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There are currently THREE FULL TALK PAGES (2 archives and this one), and 95% of the comments are of redirecting this to the good old US of A.--Kevin1gamer 01:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevin1gamer ( talk • contribs)
In the UK, I was brought up to say "America" as USA, but I now consider America to be whole continent. 78.150.183.177 ( talk) 10:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Most people who speak English, refer to the United States as "America". Citizens of the United States as "Americans". The opinions of people who do not speak English natively should be moot here. As they can call it whatever they like in the Portugese or French or Spanish Article. Point is, those who speak English, in an overwhelming majority refer to the United States of America as "America".
So, at least list United States of America on top. As that is the most common reference to the word America.
This whole page just smells of PC liberalism. Neutrality alert. Lets take away America's name and take the first word out of North America and South America and call them both America. Lets call Brazillians "Americans" even though they do not think as such. Mexicans call themselves Mexicans, not Americans. And Canadians call themselves Canadians.
Come on folks, this is crap. America is the United States of America in English and a small minority of people who happen to write wikipedia articles are attempting to change people's perception of how the word is used.
I can agree for a compromise on putting USA on top. That should be first on the damned list. 24.217.92.232 ( talk) 17:32, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Colombia, or the English Columbia, actually refers to the entire "New World," so I can't see why one country should monopolize the name. I hope you see my sarcasm. A lot of non-native English speakers seem to come here with an agenda. But the usage of "America" to refer to the USA seems fairly standard throughout the native English speaking world, not only in the USA. As this is English-language Wikipedia, I think we should stick with the English-language convention. 98.221.132.86 ( talk) 07:06, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Here's an option for finding out how the readership is actually using this page:
I'm not an avid Wikipedian, so I'm not very brushed up on Wikipedia rules and proceedings, but I find this whole argument completely nonsensical.
Now clearly, the "slang" definition has not entirely taken over the Wikipedian definition, because I am redirected to the disambiguation page and not the nation; however, it is still wrong. I suggest two options which should be enough for both sides, but favors the correct version of the term:
(NOTE #1: We would also move the current disambiguation article for "America" to "America (disambiguation)" in both cases)
(NOTE #2: There would either be a Distinguish or About template linking to United States at the top of the main article in both cases, beside a Other uses template.)
I'm not sure how to initiate a vote on this, so if anyone else wishes to do so, or comment, go right ahead.
Ericleb01 (
talk)
18:55, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
I think is funny that North and South America are "The Americas", and North and South Korea are Korea and not "The Koreas". I think we should move Americas to "America" and the current America article to America (disambiguation).
And the top of the new America article with something like:
This article is about the lands of the Western hemisphere. For other uses, see America (disambiguation). -- 200.121.150.214 ( talk) 07:06, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
I think this is more a "US English" usage/problem, because they want to reserve the America name for them.-- 200.121.150.214 ( talk) 22:24, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Typing in the word "America" should automatically send you to this page United States of America. What is up with the Americas and all that other stuff? If they type in "Americas" then that one can go the continent, but America is America. I've never heard anyone in English saying "I'm from America" if they are not from the US. Please make the neccessary arrangements so that Wikipedians may find what they're looking for faster and easier. Thank you, ( 209.7.171.66 15:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC))
Typing in "America" should NOT send you to the United States of America page. America is the whole continent. A person from Manaos, Brazil is as American as one from Atlanta, USA. The fact that there are very many English-speakers who call America only the USA, it does not make it right at all. This problem has to do with the unfortunate lack of education in the USA towards the rest of the world. So, to make it short. America is the entire continent, from Alaska all the way down to Chile and Argentina. Keep in mind that by the time the name was given, it was actually focused on the southern lands, given that the British colonies arrived some time later than the Spanish and Portuguese conquerors. 00:16, 21 October 2008 (GMT+1) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoffmannm ( talk • contribs)
You waste your time. This same discussion was made several times. This article will be left unchanged in the end. Oh, and I personally disagree with the America is USA thing. -- Shadowy Crafter 00:27, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
America was the name given to the New continent discovered by Columbus, after some years the name was taken by the USA because they couldn't take a name of their own. I think it is good that both options are open at wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.166.136.118 ( talk) 19:21, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
First of all, it is obvious that almost everyone whining about "America" somehow, against all logic and rational reasoning, referring to the entire Western Hemisphere is not a native speaker of English and therefore should stick to their own language's wikipedia and refrain from attempting to force their bizarre point of view on the English version. But on to my main point, to those arguing that North and South America are actually one single continent called "America", I ask you to fire up google image and actually look at a map of the world for the first time in your life: now tell me, how in the fucking hell can you argue that Europe and Asia are two continents, whereas North and South America are one? Nature had them literally dangling from each other by a thread, and the Panama Canal snipped it. Europe and Asia are, unarguably, a single landmass, and Asia and Africa's canal border is much, much longer than the Isthmus of Panama. Under your logic the planet Earth hosts four continents: America, Australia, Antarctica, and Eurasiafrica. I, personally, am reasonably certain that there are seven. Wormwoodpoppies ( talk) 02:24, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
From what I've seen semantically across the South American Wikipedia pages, a nation's name is designated as the page title, not its system of governmental conglomeration:
Bolivia, officially The Plurinational State of Bolivia (Spanish: Estado Plurinacional de Bolivia
Argentina, officially the Argentine Republic[5] (Spanish: República Argentina,
Brazil (Portuguese: Brasil), officially the Federative Republic of Brazil (Portuguese: República Federativa do Brasil)
Chile, officially the Republic of Chile (Spanish: RepChile.ogg República de Chile)
Colombia (IPA: /kəˈlʌmbɪə/), officially the Republic of Colombia (Spanish: República de Colombia.ogg República de Colombia
Ecuador (IPA: /ˈɛkwədɔr/), officially the Republic of Ecuador (Spanish: República del Ecuador
Guyana (pronounced /ɡaɪˈænə/ or /ɡiːˈɑːnə/), officially the Co-operative Republic of Guyana and previously known as British Guiana
Paraguay, officially the Republic of Paraguay (Spanish: República del Paraguay
Peru (Spanish: Perú, Quechua: Piruw, Aymara: Piruw), officially the Republic of Peru
Suriname[2] (Dutch: Suriname; Sranan Tongo: Sranan), officially the Republic of Suriname, is a country in northern South America.
