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![]() | On 4 February 2013, it was proposed that this article be moved to Alphonse Mucha. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 14, 2018 and July 14, 2019. |
Most English-language sources seem to use "Alphonse", including the English version of the website of the Mucha Museum in Prague (although the Czech version uses Alfons). Wikipedia's guideline on naming suggests using the name that English speakers will most readily recognize, so maybe the article should be moved to Alphonse Mucha? —Cel ithemis 00:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. What is most important, how do people think the name is, how it really is? Mucha was Czech, I think it is disrepectful and untrue to change his name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.235.212.119 ( talk) 00:46, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I would have voted against the recent unilateral and undiscussed move of the article from "Alfons" to "Alphonse". He is known as "Alfons" both in the Czech Republic and France, and note the de:W article is at "Alfons" as well. I really don't think such moves should be made without discussion. (BTW, note that the move broke the link to Commons). I feel even more strongly that if we insist on Anglisizing his name for this article, the article at least needs to note the name the rest of the world knows him as. As to the claim that "Alphonse" was his "birth name"... well, I'll be charitable and assume that change was made out of simple carelessness. I changed it back to Alfons; if anyone disagrees with that, please provide a citation (and we'll correct his birth name in all the Wikipedias in other languages too if such information can be shown). Thanks. Infrogmation ( talk) 19:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
I moved the article to match the article title on every single other Wikipedia including French. I hadn't even noticed this thread, and honestly its current relevance is questionable, because it's over three years old, and publishing standards with regard to Mucha have changed. The spelling "Alphonse" was popularized over 100 years ago, when it was still common practice to refer to people by the variant of their name in the local language of the writer (e.g. an Italian named Giuseppe Blanco would likely be referred to as Josheph Blanco in English, José Blanco in Spanish, Josephe Blanco in French, etc.) This practice has been almost completely extinct for at least three generations now. Early English works on Mucha picked up the French spelling since Mucha's work was best known and popularized in France. Today, however, newly-published works increasingly use "Alfons", including in both French and English. For English-language examples, see those by Jana Brabcova, Renate Ulmer, Petr Wittlich, and Alfons's own descendants Jiri Mucha and Saraha Mucha. Some works still in print still use "Alphonse", such as all of Dover Press's repros of his work as clipart (but note that these were first published many decades ago, when Mucha was still being uniformly called "Alphonse" in French and English publications), and some recent retrospectives by Husslein-Arco, et al., and Rosalind Ormiston. I own almost every book ever published in English, and many in other languages, about Mucha, and virtually all of them that use "Alphonse" in the title clearly note that his name was really "Alfons" in the text and that "Alphonse " was simply a spelling preferred by his French publishers. At any rate, the fact that even the French Wikipedia, along with all other ones,* now uses "Alfons" is a strong indication of a world-wide consensus to use "Alfons". It makes the English WP look ignorant to continue to misspell his name. If someone wants to undo the move, you'll have to do it via
WP:RM, since the redir now at
Alphonse Mucha has been edited to include {{
R from alternative spelling}}
. PS: If you want to raise an issue with me personally, use my talk page. —
SMcCandlish
Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ
Contrib.
16:47, 4 February 2013 (UTC) *I'm not counting Latin, which is a playground Wikipedia like the Elivish and Klingon ones, nor Simple English, which does whatever the main English one does. 00:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
{{
R from alternative name}}
to the redirect "to prevent anyone other than an admin from moving it back", I did so because it was a redirect from an alternative name, and that template is supposed to go on such redirects. I did not "steamroll" over anyone. I made a simple, obvious edit to bring this article in line with the 40-odd other Wikipedias that have articles on Mucha. As already noted, I did not even notice that an unresolved naming discussion thread had ever been opened here. As it is, it should have been labeled {{
stale}}
, since it's three+ years old and did not come to a consensus. Obviously, if I'd thought there was such a discussion here I would have just opened a
WP:RM about the issue. But stop overreacting please. This is just a wiki and this is just text.
WP:BOLD is policy, and
WP:BRD is a standard operating procedure. If you are convinced the article should remain at
Alphonse Mucha, ask an admin to move it back, I'll open a formal
WP:RM, and that will be that. Histrionics are not helpful. Please see also your user talk page. —
SMcCandlish
Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ
Contrib.
00:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
{{
R from alternative spelling}}
." This comes across as you purposely editing the redirect to prevent the article being moved back by anyone other than an admin. If this is not what you meant by it, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. It is very easy to misunderstand that, however, given the way you presented it. I think that, in this case, it would have much more simple to move the article and then post a very short "I have moved the article to "Alfons Mucha" because almost every other Wikipedia (including the French Wikipedia) uses that title and more modern usage is trending that way from the previous adoption of the French spelling of his name." Keeping it short and simple like that would have been much more effective and explained the reason for the move very simply. ···
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02:37, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
(outdent) I'll ask an admin myself to move the page back, and then start a
WP:RM. An admin already opened the RM, without moving it back, so I acted too late. I reiterate that I had no idea there was already a (moribund and inconclusive) discussion about the matter, or I would have gone the RM route in the first place. I also reiterate that the case for Alfons is stronger than that for Alphonse, and that
WP:BOLD is policy, so all the personal attacks and bad-faith-assumptive ranting up there is grossly inappropriate. It is 10x more important that a civil discussion ensue about why English Wikipedia alone of all projects should continue to use a spelling (not an English one, but a French one abandoned even by fr.wiki!) that is no longer being promoted by many modern works on the article subject, than for any editors to abuse this article talk page as a forum for personally bashing me just because I pointed all this out though a bold page move. —
SMcCandlish
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Contrib.
00:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC) Updated 08:38, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
images from la pater have beenposted to wikimedia, [12], but the article is so crammd with images i dont know where to put one. it needs its own article. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 01:54, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 18:23, 4 March 2013 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Alfons Mucha → Alphonse Mucha –
Alfons Mucha Museum Prague | Czech Republic - Prague Life http://www.prague-life.com › Culture › Museum The museum is all about life and work of Alfons Mucha, the famous Czech painter who was the defining artist of the art nouveau movement in France, and who ...
Review of Alfons Mucha Museum and other museum reviews in ... www.frommers.com › ... › Czech Republic › Prague › Attraction Frommer's review of Alfons Mucha Museum in Prague. Get information about this attraction including applicable cost, tickets, operating hours and an expert ...
Alfons Mucha Museum - Health - The New York Times travel.nytimes.com › ... › czech republic › prague › WHAT TO DO Jul 22, 2009 – Reviews and ratings of Alfons Mucha Museum in Prague from The New York Times.
Mucha Museum - Prague - Reviews of Mucha Museum - TripAdvisor www.tripadvisor.com › ... › Prague › Things to Do in Prague Rating: 4 - 176 reviews The museum itself is not incredibly large but contained within this space is a nice collection of Alfons Mucha's incredible work. The museum is more of a large ...
Alfons Mucha Museum, Prague, Czech Republic www.topsightseeing.com/.../prague/.../alfonsmuchamuseum.ht... The Mucha Museum is dedicated to the life and work of the world-acclaimed Czech Art Nouveau painter Alphonse Mucha (1860-1939), housed in the 18th ...
Alfons Mucha Museum (Muzeum A. Muchy) information - Plnnr.com plnnr.com › Cities › Prague, Czech Republic › Attractions Alfons Mucha Museum (Muzeum A. Muchy) at Prague: description, address, and more. Tagged Museums, Historic sites, Galleries.
...and many pages more. (Sorry these URLs aren't clickable; just search for "Alfons Mucha" Museum -Wikipedia via Google to find these and many more.)
More examples found with near-zero effort
Jane Van Nimmen reviews Alfons Mucha - Nineteenth-Century Art ... www.19thc-artworldwide.org/index.php/.../alfons-muchaShare MAK – Österreichisches Museum für angewandte Kunst/ Gegenwartskunst, Vienna. ... Le Pater, Final sketch for sixth allegorical plate, Forgive us our trespasses, .... the horseshoe in Mucha's imagery emerged unmistakably in the first gallery, ...
Czech Art Nouveau gem by Alfons Mucha goes on view at the ... artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=55340 May 14, 2012 – /B Alfons Mucha (1860–1939) was the most famous Czech modern artist ... by Art Nouveau Czech artist Alfons Mucha, at the National Gallery in ... Epic from the American millionaire and Slavophile Charles Richard ... Marc Quinn opens major exhibition of his works at the Oceanographic Museum of Monaco ...
Alfons Mucha. Master of Art Nouveau A Retrospektive www.hypo-kunsthalle.de/newweb/emucha.html Alfons Mucha - Exhibition of the Kunsthalle der Hypo-Kulturstiftung Munich. ... This world-renowned Art Nouveau figure head, famous for his poster designs, book ... The financial support from the American benefactor Charles R. Crane ... collection of the Museum of Decorative Arts in Prague and the Musée d'Orsay in Paris.
