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Warning, this page is patrolled by editors who will revert your writing without registering concerns and letting other people look at it. Look at revert 3 times rule. Please before removing or reverting edits, put it up to discussion here first like you're supposed to. No dueling editors, this is simply not neccesary, this belongs to everbody, no one has the right to simply erase content that is posted in good faith. It simply ruins the experience for everybody to just kick down someone else's sandcastle. -- Wiarthurhu 23:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Legacy isn't this the sort of thing that makes wp great instead of being deleted by dueling editors??
The Eagle would be the last AMC car before the 1988 Eagle Premier. By the 1990s, Subaru switched to a product line made completely of all-wheel-drive cars. Many auto reviewers remarked that the first sport utility wagon should be the Eagle, not the Subaru Outback, currently a best selling wagon in the US. Audi would also sell many AWD cars.
Chrysler would not introduce another all-wheel-drive sedan or wagon util the Chrysler Pacifica and Chrysler 300C. With the the Ford 500 / Freestyle and many european nameplates, the idea of the Eagle is finally coming of age.
May I refer you to Wikipedia rules and directions as to what to include and what not to include in an article, as well as how to write the article, what the WP is and what it is not? Please acquaint yourself with that. Pay attention to WP policy on "weasel words" and "original research". I see there is no welcome message in your talk page, which is a shame, therefore please see the one on top of my talk page for useful links.
In short - anything which is not a 100% fact has no place in WP, and not anything which is a fact has a place in every article. Regards,
Bravada,
talk -
16:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
PS. Please sign your edits on talk pages by adding ~~~~
The Sport package was available on the 1980 Eagle coupe, sedan, and wagon, according to my 1980 AMC brochure. It included the AMC Spirit's hood and straight trim piece at the hood's leading edge, as opposed to the standard Eagle hood, which came from the Concord and had a heavier header bar. The Sport package was not added for 1981.
1982 models did NOT get the tow package as standard equipment. The light-duty trailer package is listed in the 1982 American Motors full line catalog, not as standard equipment, but as an option. Also, '82 models added a wide-ratio automatic transmission and low-drag disc brakes for better fuel economy.
The Series 30 Eagle 2-door sedan was discontinued after 1982, not 1983, as my 1983 AMC full line brochure indicates. Also, the AMC 2.5L I4 became available on the Eagle in May 1983, according to Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999. So alledgedly some (though most likely very few) 1983 Eagles were or could have been equipped with it.
Shift-on-the-fly capability was introduced for the 1985 model year, not 1984 as the article says. I'd need to see some sort of documentation to support the claim that only the Series 30 wagon was available for public sale from 1984-on. The sedan was featured in the 1984, 85, 86, and 87 retail brochures.
It also mentions the debut of Shift-on-the-fly, confusingly, again under 1985, though it fails to mention the fact that the Sport hood and front fascia trim became standard, while the former hood was no longer used, making this the Eagle's last styling change. And the Eagle picked up a key fob activated remote locking system as an option.
Under "1988", the article could stand to note that the last Eagle was built on December 14, 1987, according to Patrick Foster's "American Motors: The Last Independent", as well as other sources.
If I recieve no disputes, I'll update the page. Rhettro76 02:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)Rhettro76
While 1988 Eagles retained AMC badges, they were no longer officially AMCs. They were Eagles, and their proper make/model name was "Eagle station wagon", as Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1999 indicates.
Also, production would have already been under way for the '88 Eagle when the takeover was finalized in August of 1987. This is why, as Patrick Foster's "American Motors: The Last Independent" indicates, Chrysler had to order that dealers replace the Renault badges on 1988 Premiers (and doubtless, Medallions) with the new Eagle emblem, as some had already arrived at dealerships or were in transit. Rhettro76 00:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
— 24.220.125.243 05:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)== 1988 Eagles ==
I do not own Patrick Foster's book. However I do own the "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999" I find it odd that this catalog contains no information about AMC Eagles after the 1986 model year (not even 1987's), but on the same page as the 1986 AMC production figures, shows a photo titled "1988 AMC, Eagle 4WD station wagon." - a car which Rhettro76 claims the "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999" says is an "Eagle station wagon". Do you believe everything you read? If you go by the "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999" the 1987 AMC Eagle does not exist! Have you ever considered that these publications may be wrong?
