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What is your thoughts on this suggestion? I felt like it would clarify it, as the alt-right isn't considered only about white nationalism. It's crazy that Milo Yiannopoulos, Lauren Southern, and the Jewish (!!!) coiner of the term could be considered white nationalists.
The alt-right is a loose group of right-wing activists that reject political correctness, feminism, globalism, egalitarianism, and multiculturalism. [1] [2] [3] Once considered a fringe element among the party, the faction saw significant and profound growth during Donald Trump's run for President of the United States and his Presidency. [4] [5] The movement is made up of right-wing populists, neoreactionaries, national anarchists and anarcho-capitalists, paleoconservatives, national syndicalists, anti-Zionists, paleolibertarians, white nationalists, and members of the men's rights movement. [3] [6] [7] More extreme elements include white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and fascists. [3]
The alt-right has had a significant influence on Republican thought in the United States, including using the Sailer Strategy for winning political support. This has been listed as a key reason for Trump's win in the 2016 election, due to Trump's massive gains among white men. [8] [9] The Trump administration also includes several figures who are associated with the alt-right, such as White House Chief Strategist Steve Bannon. [10] In 2016, Bannon described Breitbart as "the platform for the alt-right". [11]
Notable members of the alt-right include Steve Bannon, Richard B. Spencer, Lauren Southern, Jared Taylor, and Milo Yiannopoulos. Don1182 ( talk) 14:56, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm really not buying this. Your proposal does not reflect the viewpoint of the majority of reliable sources. If you'd like to start voting on stuff, start an RfC. (I think it's very funny you consider white nationalists as less extreme than white supremacists, and differentiate between neo-Nazis and fascists, but really don't think this would be supportable without bringing in something like Breitbart.) PeterTheFourth ( talk) 20:13, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
References
{{
cite news}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
I would like to do my "duplicate the lede to the article body, and then remove 75% of the references in the lede" change again. Are there objections to this? Power~enwiki ( talk) 20:15, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
It's still ridiculous that 48 references are in the lede. Are there any other objections to this? Power~enwiki ( talk) 07:14, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm working on a new lede on my sandbox page in an attempt to decrease the number of references in the lede to at most 15, and to improve its compliance with WP:NPOV. If you are unhappy with the current one, please suggest changes there. Power~enwiki ( talk) 23:42, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Instead of "Alt-right beliefs have been described as isolationist ...", to have "Alt-right beliefs have been stereotyped as isolationist ...".
The biggest NPOV problem with the lede is the synthesis. It takes the referenced statement that some members of the alt-right have some of these views, and attempts to imply that all members (or at least all prominent members) have all of these views. Power~enwiki ( talk) 00:20, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
There's no point arguing this point; withdrawn. Power~enwiki ( talk) 03:40, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
"She sees the alt-right as a product of a hopelessly cynical age, one defined by skepticism and alienation. On the right, she argues, young men have latched onto a burgeoning counterculture that rejects social taboos around race and gender. On the left, intellectual culture has become increasingly insular, creating space for reactionaries on the right."
I'm not sure any quotes from the Vox article are relevant here, but the book may be useful. Power~enwiki ( talk) 21:19, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
The first line of the article reads, abbreviated, "The alt-right is a group of people who reject x in favor of white nationalism."
This is a patently absurd statement in the context of an image like this. The term "alt-right" has been used to refer to much more than just ethnonationalists. There's other kinds of nationalists, civic nationalists in there, too. The current first line suggests none of this and instead implicitly paints anyone who's ever been called "alt-right" as being essentially racist.
That's silly!
There are elements of some (mostly very extreme) left wing populist economic policies in conjunction with its' mostly socially right-far right policies among some alt-right figures, partially due in part to its' decentralized leadership, I was wondering if this should be mentioned at all in the article?
For Example:
"Single-payer socialism for basic stuff. On top of that could be a free market for more advanced, elective, boutique stuff." - Richard Spencer in response to what he would like obamacare to be replaced with on Twitter.
"Trump Aide Steve Bannon Apparently Wants to Impose a 44% Tax Bracket" - Time describing a statement Bannon made. It should also be noted that Bannon reportedly calls himself a "leninist".
The Daily Stormer Endorses Jeremy Corbyn - Andrew Anglin's sort of right wing manifesto site endorsed Jeremy Corbyn, perhaps as an "anti-establishment" sort of move.
Tariffs: Why Isn't Trump Cool Like Fellow Protectionist Alexander Hamilton? - Steve Sailery echoes a sort of economic protectionism in conjunction with anti-immigration philosophy that is common within the alt-right community.
These are just a few, and this isn't in any way meant to sound biased towards those on the left, or the right. Just a trend I have noticed. I will state that most of these beliefs work in conjunction with their stances on social issues, but then again, many alt-righters self proclaim themselves to champion "libertarian" economic ideas. Quite interesting to say the least.
