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![]() | On 18 December 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from American Israel Public Affairs Committee to AIPAC. The result of the discussion was moved. |
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The sentence Cuellar called
Amnesty International "antisemitic" after the release of its report accusing Israel of the crime of apartheid, in agreement with the
Human Right Watch and other Israeli and international human rights groups
in section
§ United Democracy Project spending is confusingly phrased. When I initially read it I interpreted it as meaning that the
HRW and other rights groups agreed with Cuellar's accusation of antisemitism, instead of the factual reality of them agreeing with Amnesty's accusation of genocide. Thus, the sentence should be rephrased. (I would submit a proper edit request, but I don't quite have enough time to do that properly so I am leaving this as message instead for other editors to take up the task, and/or a a note to self to remind me) –
99.146.242.37 (
talk)
17:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
"AIPAC describes itself as a bipartisan organization, and the bills for which it lobbies in Congress are always jointly sponsored by both a Democrat and Republican."
The way this is written implies that the organization is factually bipartisan and does not clarify that the second statement is a claim by AIPAC rather than an observed fact. The phrasing "the bills [...] are always jointly sponsored" is simply a falsehood. A counterclaim from an authentic source should also be added to state how aligned the organization truly is between Democrats and Republicans.
Finally, the source used (Times of Israel) could be argued to be biased or have conflict of interest to say AIPAC is bipartisan. A reliable American or international source would be needed for this issue. I.Elgamal ( talk) 13:24, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
AIPAC has been thoroughly criticized and has innumerable controversies mentioned in the literature but the section seems to focus more on criticism by US politicians which sort of misses the big picture. Makeandtoss ( talk) 10:11, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
The lead sentence says, “The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC/ˈeɪpæk/ AY-pak) is a Zionist lobbying group that advocates pro-Israel policies to the legislative and executive branches of the United States.” This seems redundant and confusing, and I suggest removing the word “Zionist”. The sentence already says pro-Israel. From a historical perspective, AIPAC was founded in 1953 after Israel already existed, so there was no time at which AIPAC was Zionist but not pro-Israel, and it is not clear what the word “Zionist” adds to the word “pro-Israel” other than to suggest (without any reliable sourcing) that AIPAC wants Israel to be more Jewish than it already is. Anyway, it’s undue weight for the lead sentence, though perhaps someone can write a subsection about it if reliable sourcing can be found. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 03:12, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
Zionism is back in the opening sentence of the lead. AIPAC was founded in 1954 as the “American Zionist Committee for Public Affairs” (AZCPA), which was changed to the current name in 1959. So the old name is not an alternative name, but rather an old archaic/obsolete name. It was changed in 1959 to describe a broader commitment, and so the old name is also not accurate as a current designation. Therefore, I don’t think it should be in the opening sentence of the lead. According to MOS:ALTNAME, such names “should not be placed in the first sentence.” However, discussing it in the history section is fine, along with its original parent organization ( American Zionist Council). The cited Rossinow source also describes that the meaning of “Zionism” has changed since the 1950s: “In 1959, the AZCPA was renamed AIPAC, 'Israel' replacing 'Zionist.' The new name acknowledged ostensibly non-Zionist participants in the committee….American Jews redefined Zionism to mean providing staunch and generally unquestioning support for the State of Israel, so long as the leaders of Jewish Israel maintained respect for the legitimacy and integrity of American Jewry as a Jewish community.” So this makes the old AZCPA name doubly obsolete/archaic: the membership of the organization changed, and the meaning of the old name also changed. By analogy, from 1921 to 2004 the Government Accountability Office used to be called the “General Accounting Office”, and the latter obsolete name is not in the opening sentence of our Wikipedia article. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 02:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
The logo on this page seems to be an older logo. There is a new logo visible on AIPAC’s homepage. Makemeaname22 ( talk) 14:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
AIPAC article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
![]() | Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 18 December 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from American Israel Public Affairs Committee to AIPAC. The result of the discussion was moved. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present. |
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The sentence Cuellar called
Amnesty International "antisemitic" after the release of its report accusing Israel of the crime of apartheid, in agreement with the
Human Right Watch and other Israeli and international human rights groups
in section
§ United Democracy Project spending is confusingly phrased. When I initially read it I interpreted it as meaning that the
HRW and other rights groups agreed with Cuellar's accusation of antisemitism, instead of the factual reality of them agreeing with Amnesty's accusation of genocide. Thus, the sentence should be rephrased. (I would submit a proper edit request, but I don't quite have enough time to do that properly so I am leaving this as message instead for other editors to take up the task, and/or a a note to self to remind me) –
99.146.242.37 (
talk)
17:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
"AIPAC describes itself as a bipartisan organization, and the bills for which it lobbies in Congress are always jointly sponsored by both a Democrat and Republican."
The way this is written implies that the organization is factually bipartisan and does not clarify that the second statement is a claim by AIPAC rather than an observed fact. The phrasing "the bills [...] are always jointly sponsored" is simply a falsehood. A counterclaim from an authentic source should also be added to state how aligned the organization truly is between Democrats and Republicans.
Finally, the source used (Times of Israel) could be argued to be biased or have conflict of interest to say AIPAC is bipartisan. A reliable American or international source would be needed for this issue. I.Elgamal ( talk) 13:24, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
AIPAC has been thoroughly criticized and has innumerable controversies mentioned in the literature but the section seems to focus more on criticism by US politicians which sort of misses the big picture. Makeandtoss ( talk) 10:11, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
The lead sentence says, “The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC/ˈeɪpæk/ AY-pak) is a Zionist lobbying group that advocates pro-Israel policies to the legislative and executive branches of the United States.” This seems redundant and confusing, and I suggest removing the word “Zionist”. The sentence already says pro-Israel. From a historical perspective, AIPAC was founded in 1953 after Israel already existed, so there was no time at which AIPAC was Zionist but not pro-Israel, and it is not clear what the word “Zionist” adds to the word “pro-Israel” other than to suggest (without any reliable sourcing) that AIPAC wants Israel to be more Jewish than it already is. Anyway, it’s undue weight for the lead sentence, though perhaps someone can write a subsection about it if reliable sourcing can be found. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 03:12, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
Zionism is back in the opening sentence of the lead. AIPAC was founded in 1954 as the “American Zionist Committee for Public Affairs” (AZCPA), which was changed to the current name in 1959. So the old name is not an alternative name, but rather an old archaic/obsolete name. It was changed in 1959 to describe a broader commitment, and so the old name is also not accurate as a current designation. Therefore, I don’t think it should be in the opening sentence of the lead. According to MOS:ALTNAME, such names “should not be placed in the first sentence.” However, discussing it in the history section is fine, along with its original parent organization ( American Zionist Council). The cited Rossinow source also describes that the meaning of “Zionism” has changed since the 1950s: “In 1959, the AZCPA was renamed AIPAC, 'Israel' replacing 'Zionist.' The new name acknowledged ostensibly non-Zionist participants in the committee….American Jews redefined Zionism to mean providing staunch and generally unquestioning support for the State of Israel, so long as the leaders of Jewish Israel maintained respect for the legitimacy and integrity of American Jewry as a Jewish community.” So this makes the old AZCPA name doubly obsolete/archaic: the membership of the organization changed, and the meaning of the old name also changed. By analogy, from 1921 to 2004 the Government Accountability Office used to be called the “General Accounting Office”, and the latter obsolete name is not in the opening sentence of our Wikipedia article. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 02:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
The logo on this page seems to be an older logo. There is a new logo visible on AIPAC’s homepage. Makemeaname22 ( talk) 14:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)