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Alternative medicine is a very broad term for any method that seeks to prevent or heal disease through methods that have not yet been proven to work by peer-reviewed scientific studies. Any method that claims to provide healing without a literature of such studies is outside the mainstream of conventional medical practice.
This is wrong.
I believe that mainstream conventional medicine is based on science. However, I do not believe a useful definition of conventional medicine is whether it has been proven (whatever that means) by peer reviewed scientific studies. Rather, there are a range of factors, which I might enumerate as:
I agree with you that treatment of individuals cannot be run as peer reviewed science: that's my point. For example, the seperation of adult Siamese twins is very complex, and the procedures involved are unique to each case. While the procedures are based on science, at root, it is not true to say that they are proven by peer reviewed scientific studies - that's too strong. And, as noted in the para below on evidence-based medicine, up until comparatively recently much of medicine was not directly based on scientific evidence.
Another example: there is ongoing debate within medicine as to whether regular screening is effective in reducing breast cancer rates. There have been many studies, and last I heard, scientists didn't know. But breast cancer screening is not alternative medicine! It's based on science, but not proven by science - or at least, not yet. Martin 00:39, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
So, would you agree with me that while "alternative" medicine is (perhaps substantially) less firmly grounded in science than conventional medicine, this is not what defines it? My feeling is the definition of "alternative" medicine lies chiefly in its acceptance by the mainstream medical community - and the correlation with scientific rigour is a consequence of that, rather than the definition in and of itself. Martin 23:26, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Chemotherapy is potentially lethal. Discussion at Talk:Chemotherapy.
This article is not objective!!! This article is totally biased. You had a totally objective version of this article, but you chose to post the biased version. The medical disclaimer around is missing too. Mr-Natural-Health 17:43, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Mr-Natural-Health has just wrote a series of offensive statements to me on my User page, by admitting that he is a Nazi. He is totally out of control. Can some please ban him, please? This is not only not funny, it is scary. Please see the discussions about him on his user page; the consensus is that he needs to be banned. RK
I have removed the following vague and useless claims:
Social critic Ivan Ilich believes that Western and alternative medical practices are generally equally effective, for two reasons. First, Western practices are more effective at dealing with illnesses caused by microbes, whereas alternative practices are more effective at dealing with illnesses that are psychosomatic.
Ilich holds that Western and alternative practices are equally effective at dealing with illnesses that are self-limiting.
Im am upset that RK and many other people are dismissing "alternative medicine" as a wacko and unbased practice. It is an ancient practice and is frequently used to complement a conventional medicinal treatment. It sometimes works when mainstream medicine fails, although a lot of times mainstream medicine is the only choice. It isn't always used as a cure. Many times, such procedures as accupuncture is administered to successfully relieve pain without side effects that many modern medicines have. Alexandros 00:27, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I think RK's specific point is right: we can't assert "It sometimes works when mainstream medicine fails" - rather, we would have to attribute that point of view to a named advocate. In terms of evidence, I suggest that the best place for detailed evidence for (and against) individual techniques (whether alternative or conventional) is on the relevant articles - it's yet another case where the best thing to resolve disagreement is to go to a higher level of detail. Martin 18:13, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Mr-Natural-Health offers this article to think about:
Comment: What struck me about this study was the reason why "Most patients visited their doctors[:] ... pain, commonly back pain, headache or pain in arms or legs." Pain management is precisely what published research has shown that alternative medicine is good for. Mr-Natural-Health 23:02, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Every comment I make is edited. RK deleted the complete citation. There is nothing ridiculous about common knowledge, provided of course you happen to track health research 365 days of the year like I have done for two years. Kind of makes me an expert on the subject, don't it? I do not believe in howling at the moon. Everything I say about AM is backed by published research.
Cheers. Mr-Natural-Health 11:29, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Anonymous writes "Alterntive Medicine works, but of course!"