Uruguay, (official full name in Spanish: República Oriental del Uruguay; Spanish pronunciation: [reˈpuβlika oɾjenˈtal ðel uɾuˈɣwai], Eastern Republic of Uruguay
Venezuela (pronounced /ˌvɛnɨˈzweɪlə/ or /ˌvɛnɨˈzwɛlə/; Spanish pronunciation: [beneˈswela]), officially the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela (Spanish: República Bolivariana de Venezuela), is a country on the northern coast of South America.
All of these nations are called by their name. Why is America called by the way it is formed? - The United States? Of where?? These nations are all republics, but we still refer to them by their name. Whether anyone likes the fact that some old white guy chose the continent's name (also the brain-child of some white guy) as the nation's seems irrelevant. To be perfectly logical about this, it is only right that America refer to just that, the nation, a union of states, together named America.
That, or I propose we refer to all of the South American Countries as The Republic. - R0bert ( talk) 03:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
America was considered one continent. Before the Panama Canal the Americas, North America and South America, were actually just "America" - If you look at the naming of the Country - you'll see an alternative was calling it the "United States of Columbia" - Which also refers to the continent discovered by Columbus or Vespucci.-- Keerlls ton 18:27, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
United States school children are taught that Columbus discovered their country: "America", but actually, Columbus never discovered or set foot in what is now the United States. Columbus discovered America, but the America which signifies the entire Western Hemisphere, and which consists of all lands from Canada to Chile/Argentina. In all of Latin America, the term America refers to the entire Western Hemisphere and never to the United States. On the other hand, in many Latin countries the term "American", may refer, depending on the context, to belonging to or relating to, either, the entire Western Hemisphere or to the United States. In the name of The Organization of American States, for example, the term American alludes to all the countries of the Western Hemisphere. In Europe, Just as no one refers to "the Europes", because of there is a Western Europe and an Eastern Europe, in Latin America, America is viewed as one geographical mass, even though it may be further broken down into North, Central, South, Caribbean etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.173.34.176 ( talk) 20:02, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Here's an email from someone who believes strongly that "America" should not be construed as [globally] referring to the US. I've encouraged him to respond here directly.
> Hi Wiki... > > While looking for America, i encounter this: > > "Use of the term America may be ambiguous, as it can > refer to either this entire landmass or just the > United States of America." - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas > > I do not agree with that since, i live in Costa Rica - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_rica - Wich is a > Country in central America. and here in my country and > most of the rest of America Excluding the U.S.A and > CANADA, we call america as a CONTINENT not a country. > > Please can you change a part of that paragraph, since > not all ppl consider America as a Country... > > indeed its important to us to remeber and know AMERICA > just as a continent, giving the term the flexibility > to also refer to U.S.A, is to desacredit the others > nations living in the continent. > > so please i will fell happier if you could change that > part of the article to: > > "Use of the term America may be ambiguous, as it can > refer to either this entire landmass" > > it will give to all of us, residents of AMERICA more > neutrality :D > > THX
As a Canadian, I can say that I've always considered it incorrect to refer to the U.S. as simply "America". However, it is correct to refer to its citizens as "Americans". It's kinda a double standard. I wouldn't say that the majority of the English speaking world would refer to the U.S. as simply "America", either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.68.36.25 ( talk) 00:24, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
The purpose of the phrases attached to the entries on disambiguation pages (see WP:MOSDAB) is to assist readers determine which of the entries contain the information they are looking for. The two entries as they currently are:
It would be clear to most readers that the second is where to go to read about the country consisting of 50 states between Canada and Mexico. It is more unclear what the first one is. Since it is unclear, the reader will have to either scan through the entire page to figure out by process of elimination or click through - both unnecessary if we simply put in several words here to distinguish it from the other entries.
The downside of putting more words in here? Too many words would make the page as a whole more difficult to navigate through as you try to find other things, but I believe the few words I am about to restore from my previous edit don't do that. I don't quite understand the criteria given against it. Both entries are being treated equally: provide enough information to let the reader know enough to see if the page is the one they are looking for. (John User:Jwy talk) 23:01, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
The long held and broad consensus at WP:MOSDAB suggests that clarity for an entire disambiguation page is improved by the shortest (with some exceptions) disambiguating phrase that explains how that entry is different from the others so the reader can choose the one they are looking for. I agree with Propaniac that USA is sufficiently differentiated from the other entries without further description. I MIGHT accept something as simple as ", the country," but I can't think of what else someone would honestly think that article is about, whereas "The Americas" among a bunch of different uses of the term America is at least more ambiguous that USA and I would suggest we put, at least, ", the continents" on that one to make it clear. "The Americas, the continents" and "the United States of America" - to me - are equally (i.e. "consistently") clear in the context I describe. (John User:Jwy talk) 19:55, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm still confused as to what the big deal is. You want to add a description to the second...great. So why can't we also add a description to the first? The only reasoning I'm seeing so far is a concern for "cluttering up the page unnecessarily". Is that honestly what all the reluctance is about? You're assuming from your own perspective (most of you are residents of the U.S.) that everybody already knows what "the United States of America" is. I'd assume, from my own perspective (having taken 1st Grade geography), that everybody would know what "the Americas" is. But there's simply no way one can credibly assume these things. If the purpose here is to aid the navigator through further indication, then I don't understand the arguments that have been presented so far, or the reluctance to do exactly that with all entries. Night w ( talk) 04:31, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Its not a "big deal," but it is "big" enough that I am reluctant to withdraw simply from being exhausted from the discussions - especially when I believe my arguments are consistent with consensus, both with WP:MOSDAB and a budding consensus here. "Why the big deal" could also apply to an insistence on "either-or-neither."
