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Also said that Americal is the 23rd Infantry Division. ~ender 2003-04-13 03:38 MST
Someone added this, only to have the entire edit reverted.
Is this untrue? Or has someone simply censored it? If true, then the information is certainly relevant, and must be included. It would make sense to also include other information about the division, as My Lai is surely not the only thing that it is notable for since 1945. Tannin 10:54, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
for reasons not altogether clear to history A book I have says that the name "Americal Division" was suggested by one of Patch's soldiers, and approved by the Army on Patch's recommendation. I will put this into the article. I don't know if the claim is disputed, but if so I hope someone will come along later to correct me. Isomorphic 21:16, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Why was this unit awarded Vietnam Gallantry Cross ? ? ? ?
If you know, please email to Glamunyon@aol.com
Thanks
March 14, 1942 Two days after the task force later to be known as the Americal Division landed in Noumea, New Calidonia, the 182 Infantry was detailed to provide a special unit to be called Force A for advance occupation and outpost of the New Hebridies, a group of islands lying directly across the supply to U.S.
Assigned to this duty Co's L and M and attached units from Headquarters Co., Service Co., and Medical Det. plus a platoon of the 101st Engineers.
The total strength being in the vicinity of 480 men was in command of Brig. Gen Rose. That a B.G. should be placed in command of two infantry rifle companies indicated the degree of importance -- and hazard-- that G.H. G. placed upon the mission
comment from the source, a personal diary
It was sobering but then so was the entire situation and I think most of us felt it a distinction of sorts to be in the forefront
The men were assembled and told that Force A and 50 Aussies held the most advanced outpost of the Allied Forces in the Pacific. No retreat is possible, No reinforcements can be relied on. Supply is unreliable and limited. Japs are assembling a task force in the Truk area about 600 miles to the north, and their attack is expected. Our objective is to hamper their occupation of the New Hebridies in every way possible by destroying facilities, retreating to the interior and harassing them by guerilla action. Meanwhile we will set up observation outposts around the island and train ourselves in jungle survival, hit and run attack, Keeping radio contact with New Calidonia.
March 28, 1942 a unit of Force A left an isolated coconut plantation called Euralia for Port Havanah with (2) 2nd lt and 22 men on a small auxiliary sailboat with equipment and 10 days rations to begin their guerilla action by gathering the native headhunters and plantation workers from the nearby islands as force extenders. 142.0.102.230 ( talk) 12:05, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
May 27, 1942 Force A left Vila as deck cargo on New Zealand cruiser Leander [ [1]]
May 28 At dawn anchored at Loganville Espirito Santo. No other vessels in harbor. US Destroyer escort patrolling harbor mouth while we unload. Only other military, two navy planes with ground crew and pilots also on beach
July 2, 1942 Jap convoy reported headed our way. Orders received to be ready to evacuate to interior. Buildings will be burned and surplus supplies destroyed if attack develops. M Company led by planter explored evacuation route into interior.
July 11, 1942 Naval Construction Bn. (CB's) surveyed and laid out airport in M. Michelles coconut plantation over a mile long to accomodate bombers. Schedule calls for ready to use in THREE WEEKS! Labor will be provided by L and M co.s
July 20 1942 New airfield looks like prairie. Three times since cutting began the direction of runway has been changed. Marines are instaling AA batteries all over the place. One just outside hospital making us the bullseye of counter battery fire.
July 21 Freighter anchored in front of Hospital today with heavy equipment and pierced steel matting for airfield, Also air bombs.
July 28 First planes came in to land today. Gen Rose first to alight, exuberant that field was done on time 17 days from survey to first landing 142.0.102.180 ( talk) 11:44, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
24.68.226.166 21:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC) I've changed the empty link to Fire Base Mary Ann to link to the article surrounding the battle.
the section states
"The My Lai Massacre has always overshadowed the accomplishments of the Americal. This massacre involved a small group of idiots led by an idiot. Aside from this tragedy, no atrocities were committed by the Americal, as noted."
this phrasing seems too dismissive since there were hundreds if not thousands of actions that resembled My Lai. the cause of My Lai wasn't idiocy it was the assumption on the part of the USA Military Command that all the villages in any of the many free-fire zones were rebel held or rebel supporting. this resulted in unit commanders being given very general orders for clearance operations with, as always, a focus on the body-count.