Allais G, De Lorenzo C, Quirico PE. Acupuncture in the prophylactic treatment of migraine without aura: a comparison with flunarizine. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12390610&dopt=Abstract Headache. 2002 Oct;42(9):855-61. PMID 12390610
Acupuncture is reported effective for treating migraine headaches without visual disturbances. 12.77.32.49 19:51, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Most scientists would not dispute that acupuncture has some real pain control benefits, nor would RK. This is no small point! It is the only point. The other concerns of RK towards alternative medicine are totally irrelevant, in my opinion, towards this article under dispute.-- Mr-Natural-Health 23:25, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Precisely what is wrong with my comment:
"Critiquing alternative medicine in general should be equated to howling at the moon since in the real world only specific branches of alternative medicine exist."
It is factually 100% correct.
The present presentation of Alternative medicine is not objective, period. It is totally slanted to disrespect something that is totally legal in most localities.
When will you correct the obious distortion to this article, if I am not allowed to correct it?-- Mr-Natural-Health 18:54, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I will now proceed to remove one instance of the existing distortion in Alternative medicine. Let us see, how long my netural edit will last?-- Mr-Natural-Health 19:21, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Okay, have it your way. I will now move selectively support for alternative medicine out of these sections and put it where it belongs under support for alternative medicine.-- Mr-Natural-Health 19:50, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
As I said in the edit summary: I don't want to be quoted in the article, in part because I'm no expert in the area. Also, you misunderstood the quote of mine: It is a semantic critique of the existence of the concept of "alternative medicine". I think it is worthless to talk about medicine in terms of its popularity, and therefore think it is worthless to label a treatment as an "alternative medicine". -- snoyes 20:52, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
RK once again proves that an objective presentation of both sides of the issue is not possible in Wikipedia.-- Mr-Natural-Health 21:31, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
What precisely is wrong with:
"Ironically, support even comes from critics of alternative medicine. These critics are in effect making the claim that conventional medicine has and is in the process of assimilating alternative methods of treatments that have been proven to have worked from the various branches of alternative medicine.
Another way of stating this argument in support of alternative medicine comes from the definitions of complementary and integrative medicine. The boundary lines between alternative and mainstream medicine does in fact change over time. Methods once considered alternative may later be adopted by conventional medicine as physicians gradually incorporate alternative methods of treatment in their conventional medical practices."
And,is anything wrong with:
"A concluding argument in favor of alternative medicine can be made that the scientific basis of alternative is not as bad as the critics of alternative medicine represent it be because conventional medicine in reality has not been as science-based as it is publicly represented to be.[8] Physicians have openly admitted that their practice of traditional medicine was not science-base when they expressed a need for evidence-based medicine. The mere fact that evidence-based medicine is being promoted speaks historically to a practiced of medicine that was not completely based on science.
[8] Zalewski, Z. Importance of Philosophy of Science to the History of Medical Thinking. CMJ 1999; 40: 8-13. CMJ online"
I, as in myself, want an objective and complete presentation of the arugments that tend to support alternative medicine. Currently, RK is preventing this. And, I want to know why.-- Mr-Natural-Health 21:36, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Naturally, unless somebody explicitly points out what is precisely wrong here so that I can make a minor modification, I totally plan on re-adding my perfectly valid and neutral arguments.-- Mr-Natural-Health 21:44, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I have decided that in the future I will only be monitoring the Support for Alternative Medicine section. Supporters of Alternative medicine now have provided 9 general arguments in support of their positions. I will welcome any further improvements made to this section in the future, such as a reference for the social critic Ivan Ilich (perhaps a third party web page or a book reference). The other arguments are clearly articulated and most are well supported with references. I will continue to edit out any further attempts by the opposition to interject their POV into the support section. Personally, I do not care what the opposition writes, just as long as they stay out of the support section. I have not even read through all their criticisms and do not ever intend to do so.
The quality of the writing in the other sections will determine whether or not the public will rate this Alternative medicine article as professionally written or amateurish. Excess verbiage, redundant text, and POV interjected in any section other than support or criticism will only reflect badly upon Wikipedia. I have spent enough of my time editing the other sections.-- Mr-Natural-Health 22:49, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)
C'mon, I'm dying to see the peer reviewed scientific research for that. Heck, it'd be an improvement just to have a named advocate who makes that claim, which I don't see either. Martin 00:38, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
If this new written aritcle merge nonsense is nothing but an underhanded attempt to get rid of the arguments in support of Alternative medicine, I am here to add them back.-- Mr-Natural-Health 19:05, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
See Talk:Complementary and alternative medicine for a related discussion on a merge of this page with Complementary and alternative medicine.