So, OK, we have the word of the formost expert on AMC history, and another publication which probably got it's information from him. In a message to me on his Talk page Rhettro76 places great importance on "marketing". Do we have any print ads, or television ads backing up the claims of "Eagle station wagon"? No. The only reference to the name I have seen in ads for these cars (all years) is "AMC Eagle", "American Eagle" and "American Eagle Wagon". Show me proof of "Eagle station wagon" in any marketing materials. You can't. They do not exist.
However, we have the VIN which states "American Motors (Canada) Inc." {Canada is in parenthesis in the Eagle TSM}
We have several AMC badges on the car.
We have "American Motors" all over the car.
The car's build sheet says "American Motors (Canada) Inc".
The 1988 Window Sticker says "AMC". go here... http://home.comcast.net/~desoto60/1988_Eagle_Window_Sticker.jpg
The 1988 Shipping order says "AMC". go here... http://home.comcast.net/~desoto60/1988_Eagle_Window_Sticker_Style_2.jpg
The 1988 addendum to the 1987 Dealer Brochure says "AMC"
It was built in the AMC plant in Brampton (Yes owned by Chrysler at the time. The Jaguar plant in England is owned by ford, but no one claims that it is a Ford XJS. A change in corporate ownership does not change or eliminate the marque.)
OVERWHELMING evidence points to "AMC Eagle Wagon" while only one very respected person claims otherwise. I'm sorry, it's an AMC.
As far as Rhettro76's Renault statement to me on his Talk page. There is plenty of reference to American Motors in print ads ("marketing") for Renault cars of the era. Here's one example... http://www.nicholasmcintosh.com/Fuego-Racey.jpg
Also, why would you remove the Hornet from the related vehicles? Have you seen a Hornet Wagon? It is the very same body used on the Eagles. Go here... http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/AmericanMotors/1971_AMC_Hornet_Sportabout_DL_Station_Wagon.jpg
I am sorry if I haven't gone about this in the right manner. I am new to this. I am only interested in documenting the facts about these cars. I do not believe that proof of fact is to be had in the books "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999" or "American Motors, the Last Independent". Though Mr. Foster is highly regarded. There are books out there that list the 1988 AMC Eagle as a Jeep, or an Eagle, or have no record of it at all. I beleive proof of fact is in the real world. I have proof sitting in my driveway. I have given many examples to back up my claims - Real World Claims, not blind faith in a printed word. What more do you need?
-- Nicholas McIntosh 04:25, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
OK, We'll have to agree to disagree. You say you're going with your sources and calling it an Eagle (make), and I say I'm going with the VIN, badges, stickers, and all of the car's documentation and calling it an AMC. I'll have to leave it up to the Wiki gods to decide which way to go.
Just curious, when does Foster claim the last "AMC" was produced... August or December of 87? http://www.planethoustonamx.com/stuff/last_amc_built.htm -- Nicholas McIntosh 17:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. But you're comparing apples to oranges. No one is trying to call it a 1970 Rambler Wagoneer, or a 90 Dodge Wagoneer, or a Rover XJS, or a Chevy 9-3, or a Mercedes-Benz Charger. Which is what you are doing when you call it an Eagle (make). New corporate ownership doesn't negate the make. AMC Bought Jeep, but it was still a Jeep Wagoneer. Chrysler bought AMC, but it was still a Jeep Wagoneer. Ford bought Jaguar, but it is still a Jaguar XJS. General Motors bought Saab, but it is still a Saab 9-3. And the company is now Daimler-Chrysler, but it is still a Dodge Charger.
