vegetarians than nearly any other national people. Surely this deserves some mention.
This article has always suffered from a large amount of original research and will for sometime until secondary resources are written on the topic which sadly there are pretty much none because it is such a controversial topic. I have removed much of the POV wording and added tags for needed citations to many of the comments on this article and I re headed the article to fit along the conventions of some of the better cuisine articles on Wikipedia, namely French cuisine and Italian cuisine. Please refrain fro writing new POV material in the article without references as they are against Wikipedia policies of WP:NPOV and Wikipedia:No original research.-- Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 14:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Good job. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.37.228.161 ( talk) 19:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I added in a section on ethnic and immigrant influences. While this seems to be mentioned "between the lines" of the text of the original article, I thought that it needed to be fleshed out more and also made to cross reference with what is happening on other wikipedia topics. I don't think you can truly understand American cusine without understanding the ethnic, race, immigrant and socially constructed history of the nation. What is more, I think this add a lot more "flavor" to the article, instead of assuming that American cuisine is nothing more than "mass culture" dervived from the colonial states and national expansion, etc. I think that the links to every hyphenated cuisine, such as Italian-American cuisine, Mexican-American cuisine, American Chinese cuisine and even Creole and Soul Food, contribute to this idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calitalia ( talk • contribs) 22:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
References
I read Chef Tanner's comments above (5 FEB 2008) and on a personal message (talk); whereas, some of it sounds reasonable, but some of it seems defensive, if not emotional.
Chef, I am guessing that you have put a lot of work on this and you don't appreciate others "messing" with your ideas or point of view. If that's the case, I sympathize with your toil, but at the same time I cannot whole heartedly agree with you. Certainly, I can work to provide more citations, as I am sure others would appreciate that, too. Although I do not think you can contest, nor ignore, the scores of wikipedia topics which are mentioned in this section and as well as on other wikipedia pages; and of which are either "verifiable" or "not"; but, nonetheless, they reflect and constitute so many contributions and so many people therein that you simply cannot dismiss them as being "not relevant."
I cannot ultimately confirm your actual intentions, but I do have questions which I think should be asked and discussed. I am not just responding to your recent critique, but about the entire article to which I have not edited, but only inserted a “new” section. For one small contribution, I am surprised that I got such a reaction. Anyway, Here are some of my concerns:
Please don't take this writng as an attack, but as a serious and passionate dialog (if not debate) on what I think are some very important subjects. 69.109.221.76 ( talk) 10:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)Calitalia
While trying to re-analyze the article, I found it difficult and not very user-friendly. After some toil, I figured out some patterns. I therefore created "bold type" leaders into certain paragraphs, as well as use of some sub-paragraph bullet points. I think it makes the article read much easier, as well as more evident as to how it actually functions. Before that, many of the paragraphs and sentences just ran together in a hodgepodge. For example, paragraphs listing meats, vegetable, fruits, seafood, etc.-- as well as certain cooking practices-- were all unrecognizable in a long string of sentences. Nor could you tell paragraph from others, for that matter, as they seem to run on off the topic sometimes and at too long of a lenghth. They lost focus or clear purpose. Anyway, I am hoping this will also allow analysis for furher development and expansion. You should be able to easily read to see what is there and what can be added and in what context and what section of thought and so on. Calitalia ( talk) 11:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)calitalia
I was asked by Christopher to comment the discussion here, and my recommendation is that the useful aspects of "Ethnic and immigrant influence" be integrated with the section which I have renamed "History" and "Regional cuisines". How, when and where a cuisine has been influenced by outside forces is certainly good information in a cuisine article, but I don't think having a dedicated section for that purpose is a good idea. The entire notion is also kinda plagued by the artificial and completely gratuitous division of "ethnic" and "immigrant" culture. "Ethnic" in an encyclopedic sense refers to cultures and societies of any kind, not just "noble savages" (the huge variety of peoples that are defined as Native American) and various creole groups (Latin Americans and the descendants of imported African slaves).
Without going too much into the entangled discussion above, I'd like to stress that the modus operandi defined by the Wikipedia community is pretty clear on how to write articles: Reliable sources are required when explaining contentious, controversial or complicated facts. If one follows these guidelines it's rather difficult to "quote any source to make any point". I would also like to express my strong disbelief in the general statements about how the chronology of influences on American cuisine (ei an aspect of American culture) has been lost in the mists of time. This discussion should be about the results of research in cultural history and the stance of scholars, not long-winded debates about the ethnic origins of individual Wikipedians or personal opinions about frustration with cultural hegemony.