Allinallisallweallare19 ( talk) 02:29, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
We could maybe add this:
According to a Pew Research Center survey, among American adults in December 2016, back then 54% said they had heard nothing at all about the alt-right, 28% a little, and 18% a lot. [1]
The Etymology section would be a good fit.
-- 87.177.122.220 ( talk) 11:49, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm calling an RfC on the lede tomorrow. I expect to have 3 proposals: the current lede, a version of the lede on User:Power~enwiki/sandbox (which is still being edited at this time; your constructive changes are welcome), and User:Don1182's proposal from earlier on this talk page.
If you have changes you want to make to any of these or have a separate proposal of your own, suggest them by 17 July 2017 23:59GMT and I will try to include your feedback in the proposal. Power~enwiki ( talk) 03:38, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
Here's my (almost-finished) proposal. Power~enwiki ( talk) 06:57, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
The alt-right is a far-right political movement that rejects mainstream conservatism, promoted mainly through Internet activism. The term gained widespread use in the United States during the 2016 election to refer to some supporters of Donald Trump.
The term was popularized by white supremacist [1] Richard Spencer and his website Alternative Right. [2] It gained popularity through content on websites such as 4chan, Twitter, InfoWars, and Breitbart News. [3] It is strongly associated with certain online memes, such as Pepe the Frog.
The movement generally supports isolationism, nativism and protectionism, and opposes immigration, [3] multiculturalism and political correctness. It has been criticized for having prominent supporters who are antisemitic, [4] Islamophobic, [5] racist, [6] sexist [7] and homophobic. [8] It is also associated with fringe groups such as the men's rights movement and the neoreactionary movement.
During the 2016 presidential campaign, the alt-right strongly supported the Trump campaign. Hillary Clinton attacked the alt-right as "racist ideas ... anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-women ideas" and accused Donald Trump of taking the alt-right "mainstream". [9] The Trump administration includes several figures who are associated with the alt-right, such as White House Chief Strategist Steve Bannon. [10]
References
- ^ Wines, Michael; Saul, Stephanie (July 5, 2015). "White Supremacists Extend Their Reach Through Websites". The New York Times.
- ^ http://www.toqonline.com/blog/richard-spencer-launches-alternative-right/
- ^ a b "Breitbart News is “the platform for the alt-right,” boasts Stephen Bannon." Posner, Sarah (August 22, 2016). "How Donald Trump's New Campaign Chief Created an Online Haven for White Nationalists". Mother Jones. Retrieved November 13, 2016.
- ^ The Alt-Right's Antisemitism
- ^ Hassan, Adeel (September 23, 2016). "Candy, Hashtags and Hate". The New York Times.
- ^ How a white nationalist leader wants to go mainstream with his racist movement
- ^ "How the alt-right's sexism lures men into white supremacy".
- ^ Signorile, Michelangelo (September 21, 2016). "Donald Trump's Hate-Fueled, Alt-Right Army Hates 'Faggots' Too". The Huffington Post. Retrieved October 30, 2016.
- ^ http://www.npr.org/2016/08/26/491452721/the-history-of-the-alt-right
- ^ "The alt-right Leninist". www.newstatesman.com. Retrieved May 14, 2017.
Nearly all of the sources cited in this article are opinion-based far-left blogs that have no credibility whatsoever. It is so contaminated that it should be burned down and re-written. Examples:
https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/pg7jbv/men-are-creepy-new-study-confirms
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files
http://forward.com/news/national/348370/is-the-alt-right-reaching-out-to-jews-and-why/?attribution=articles-article-related-1-headline ("Turns out, the “alt-right” is a loose affiliation of racists and others haters including, but not limited to, white supremacists and anti-Semites.")
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Temennigru ( talk • contribs) 18:06, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
Exactly! Especially like that they claim ALT-right are anti-Semitic and then list that a Jewish person coined the phrase. I used to trust wickipedia - now I have to view anything I read on this site as suspect.
What an incredibly skewed and poorly written Propaganda article. Virginia1954 ( talk) 23:40, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
ie proofreading...you say Paul Gottfried first used 'alt-right' in 2008. Then you say Richard Spencer coined the term in 2010...you can't 'coin' a term that someone else already, er, invented 2 years prior. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Niccast ( talk • contribs) 14:50, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Alt-left is a term coined by President Donald Trump in reference to the radicalized counter protesters that erupted into violence during a permitted protest rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. [1] Speaking at Trump Tower in Manhattan, Trump questioned "What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, the alt-right?"