68.167.191.104 00:01, 28 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Mr Natural Health mistakenly put the following in the section for support of alternative medicine:
The final response to the above criticisms is that the opposition primarily assumes that alternative medicine works by magic and equates all branches of alternative medicine with quackery and health fraud. Professionalized alternative medicine no more works by magic than do prescription medications possess magical curative powers. Quackery and health fraud is a legal matter where the law should be allowed to take its course. The opposition turns a blind eye to health fraud committed by conventional medicine. The list of very questionable conventional medical practices is quite long and includes such things as conventional hospitals soliciting the public to get expensive and totally unnecessary body scans, hormone replacement therapy, and annual mammograms.
Social critic Ivan Illich believes that Western and alternative medical practices are generally equally effective, for two reasons. First, Western practices are more effective at dealing with illnesses caused by microbes, whereas alternative practices are more effective at dealing with illnesses that are psychosomatic. Illich holds that Western and alternative practices are equally effective at dealing with illnesses that are self-limiting. (Illich 1976) In other words, Illich has suggested that conventional medicine treats illnesses that the human body would heal naturally all by itself without any form of treatment.
Adherents of alternative medicine claim that they only want to heal people; they have no interest in money or publicity. Thus they see no need to offer proof, and refuse to demonstrate their effectiveness in the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge offered by the James Randi Educational Foundation.
Some alternative treatment methods have been shown to be effective.
Edzard Ernst writes in the Medical Journal of Australia that: "About half the general population in developed countries uses complementary and alternative medicine (CAM). Yet many conventional healthcare professionals refuse to take CAM seriously.
A search on PubMed reveals that there are over 370,000 research papers classified as alternative medicine published since 1966 in the National Library of Medicine database (such as Kleijnen 1991, Linde 1997, Michalsen 2003, Gonsalkorale 2003, and Berga 2003). There are no publicly available statistics on exactly how many of these studies were controlled or double-blind peer-reviewed experiments. They were, however, all published in research journals recognized by Medline.
In another argument, the question of the effectiveness of various techniques used by practitioners of alternative medicine has to be considered independently for each method, as well as for each medical condition or disease treated. When exploring the individual branches of alternative medicine four questions need to be answered. The answers to these questions will reveal whether or not each branch of alternative medicine is mostly quackery or something that the public should seriously consider using.
In the United States, the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, a division of the National Institutes of Health, provides funding and other support for research in alternative medicine.
Some of the strongest support for the value of clinical experience in alternative medicine comes from conventional physicians who have voiced their criticisms of evidence-based medicine (Tonelli 2001, Downing 2003). These physicians while arguing about their need to apply population evidence to the patient standing before them are in effect supporting the value of eclectic branches of alternative medicine which place great value upon the clinical experience of the practitioner.
The boundary lines between alternative and mainstream medicine have changed over time. Methods once considered alternative have later been adopted by conventional medicine as physicians gradually incorporate effective branches of alternative medicine of treatment in their conventional medical practices. Supporters of alternative methods suggest that much of what is currently called alternative medicine will be similarly assimilated by the mainstream in the future.
An argument can be made that it is not so much a question of proving what is right about alternative medicine, but rather in pointing out what is specifically wrong with conventional medicine....
RK has once again has decided to singled handedly destroy the work of several people that took several weeks of discussions to create in Alternative medicine. I have supported with numerous references and citations every argument made in support of alternative medicine. RK has not supported a single one of his obviously POV comments. An article about a perfectly legal subject called alternative medicine should obviously be in support of it. Health Sciences and Medicine appear to be as poorly organized and written as is Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine currents suffers from the antics of RK and others who are unable to deal with the reality of alternative medicine. RK has been totally unable to articulate and support with references a rational argument against alternative medicine. Why doesn't RK try to clean up Health Sciences and Medicine rather than constantly work at destroying Alternative medicine? -- 12.77.6.54 15:12, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Alternative medicine is a very broad term for any method that seeks to prevent or heal disease through methods that have not yet been proven to work by peer-reviewed scientific studies. Any method that claims to provide healing without a literature of such studies is outside the mainstream of conventional medical practice.