In short, more fact discussion and fewer statements of principles, please.
Peter Isotalo 08:42, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
The comment about the "mists of time" is a retort to this comment (made by you under an IP-account):
I don't know the exact scholarly situation is when it comes to the influence of
"Ethnic" has no anthropological or historical connotation related to any specific cultures. Neither Latin Americans nor the descendants of imported African slaves are more "ethnic" than British and French colonists, unlike what you argue in this edit summary. They are all immigrants in one way or another. When it comes to the use of the word "ethnic" in the food industry, it is merely a euphemism to describe anything that is deemed exotic enough to Western culture (the same goes for music or fashion for that matter). If all foreign influences on American culture, according to you even that of Native Americans, are "ethnic", then what isn't? Peter Isotalo 19:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed that much of this ongoing discussion seems to assume that all this article deals with "historic" fact, excluding contemporary trends, surveys and reports to the basis. Did it ever occur to you that I'm not trying to get caught up in the debate of historiography? The influences of a cuisine do not necessarily have to be profoundly historic, but mabye simply a contemporary trend or phenomenon. Sure, they may have roots, but that is beside my point. I think many of today's Americans and many of the nations' chefs are not so much looking at their cuisine as an "historic" appreciation, as much as they are looking at it as a unique phenomenon with the pleasure of a diverse palate that exemplifies today's America. Much of our social and political influences also embody that idea. Hence, please see some of the more "contemporary" statistics and contributions added into the section under "ethnic and immigrant influences." All said, don't get me wrong, because I do appreciate history and I think it has its place. But, maybe that's beside the point. Calitalia ( talk) 12:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)Calitalia
I'm not too sure what happened in the last couple of revisions, but I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to use a talk page as a scratchpad for wholesale article revisions. Here is the last revision, in case anyone wants to move it to a separate page. Haikupoet ( talk) 07:00, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I was so disappointed to see that the biggest part of Americana was left out! Fast Food is an integral part of American society, whether it be coming home from soccer practice with the kids, or a dinner out with the wife. Fast Food is so HUGE here in America and it should be added into this article. Add hyperlinks to articles on Taco Bell, Burger King, McDonalds. Come on, it is American Cuisine, to go!
-- DiamondElusive ( talk) 14:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
No kidding. You've actually seen more fast food in the entire United States than in london. What an astute observation. lol Al PA
74.74.102.247 ( talk) 16:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_April_12#Seasonal_cuisine. Badagnani ( talk) 22:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
OK. What's the deal with this list? I mean, really, who came up with some of these. Sandra Lee??????? She's not even a chef--celebrity cooking show host, sure, but not the title of chef. The list seems to lack structure or purpose, let alone organization. There's no real discussion of the difference between celebrity chefs, cooking personalities in popular culture, and influential chefs themselves. Emeril is listed as a chef, Bobby Flay is listed as celebrity chef. Isn't this list a bit capricious and arbitrary?? I'm not against subjective topics, but let's atleast handle it with a bit more clarity and consistency and better explain choices, shall we. 74.74.102.247 ( talk) 16:38, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
The article starts off by saying "The cuisine of the United States is a style of food preparation derived from the United States." but I am not sure it should be referred to as a single style. There are so many different regional and cultural styles that it might be better to say something like "The cuisine of the United States consists of the styles of food preparation derived from the United States". I am not sure that is the best way to say it but I think it would be good to reflect the diversity of styles right from the start. I am a bit wary about jumping in and changing the first sentence as it can affect the tone of the whole article. What does everybody think? Is this a good idea? -- DanielRigal ( talk) 03:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I tagged the link in this article to tumbleweed with {{ dn}} because "tumbleweed" can refer to any one of several plants, some of which are not edible. See Tumbleweed (disambiguation). --
I happened to look at the notes & cites in this article and noticed some problems and some wikitext citation style inconsistencies. Barring objection, I'll do some work on regularizing the style and marking the problems. See, for example, Notes 1 & 2 here. Comments? Objections? -- Boracay Bill ( talk) 01:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I've completed an editing pass through this article editing the refs and cites as proposed above. I ended up tagging just one broken cite, (Opler 2001). -- Boracay Bill ( talk) 21:45, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Can someone here take a look at Cuisine of Allentown, Pennsylvania. I would not strike me as being particularly notable topic, but I may be wrong so don't want to XfD it myself. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid ( coṁrá) 15:11, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
"...when the American Indians had a rich and diverse cooking style for an equally diverse amount of ingredients"
I'm confused by this statement. What does it mean by "equally diverse amount of ingredients"? How can an amount be diverse? Is it suggesting that the cuisines of the American Indians were very diverse, and that they used many different kinds of foods in these cuisines? Or is it making some comparison to post-colonial cuisines in America? I wanted to try to make this sentence less ambiguous, but now I'm completely confused as to what meaning it has. It seems like the opening sentences in this article could be a lot clearer and more precise. Jimjamjak ( talk) 14:16, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
The very end of Section 1.3 (20th century - 21st century) mentions "Trendy food items in the 2000s and 2010s (albeit with long traditions) include cupcakes, macaroons, and meatballs.[28]" I don't think macaroons was meant here; they haven't been nearly as possible as the similarly spelled macaron. (The citation was a citation to an article on the popularity of meatballs.) I suggest an edit in that direction. Thoughts?