Members of the alt-left typically do not support free speech and engage in premeditated rioting, fighting and demonstrating against persons with opinions that differ from theirs. Let us eat lettuce ( talk) 22:49, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
References
New article: [2] with a definition and style-usage guidelines.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 |
What is your thoughts on this suggestion? I felt like it would clarify it, as the alt-right isn't considered only about white nationalism. It's crazy that Milo Yiannopoulos, Lauren Southern, and the Jewish (!!!) coiner of the term could be considered white nationalists.
The alt-right is a loose group of right-wing activists that reject political correctness, feminism, globalism, egalitarianism, and multiculturalism. [1] [2] [3] Once considered a fringe element among the party, the faction saw significant and profound growth during Donald Trump's run for President of the United States and his Presidency. [4] [5] The movement is made up of right-wing populists, neoreactionaries, national anarchists and anarcho-capitalists, paleoconservatives, national syndicalists, anti-Zionists, paleolibertarians, white nationalists, and members of the men's rights movement. [3] [6] [7] More extreme elements include white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and fascists. [3]
The alt-right has had a significant influence on Republican thought in the United States, including using the Sailer Strategy for winning political support. This has been listed as a key reason for Trump's win in the 2016 election, due to Trump's massive gains among white men. [8] [9] The Trump administration also includes several figures who are associated with the alt-right, such as White House Chief Strategist Steve Bannon. [10] In 2016, Bannon described Breitbart as "the platform for the alt-right". [11]
Notable members of the alt-right include Steve Bannon, Richard B. Spencer, Lauren Southern, Jared Taylor, and Milo Yiannopoulos. Don1182 ( talk) 14:56, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm really not buying this. Your proposal does not reflect the viewpoint of the majority of reliable sources. If you'd like to start voting on stuff, start an RfC. (I think it's very funny you consider white nationalists as less extreme than white supremacists, and differentiate between neo-Nazis and fascists, but really don't think this would be supportable without bringing in something like Breitbart.) PeterTheFourth ( talk) 20:13, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
References
{{
cite news}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
I would like to do my "duplicate the lede to the article body, and then remove 75% of the references in the lede" change again. Are there objections to this? Power~enwiki ( talk) 20:15, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
It's still ridiculous that 48 references are in the lede. Are there any other objections to this? Power~enwiki ( talk) 07:14, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm working on a new lede on my sandbox page in an attempt to decrease the number of references in the lede to at most 15, and to improve its compliance with WP:NPOV. If you are unhappy with the current one, please suggest changes there. Power~enwiki ( talk) 23:42, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Instead of "Alt-right beliefs have been described as isolationist ...", to have "Alt-right beliefs have been stereotyped as isolationist ...".
The biggest NPOV problem with the lede is the synthesis. It takes the referenced statement that some members of the alt-right have some of these views, and attempts to imply that all members (or at least all prominent members) have all of these views. Power~enwiki ( talk) 00:20, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
There's no point arguing this point; withdrawn. Power~enwiki ( talk) 03:40, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
"She sees the alt-right as a product of a hopelessly cynical age, one defined by skepticism and alienation. On the right, she argues, young men have latched onto a burgeoning counterculture that rejects social taboos around race and gender. On the left, intellectual culture has become increasingly insular, creating space for reactionaries on the right."
I'm not sure any quotes from the Vox article are relevant here, but the book may be useful. Power~enwiki ( talk) 21:19, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
The first line of the article reads, abbreviated, "The alt-right is a group of people who reject x in favor of white nationalism."
This is a patently absurd statement in the context of an image like this. The term "alt-right" has been used to refer to much more than just ethnonationalists. There's other kinds of nationalists, civic nationalists in there, too. The current first line suggests none of this and instead implicitly paints anyone who's ever been called "alt-right" as being essentially racist.
That's silly!
There are elements of some (mostly very extreme) left wing populist economic policies in conjunction with its' mostly socially right-far right policies among some alt-right figures, partially due in part to its' decentralized leadership, I was wondering if this should be mentioned at all in the article?
For Example:
"Single-payer socialism for basic stuff. On top of that could be a free market for more advanced, elective, boutique stuff." - Richard Spencer in response to what he would like obamacare to be replaced with on Twitter.
"Trump Aide Steve Bannon Apparently Wants to Impose a 44% Tax Bracket" - Time describing a statement Bannon made. It should also be noted that Bannon reportedly calls himself a "leninist".
The Daily Stormer Endorses Jeremy Corbyn - Andrew Anglin's sort of right wing manifesto site endorsed Jeremy Corbyn, perhaps as an "anti-establishment" sort of move.
Tariffs: Why Isn't Trump Cool Like Fellow Protectionist Alexander Hamilton? - Steve Sailery echoes a sort of economic protectionism in conjunction with anti-immigration philosophy that is common within the alt-right community.
These are just a few, and this isn't in any way meant to sound biased towards those on the left, or the right. Just a trend I have noticed. I will state that most of these beliefs work in conjunction with their stances on social issues, but then again, many alt-righters self proclaim themselves to champion "libertarian" economic ideas. Quite interesting to say the least.