This is wrong.
I believe that mainstream conventional medicine is based on science. However, I do not believe a useful definition of conventional medicine is whether it has been proven (whatever that means) by peer reviewed scientific studies. Rather, there are a range of factors, which I might enumerate as:
I agree with you that treatment of individuals cannot be run as peer reviewed science: that's my point. For example, the seperation of adult Siamese twins is very complex, and the procedures involved are unique to each case. While the procedures are based on science, at root, it is not true to say that they are proven by peer reviewed scientific studies - that's too strong. And, as noted in the para below on evidence-based medicine, up until comparatively recently much of medicine was not directly based on scientific evidence.
Another example: there is ongoing debate within medicine as to whether regular screening is effective in reducing breast cancer rates. There have been many studies, and last I heard, scientists didn't know. But breast cancer screening is not alternative medicine! It's based on science, but not proven by science - or at least, not yet. Martin 00:39, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
So, would you agree with me that while "alternative" medicine is (perhaps substantially) less firmly grounded in science than conventional medicine, this is not what defines it? My feeling is the definition of "alternative" medicine lies chiefly in its acceptance by the mainstream medical community - and the correlation with scientific rigour is a consequence of that, rather than the definition in and of itself. Martin 23:26, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Chemotherapy is potentially lethal. Discussion at Talk:Chemotherapy.
This article is not objective!!! This article is totally biased. You had a totally objective version of this article, but you chose to post the biased version. The medical disclaimer around is missing too. Mr-Natural-Health 17:43, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Mr-Natural-Health has just wrote a series of offensive statements to me on my User page, by admitting that he is a Nazi. He is totally out of control. Can some please ban him, please? This is not only not funny, it is scary. Please see the discussions about him on his user page; the consensus is that he needs to be banned. RK
I have removed the following vague and useless claims:
Social critic Ivan Ilich believes that Western and alternative medical practices are generally equally effective, for two reasons. First, Western practices are more effective at dealing with illnesses caused by microbes, whereas alternative practices are more effective at dealing with illnesses that are psychosomatic.
Ilich holds that Western and alternative practices are equally effective at dealing with illnesses that are self-limiting.
Im am upset that RK and many other people are dismissing "alternative medicine" as a wacko and unbased practice. It is an ancient practice and is frequently used to complement a conventional medicinal treatment. It sometimes works when mainstream medicine fails, although a lot of times mainstream medicine is the only choice. It isn't always used as a cure. Many times, such procedures as accupuncture is administered to successfully relieve pain without side effects that many modern medicines have. Alexandros 00:27, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I think RK's specific point is right: we can't assert "It sometimes works when mainstream medicine fails" - rather, we would have to attribute that point of view to a named advocate. In terms of evidence, I suggest that the best place for detailed evidence for (and against) individual techniques (whether alternative or conventional) is on the relevant articles - it's yet another case where the best thing to resolve disagreement is to go to a higher level of detail. Martin 18:13, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Mr-Natural-Health offers this article to think about:
Comment: What struck me about this study was the reason why "Most patients visited their doctors[:] ... pain, commonly back pain, headache or pain in arms or legs." Pain management is precisely what published research has shown that alternative medicine is good for. Mr-Natural-Health 23:02, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Every comment I make is edited. RK deleted the complete citation. There is nothing ridiculous about common knowledge, provided of course you happen to track health research 365 days of the year like I have done for two years. Kind of makes me an expert on the subject, don't it? I do not believe in howling at the moon. Everything I say about AM is backed by published research.
Cheers. Mr-Natural-Health 11:29, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Anonymous writes "Alterntive Medicine works, but of course!"