I am not claiming that people will not understand that "The Americas" may mean the continents, just that it reasonably applies to the plural of other items which are on this page. I also assume that most users of the English Wikipedia will know that United States of America is a country - or at least will know that it is (or is not) the article they were looking for when they entered "America." Again, the goal of the disambiguating phrases is not to completely explain the article referenced, but to enable the reader to distinguish the articles from each other. Longer bits of unnecessary text make it hard to scan the page to do this.
The other pages you mention either 1) have articles that require careful description to distinguish them from one another or 2) have unnecessary text. The "right amount" depends on the term involved and the articles that might possibly be the desired target of readers entering the term. Each term has its own requirements. (John User:Jwy talk) 16:53, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
The second seems absurd to me. I suppose the first might to you. Not to me in the context of a page with a bunch of other "America" references. (John User:Jwy talk) 07:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for going back and returning that to my attention. I had triggered on the last line and not read above it carefully. "Similar structure and comparable content" are means to something else, I think. I focus on optimizing these pages for navigation and in some cases similar structure and content can help with navigation, sometimes not. Its not a contest for respect or "proper treatment" for the individual topics, its the navigation. On some pages (I've given up trying to do anything on the India disambiguation page, for example), the topics are sufficiently controversial for a variety of reasons and consensus could only be arrived by reducing some of the navigational efficiency (or bending the guidelines INTENDED for that) in favor of this sort of balance. I naively considered these terms not in that category. I am proved wrong. As I don't particularly care that these are (non-navigationally) treated equally and I still believe - for navigational purposes - the USA entry does not require further disambiguation, my preference is still option 1. But if it falls into this other category, for me it goes from becoming "not such a big deal" to "let's keep the phrases short" if there are any at all. Am I making sense? (John User:Jwy talk) 17:53, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
My preference:
I'd be fine with:
I wouldn't object to similar longer phrases if they don't get too long. I'm not sure what other editors would say. We would need to make it clear that the edit is "contentious" and is a compromise of navigational efficiency to strong opinions based on the content. My primary concerns are 1) Americas gets its (what I still believe is) required disambiguating phrase and 2) we keep the page navigational efficient. (John User:Jwy talk) 21:39, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
So is it ok to put these phrases in, or are we still debating? The only number to appear in everybody's preferences in the poll below is #3. Night w ( talk) 21:39, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I hope nobody minds if I start a simple straw poll in an attempt to establish consensus. Here are the four possible options, as I see them:
If you have a preference, I request that you express it below, rating your preferred options in the order you would support them, from most to least.
Can someone literate me? Since when in history has the phrase "The Americas" has been used? Since I'm little I have been teached the group of continents in the western Hemisphere that being North & South America are called America. That also seems to be true in some other 100+ different languages, as a matter of fact, only recently I have seen the phrase "The Americas". For me, that phrase is not in my dictionary as I don't know anything by the name "The Americas". Ignoring teachings one can, by logic reasoning, find that the name for the group of continents is in fact America. The United States of.... something called America. North America, the Northern Part of something called America. South America, the southern part of something called America. When was "The Americas" invented, is something I don't know. Because of this 5 year old reasoning I conclude that the words a top of the article, that it should be disambiguation anyways, should say America & The United States of America in that way, in that order. Although I believe it should redirect to America the group of continents and a top should say "For the United States of America click here". Why? It may be popular that it should direct to the US, but, is incorrect. Many Universities despise the use of Wikipedia because people can put whatever they think is correct as this article has shown us. Douken ( talk) 21:25, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
In the English language, in its many varieties, America is used predominantly to refer to the USA. It is only occasionally used to refer to its other historic, foreign language or geographic uses. I'm not putting a value judgment here on any one country in North or South America (the continents) owning the name. This disambiguation page is wrong when it says as the 1st point of order that America usually refers to 'the Americas'. I have attempted to correct this and it has been reverted by a number of people. Why cannot the USA be listed as the 1st and most common use of this word? This is what happens when you use this word in the English language.
In
American (word) The following sentence is used:
In modern English, "American" generally refers to the United States, and in the U.S. itself this usage is almost universal.
. This is confirmed again in Americas where a similar sentence is used:
America may be ambiguous in English, as it is more commonly used to refer to the United States of America.
. What is wrong with making this page's lead disambiguation say at least:
America usually refers to:
- The United States of America
America may also refer to:
- The Americas
Ozdaren ( talk) 23:10, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
The most common use for the word America in the English language is to refer to the United State of America. A very much less common use is to refer to the continents. The continents are refered to as North and South America, occasionally in a combined way as 'the Americas'. It is not the only use of America and indeed in foreign languages it is perhaps not used primarily in that way at all. The only divided usage seems to be on Wikipedia. It is quite clear that in countries where English is the 1st language America primarily refers to the USA. Google it... Why therefore should the English W/P not reflect this usage? Ozdaren ( talk) 09:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi Night w. Most common and less common is what I said (ie when you speak to someone and say America, they initially assume you are talking about the USA unless a different context is established). I mentioned that the usage I believe is correct is used by the majority of English as a first language speakers. Thanks for the advice on dictionaries and encylodpaedias Ozdaren ( talk) 23:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
What is the meaning of the word OF in the sentence UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?.