Cinderlei ( talk) 04:38, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
Could we get a definition of "New American cuisine" added to this page?
For some reason "New American cuisine" links back to this article, and yet it's not defined here. As far as I can find, the term is not defined anywhere on Wikipedia.
The section of this article titled "Ethnic and immigrant influence" talks about Chez Panisse, Wolfgang Puck, etc. and discusses California Cuisine. Seems like New American cuisine should be discussed there as well. Both the articles on California Cuisine and the Culinary Revolution article are linked to, and both of those refer to New American cuisine but don't define it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.139.129 ( talk) 04:00, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
In addition, a Wikipedia search for "New American cuisine" redirects to this page instead of to the article with that exact title. iowaboy277 ( talk) 02:09, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
You could shorten and make this article concise by admitting that the whole point to "American" food is that it is MANUFACTURED. Through the history of United States, to what is available at the present vernacular food vendors, the goal was / is to achieve the industrial version of any little local or ethnic preparation contrivance. 66.119.193.155 ( talk) 14:10, 22 April 2014 (UTC)Donovan Hellinger
That's selective, slanted and absurd: the U.S. cuisine is one of the best and most varied in the world. - Zorobabele — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.50.46.128 ( talk) 18:26, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
The lead may contain improper synthesis. There are claims made there like "The cuisine of the United States reflects its history" and this might be a logical conclusion from sourced info in the body, but the references aren't in the lead. That's why there may be synthesis here. The body does have sourced content saying things like that American cuisine was influenced by the Native Americans, colonists bringing their cuisine from England, food becoming more industrialized during the French Revolution, and etc but no sources actually saying that American cuisine was influenced by its history. -- Mr. Guye ( talk) 21:55, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
That's a rather nitpicky way of looking at it. The fact of the matter is that's America as a nation was built on the backs of immigrants and has experienced no less than three great waves of immigration, two major ones from Europe and Africa, and the most recent one from Asia and Latin America. That would be general knowledge well known to the greater world. It does not require explanation. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Shadowkittie5460 (
talk •
contribs)
13:28, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
The section for Mid-Atlantic includes a paragraph that seems mostly "point of view (POV) and not verified by the citations made therein. It reads as follows:
References
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A Taste of Power: Food and American Identities by Katharina Vester, 2015, University of California Press Jodi.a.schneider ( talk) 01:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Conversion from list to essay format would improve this article. I'd suggest including a description of foods that are native to the Americas and popular in the United States but rare or uncommon elsewhere, such as corn on the cob. I'd like to see subsections on regional styles such as Cajun, Tex-Mex, and Hawaiian. A section on national innovations and their historic context would also be appropriate, such as cocktails and prohibition. Durova 10:47, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
In addition, some basic research would be nice. Originally, for example, the article mentioned that Chop Suey was from China when the truth it that it was invented in San Francisco. You know, the city in California? In the United States? A real list of all the amazing food items that were invented in this country (baked alaska, potato chips, Buffalo wings, lobster newberg, beef on wick... the list goes on and on) plus a list of food that, although originating elsewhere was perfected and improved in the United States (hambergers, pizza, ice cream, and so on) would be a nice start.
Heck, a list of the items created at Delmonico's in New York City when Charles Ranhofer was its executive chef would be a good start.