Allais G, De Lorenzo C, Quirico PE. Acupuncture in the prophylactic treatment of migraine without aura: a comparison with flunarizine. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12390610&dopt=Abstract Headache. 2002 Oct;42(9):855-61. PMID 12390610
Acupuncture is reported effective for treating migraine headaches without visual disturbances. 12.77.32.49 19:51, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Most scientists would not dispute that acupuncture has some real pain control benefits, nor would RK. This is no small point! It is the only point. The other concerns of RK towards alternative medicine are totally irrelevant, in my opinion, towards this article under dispute.-- Mr-Natural-Health 23:25, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Precisely what is wrong with my comment:
"Critiquing alternative medicine in general should be equated to howling at the moon since in the real world only specific branches of alternative medicine exist."
It is factually 100% correct.
The present presentation of Alternative medicine is not objective, period. It is totally slanted to disrespect something that is totally legal in most localities.
When will you correct the obious distortion to this article, if I am not allowed to correct it?-- Mr-Natural-Health 18:54, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I will now proceed to remove one instance of the existing distortion in Alternative medicine. Let us see, how long my netural edit will last?-- Mr-Natural-Health 19:21, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Okay, have it your way. I will now move selectively support for alternative medicine out of these sections and put it where it belongs under support for alternative medicine.-- Mr-Natural-Health 19:50, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
As I said in the edit summary: I don't want to be quoted in the article, in part because I'm no expert in the area. Also, you misunderstood the quote of mine: It is a semantic critique of the existence of the concept of "alternative medicine". I think it is worthless to talk about medicine in terms of its popularity, and therefore think it is worthless to label a treatment as an "alternative medicine". -- snoyes 20:52, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
RK once again proves that an objective presentation of both sides of the issue is not possible in Wikipedia.-- Mr-Natural-Health 21:31, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
What precisely is wrong with:
"Ironically, support even comes from critics of alternative medicine. These critics are in effect making the claim that conventional medicine has and is in the process of assimilating alternative methods of treatments that have been proven to have worked from the various branches of alternative medicine.
Another way of stating this argument in support of alternative medicine comes from the definitions of complementary and integrative medicine. The boundary lines between alternative and mainstream medicine does in fact change over time. Methods once considered alternative may later be adopted by conventional medicine as physicians gradually incorporate alternative methods of treatment in their conventional medical practices."
And,is anything wrong with:
"A concluding argument in favor of alternative medicine can be made that the scientific basis of alternative is not as bad as the critics of alternative medicine represent it be because conventional medicine in reality has not been as science-based as it is publicly represented to be.[8] Physicians have openly admitted that their practice of traditional medicine was not science-base when they expressed a need for evidence-based medicine. The mere fact that evidence-based medicine is being promoted speaks historically to a practiced of medicine that was not completely based on science.
[8] Zalewski, Z. Importance of Philosophy of Science to the History of Medical Thinking. CMJ 1999; 40: 8-13. CMJ online"
I, as in myself, want an objective and complete presentation of the arugments that tend to support alternative medicine. Currently, RK is preventing this. And, I want to know why.-- Mr-Natural-Health 21:36, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Naturally, unless somebody explicitly points out what is precisely wrong here so that I can make a minor modification, I totally plan on re-adding my perfectly valid and neutral arguments.-- Mr-Natural-Health 21:44, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I have decided that in the future I will only be monitoring the Support for Alternative Medicine section. Supporters of Alternative medicine now have provided 9 general arguments in support of their positions. I will welcome any further improvements made to this section in the future, such as a reference for the social critic Ivan Ilich (perhaps a third party web page or a book reference). The other arguments are clearly articulated and most are well supported with references. I will continue to edit out any further attempts by the opposition to interject their POV into the support section. Personally, I do not care what the opposition writes, just as long as they stay out of the support section. I have not even read through all their criticisms and do not ever intend to do so.
The quality of the writing in the other sections will determine whether or not the public will rate this Alternative medicine article as professionally written or amateurish. Excess verbiage, redundant text, and POV interjected in any section other than support or criticism will only reflect badly upon Wikipedia. I have spent enough of my time editing the other sections.-- Mr-Natural-Health 22:49, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)
C'mon, I'm dying to see the peer reviewed scientific research for that. Heck, it'd be an improvement just to have a named advocate who makes that claim, which I don't see either. Martin 00:38, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
If this new written aritcle merge nonsense is nothing but an underhanded attempt to get rid of the arguments in support of Alternative medicine, I am here to add them back.-- Mr-Natural-Health 19:05, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
See Talk:Complementary and alternative medicine for a related discussion on a merge of this page with Complementary and alternative medicine.