And I'm not talking about parts. I'm not trying to call my car a ford because it has a ford starter. That is not my point. I'm talking about the emissions sticker, the door plate, the VIN, the badges, the build sheet, the window sticker, etc. Every bit of branding on the car says "AMC" or "American Motors". -- Nicholas McIntosh 20:05, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I have been asked to reply to this discussion. I posted something earlier today, but I do not see it any longer. So either I messed up, as a guest, or guest's cannot edit. Anyway I am the owner of the AMC Eagle Nest a little website devoted to the AMC Eagle and some may say I know a few things about this line of AMC's. Technically, yes, AMC did become part of Chrysler in 1987. At the time it was considered a merger (this can be debated hotly elsewhere). However, the 1988 AMC Eagle Station wagon was produced for model year 1988. With production ending in mid December. Throughout it's 9 year model run, AMC referred to this car as both the "American Eagle" and as the "AMC Eagle" in their corporate literature. If you look at a 1988 AMC Eagle Window Sticker and Invoice you will see either the AMC Logo and "American Motors" on it. Please follow this link to view them. [4] You will notice on the second document viewed there that the car was sold and warrantied by the American Motors Sales Corporation, not Chrysler. The 1988 brochure spoken about earlier also mentions the American Motors Sales Corporation along with the Chrylser information. The 1988 AMC Eagle was still badged as an AMC product, despite the myths. Other "Eagle" products other than the AMC Eagle Wagon were not advertised or sold as AMC products, just plain Eagles. Although, the Eagle Premier, if one was to look under the hood and elsewhere had AMC logo'd parts and stickers -- but so did Jeeps for a long time after the "merger". So yes, in my opinion, the AMC Eagle wagon for model year 1988 was an AMC product as a merged company with Chrysler. 71.7.23.126 23:09, 16 July 2007 (UTC)Doug Shepard, (IowaEagle) AMC Eagle Nest, LLC
Dodge VIN, Dodge Badges, Dodge documents, Daimler-Chrysler Ownership = Dodge; Saab VIN, Saab badges, Saab Documents, GMC Ownership = Saab; Jaguar VIN, Jaguar Badges, Jaguar Documents, Ford Ownership = Jaguar; AMC VIN, AMC Badges, AMC Documents, Chrysler Ownership = AMC no matter what the all trustworthy and common-sensical US federal government or Patrick Foster say. But don't look to the real world for answers, just bury your nose in a few books, and regurgitate. -- Nicholas McIntosh 01:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
My last word in this futile argument... It doesn't matter that the company was purchased by Chrysler, and warrantee serviced by Chrysler, and sold at Jeep/Eagle dealerships. The VIN and everything else on the car say it is an AMC.... period.
Before this erupts into a tussle, I want to ask the question generally.
Does the word "production" as it appears in the table indicate the years it was produced, or the model years for which it was marketed?
It is unclear, I will grant. However, I prefer to err on the side of literality until "model years" becomes its own valid line entry.
The table says "Production", not "Model Years". Therefore, in my opinion, the timeline of when the vehicle was produced is what's being asked...not the model years for which the vehicle was produced.
Thoughts? Rhettro76 21:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Subaru had installed AWD on a select few of its 1000 model for specific off road purposes in the late 60s. Also, the leone had a 4 wheel drive option in the early 70s. Could these be considered early cross overs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.228.181.253 ( talk) 17:55, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree that this article is just factually incorrect about the AMC Eagle being the pioneer of crossover vehicles. Subaru were making 4x4 wagons in the early 1970s - check out the wiki pages on the Subaru Leone. By the time the Eagle arrived, the Leone was into its second generation. The Eagle didn't inspire the Subaru Outback - 25 years of Subaru's own 4wd wagons, and the enthusiasts who had been installing lift kits and larger tires, are the more likely source! It is also unfair to call the Subaru part time 4wd system 'simplistic', and then proclaim the AMC Eagle's off-roading abilities. The old Subaru part time system, especially with the dual range gearbox, provides far better off road traction than any viscous coupled AWD system. It is also extremely rugged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.54.168.225 ( talk) 07:07, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
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To you fellows fighting over whether or not AMC existed after the Chrysler takeover: yes, it did. Not as an independent entity, but as a corporate entity, yes. And, yes, the final Eagles were built by American Motors Canada, which was a legal, corporate entity owned originally by AMC and never an independent company. A corporate entity does not have to be independent to exist as a legal entity. During a merger it takes time to legally dismantle a large corporation, such as AMC. The cars were marketed as Eagles during the brief period they were on the market but that doesn't mean they were built by Eagle or Chrysler proper. They were built by a Chrysler subsidiary named American Motors Canada. Chrysler eventually renamed American Motors Corporation "Jeep-Eagle Corporation" before dissolving the corporation and folding it into Chrysler subsidiaries. Yes, there was a Jeep-Eagle Corp.! In fact Nash-Kelvinator Corp, never ceased to exist, it simply changed it name to American Motors just before the merger (actually a consolidation) with the Hudson Motor Company.