My Hamburger picture show a French hamburger. The packaging from a French fast-food chain of restaurants is easily identifiable (at least for French people). Can someo US Wikipedian take is digicam to a fast-food restaurant to shoot a "real American burger" ? ;-) Ericd 21:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree. It was rather obvious that this hamburger is the "Giant" from the Quick fast-food outlet which is Franco-Belgian. I feel that a more "American" burger picture should be put.
I'm glad others are elaborating this article. However, I worry about uses of words like "perfected" when describing how a dish changes over time. Dishes may change, but there's no perfection in cooking, any more than any art.
Also, to say "most American Cuisine is rustic rather than elaborate (when compared to French Cuisine, for example" is simply silly; French cuisine is famous for the regional, rustic styles. Normandy style, Provencal style, etc. To imply that all French cooking is haute cuisine is highly misleading. That would be like saying most Americans eat the the same dishes as those served in the Drake and the Waldorf Astoria. There is fancy American cooking, and there is fancy French cooking.
While there certainly are uniquely American foods, we need to be careful about identifying them. Chowder, for example, is French (the word is derived from the French for "hot" and similar dishes exist in Brittany even today. While the name "chowder" may be American English, the dish itself certainly has far older roots [1]. Likewise, candy bars evolved independenly all around the world in different guises. From comfits in Tudor England to halva in the Mid East and halwa in India, the basic portable, sugary snack is pretty well ubiquitous. Certain brands and flavours may be very American, but there are unique French and British and other candies. (The very word candy comes from an Ancient Indian - Sanskrit - word "khaṇḍa", meaning chunks of sugar.)
Steering a neutral point of view between the the historically accurate and the pejorative criticism is something which needs to be done. Outside of the US, the perception of American food is highly stereotyped, in perhaps the same way as Americans view French or British cooking. Why is this? Why is American cuisine not seen as one of the world's great cuisines in the same way as (broadly) French, Indian, or Chinese?
Cheers,
Neale
Neale Monks 20:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
So America doesn't have variations of Chowder that are uniquely American? Also because Candy is made in Britain and the word comes from an old Indian word, somehow America doesn't have any types of Candy that are indigenous to the Nation? Pffft.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.246.204 ( talk) 06:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
American cuisine exists: look how many cookbooks there are covering the subject, and how many restaurants around the world purport to sell the stuff. Whether it's a cuisine as sophisticated, technically demanding, or simply as tasty, as some of the others are all good questions for chefs and critics to discuss. But to deny the value of this article out of hand is a bit extreme. Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 23:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
SO? Argentinian cuisine is mostly french, italian, spanish and german too. But we have adopted many of them and the ones consumed in the same way are still Argentinian food even when is also french, italian or whatever.
American have a cuisine! what about peanut butter, popcorn, hamburgers???? and the rest of the foods adopted from other countries, you don't eat Italian pizza in the same way that italian-american ancestors in Italy as we don't eat it in the same way either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.232.226.252 ( talk • contribs) 20:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Pizza is an italian thing no matter how you eat it or make it, apple pie is a dutch/english thing, american cuisine its made up of other countries cousine.- Rafax 14:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Apple pie is NOT derived from a European food, it IS a European food. In the Canterbury Tales apple pie is mentioned, and I doubt Chaucer was American. Ninington 10:59, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
A nation's cuisine is not defined by who invented what or where something descended from. It's defined by what Americans eat. This article explores regional variations and ethnic cuisine of the United States. Also, American pizza is way different than Italian varieties. I would call American Pizza a separate dish on its own. The article on the Hamburger clearly indicates its American roots.
