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Does Alsatian have a standard orthography? Maximus Rex 23:12, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
No. That's a problem all Alemannic speakers face when they try to write in their language. For instance some people write the long "i" (English ee) as "y", others as "ii", and others like in German: "ie" (which actually represents another sound in Alemannic), and this is one of the more minor problems. On the Alemannic Wikipedia we've solved it by allowing anyone to write as they speak; with a few recommendations.
Are there any teach-yourself books or similar in English? Justinc 14:27, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
It would be a good idea to look out over at the german and French articles, which are much more complete, for material. Circeus 04:30, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
How many alsatian speakers are there in France?-- Burgas00 20:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
The best way to save the Alsatian language would be to strengthen it in the countryside areas where it is still much spoken. Concentrating the effort on those areas and villages there can be an "Alsatianland", a land where the Alsatian language is the majority language, of usual use. For that also it would help if German was also tought in school as foreign language so both French and German have a similar position in the eyes of Alsatian children from the villages of "Alsatianland".-- 88.9.129.42 ( talk) 01:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
The bigoted French government has since WWII done its best to kill off all local languages in France, particularly German (in its dialects of Alsace and Lorraine. It is probably too late to save them from demise. Instead, being from Belgium, I think we should do onto French in that country what Paris has done to German in France: destroy it. I am all for Flemish ONLY language policy in Belgium, to make everybody speak the National Language or remain uneducated (the same policy Paris enforced in Alsace and Lorraine). Doing so, the howling from Paris would rise to the seventh heaven on the charges of discrimination, bigotry and linguicide....... namely, the same that she has done to the German language and heritage in Alsace and Lorraine.. It also would help Belgium to get rid of this foreign language (French) on our soil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.203.61 ( talk) 16:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
The inscription on the window is not in Alsatian, only in an old form of Standard German. Phonetically, it's not Alsatian since "House" is spelled with a diphthong rather than as hus.-- Chlämens 04:14, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
If anyone can source the claim that Office 2007 will appear in an Alsatian version, they can reinstate the commented-out "Trivia" section. CapnPrep 00:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
My favorite cousin from Castroville was in Austin January 22-23, 2007. He speaks fluent Alsatian and Karen Roesch, from the Germanic Studies Dept. at The University of Texas, interviewed him at length. They made an Alsatian language CD which could be useful as a learning tool. Since the language is a dialect, and unwritten, the only way to learn it is to listen and speak. Hearing it brings back memories of my parents and grandparents who conversed in that tongue. WWII is the watermark for when they stopped teaching their children to speak it, so I didn't learn. Justin Jungman is four years older than me and thinks that is why he was born in time to learn it. His brothers who are closer to my age didn't. I do have an ear for it, though. Interestingly the European Alsatians find that the language still spoken here in Texas is one hundred forty years behind current usage in Alsace. It is as if the language was frozen in time for having been isolated by immigration. This is similar to Patois spoken in backwaters of Louisiana. Justin returns annually to Alsace where he if feted as the Alsatian Cowboy revisiting his roots from America. They treat him like visiting royalty, staying at the homes of the governor and others who wish to converse with him. He is translating country music classics into Alsatian for the bands in Alsace who play in the style of Western swing as good as any in Texas. We went to the Broken Spoke last night and heard Alvin Crow and the Hard Core Country band. Justin had brought me a CD from an Alsatian band. The Ruby Ranch Band's Western swing rendition of Amazing Grace is priceless. Frances Hans Morey, Austin, TX Fmorey 16:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC Fmorey 13:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC) Fmorey 14:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
By what linguistic standard is Alsatian considered a language? The first sentence in this article accurately describes Alsatian as a dialect. In the English language, the term dialect is not interchangeable with the term language. I strongly suggest changing title of article to something like Alsatian (dialect) to make this distinction. D'accord? Comme le Lapin 08:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Lapin, if you'd like to see the name of this article changed, make a formal proposal. I don't think you will succeed, but at least this particular question will be settled. Otherwise, the language vs. dialect issue is a more general, very long-standing, occasionally interesting, and IMO ultimately futile, debate that should be continued elsewhere. CapnPrep 09:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Linguistically Alsatian is part of the continental West Germanic dialect continuum, it has no specific properties that set it apart from other dialects of German. It is even closer to standard German than some dialects whose speakers unambiguously think of themselves as German speakers, for example Swiss German or some of the Low German dialects.