There are many examples of companies marketing under one name but legally existing under another. It is called a D/B/A. The Ohio Bell Telephone Company has not been an independent corporation for well over 80 years yet has changed ownership and the way it markets itself. It has been marketed as Ohio Bell, Ameritech Ohio and now AT&T Ohio but the legal name is still the Ohio Bell Telephone Company.
So the final AMC was sold as an Eagle in advertising though badged an AMC and built by AMC after it was bought by Chrysler. From the now defunct Chrysler Corporation's point of view (yes, that Chrysler no longer exists) the Eagle would be considered among the first of the Eagle's make's first products. From a purely internal legal point of view they were AMC products. From the EPA's point of view they are Eagles. I saw one at the Eagle display at the Philadelphia auto show and it said AMC all over it. I would be interested to see who the door sticker said who built the very first Premiers. So, in a sense, you are both right. From a historical point of view I would consider the last 2,000 Eagles to be last AMCs.
What make did the various state and territorial vehicle registries use, AMC or Eagle? That would probably vary as well.
As for Patrick Foster, I have read many of his writings but he still doesn't understand that the legal entity known as American Motors did not begin in 1954 but in fact was a corporation incorporated in 1918 as the Nash Motor Company. Moody's industrial manual is a good source for the legal goings on that corporations don't even mention in their annual reports. 2601:85:C001:FB9B:C828:B76D:6128:6E5A ( talk) 01:16, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
A contributor added a claim that the Lada Niva is a "predecessor to current crossover SUVs" with a cite to That Car Review (30 Sep 2011). However, there is no indication in this reference of this "relic from the cold war era" as being a real crossover. Instead of it being a comfortable passenger car, it "is best described as agricultural." The Niva is a "cheap way to get workers around the farm" and not a crossover. On the other hand, the AMC Eagles with full-time all-wheel drive system are directly related to the Concord passenger line of cars. Therefore, the unsubstantiated opinions have been removed. CZmarlin ( talk) 20:49, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
First, does the HowStuffWork's article has an author? At least there is a name attached to the article, Eric Baxter. Click it, and you get... nothing. No info about the author, his credentials. At least the article has a list of references, which are very authoritative, like the Edmunds forum. Let's follow it: Edmunds.com. "What is a crossover?" Oct. 23, 2009. (July 13, 2011) http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1325f3 The link is long dead, but Internet remembers everything: https://web.archive.org/web/20090427040819/http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com:80/direct/view/.f1325f3/1 We can see that someone nicknamed chelentano posted a message about the origins of crossover vehicle. He dropped many names, including Subaru Leone, Lada Niva, Matra Rancho and the Eagle. Nowhere in his message he called the Eagle as the first crossover vehicle, so Eric Baxter simply pulled this info from thin air. The closest he comes is: ""Cross-Over" ... has often been retroactively applied to modified cars such as the AMC Eagle." This is it. Chelentano even has the start of production dates for the Niva and the Eagle. Eric Baxter, whoever he is, created the claim, and CZmarlin gave his words weight by quoting him in Wikipedia. This is how fake news spread and amplify.