"America" shouldn't redirect here. When speaking English, the term "America" refers to the United States. I guarantee that at least 99% of Wikipedia users who search for "America" click through to the United States article. It doesn't matter that other languages use "America" to refer to "the Americas." This ih the English language Wikipedia. This is absolute bollocks. 76.219.170.8 ( talk) 22:29, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
I'll second that note. If you speak English natively, and you use the word "America" you are referring to the United States. Also, North and South America are two continents if anyone wants to bring up that argument. Come on, can't we even call it what we call it on an English encyclopedia anymore? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.217.45.223 ( talk) 06:11, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian ( talk) 14:46, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
America → America (disambiguation) – This move would allow the term America to redirect to United States, per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The argument has been made that the term "America" refers to the combined North and South American landmass as well as to the United States of America. But this is not the referent for any of the top results obtained by googling America -wikipedia. (The top Latin American related result I noticed was on page 3.) The results from Bing are similar. (The top Latin result is No. 11.) Kauffner ( talk) 14:05, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Given that the People's Republic of China page was moved to China, due substantially to the current modern usage of the term "China", I think the move of the United States of America page to this page is deserving of reconsideration, the recently closed requested move discussion notwithstanding. A quick glance through the China discussion reveals that the admins and editors who supported the move based their opinion largely on the common use of "China" to refer to the PRC. Similarly, in the English language, the word "America" is used almost invariably to refer to the USA. The continents are referred to as North and South America, and collectively as the Americas - never "America".
I'm not advocating a move yet, but I would like to start a discussion that hopefully gathers more sources using "America" in different ways, so that we have a clearer picture. Right now I am sure that in ordinary speech "America" refers only to the USA. Google also reveals the same. The difference with the China scenario is that the USA is more commonly referred to as "the United States" or "the USA" or some other variant and less commonly as "America" in more formal published contexts, whereas "PRC" and "People's Republic of China" are less commonly used. Nonetheless, the key point is still that "America" almost always refers to the USA. Kraikk ( talk) 12:21, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
America is mostly referred to as The United States of America. America does not mean the continents North and South America, they are referred to as THE Americas and NOT America. America means The United States of America, NOT the continents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Montoya 83 ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, hopefully I am using Wikipedia correctly. I just want to mention that you are wrong. In Spanish America refers only and only to the continent. So, instead one could say, "in English America is mostly referred to as The United States of America; however, in Spanish America refers to as the continent, according to the historical and situational context the word is interchangeably used". How do I know this?, because myself and more than 350 million of people that lives in America and speak Spanish or Portuguese is telling you. We can prove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akikax ( talk • contribs) 22:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Finally, I would like to add that even though this is English language Wikipedia (so far) the word America is the same for both languages. Therefore, I fair and real solution to this problem would be to show two links within the America page. One for the ones referring to America as the continent and one for the ones referring to America as one country. So, if I go to Google and search for America, this Wiki page appears showing to links. One for America (Continent), America (The USA). Everybody happy!!! Come'on guys it is not so difficult, and I am right... I can prove it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akikax ( talk • contribs) 22:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
America is mostly referred as "The United States of America". How can you prove this? America, the continent where I live, as there is not such continent "The Americas or Americas" has more than one country. Some examples are: Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Argentina, Uruguay. Here, in all these countries America is referred as "America" our continent. The "United States of America" is the USA period. The only people "in the world" referring to "The United State of America" as America are the USA citizens which is incorrect. If French people were to refer themselves as "Europe" that is OK; however, this does not make the rest of the European countries to be "The Europeas". It is just wrong. Again, I can tell you that America is mostly referred as the continent America and this what should stated on this page. I can prove it... I can send you legal historical documents that proves my point. What do you have? Additionally, please try to be imparcial and objective, if you were to live in Chile, how would you call The USA, "America", hey... you cannot as you are already in America the continent. Sorry, if it so hard to understand... (however if it is, this would explain the Miss USA's answers...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akikax ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Guys, please, based on the following information let's try to find an agreement point here: In all Spanish texts America is the continent, in all English-USA texts America is the country. We need to have different versions to explain the word America according to the language and situation. Or you could simple add this explanation to the Wiki America text. English-USA text books referred to The USA as America because of historical reasons (I will not argue this point anymore, it is hopeless) and Spanish-all-America and English-Canada texts refers to America as the continent. Again, is it possible to include this into Wiki page of America. This is correct and I can prove it. And please, stop citing Google as reference and USA-texts as reference as, precisely, they were written or belong to "America" or as it is correct The USA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akikax ( talk • contribs) 22:25, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
English doesn't belong to one country. It's a language spoken worldwide, including by those who communicate with non-native English speakers. An encyclopedia should stand for History and Amerigo Vespucci was a sailor hired by the Portuguese. America is, therefore, the name of the whole continent. If you don't accept this definition, then at least an encyclopedia should at least contain such historic background. I am, therefore, in favor of the page how it is today. Just one comment: Brazilians, who don't speak Spanish but Portuguese, also refer to the continent as America. If I'm speaking English with a non-American (which happens quite often), I'll refer to the continent as America. Period. Jgsodre ( talk) 16:05, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 7 |
There are currently THREE FULL TALK PAGES (2 archives and this one), and 95% of the comments are of redirecting this to the good old US of A.--Kevin1gamer 01:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevin1gamer ( talk • contribs)
In the UK, I was brought up to say "America" as USA, but I now consider America to be whole continent. 78.150.183.177 ( talk) 10:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Most people who speak English, refer to the United States as "America". Citizens of the United States as "Americans". The opinions of people who do not speak English natively should be moot here. As they can call it whatever they like in the Portugese or French or Spanish Article. Point is, those who speak English, in an overwhelming majority refer to the United States of America as "America".