Allinallisallweallare19 ( talk) 02:29, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
We could maybe add this:
According to a Pew Research Center survey, among American adults in December 2016, back then 54% said they had heard nothing at all about the alt-right, 28% a little, and 18% a lot. [1]
The Etymology section would be a good fit.
-- 87.177.122.220 ( talk) 11:49, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm calling an RfC on the lede tomorrow. I expect to have 3 proposals: the current lede, a version of the lede on User:Power~enwiki/sandbox (which is still being edited at this time; your constructive changes are welcome), and User:Don1182's proposal from earlier on this talk page.
If you have changes you want to make to any of these or have a separate proposal of your own, suggest them by 17 July 2017 23:59GMT and I will try to include your feedback in the proposal. Power~enwiki ( talk) 03:38, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
Here's my (almost-finished) proposal. Power~enwiki ( talk) 06:57, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
The alt-right is a far-right political movement that rejects mainstream conservatism, promoted mainly through Internet activism. The term gained widespread use in the United States during the 2016 election to refer to some supporters of Donald Trump.
The term was popularized by white supremacist [1] Richard Spencer and his website Alternative Right. [2] It gained popularity through content on websites such as 4chan, Twitter, InfoWars, and Breitbart News. [3] It is strongly associated with certain online memes, such as Pepe the Frog.
The movement generally supports isolationism, nativism and protectionism, and opposes immigration, [3] multiculturalism and political correctness. It has been criticized for having prominent supporters who are antisemitic, [4] Islamophobic, [5] racist, [6] sexist [7] and homophobic. [8] It is also associated with fringe groups such as the men's rights movement and the neoreactionary movement.
During the 2016 presidential campaign, the alt-right strongly supported the Trump campaign. Hillary Clinton attacked the alt-right as "racist ideas ... anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-women ideas" and accused Donald Trump of taking the alt-right "mainstream". [9] The Trump administration includes several figures who are associated with the alt-right, such as White House Chief Strategist Steve Bannon. [10]
References
- ^ Wines, Michael; Saul, Stephanie (July 5, 2015). "White Supremacists Extend Their Reach Through Websites". The New York Times.
- ^ http://www.toqonline.com/blog/richard-spencer-launches-alternative-right/
- ^ a b "Breitbart News is “the platform for the alt-right,” boasts Stephen Bannon." Posner, Sarah (August 22, 2016). "How Donald Trump's New Campaign Chief Created an Online Haven for White Nationalists". Mother Jones. Retrieved November 13, 2016.
- ^ The Alt-Right's Antisemitism
- ^ Hassan, Adeel (September 23, 2016). "Candy, Hashtags and Hate". The New York Times.
- ^ How a white nationalist leader wants to go mainstream with his racist movement
- ^ "How the alt-right's sexism lures men into white supremacy".
- ^ Signorile, Michelangelo (September 21, 2016). "Donald Trump's Hate-Fueled, Alt-Right Army Hates 'Faggots' Too". The Huffington Post. Retrieved October 30, 2016.
- ^ http://www.npr.org/2016/08/26/491452721/the-history-of-the-alt-right
- ^ "The alt-right Leninist". www.newstatesman.com. Retrieved May 14, 2017.
Nearly all of the sources cited in this article are opinion-based far-left blogs that have no credibility whatsoever. It is so contaminated that it should be burned down and re-written. Examples:
https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/pg7jbv/men-are-creepy-new-study-confirms
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files
http://forward.com/news/national/348370/is-the-alt-right-reaching-out-to-jews-and-why/?attribution=articles-article-related-1-headline ("Turns out, the “alt-right” is a loose affiliation of racists and others haters including, but not limited to, white supremacists and anti-Semites.")
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Temennigru ( talk • contribs) 18:06, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
Exactly! Especially like that they claim ALT-right are anti-Semitic and then list that a Jewish person coined the phrase. I used to trust wickipedia - now I have to view anything I read on this site as suspect.
What an incredibly skewed and poorly written Propaganda article. Virginia1954 ( talk) 23:40, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
ie proofreading...you say Paul Gottfried first used 'alt-right' in 2008. Then you say Richard Spencer coined the term in 2010...you can't 'coin' a term that someone else already, er, invented 2 years prior. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Niccast ( talk • contribs) 14:50, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Alt-left is a term coined by President Donald Trump in reference to the radicalized counter protesters that erupted into violence during a permitted protest rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. [1] Speaking at Trump Tower in Manhattan, Trump questioned "What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, the alt-right?"
Members of the alt-left typically do not support free speech and engage in premeditated rioting, fighting and demonstrating against persons with opinions that differ from theirs. Let us eat lettuce ( talk) 22:49, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
References
New article: [2] with a definition and style-usage guidelines.