68.167.191.104 00:01, 28 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Mr Natural Health mistakenly put the following in the section for support of alternative medicine:
The final response to the above criticisms is that the opposition primarily assumes that alternative medicine works by magic and equates all branches of alternative medicine with quackery and health fraud. Professionalized alternative medicine no more works by magic than do prescription medications possess magical curative powers. Quackery and health fraud is a legal matter where the law should be allowed to take its course. The opposition turns a blind eye to health fraud committed by conventional medicine. The list of very questionable conventional medical practices is quite long and includes such things as conventional hospitals soliciting the public to get expensive and totally unnecessary body scans, hormone replacement therapy, and annual mammograms.
Social critic Ivan Illich believes that Western and alternative medical practices are generally equally effective, for two reasons. First, Western practices are more effective at dealing with illnesses caused by microbes, whereas alternative practices are more effective at dealing with illnesses that are psychosomatic. Illich holds that Western and alternative practices are equally effective at dealing with illnesses that are self-limiting. (Illich 1976) In other words, Illich has suggested that conventional medicine treats illnesses that the human body would heal naturally all by itself without any form of treatment.
Adherents of alternative medicine claim that they only want to heal people; they have no interest in money or publicity. Thus they see no need to offer proof, and refuse to demonstrate their effectiveness in the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge offered by the James Randi Educational Foundation.
Some alternative treatment methods have been shown to be effective.
Edzard Ernst writes in the Medical Journal of Australia that: "About half the general population in developed countries uses complementary and alternative medicine (CAM). Yet many conventional healthcare professionals refuse to take CAM seriously.
A search on PubMed reveals that there are over 370,000 research papers classified as alternative medicine published since 1966 in the National Library of Medicine database (such as Kleijnen 1991, Linde 1997, Michalsen 2003, Gonsalkorale 2003, and Berga 2003). There are no publicly available statistics on exactly how many of these studies were controlled or double-blind peer-reviewed experiments. They were, however, all published in research journals recognized by Medline.
In another argument, the question of the effectiveness of various techniques used by practitioners of alternative medicine has to be considered independently for each method, as well as for each medical condition or disease treated. When exploring the individual branches of alternative medicine four questions need to be answered. The answers to these questions will reveal whether or not each branch of alternative medicine is mostly quackery or something that the public should seriously consider using.
In the United States, the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, a division of the National Institutes of Health, provides funding and other support for research in alternative medicine.
Some of the strongest support for the value of clinical experience in alternative medicine comes from conventional physicians who have voiced their criticisms of evidence-based medicine (Tonelli 2001, Downing 2003). These physicians while arguing about their need to apply population evidence to the patient standing before them are in effect supporting the value of eclectic branches of alternative medicine which place great value upon the clinical experience of the practitioner.
The boundary lines between alternative and mainstream medicine have changed over time. Methods once considered alternative have later been adopted by conventional medicine as physicians gradually incorporate effective branches of alternative medicine of treatment in their conventional medical practices. Supporters of alternative methods suggest that much of what is currently called alternative medicine will be similarly assimilated by the mainstream in the future.
An argument can be made that it is not so much a question of proving what is right about alternative medicine, but rather in pointing out what is specifically wrong with conventional medicine....
RK has once again has decided to singled handedly destroy the work of several people that took several weeks of discussions to create in Alternative medicine. I have supported with numerous references and citations every argument made in support of alternative medicine. RK has not supported a single one of his obviously POV comments. An article about a perfectly legal subject called alternative medicine should obviously be in support of it. Health Sciences and Medicine appear to be as poorly organized and written as is Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine currents suffers from the antics of RK and others who are unable to deal with the reality of alternative medicine. RK has been totally unable to articulate and support with references a rational argument against alternative medicine. Why doesn't RK try to clean up Health Sciences and Medicine rather than constantly work at destroying Alternative medicine? -- 12.77.6.54 15:12, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)