So, at least list United States of America on top. As that is the most common reference to the word America.
This whole page just smells of PC liberalism. Neutrality alert. Lets take away America's name and take the first word out of North America and South America and call them both America. Lets call Brazillians "Americans" even though they do not think as such. Mexicans call themselves Mexicans, not Americans. And Canadians call themselves Canadians.
Come on folks, this is crap. America is the United States of America in English and a small minority of people who happen to write wikipedia articles are attempting to change people's perception of how the word is used.
I can agree for a compromise on putting USA on top. That should be first on the damned list. 24.217.92.232 ( talk) 17:32, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Colombia, or the English Columbia, actually refers to the entire "New World," so I can't see why one country should monopolize the name. I hope you see my sarcasm. A lot of non-native English speakers seem to come here with an agenda. But the usage of "America" to refer to the USA seems fairly standard throughout the native English speaking world, not only in the USA. As this is English-language Wikipedia, I think we should stick with the English-language convention. 98.221.132.86 ( talk) 07:06, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Here's an option for finding out how the readership is actually using this page:
I'm not an avid Wikipedian, so I'm not very brushed up on Wikipedia rules and proceedings, but I find this whole argument completely nonsensical.
Now clearly, the "slang" definition has not entirely taken over the Wikipedian definition, because I am redirected to the disambiguation page and not the nation; however, it is still wrong. I suggest two options which should be enough for both sides, but favors the correct version of the term:
(NOTE #1: We would also move the current disambiguation article for "America" to "America (disambiguation)" in both cases)
(NOTE #2: There would either be a Distinguish or About template linking to United States at the top of the main article in both cases, beside a Other uses template.)
I'm not sure how to initiate a vote on this, so if anyone else wishes to do so, or comment, go right ahead.
Ericleb01 (
talk)
18:55, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
I think is funny that North and South America are "The Americas", and North and South Korea are Korea and not "The Koreas". I think we should move Americas to "America" and the current America article to America (disambiguation).
And the top of the new America article with something like:
This article is about the lands of the Western hemisphere. For other uses, see America (disambiguation). -- 200.121.150.214 ( talk) 07:06, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
I think this is more a "US English" usage/problem, because they want to reserve the America name for them.-- 200.121.150.214 ( talk) 22:24, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Typing in the word "America" should automatically send you to this page United States of America. What is up with the Americas and all that other stuff? If they type in "Americas" then that one can go the continent, but America is America. I've never heard anyone in English saying "I'm from America" if they are not from the US. Please make the neccessary arrangements so that Wikipedians may find what they're looking for faster and easier. Thank you, ( 209.7.171.66 15:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC))
Typing in "America" should NOT send you to the United States of America page. America is the whole continent. A person from Manaos, Brazil is as American as one from Atlanta, USA. The fact that there are very many English-speakers who call America only the USA, it does not make it right at all. This problem has to do with the unfortunate lack of education in the USA towards the rest of the world. So, to make it short. America is the entire continent, from Alaska all the way down to Chile and Argentina. Keep in mind that by the time the name was given, it was actually focused on the southern lands, given that the British colonies arrived some time later than the Spanish and Portuguese conquerors. 00:16, 21 October 2008 (GMT+1) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoffmannm ( talk • contribs)
You waste your time. This same discussion was made several times. This article will be left unchanged in the end. Oh, and I personally disagree with the America is USA thing. -- Shadowy Crafter 00:27, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
America was the name given to the New continent discovered by Columbus, after some years the name was taken by the USA because they couldn't take a name of their own. I think it is good that both options are open at wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.166.136.118 ( talk) 19:21, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
First of all, it is obvious that almost everyone whining about "America" somehow, against all logic and rational reasoning, referring to the entire Western Hemisphere is not a native speaker of English and therefore should stick to their own language's wikipedia and refrain from attempting to force their bizarre point of view on the English version. But on to my main point, to those arguing that North and South America are actually one single continent called "America", I ask you to fire up google image and actually look at a map of the world for the first time in your life: now tell me, how in the fucking hell can you argue that Europe and Asia are two continents, whereas North and South America are one? Nature had them literally dangling from each other by a thread, and the Panama Canal snipped it. Europe and Asia are, unarguably, a single landmass, and Asia and Africa's canal border is much, much longer than the Isthmus of Panama. Under your logic the planet Earth hosts four continents: America, Australia, Antarctica, and Eurasiafrica. I, personally, am reasonably certain that there are seven. Wormwoodpoppies ( talk) 02:24, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
From what I've seen semantically across the South American Wikipedia pages, a nation's name is designated as the page title, not its system of governmental conglomeration:
Bolivia, officially The Plurinational State of Bolivia (Spanish: Estado Plurinacional de Bolivia
Argentina, officially the Argentine Republic[5] (Spanish: República Argentina,
Brazil (Portuguese: Brasil), officially the Federative Republic of Brazil (Portuguese: República Federativa do Brasil)
Chile, officially the Republic of Chile (Spanish: RepChile.ogg República de Chile)
Colombia (IPA: /kəˈlʌmbɪə/), officially the Republic of Colombia (Spanish: República de Colombia.ogg República de Colombia
Ecuador (IPA: /ˈɛkwədɔr/), officially the Republic of Ecuador (Spanish: República del Ecuador
Guyana (pronounced /ɡaɪˈænə/ or /ɡiːˈɑːnə/), officially the Co-operative Republic of Guyana and previously known as British Guiana
Paraguay, officially the Republic of Paraguay (Spanish: República del Paraguay
Peru (Spanish: Perú, Quechua: Piruw, Aymara: Piruw), officially the Republic of Peru
Suriname[2] (Dutch: Suriname; Sranan Tongo: Sranan), officially the Republic of Suriname, is a country in northern South America.