This alone however does not mean it must be classified as a dialect of German. As someone said above, it's social-political-cultural-historical circumstances that do. There are precedences of languages who are likewhise part of a dialect continuum, yet for political reasons their speakers chose to define themselves out of it. Case in point Luxembourgish which is also part of the German dialect continuum, but has its own standardised orthography. Its speakers regard it as separate from German, therefore it is by definition.
However this has not happened with Alsatian. It has no formalised standard, neither spoken nor written. In formal situations (when they don't use French), Alsatian speakers use standard German. Written publications from Alsace use standard German. These facts are strong indications that Alsatian speakers look upon German as their "umbrella language". Therefore Alsatian is a dialect of German by defintion.
The fact that French law would call it otherwhise, and that some French people object to the classification of Alsatian as German - mostly for political reasons - is irrelevant for this conclusion, as long as they don't convince the Alsatians themselves that they aren't German speakers. Apparently they haven't succeeded in convincing them. Anorak2 ( talk) 01:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
The given SIL code of gsw is incorrect - that code is for Swiss German, which this article admits is not the same thing. There appears to be no SIL code for Alsatian. -- EncycloPetey ( talk) 18:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I've removed that dubious number of 96,000 speakers as the source is obviously wrong. The source says that 60% of the population of Alsace or 96,000 speak Alsatian but Alsace has some 1.8 million people, and 60% of 1.8 million is definitely more than 96,000 if my maths is right. 960,000 might be closer to the truth but as the source doesn't even provide a date, it's safer to leave it out altogether.-- Colomen ( talk) 21:47, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
What's the best way to make these corrections? :
And according to http://www.alsa-immer.eu/Elsassischa_Grammatik.xml apparently
-- Espoo ( talk) 09:58, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
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Does Alsatian have a standard orthography? Maximus Rex 23:12, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
No. That's a problem all Alemannic speakers face when they try to write in their language. For instance some people write the long "i" (English ee) as "y", others as "ii", and others like in German: "ie" (which actually represents another sound in Alemannic), and this is one of the more minor problems. On the Alemannic Wikipedia we've solved it by allowing anyone to write as they speak; with a few recommendations.
Are there any teach-yourself books or similar in English? Justinc 14:27, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
It would be a good idea to look out over at the german and French articles, which are much more complete, for material. Circeus 04:30, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
How many alsatian speakers are there in France?-- Burgas00 20:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
The best way to save the Alsatian language would be to strengthen it in the countryside areas where it is still much spoken. Concentrating the effort on those areas and villages there can be an "Alsatianland", a land where the Alsatian language is the majority language, of usual use. For that also it would help if German was also tought in school as foreign language so both French and German have a similar position in the eyes of Alsatian children from the villages of "Alsatianland".-- 88.9.129.42 ( talk) 01:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
The bigoted French government has since WWII done its best to kill off all local languages in France, particularly German (in its dialects of Alsace and Lorraine. It is probably too late to save them from demise. Instead, being from Belgium, I think we should do onto French in that country what Paris has done to German in France: destroy it. I am all for Flemish ONLY language policy in Belgium, to make everybody speak the National Language or remain uneducated (the same policy Paris enforced in Alsace and Lorraine). Doing so, the howling from Paris would rise to the seventh heaven on the charges of discrimination, bigotry and linguicide....... namely, the same that she has done to the German language and heritage in Alsace and Lorraine.. It also would help Belgium to get rid of this foreign language (French) on our soil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.203.61 ( talk) 16:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
The inscription on the window is not in Alsatian, only in an old form of Standard German. Phonetically, it's not Alsatian since "House" is spelled with a diphthong rather than as hus.-- Chlämens 04:14, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
If anyone can source the claim that Office 2007 will appear in an Alsatian version, they can reinstate the commented-out "Trivia" section. CapnPrep 00:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