European Nations don't have any indigenous cuisine by their own logic of stating that America doesn't have unique cuisine. Most dishes come from a long line of dishes dating back to this or that region of the world. Just quit being so damn Nationalist about food. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.246.204 ( talk) 06:32, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
This article is almost all POV or on regional cookery in the United States. It does not define one cuisine of the United State which the title of this article denotes. Cuisine of the United States denotes a National Cuisine. The article should be retitled Regional Cuisines of the United States which most of this article fits into and the article is a redirect from. Christopher Tanner, CCC 05:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)tanner-christopher
It seems obvious that a great deal of the debate on this article is due to the fact that there is no such thing as "American" cuisine. While all the cuisines of the world are in flux, there are styles, dishes, flavors that are distinctly associated with other cuisines. I think the responsible thing to do is remove the article, or refine and rename it as regional/historical cuisines of the U.S. The talented chefs, critics and gourmands of the country need not worry; just because there is no classical American cuisines does not mean there is no fine cooking. While there is no clear "cuisine," there is an American gastronomy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.108.201.243 ( talk) 21:46, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
The article is just.. bad. First, it is far longer than it should be. The historic background should be removed entirely to appropriate articles for those interested in Native American and Colonial American cooking. Modern American cooking, on the other hand, should be explained in some detail, and, yes, fast food should be brought up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.155.110.196 ( talk) 00:28, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Right on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.47.124.97 ( talk) 13:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Is there a reason the article uses the lable "American Indian" instead of "Native American". Is it ever correct to use the former? Azuefeldt ( talk) 13:40, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Odd that the word "vegetable" does not show up in this article anywhere, much less "vegetarian"... If I'm not mistaken, Americans are far more likely to be vegetarians than nearly any other national people. Surely this deserves some mention.
This article has always suffered from a large amount of original research and will for sometime until secondary resources are written on the topic which sadly there are pretty much none because it is such a controversial topic. I have removed much of the POV wording and added tags for needed citations to many of the comments on this article and I re headed the article to fit along the conventions of some of the better cuisine articles on Wikipedia, namely French cuisine and Italian cuisine. Please refrain fro writing new POV material in the article without references as they are against Wikipedia policies of WP:NPOV and Wikipedia:No original research.-- Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 14:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Good job. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.37.228.161 ( talk) 19:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I added in a section on ethnic and immigrant influences. While this seems to be mentioned "between the lines" of the text of the original article, I thought that it needed to be fleshed out more and also made to cross reference with what is happening on other wikipedia topics. I don't think you can truly understand American cusine without understanding the ethnic, race, immigrant and socially constructed history of the nation. What is more, I think this add a lot more "flavor" to the article, instead of assuming that American cuisine is nothing more than "mass culture" dervived from the colonial states and national expansion, etc. I think that the links to every hyphenated cuisine, such as Italian-American cuisine, Mexican-American cuisine, American Chinese cuisine and even Creole and Soul Food, contribute to this idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calitalia ( talk • contribs) 22:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
References
I read Chef Tanner's comments above (5 FEB 2008) and on a personal message (talk); whereas, some of it sounds reasonable, but some of it seems defensive, if not emotional.
Chef, I am guessing that you have put a lot of work on this and you don't appreciate others "messing" with your ideas or point of view. If that's the case, I sympathize with your toil, but at the same time I cannot whole heartedly agree with you. Certainly, I can work to provide more citations, as I am sure others would appreciate that, too. Although I do not think you can contest, nor ignore, the scores of wikipedia topics which are mentioned in this section and as well as on other wikipedia pages; and of which are either "verifiable" or "not"; but, nonetheless, they reflect and constitute so many contributions and so many people therein that you simply cannot dismiss them as being "not relevant."
I cannot ultimately confirm your actual intentions, but I do have questions which I think should be asked and discussed. I am not just responding to your recent critique, but about the entire article to which I have not edited, but only inserted a “new” section. For one small contribution, I am surprised that I got such a reaction. Anyway, Here are some of my concerns:
Please don't take this writng as an attack, but as a serious and passionate dialog (if not debate) on what I think are some very important subjects. 69.109.221.76 ( talk) 10:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)Calitalia
While trying to re-analyze the article, I found it difficult and not very user-friendly. After some toil, I figured out some patterns. I therefore created "bold type" leaders into certain paragraphs, as well as use of some sub-paragraph bullet points. I think it makes the article read much easier, as well as more evident as to how it actually functions. Before that, many of the paragraphs and sentences just ran together in a hodgepodge. For example, paragraphs listing meats, vegetable, fruits, seafood, etc.-- as well as certain cooking practices-- were all unrecognizable in a long string of sentences. Nor could you tell paragraph from others, for that matter, as they seem to run on off the topic sometimes and at too long of a lenghth. They lost focus or clear purpose. Anyway, I am hoping this will also allow analysis for furher development and expansion. You should be able to easily read to see what is there and what can be added and in what context and what section of thought and so on. Calitalia ( talk) 11:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)calitalia
I was asked by Christopher to comment the discussion here, and my recommendation is that the useful aspects of "Ethnic and immigrant influence" be integrated with the section which I have renamed "History" and "Regional cuisines". How, when and where a cuisine has been influenced by outside forces is certainly good information in a cuisine article, but I don't think having a dedicated section for that purpose is a good idea. The entire notion is also kinda plagued by the artificial and completely gratuitous division of "ethnic" and "immigrant" culture. "Ethnic" in an encyclopedic sense refers to cultures and societies of any kind, not just "noble savages" (the huge variety of peoples that are defined as Native American) and various creole groups (Latin Americans and the descendants of imported African slaves).