Uruguay, (official full name in Spanish: República Oriental del Uruguay; Spanish pronunciation: [reˈpuβlika oɾjenˈtal ðel uɾuˈɣwai], Eastern Republic of Uruguay
Venezuela (pronounced /ˌvɛnɨˈzweɪlə/ or /ˌvɛnɨˈzwɛlə/; Spanish pronunciation: [beneˈswela]), officially the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela (Spanish: República Bolivariana de Venezuela), is a country on the northern coast of South America.
All of these nations are called by their name. Why is America called by the way it is formed? - The United States? Of where?? These nations are all republics, but we still refer to them by their name. Whether anyone likes the fact that some old white guy chose the continent's name (also the brain-child of some white guy) as the nation's seems irrelevant. To be perfectly logical about this, it is only right that America refer to just that, the nation, a union of states, together named America.
That, or I propose we refer to all of the South American Countries as The Republic. - R0bert ( talk) 03:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
America was considered one continent. Before the Panama Canal the Americas, North America and South America, were actually just "America" - If you look at the naming of the Country - you'll see an alternative was calling it the "United States of Columbia" - Which also refers to the continent discovered by Columbus or Vespucci.-- Keerlls ton 18:27, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
United States school children are taught that Columbus discovered their country: "America", but actually, Columbus never discovered or set foot in what is now the United States. Columbus discovered America, but the America which signifies the entire Western Hemisphere, and which consists of all lands from Canada to Chile/Argentina. In all of Latin America, the term America refers to the entire Western Hemisphere and never to the United States. On the other hand, in many Latin countries the term "American", may refer, depending on the context, to belonging to or relating to, either, the entire Western Hemisphere or to the United States. In the name of The Organization of American States, for example, the term American alludes to all the countries of the Western Hemisphere. In Europe, Just as no one refers to "the Europes", because of there is a Western Europe and an Eastern Europe, in Latin America, America is viewed as one geographical mass, even though it may be further broken down into North, Central, South, Caribbean etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.173.34.176 ( talk) 20:02, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Here's an email from someone who believes strongly that "America" should not be construed as [globally] referring to the US. I've encouraged him to respond here directly.
> Hi Wiki... > > While looking for America, i encounter this: > > "Use of the term America may be ambiguous, as it can > refer to either this entire landmass or just the > United States of America." - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas > > I do not agree with that since, i live in Costa Rica - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_rica - Wich is a > Country in central America. and here in my country and > most of the rest of America Excluding the U.S.A and > CANADA, we call america as a CONTINENT not a country. > > Please can you change a part of that paragraph, since > not all ppl consider America as a Country... > > indeed its important to us to remeber and know AMERICA > just as a continent, giving the term the flexibility > to also refer to U.S.A, is to desacredit the others > nations living in the continent. > > so please i will fell happier if you could change that > part of the article to: > > "Use of the term America may be ambiguous, as it can > refer to either this entire landmass" > > it will give to all of us, residents of AMERICA more > neutrality :D > > THX
As a Canadian, I can say that I've always considered it incorrect to refer to the U.S. as simply "America". However, it is correct to refer to its citizens as "Americans". It's kinda a double standard. I wouldn't say that the majority of the English speaking world would refer to the U.S. as simply "America", either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.68.36.25 ( talk) 00:24, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
The purpose of the phrases attached to the entries on disambiguation pages (see WP:MOSDAB) is to assist readers determine which of the entries contain the information they are looking for. The two entries as they currently are:
It would be clear to most readers that the second is where to go to read about the country consisting of 50 states between Canada and Mexico. It is more unclear what the first one is. Since it is unclear, the reader will have to either scan through the entire page to figure out by process of elimination or click through - both unnecessary if we simply put in several words here to distinguish it from the other entries.
The downside of putting more words in here? Too many words would make the page as a whole more difficult to navigate through as you try to find other things, but I believe the few words I am about to restore from my previous edit don't do that. I don't quite understand the criteria given against it. Both entries are being treated equally: provide enough information to let the reader know enough to see if the page is the one they are looking for. (John User:Jwy talk) 23:01, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
The long held and broad consensus at WP:MOSDAB suggests that clarity for an entire disambiguation page is improved by the shortest (with some exceptions) disambiguating phrase that explains how that entry is different from the others so the reader can choose the one they are looking for. I agree with Propaniac that USA is sufficiently differentiated from the other entries without further description. I MIGHT accept something as simple as ", the country," but I can't think of what else someone would honestly think that article is about, whereas "The Americas" among a bunch of different uses of the term America is at least more ambiguous that USA and I would suggest we put, at least, ", the continents" on that one to make it clear. "The Americas, the continents" and "the United States of America" - to me - are equally (i.e. "consistently") clear in the context I describe. (John User:Jwy talk) 19:55, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm still confused as to what the big deal is. You want to add a description to the second...great. So why can't we also add a description to the first? The only reasoning I'm seeing so far is a concern for "cluttering up the page unnecessarily". Is that honestly what all the reluctance is about? You're assuming from your own perspective (most of you are residents of the U.S.) that everybody already knows what "the United States of America" is. I'd assume, from my own perspective (having taken 1st Grade geography), that everybody would know what "the Americas" is. But there's simply no way one can credibly assume these things. If the purpose here is to aid the navigator through further indication, then I don't understand the arguments that have been presented so far, or the reluctance to do exactly that with all entries. Night w ( talk) 04:31, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Its not a "big deal," but it is "big" enough that I am reluctant to withdraw simply from being exhausted from the discussions - especially when I believe my arguments are consistent with consensus, both with WP:MOSDAB and a budding consensus here. "Why the big deal" could also apply to an insistence on "either-or-neither."