My favorite cousin from Castroville was in Austin January 22-23, 2007. He speaks fluent Alsatian and Karen Roesch, from the Germanic Studies Dept. at The University of Texas, interviewed him at length. They made an Alsatian language CD which could be useful as a learning tool. Since the language is a dialect, and unwritten, the only way to learn it is to listen and speak. Hearing it brings back memories of my parents and grandparents who conversed in that tongue. WWII is the watermark for when they stopped teaching their children to speak it, so I didn't learn. Justin Jungman is four years older than me and thinks that is why he was born in time to learn it. His brothers who are closer to my age didn't. I do have an ear for it, though. Interestingly the European Alsatians find that the language still spoken here in Texas is one hundred forty years behind current usage in Alsace. It is as if the language was frozen in time for having been isolated by immigration. This is similar to Patois spoken in backwaters of Louisiana. Justin returns annually to Alsace where he if feted as the Alsatian Cowboy revisiting his roots from America. They treat him like visiting royalty, staying at the homes of the governor and others who wish to converse with him. He is translating country music classics into Alsatian for the bands in Alsace who play in the style of Western swing as good as any in Texas. We went to the Broken Spoke last night and heard Alvin Crow and the Hard Core Country band. Justin had brought me a CD from an Alsatian band. The Ruby Ranch Band's Western swing rendition of Amazing Grace is priceless. Frances Hans Morey, Austin, TX Fmorey 16:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC Fmorey 13:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC) Fmorey 14:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
By what linguistic standard is Alsatian considered a language? The first sentence in this article accurately describes Alsatian as a dialect. In the English language, the term dialect is not interchangeable with the term language. I strongly suggest changing title of article to something like Alsatian (dialect) to make this distinction. D'accord? Comme le Lapin 08:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Lapin, if you'd like to see the name of this article changed, make a formal proposal. I don't think you will succeed, but at least this particular question will be settled. Otherwise, the language vs. dialect issue is a more general, very long-standing, occasionally interesting, and IMO ultimately futile, debate that should be continued elsewhere. CapnPrep 09:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Linguistically Alsatian is part of the continental West Germanic dialect continuum, it has no specific properties that set it apart from other dialects of German. It is even closer to standard German than some dialects whose speakers unambiguously think of themselves as German speakers, for example Swiss German or some of the Low German dialects.
This alone however does not mean it must be classified as a dialect of German. As someone said above, it's social-political-cultural-historical circumstances that do. There are precedences of languages who are likewhise part of a dialect continuum, yet for political reasons their speakers chose to define themselves out of it. Case in point Luxembourgish which is also part of the German dialect continuum, but has its own standardised orthography. Its speakers regard it as separate from German, therefore it is by definition.
However this has not happened with Alsatian. It has no formalised standard, neither spoken nor written. In formal situations (when they don't use French), Alsatian speakers use standard German. Written publications from Alsace use standard German. These facts are strong indications that Alsatian speakers look upon German as their "umbrella language". Therefore Alsatian is a dialect of German by defintion.
The fact that French law would call it otherwhise, and that some French people object to the classification of Alsatian as German - mostly for political reasons - is irrelevant for this conclusion, as long as they don't convince the Alsatians themselves that they aren't German speakers. Apparently they haven't succeeded in convincing them. Anorak2 ( talk) 01:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
The given SIL code of gsw is incorrect - that code is for Swiss German, which this article admits is not the same thing. There appears to be no SIL code for Alsatian. -- EncycloPetey ( talk) 18:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I've removed that dubious number of 96,000 speakers as the source is obviously wrong. The source says that 60% of the population of Alsace or 96,000 speak Alsatian but Alsace has some 1.8 million people, and 60% of 1.8 million is definitely more than 96,000 if my maths is right. 960,000 might be closer to the truth but as the source doesn't even provide a date, it's safer to leave it out altogether.-- Colomen ( talk) 21:47, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
What's the best way to make these corrections? :
And according to http://www.alsa-immer.eu/Elsassischa_Grammatik.xml apparently
-- Espoo ( talk) 09:58, 29 September 2021 (UTC)