Without going too much into the entangled discussion above, I'd like to stress that the modus operandi defined by the Wikipedia community is pretty clear on how to write articles: Reliable sources are required when explaining contentious, controversial or complicated facts. If one follows these guidelines it's rather difficult to "quote any source to make any point". I would also like to express my strong disbelief in the general statements about how the chronology of influences on American cuisine (ei an aspect of American culture) has been lost in the mists of time. This discussion should be about the results of research in cultural history and the stance of scholars, not long-winded debates about the ethnic origins of individual Wikipedians or personal opinions about frustration with cultural hegemony.
In short, more fact discussion and fewer statements of principles, please.
Peter Isotalo 08:42, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
The comment about the "mists of time" is a retort to this comment (made by you under an IP-account):
I don't know the exact scholarly situation is when it comes to the influence of
"Ethnic" has no anthropological or historical connotation related to any specific cultures. Neither Latin Americans nor the descendants of imported African slaves are more "ethnic" than British and French colonists, unlike what you argue in this edit summary. They are all immigrants in one way or another. When it comes to the use of the word "ethnic" in the food industry, it is merely a euphemism to describe anything that is deemed exotic enough to Western culture (the same goes for music or fashion for that matter). If all foreign influences on American culture, according to you even that of Native Americans, are "ethnic", then what isn't? Peter Isotalo 19:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed that much of this ongoing discussion seems to assume that all this article deals with "historic" fact, excluding contemporary trends, surveys and reports to the basis. Did it ever occur to you that I'm not trying to get caught up in the debate of historiography? The influences of a cuisine do not necessarily have to be profoundly historic, but mabye simply a contemporary trend or phenomenon. Sure, they may have roots, but that is beside my point. I think many of today's Americans and many of the nations' chefs are not so much looking at their cuisine as an "historic" appreciation, as much as they are looking at it as a unique phenomenon with the pleasure of a diverse palate that exemplifies today's America. Much of our social and political influences also embody that idea. Hence, please see some of the more "contemporary" statistics and contributions added into the section under "ethnic and immigrant influences." All said, don't get me wrong, because I do appreciate history and I think it has its place. But, maybe that's beside the point. Calitalia ( talk) 12:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)Calitalia
I'm not too sure what happened in the last couple of revisions, but I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to use a talk page as a scratchpad for wholesale article revisions. Here is the last revision, in case anyone wants to move it to a separate page. Haikupoet ( talk) 07:00, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I was so disappointed to see that the biggest part of Americana was left out! Fast Food is an integral part of American society, whether it be coming home from soccer practice with the kids, or a dinner out with the wife. Fast Food is so HUGE here in America and it should be added into this article. Add hyperlinks to articles on Taco Bell, Burger King, McDonalds. Come on, it is American Cuisine, to go!