I am not claiming that people will not understand that "The Americas" may mean the continents, just that it reasonably applies to the plural of other items which are on this page. I also assume that most users of the English Wikipedia will know that United States of America is a country - or at least will know that it is (or is not) the article they were looking for when they entered "America." Again, the goal of the disambiguating phrases is not to completely explain the article referenced, but to enable the reader to distinguish the articles from each other. Longer bits of unnecessary text make it hard to scan the page to do this.
The other pages you mention either 1) have articles that require careful description to distinguish them from one another or 2) have unnecessary text. The "right amount" depends on the term involved and the articles that might possibly be the desired target of readers entering the term. Each term has its own requirements. (John User:Jwy talk) 16:53, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
The second seems absurd to me. I suppose the first might to you. Not to me in the context of a page with a bunch of other "America" references. (John User:Jwy talk) 07:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for going back and returning that to my attention. I had triggered on the last line and not read above it carefully. "Similar structure and comparable content" are means to something else, I think. I focus on optimizing these pages for navigation and in some cases similar structure and content can help with navigation, sometimes not. Its not a contest for respect or "proper treatment" for the individual topics, its the navigation. On some pages (I've given up trying to do anything on the India disambiguation page, for example), the topics are sufficiently controversial for a variety of reasons and consensus could only be arrived by reducing some of the navigational efficiency (or bending the guidelines INTENDED for that) in favor of this sort of balance. I naively considered these terms not in that category. I am proved wrong. As I don't particularly care that these are (non-navigationally) treated equally and I still believe - for navigational purposes - the USA entry does not require further disambiguation, my preference is still option 1. But if it falls into this other category, for me it goes from becoming "not such a big deal" to "let's keep the phrases short" if there are any at all. Am I making sense? (John User:Jwy talk) 17:53, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
My preference:
I'd be fine with:
I wouldn't object to similar longer phrases if they don't get too long. I'm not sure what other editors would say. We would need to make it clear that the edit is "contentious" and is a compromise of navigational efficiency to strong opinions based on the content. My primary concerns are 1) Americas gets its (what I still believe is) required disambiguating phrase and 2) we keep the page navigational efficient. (John User:Jwy talk) 21:39, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
So is it ok to put these phrases in, or are we still debating? The only number to appear in everybody's preferences in the poll below is #3. Night w ( talk) 21:39, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I hope nobody minds if I start a simple straw poll in an attempt to establish consensus. Here are the four possible options, as I see them:
If you have a preference, I request that you express it below, rating your preferred options in the order you would support them, from most to least.
Can someone literate me? Since when in history has the phrase "The Americas" has been used? Since I'm little I have been teached the group of continents in the western Hemisphere that being North & South America are called America. That also seems to be true in some other 100+ different languages, as a matter of fact, only recently I have seen the phrase "The Americas". For me, that phrase is not in my dictionary as I don't know anything by the name "The Americas". Ignoring teachings one can, by logic reasoning, find that the name for the group of continents is in fact America. The United States of.... something called America. North America, the Northern Part of something called America. South America, the southern part of something called America. When was "The Americas" invented, is something I don't know. Because of this 5 year old reasoning I conclude that the words a top of the article, that it should be disambiguation anyways, should say America & The United States of America in that way, in that order. Although I believe it should redirect to America the group of continents and a top should say "For the United States of America click here". Why? It may be popular that it should direct to the US, but, is incorrect. Many Universities despise the use of Wikipedia because people can put whatever they think is correct as this article has shown us. Douken ( talk) 21:25, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
In the English language, in its many varieties, America is used predominantly to refer to the USA. It is only occasionally used to refer to its other historic, foreign language or geographic uses. I'm not putting a value judgment here on any one country in North or South America (the continents) owning the name. This disambiguation page is wrong when it says as the 1st point of order that America usually refers to 'the Americas'. I have attempted to correct this and it has been reverted by a number of people. Why cannot the USA be listed as the 1st and most common use of this word? This is what happens when you use this word in the English language.
In
American (word) The following sentence is used:
In modern English, "American" generally refers to the United States, and in the U.S. itself this usage is almost universal.
. This is confirmed again in Americas where a similar sentence is used:
America may be ambiguous in English, as it is more commonly used to refer to the United States of America.
. What is wrong with making this page's lead disambiguation say at least:
America usually refers to:
- The United States of America
America may also refer to:
- The Americas
Ozdaren ( talk) 23:10, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
The most common use for the word America in the English language is to refer to the United State of America. A very much less common use is to refer to the continents. The continents are refered to as North and South America, occasionally in a combined way as 'the Americas'. It is not the only use of America and indeed in foreign languages it is perhaps not used primarily in that way at all. The only divided usage seems to be on Wikipedia. It is quite clear that in countries where English is the 1st language America primarily refers to the USA. Google it... Why therefore should the English W/P not reflect this usage? Ozdaren ( talk) 09:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi Night w. Most common and less common is what I said (ie when you speak to someone and say America, they initially assume you are talking about the USA unless a different context is established). I mentioned that the usage I believe is correct is used by the majority of English as a first language speakers. Thanks for the advice on dictionaries and encylodpaedias Ozdaren ( talk) 23:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
What is the meaning of the word OF in the sentence UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?.