Now, Eric Baxter himself writes: "Most people have a basic understanding of what a crossover vehicle is -- think car-like uni-body construction and fuel efficiency coupled with a four-wheel-drive or all-wheel-drive drivetrain." The Eagle was one of the first vehicles to have these features, but hardly the first one. So it is one of the first crossovers, but not the first one. No need to quote the "expert" who cannot even correctly quote his source. Case closed. Mikus ( talk) 22:26, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
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Warning, this page is patrolled by editors who will revert your writing without registering concerns and letting other people look at it. Look at revert 3 times rule. Please before removing or reverting edits, put it up to discussion here first like you're supposed to. No dueling editors, this is simply not neccesary, this belongs to everbody, no one has the right to simply erase content that is posted in good faith. It simply ruins the experience for everybody to just kick down someone else's sandcastle. -- Wiarthurhu 23:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Legacy isn't this the sort of thing that makes wp great instead of being deleted by dueling editors??
The Eagle would be the last AMC car before the 1988 Eagle Premier. By the 1990s, Subaru switched to a product line made completely of all-wheel-drive cars. Many auto reviewers remarked that the first sport utility wagon should be the Eagle, not the Subaru Outback, currently a best selling wagon in the US. Audi would also sell many AWD cars.
Chrysler would not introduce another all-wheel-drive sedan or wagon util the Chrysler Pacifica and Chrysler 300C. With the the Ford 500 / Freestyle and many european nameplates, the idea of the Eagle is finally coming of age.
May I refer you to Wikipedia rules and directions as to what to include and what not to include in an article, as well as how to write the article, what the WP is and what it is not? Please acquaint yourself with that. Pay attention to WP policy on "weasel words" and "original research". I see there is no welcome message in your talk page, which is a shame, therefore please see the one on top of my talk page for useful links.
In short - anything which is not a 100% fact has no place in WP, and not anything which is a fact has a place in every article. Regards,
Bravada,
talk -
16:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
PS. Please sign your edits on talk pages by adding ~~~~
The Sport package was available on the 1980 Eagle coupe, sedan, and wagon, according to my 1980 AMC brochure. It included the AMC Spirit's hood and straight trim piece at the hood's leading edge, as opposed to the standard Eagle hood, which came from the Concord and had a heavier header bar. The Sport package was not added for 1981.
1982 models did NOT get the tow package as standard equipment. The light-duty trailer package is listed in the 1982 American Motors full line catalog, not as standard equipment, but as an option. Also, '82 models added a wide-ratio automatic transmission and low-drag disc brakes for better fuel economy.
The Series 30 Eagle 2-door sedan was discontinued after 1982, not 1983, as my 1983 AMC full line brochure indicates. Also, the AMC 2.5L I4 became available on the Eagle in May 1983, according to Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999. So alledgedly some (though most likely very few) 1983 Eagles were or could have been equipped with it.
Shift-on-the-fly capability was introduced for the 1985 model year, not 1984 as the article says. I'd need to see some sort of documentation to support the claim that only the Series 30 wagon was available for public sale from 1984-on. The sedan was featured in the 1984, 85, 86, and 87 retail brochures.
It also mentions the debut of Shift-on-the-fly, confusingly, again under 1985, though it fails to mention the fact that the Sport hood and front fascia trim became standard, while the former hood was no longer used, making this the Eagle's last styling change. And the Eagle picked up a key fob activated remote locking system as an option.
Under "1988", the article could stand to note that the last Eagle was built on December 14, 1987, according to Patrick Foster's "American Motors: The Last Independent", as well as other sources.
If I recieve no disputes, I'll update the page. Rhettro76 02:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)Rhettro76
While 1988 Eagles retained AMC badges, they were no longer officially AMCs. They were Eagles, and their proper make/model name was "Eagle station wagon", as Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1999 indicates.
Also, production would have already been under way for the '88 Eagle when the takeover was finalized in August of 1987. This is why, as Patrick Foster's "American Motors: The Last Independent" indicates, Chrysler had to order that dealers replace the Renault badges on 1988 Premiers (and doubtless, Medallions) with the new Eagle emblem, as some had already arrived at dealerships or were in transit. Rhettro76 00:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
— 24.220.125.243 05:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)== 1988 Eagles ==
I do not own Patrick Foster's book. However I do own the "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999" I find it odd that this catalog contains no information about AMC Eagles after the 1986 model year (not even 1987's), but on the same page as the 1986 AMC production figures, shows a photo titled "1988 AMC, Eagle 4WD station wagon." - a car which Rhettro76 claims the "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999" says is an "Eagle station wagon". Do you believe everything you read? If you go by the "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999" the 1987 AMC Eagle does not exist! Have you ever considered that these publications may be wrong?