which in turn resulted in units commiting these kind of crimes
sorry for the essay but this sort of POV shouldn't be in wikipedia
user name is teknotiss (didn't sign in) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.19.231 ( talk) 00:26, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
There are numerous sources of My Lai not being the only atrocity or massacre committed during the Vietnam war. For instance Richard Stacewicz; Winter Soldiers: An Oral History of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War; Twayne Publishers, 1997 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.215.97.201 ( talk) 21:46, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
That claim was proven to be nothing more than a silly myth; I have added the link to the Battle of Kham Duc as a point. The Americal Division was beaten in numerous battles. Canpark ( talk) 12:13, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
If you are working on this article, be sure to use the holdings of the Pritzker Military Museum & Library. As a participating GLAM Institution, the staff at PMML is eager to help other editors in making improvements to this article. TeriEmbrey ( talk) 20:10, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
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It was proposed in this section that
23rd Infantry Division (United States) be
renamed and moved to
Americal Division.
result: disclaimer: this closure is neutral; whether or not there is consensus, only the arguments in the request below are reflected, nothing else. Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
disclaimer: this closure is neutral; whether or not there is consensus, only the arguments in the request below are reflected, nothing else.
23rd Infantry Division (United States) → Americal Division – WP:COMMONNAME. Page was at Americal Division until it was moved without discussion in 2008. The official World War II history of the division, US Army sources, and even the official division reports overwhlemingly use the name Americal Division rather than its numerical designation. The division veterans organization is named Americal Division veterans. Wikipedia policy discourages use of the official name of a subject in cases where the official name is not the most common name of the subject, see WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAMES. However, given the use in official sources published by the division of Americal Division as its name, it is questionable whether 23rd Infantry Division even has dominance as the official name. For example, a newspapers.com search of American newspapers from 1968 to 1971 gives 44k hits for Americal Division and only 3k matches for 23rd Infantry Division. Press coverage of My Lai, which the division received the most coverage for, mostly does not even mention the numerical division of the unit and refers to it solely as Americal. This would seem to be overwhelming evidence that Americal Division was the common name during Vietnam despite the official numbering. Our article should be at the most common name for the unit regardless of an insistence on strictly adhering to official nomenclature even when the latter is relatively rarely used. Kges1901 ( talk) 22:09, 2 July 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 23:27, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Americal Division article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Also said that Americal is the 23rd Infantry Division. ~ender 2003-04-13 03:38 MST
Someone added this, only to have the entire edit reverted.
Is this untrue? Or has someone simply censored it? If true, then the information is certainly relevant, and must be included. It would make sense to also include other information about the division, as My Lai is surely not the only thing that it is notable for since 1945. Tannin 10:54, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
for reasons not altogether clear to history A book I have says that the name "Americal Division" was suggested by one of Patch's soldiers, and approved by the Army on Patch's recommendation. I will put this into the article. I don't know if the claim is disputed, but if so I hope someone will come along later to correct me. Isomorphic 21:16, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Why was this unit awarded Vietnam Gallantry Cross ? ? ? ?
If you know, please email to Glamunyon@aol.com
Thanks
March 14, 1942 Two days after the task force later to be known as the Americal Division landed in Noumea, New Calidonia, the 182 Infantry was detailed to provide a special unit to be called Force A for advance occupation and outpost of the New Hebridies, a group of islands lying directly across the supply to U.S.
Assigned to this duty Co's L and M and attached units from Headquarters Co., Service Co., and Medical Det. plus a platoon of the 101st Engineers.
The total strength being in the vicinity of 480 men was in command of Brig. Gen Rose. That a B.G. should be placed in command of two infantry rifle companies indicated the degree of importance -- and hazard-- that G.H. G. placed upon the mission
comment from the source, a personal diary
It was sobering but then so was the entire situation and I think most of us felt it a distinction of sorts to be in the forefront
The men were assembled and told that Force A and 50 Aussies held the most advanced outpost of the Allied Forces in the Pacific. No retreat is possible, No reinforcements can be relied on. Supply is unreliable and limited. Japs are assembling a task force in the Truk area about 600 miles to the north, and their attack is expected. Our objective is to hamper their occupation of the New Hebridies in every way possible by destroying facilities, retreating to the interior and harassing them by guerilla action. Meanwhile we will set up observation outposts around the island and train ourselves in jungle survival, hit and run attack, Keeping radio contact with New Calidonia.