"America" shouldn't redirect here. When speaking English, the term "America" refers to the United States. I guarantee that at least 99% of Wikipedia users who search for "America" click through to the United States article. It doesn't matter that other languages use "America" to refer to "the Americas." This ih the English language Wikipedia. This is absolute bollocks. 76.219.170.8 ( talk) 22:29, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
I'll second that note. If you speak English natively, and you use the word "America" you are referring to the United States. Also, North and South America are two continents if anyone wants to bring up that argument. Come on, can't we even call it what we call it on an English encyclopedia anymore? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.217.45.223 ( talk) 06:11, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian ( talk) 14:46, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
America → America (disambiguation) – This move would allow the term America to redirect to United States, per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The argument has been made that the term "America" refers to the combined North and South American landmass as well as to the United States of America. But this is not the referent for any of the top results obtained by googling America -wikipedia. (The top Latin American related result I noticed was on page 3.) The results from Bing are similar. (The top Latin result is No. 11.) Kauffner ( talk) 14:05, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Given that the People's Republic of China page was moved to China, due substantially to the current modern usage of the term "China", I think the move of the United States of America page to this page is deserving of reconsideration, the recently closed requested move discussion notwithstanding. A quick glance through the China discussion reveals that the admins and editors who supported the move based their opinion largely on the common use of "China" to refer to the PRC. Similarly, in the English language, the word "America" is used almost invariably to refer to the USA. The continents are referred to as North and South America, and collectively as the Americas - never "America".
I'm not advocating a move yet, but I would like to start a discussion that hopefully gathers more sources using "America" in different ways, so that we have a clearer picture. Right now I am sure that in ordinary speech "America" refers only to the USA. Google also reveals the same. The difference with the China scenario is that the USA is more commonly referred to as "the United States" or "the USA" or some other variant and less commonly as "America" in more formal published contexts, whereas "PRC" and "People's Republic of China" are less commonly used. Nonetheless, the key point is still that "America" almost always refers to the USA. Kraikk ( talk) 12:21, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
America is mostly referred to as The United States of America. America does not mean the continents North and South America, they are referred to as THE Americas and NOT America. America means The United States of America, NOT the continents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Montoya 83 ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, hopefully I am using Wikipedia correctly. I just want to mention that you are wrong. In Spanish America refers only and only to the continent. So, instead one could say, "in English America is mostly referred to as The United States of America; however, in Spanish America refers to as the continent, according to the historical and situational context the word is interchangeably used". How do I know this?, because myself and more than 350 million of people that lives in America and speak Spanish or Portuguese is telling you. We can prove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akikax ( talk • contribs) 22:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Finally, I would like to add that even though this is English language Wikipedia (so far) the word America is the same for both languages. Therefore, I fair and real solution to this problem would be to show two links within the America page. One for the ones referring to America as the continent and one for the ones referring to America as one country. So, if I go to Google and search for America, this Wiki page appears showing to links. One for America (Continent), America (The USA). Everybody happy!!! Come'on guys it is not so difficult, and I am right... I can prove it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akikax ( talk • contribs) 22:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
America is mostly referred as "The United States of America". How can you prove this? America, the continent where I live, as there is not such continent "The Americas or Americas" has more than one country. Some examples are: Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Argentina, Uruguay. Here, in all these countries America is referred as "America" our continent. The "United States of America" is the USA period. The only people "in the world" referring to "The United State of America" as America are the USA citizens which is incorrect. If French people were to refer themselves as "Europe" that is OK; however, this does not make the rest of the European countries to be "The Europeas". It is just wrong. Again, I can tell you that America is mostly referred as the continent America and this what should stated on this page. I can prove it... I can send you legal historical documents that proves my point. What do you have? Additionally, please try to be imparcial and objective, if you were to live in Chile, how would you call The USA, "America", hey... you cannot as you are already in America the continent. Sorry, if it so hard to understand... (however if it is, this would explain the Miss USA's answers...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akikax ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Guys, please, based on the following information let's try to find an agreement point here: In all Spanish texts America is the continent, in all English-USA texts America is the country. We need to have different versions to explain the word America according to the language and situation. Or you could simple add this explanation to the Wiki America text. English-USA text books referred to The USA as America because of historical reasons (I will not argue this point anymore, it is hopeless) and Spanish-all-America and English-Canada texts refers to America as the continent. Again, is it possible to include this into Wiki page of America. This is correct and I can prove it. And please, stop citing Google as reference and USA-texts as reference as, precisely, they were written or belong to "America" or as it is correct The USA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akikax ( talk • contribs) 22:25, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
English doesn't belong to one country. It's a language spoken worldwide, including by those who communicate with non-native English speakers. An encyclopedia should stand for History and Amerigo Vespucci was a sailor hired by the Portuguese. America is, therefore, the name of the whole continent. If you don't accept this definition, then at least an encyclopedia should at least contain such historic background. I am, therefore, in favor of the page how it is today. Just one comment: Brazilians, who don't speak Spanish but Portuguese, also refer to the continent as America. If I'm speaking English with a non-American (which happens quite often), I'll refer to the continent as America. Period. Jgsodre ( talk) 16:05, 4 January 2012 (UTC)