So, OK, we have the word of the formost expert on AMC history, and another publication which probably got it's information from him. In a message to me on his Talk page Rhettro76 places great importance on "marketing". Do we have any print ads, or television ads backing up the claims of "Eagle station wagon"? No. The only reference to the name I have seen in ads for these cars (all years) is "AMC Eagle", "American Eagle" and "American Eagle Wagon". Show me proof of "Eagle station wagon" in any marketing materials. You can't. They do not exist.
However, we have the VIN which states "American Motors (Canada) Inc." {Canada is in parenthesis in the Eagle TSM}
We have several AMC badges on the car.
We have "American Motors" all over the car.
The car's build sheet says "American Motors (Canada) Inc".
The 1988 Window Sticker says "AMC". go here... http://home.comcast.net/~desoto60/1988_Eagle_Window_Sticker.jpg
The 1988 Shipping order says "AMC". go here... http://home.comcast.net/~desoto60/1988_Eagle_Window_Sticker_Style_2.jpg
The 1988 addendum to the 1987 Dealer Brochure says "AMC"
It was built in the AMC plant in Brampton (Yes owned by Chrysler at the time. The Jaguar plant in England is owned by ford, but no one claims that it is a Ford XJS. A change in corporate ownership does not change or eliminate the marque.)
OVERWHELMING evidence points to "AMC Eagle Wagon" while only one very respected person claims otherwise. I'm sorry, it's an AMC.
As far as Rhettro76's Renault statement to me on his Talk page. There is plenty of reference to American Motors in print ads ("marketing") for Renault cars of the era. Here's one example... http://www.nicholasmcintosh.com/Fuego-Racey.jpg
Also, why would you remove the Hornet from the related vehicles? Have you seen a Hornet Wagon? It is the very same body used on the Eagles. Go here... http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/AmericanMotors/1971_AMC_Hornet_Sportabout_DL_Station_Wagon.jpg
I am sorry if I haven't gone about this in the right manner. I am new to this. I am only interested in documenting the facts about these cars. I do not believe that proof of fact is to be had in the books "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999" or "American Motors, the Last Independent". Though Mr. Foster is highly regarded. There are books out there that list the 1988 AMC Eagle as a Jeep, or an Eagle, or have no record of it at all. I beleive proof of fact is in the real world. I have proof sitting in my driveway. I have given many examples to back up my claims - Real World Claims, not blind faith in a printed word. What more do you need?
-- Nicholas McIntosh 04:25, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
OK, We'll have to agree to disagree. You say you're going with your sources and calling it an Eagle (make), and I say I'm going with the VIN, badges, stickers, and all of the car's documentation and calling it an AMC. I'll have to leave it up to the Wiki gods to decide which way to go.
Just curious, when does Foster claim the last "AMC" was produced... August or December of 87? http://www.planethoustonamx.com/stuff/last_amc_built.htm -- Nicholas McIntosh 17:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. But you're comparing apples to oranges. No one is trying to call it a 1970 Rambler Wagoneer, or a 90 Dodge Wagoneer, or a Rover XJS, or a Chevy 9-3, or a Mercedes-Benz Charger. Which is what you are doing when you call it an Eagle (make). New corporate ownership doesn't negate the make. AMC Bought Jeep, but it was still a Jeep Wagoneer. Chrysler bought AMC, but it was still a Jeep Wagoneer. Ford bought Jaguar, but it is still a Jaguar XJS. General Motors bought Saab, but it is still a Saab 9-3. And the company is now Daimler-Chrysler, but it is still a Dodge Charger.