March 28, 1942 a unit of Force A left an isolated coconut plantation called Euralia for Port Havanah with (2) 2nd lt and 22 men on a small auxiliary sailboat with equipment and 10 days rations to begin their guerilla action by gathering the native headhunters and plantation workers from the nearby islands as force extenders. 142.0.102.230 ( talk) 12:05, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
May 27, 1942 Force A left Vila as deck cargo on New Zealand cruiser Leander [ [1]]
May 28 At dawn anchored at Loganville Espirito Santo. No other vessels in harbor. US Destroyer escort patrolling harbor mouth while we unload. Only other military, two navy planes with ground crew and pilots also on beach
July 2, 1942 Jap convoy reported headed our way. Orders received to be ready to evacuate to interior. Buildings will be burned and surplus supplies destroyed if attack develops. M Company led by planter explored evacuation route into interior.
July 11, 1942 Naval Construction Bn. (CB's) surveyed and laid out airport in M. Michelles coconut plantation over a mile long to accomodate bombers. Schedule calls for ready to use in THREE WEEKS! Labor will be provided by L and M co.s
July 20 1942 New airfield looks like prairie. Three times since cutting began the direction of runway has been changed. Marines are instaling AA batteries all over the place. One just outside hospital making us the bullseye of counter battery fire.
July 21 Freighter anchored in front of Hospital today with heavy equipment and pierced steel matting for airfield, Also air bombs.
July 28 First planes came in to land today. Gen Rose first to alight, exuberant that field was done on time 17 days from survey to first landing 142.0.102.180 ( talk) 11:44, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
24.68.226.166 21:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC) I've changed the empty link to Fire Base Mary Ann to link to the article surrounding the battle.
the section states
"The My Lai Massacre has always overshadowed the accomplishments of the Americal. This massacre involved a small group of idiots led by an idiot. Aside from this tragedy, no atrocities were committed by the Americal, as noted."
this phrasing seems too dismissive since there were hundreds if not thousands of actions that resembled My Lai. the cause of My Lai wasn't idiocy it was the assumption on the part of the USA Military Command that all the villages in any of the many free-fire zones were rebel held or rebel supporting. this resulted in unit commanders being given very general orders for clearance operations with, as always, a focus on the body-count.
which in turn resulted in units commiting these kind of crimes
sorry for the essay but this sort of POV shouldn't be in wikipedia
user name is teknotiss (didn't sign in) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.19.231 ( talk) 00:26, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
There are numerous sources of My Lai not being the only atrocity or massacre committed during the Vietnam war. For instance Richard Stacewicz; Winter Soldiers: An Oral History of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War; Twayne Publishers, 1997 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.215.97.201 ( talk) 21:46, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
That claim was proven to be nothing more than a silly myth; I have added the link to the Battle of Kham Duc as a point. The Americal Division was beaten in numerous battles. Canpark ( talk) 12:13, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
If you are working on this article, be sure to use the holdings of the Pritzker Military Museum & Library. As a participating GLAM Institution, the staff at PMML is eager to help other editors in making improvements to this article. TeriEmbrey ( talk) 20:10, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 23rd Infantry Division (United States). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:11, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
23rd Infantry Division (United States) be
renamed and moved to
Americal Division.
result: disclaimer: this closure is neutral; whether or not there is consensus, only the arguments in the request below are reflected, nothing else. Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
disclaimer: this closure is neutral; whether or not there is consensus, only the arguments in the request below are reflected, nothing else.
23rd Infantry Division (United States) → Americal Division – WP:COMMONNAME. Page was at Americal Division until it was moved without discussion in 2008. The official World War II history of the division, US Army sources, and even the official division reports overwhlemingly use the name Americal Division rather than its numerical designation. The division veterans organization is named Americal Division veterans. Wikipedia policy discourages use of the official name of a subject in cases where the official name is not the most common name of the subject, see WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAMES. However, given the use in official sources published by the division of Americal Division as its name, it is questionable whether 23rd Infantry Division even has dominance as the official name. For example, a newspapers.com search of American newspapers from 1968 to 1971 gives 44k hits for Americal Division and only 3k matches for 23rd Infantry Division. Press coverage of My Lai, which the division received the most coverage for, mostly does not even mention the numerical division of the unit and refers to it solely as Americal. This would seem to be overwhelming evidence that Americal Division was the common name during Vietnam despite the official numbering. Our article should be at the most common name for the unit regardless of an insistence on strictly adhering to official nomenclature even when the latter is relatively rarely used. Kges1901 ( talk) 22:09, 2 July 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 23:27, 12 July 2022 (UTC)