-- DiamondElusive ( talk) 14:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
No kidding. You've actually seen more fast food in the entire United States than in london. What an astute observation. lol Al PA
74.74.102.247 ( talk) 16:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_April_12#Seasonal_cuisine. Badagnani ( talk) 22:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
OK. What's the deal with this list? I mean, really, who came up with some of these. Sandra Lee??????? She's not even a chef--celebrity cooking show host, sure, but not the title of chef. The list seems to lack structure or purpose, let alone organization. There's no real discussion of the difference between celebrity chefs, cooking personalities in popular culture, and influential chefs themselves. Emeril is listed as a chef, Bobby Flay is listed as celebrity chef. Isn't this list a bit capricious and arbitrary?? I'm not against subjective topics, but let's atleast handle it with a bit more clarity and consistency and better explain choices, shall we. 74.74.102.247 ( talk) 16:38, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
The article starts off by saying "The cuisine of the United States is a style of food preparation derived from the United States." but I am not sure it should be referred to as a single style. There are so many different regional and cultural styles that it might be better to say something like "The cuisine of the United States consists of the styles of food preparation derived from the United States". I am not sure that is the best way to say it but I think it would be good to reflect the diversity of styles right from the start. I am a bit wary about jumping in and changing the first sentence as it can affect the tone of the whole article. What does everybody think? Is this a good idea? -- DanielRigal ( talk) 03:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I tagged the link in this article to tumbleweed with {{ dn}} because "tumbleweed" can refer to any one of several plants, some of which are not edible. See Tumbleweed (disambiguation). --
I happened to look at the notes & cites in this article and noticed some problems and some wikitext citation style inconsistencies. Barring objection, I'll do some work on regularizing the style and marking the problems. See, for example, Notes 1 & 2 here. Comments? Objections? -- Boracay Bill ( talk) 01:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I've completed an editing pass through this article editing the refs and cites as proposed above. I ended up tagging just one broken cite, (Opler 2001). -- Boracay Bill ( talk) 21:45, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Can someone here take a look at Cuisine of Allentown, Pennsylvania. I would not strike me as being particularly notable topic, but I may be wrong so don't want to XfD it myself. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid ( coṁrá) 15:11, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
"...when the American Indians had a rich and diverse cooking style for an equally diverse amount of ingredients"
I'm confused by this statement. What does it mean by "equally diverse amount of ingredients"? How can an amount be diverse? Is it suggesting that the cuisines of the American Indians were very diverse, and that they used many different kinds of foods in these cuisines? Or is it making some comparison to post-colonial cuisines in America? I wanted to try to make this sentence less ambiguous, but now I'm completely confused as to what meaning it has. It seems like the opening sentences in this article could be a lot clearer and more precise. Jimjamjak ( talk) 14:16, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
The very end of Section 1.3 (20th century - 21st century) mentions "Trendy food items in the 2000s and 2010s (albeit with long traditions) include cupcakes, macaroons, and meatballs.[28]" I don't think macaroons was meant here; they haven't been nearly as possible as the similarly spelled macaron. (The citation was a citation to an article on the popularity of meatballs.) I suggest an edit in that direction. Thoughts?
Cinderlei ( talk) 04:38, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
Could we get a definition of "New American cuisine" added to this page?
For some reason "New American cuisine" links back to this article, and yet it's not defined here. As far as I can find, the term is not defined anywhere on Wikipedia.
The section of this article titled "Ethnic and immigrant influence" talks about Chez Panisse, Wolfgang Puck, etc. and discusses California Cuisine. Seems like New American cuisine should be discussed there as well. Both the articles on California Cuisine and the Culinary Revolution article are linked to, and both of those refer to New American cuisine but don't define it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.139.129 ( talk) 04:00, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
In addition, a Wikipedia search for "New American cuisine" redirects to this page instead of to the article with that exact title. iowaboy277 ( talk) 02:09, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
You could shorten and make this article concise by admitting that the whole point to "American" food is that it is MANUFACTURED. Through the history of United States, to what is available at the present vernacular food vendors, the goal was / is to achieve the industrial version of any little local or ethnic preparation contrivance. 66.119.193.155 ( talk) 14:10, 22 April 2014 (UTC)Donovan Hellinger
That's selective, slanted and absurd: the U.S. cuisine is one of the best and most varied in the world. - Zorobabele — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.50.46.128 ( talk) 18:26, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
The lead may contain improper synthesis. There are claims made there like "The cuisine of the United States reflects its history" and this might be a logical conclusion from sourced info in the body, but the references aren't in the lead. That's why there may be synthesis here. The body does have sourced content saying things like that American cuisine was influenced by the Native Americans, colonists bringing their cuisine from England, food becoming more industrialized during the French Revolution, and etc but no sources actually saying that American cuisine was influenced by its history. -- Mr. Guye ( talk) 21:55, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
That's a rather nitpicky way of looking at it. The fact of the matter is that's America as a nation was built on the backs of immigrants and has experienced no less than three great waves of immigration, two major ones from Europe and Africa, and the most recent one from Asia and Latin America. That would be general knowledge well known to the greater world. It does not require explanation. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Shadowkittie5460 (
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13:28, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
The section for Mid-Atlantic includes a paragraph that seems mostly "point of view (POV) and not verified by the citations made therein. It reads as follows:
References
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A Taste of Power: Food and American Identities by Katharina Vester, 2015, University of California Press Jodi.a.schneider ( talk) 01:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
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