And I'm not talking about parts. I'm not trying to call my car a ford because it has a ford starter. That is not my point. I'm talking about the emissions sticker, the door plate, the VIN, the badges, the build sheet, the window sticker, etc. Every bit of branding on the car says "AMC" or "American Motors". -- Nicholas McIntosh 20:05, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I have been asked to reply to this discussion. I posted something earlier today, but I do not see it any longer. So either I messed up, as a guest, or guest's cannot edit. Anyway I am the owner of the AMC Eagle Nest a little website devoted to the AMC Eagle and some may say I know a few things about this line of AMC's. Technically, yes, AMC did become part of Chrysler in 1987. At the time it was considered a merger (this can be debated hotly elsewhere). However, the 1988 AMC Eagle Station wagon was produced for model year 1988. With production ending in mid December. Throughout it's 9 year model run, AMC referred to this car as both the "American Eagle" and as the "AMC Eagle" in their corporate literature. If you look at a 1988 AMC Eagle Window Sticker and Invoice you will see either the AMC Logo and "American Motors" on it. Please follow this link to view them. [4] You will notice on the second document viewed there that the car was sold and warrantied by the American Motors Sales Corporation, not Chrysler. The 1988 brochure spoken about earlier also mentions the American Motors Sales Corporation along with the Chrylser information. The 1988 AMC Eagle was still badged as an AMC product, despite the myths. Other "Eagle" products other than the AMC Eagle Wagon were not advertised or sold as AMC products, just plain Eagles. Although, the Eagle Premier, if one was to look under the hood and elsewhere had AMC logo'd parts and stickers -- but so did Jeeps for a long time after the "merger". So yes, in my opinion, the AMC Eagle wagon for model year 1988 was an AMC product as a merged company with Chrysler. 71.7.23.126 23:09, 16 July 2007 (UTC)Doug Shepard, (IowaEagle) AMC Eagle Nest, LLC
Dodge VIN, Dodge Badges, Dodge documents, Daimler-Chrysler Ownership = Dodge; Saab VIN, Saab badges, Saab Documents, GMC Ownership = Saab; Jaguar VIN, Jaguar Badges, Jaguar Documents, Ford Ownership = Jaguar; AMC VIN, AMC Badges, AMC Documents, Chrysler Ownership = AMC no matter what the all trustworthy and common-sensical US federal government or Patrick Foster say. But don't look to the real world for answers, just bury your nose in a few books, and regurgitate. -- Nicholas McIntosh 01:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
My last word in this futile argument... It doesn't matter that the company was purchased by Chrysler, and warrantee serviced by Chrysler, and sold at Jeep/Eagle dealerships. The VIN and everything else on the car say it is an AMC.... period.
Before this erupts into a tussle, I want to ask the question generally.
Does the word "production" as it appears in the table indicate the years it was produced, or the model years for which it was marketed?
It is unclear, I will grant. However, I prefer to err on the side of literality until "model years" becomes its own valid line entry.
The table says "Production", not "Model Years". Therefore, in my opinion, the timeline of when the vehicle was produced is what's being asked...not the model years for which the vehicle was produced.
Thoughts? Rhettro76 21:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Subaru had installed AWD on a select few of its 1000 model for specific off road purposes in the late 60s. Also, the leone had a 4 wheel drive option in the early 70s. Could these be considered early cross overs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.228.181.253 ( talk) 17:55, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree that this article is just factually incorrect about the AMC Eagle being the pioneer of crossover vehicles. Subaru were making 4x4 wagons in the early 1970s - check out the wiki pages on the Subaru Leone. By the time the Eagle arrived, the Leone was into its second generation. The Eagle didn't inspire the Subaru Outback - 25 years of Subaru's own 4wd wagons, and the enthusiasts who had been installing lift kits and larger tires, are the more likely source! It is also unfair to call the Subaru part time 4wd system 'simplistic', and then proclaim the AMC Eagle's off-roading abilities. The old Subaru part time system, especially with the dual range gearbox, provides far better off road traction than any viscous coupled AWD system. It is also extremely rugged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.54.168.225 ( talk) 07:07, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 22:25, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
To you fellows fighting over whether or not AMC existed after the Chrysler takeover: yes, it did. Not as an independent entity, but as a corporate entity, yes. And, yes, the final Eagles were built by American Motors Canada, which was a legal, corporate entity owned originally by AMC and never an independent company. A corporate entity does not have to be independent to exist as a legal entity. During a merger it takes time to legally dismantle a large corporation, such as AMC. The cars were marketed as Eagles during the brief period they were on the market but that doesn't mean they were built by Eagle or Chrysler proper. They were built by a Chrysler subsidiary named American Motors Canada. Chrysler eventually renamed American Motors Corporation "Jeep-Eagle Corporation" before dissolving the corporation and folding it into Chrysler subsidiaries. Yes, there was a Jeep-Eagle Corp.! In fact Nash-Kelvinator Corp, never ceased to exist, it simply changed it name to American Motors just before the merger (actually a consolidation) with the Hudson Motor Company.
There are many examples of companies marketing under one name but legally existing under another. It is called a D/B/A. The Ohio Bell Telephone Company has not been an independent corporation for well over 80 years yet has changed ownership and the way it markets itself. It has been marketed as Ohio Bell, Ameritech Ohio and now AT&T Ohio but the legal name is still the Ohio Bell Telephone Company.
So the final AMC was sold as an Eagle in advertising though badged an AMC and built by AMC after it was bought by Chrysler. From the now defunct Chrysler Corporation's point of view (yes, that Chrysler no longer exists) the Eagle would be considered among the first of the Eagle's make's first products. From a purely internal legal point of view they were AMC products. From the EPA's point of view they are Eagles. I saw one at the Eagle display at the Philadelphia auto show and it said AMC all over it. I would be interested to see who the door sticker said who built the very first Premiers. So, in a sense, you are both right. From a historical point of view I would consider the last 2,000 Eagles to be last AMCs.
What make did the various state and territorial vehicle registries use, AMC or Eagle? That would probably vary as well.
As for Patrick Foster, I have read many of his writings but he still doesn't understand that the legal entity known as American Motors did not begin in 1954 but in fact was a corporation incorporated in 1918 as the Nash Motor Company. Moody's industrial manual is a good source for the legal goings on that corporations don't even mention in their annual reports. 2601:85:C001:FB9B:C828:B76D:6128:6E5A ( talk) 01:16, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
A contributor added a claim that the Lada Niva is a "predecessor to current crossover SUVs" with a cite to That Car Review (30 Sep 2011). However, there is no indication in this reference of this "relic from the cold war era" as being a real crossover. Instead of it being a comfortable passenger car, it "is best described as agricultural." The Niva is a "cheap way to get workers around the farm" and not a crossover. On the other hand, the AMC Eagles with full-time all-wheel drive system are directly related to the Concord passenger line of cars. Therefore, the unsubstantiated opinions have been removed. CZmarlin ( talk) 20:49, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
First, does the HowStuffWork's article has an author? At least there is a name attached to the article, Eric Baxter. Click it, and you get... nothing. No info about the author, his credentials. At least the article has a list of references, which are very authoritative, like the Edmunds forum. Let's follow it: Edmunds.com. "What is a crossover?" Oct. 23, 2009. (July 13, 2011) http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1325f3 The link is long dead, but Internet remembers everything: https://web.archive.org/web/20090427040819/http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com:80/direct/view/.f1325f3/1 We can see that someone nicknamed chelentano posted a message about the origins of crossover vehicle. He dropped many names, including Subaru Leone, Lada Niva, Matra Rancho and the Eagle. Nowhere in his message he called the Eagle as the first crossover vehicle, so Eric Baxter simply pulled this info from thin air. The closest he comes is: ""Cross-Over" ... has often been retroactively applied to modified cars such as the AMC Eagle." This is it. Chelentano even has the start of production dates for the Niva and the Eagle. Eric Baxter, whoever he is, created the claim, and CZmarlin gave his words weight by quoting him in Wikipedia. This is how fake news spread and amplify.
Now, Eric Baxter himself writes: "Most people have a basic understanding of what a crossover vehicle is -- think car-like uni-body construction and fuel efficiency coupled with a four-wheel-drive or all-wheel-drive drivetrain." The Eagle was one of the first vehicles to have these features, but hardly the first one. So it is one of the first crossovers, but not the first one. No need to quote the "expert" who cannot even correctly quote his source. Case closed. Mikus ( talk) 22:26, 31 May 2017 (UTC)