The Apotheosis of Love – Unknown Works by Alfons Mucha in ... www.praha.eu/.../museums_and_galleries/the_... - Czech RepublicShare Jul 22, 2010 – Entertainment: Museums & Galleries: The Apotheosis of Love – Unknown Works by Alfons Mucha in Municipal House ... until 30th September 2010, right after which it will move on to The GASK Gallery in Kutná Hora. ... “It is a great honour for us that we can launch the series of exhibitions in the Municipal ...
2012 in the arts: Galleries - Features - The Prague Post www.praguepost.com › FeaturesShare Dec 26, 2012 – As the year drew to a close, Prague's Museum of Decorative Arts ... Alfons Mucha and Art Nouveau were in the news in other respects, as well.
The WP:COMMONNAME analysis being proferred here for "Alphonse" is simply off-base as a matter of both WP:COMMONSENSE and the ground truth about what's going on in non-reprint and non-out-of-print reliable sources. Even the fact that the Mucha family website offers that spelling on some of its pages is outweighed by the fact that the actual print books written by members of that family do the opposite (especially given that it's likely that the site is produced under contract by someone else – the same goes for the museum site, and see below for proof they use the Alfons spelling, too – while the books were actually written by the Muchas themselves). Here's another "Alfons" as used by the site of a third family member, his granddaughter, the artist Jarmila Mucha Plockova http://www.muchaplockova.com/story/mucha-family-history/Share Family History: The Mucha Dynasty – "Since 1888 Alfons Mucha lived in Paris doing illustrations. .... After 1979, the National Gallery in Prague organized many Alfons Mucha exhibitions around the...." When the three family members who have published on the matter use "Alfons" in their own works (and only managed to contradict themselves on one webpage which probably wasn't even written by them), it's beyond original research and hand-picking sources to avoid a verifiability outcome you don't like to insist they don't know how to spell their own ancestor's name! It verges on a WP:NOT#SOAPBOX and WP:ADVOCACY violation.
WP:COMMONNAME gives us a default pattern of naming, that is not a law of nature, just what to do in the absence of a clear rationale for something else. This case has several clear rationales for something other than what the majority of English-language publications (most of them now out-of-print, and decades old when still in print) have historically used for this subject. The latent supposition that all English-language sources preferred "Alphonse" until recently isn't correct, either; Ulmer's book is almost 20 years old now, and I'm just talking about books with Mucha's name in the title. It's not just books, by any means. An Amazon.com search for "Alfons Mucha" in quotation marks [14] produces 20 pages of results, from calendars to cell phone covers to dinner plates to posters to jigsaw puzzles, all current/recent products intended for a general, English-speaking audience, marketed under the "Alfons" spelling. But what about books? Let's look beyond the usual suspects (see my post in the original thread, above, for various recent works about Mucha that use "Alfons"). The Coasts of Bohemia: A Czech History by Derek Sayer (2000), uses "Alfons". Let's Go Budget Prague: The Student Travel Guide by Harvard Student Agencies uses "Alfons" (and contradicts the claim made above that the Alfons Mucha Museum uses the "Alphonse" spelling). The Lonely Planet: Prague city guide (Neil Wilson, 2007 onward, updated annually) uses Alfons. (All of these results can be verified by using the "Search inside this book" feature at Amazon, like so.) And so on. I could do this all day. Most books that use "Alphonse" are from the 1980s and earlier, with a very large proportion of them being published by Dover Press, who have more or less actively proselytized that spelling (relying on them heavily raises an undue weight sourcing problem, especially since they are not works of scholarship at all, but just collections of clip art for crafters).
But whatever. I really don't care much. I arrived at the article, saw that it was using an obsolete spelling, that all other-language Wikipedias including French were using the proper "Alfons" spelling, and so I moved it. It seemed clear at the time that no one else cared, since what was then the redirect,
Alfons Mucha, did not even have a {{
R from alternative name}}
on it yet. If I'd looked at the talk page, I probably would have seen the old thread, and thus would have started an RM instead of being
bold and just doing the move, but it really doesn't matter, since it's easily undone. Flying off the handle and accusing me of bad faith in the move is really beyond the pale, and just anti-collegiality antagonism for its own sake. Even if this RM ends up favoring the "Alphonse" spelling for now, I firmly predict that within 1-5 years it will be at "Alfons", for the reasons I've presented, and will stay that way. Just the fact that the French Wikipedia uses "Alfons" now ought to be enough; it makes zero sense for a wiki from another language (English) to keep defending a spelling now rejected in the language that spawned it (French). It's like en.wiki refusing to accept Beijing, Romania and Mumbai and still insisting on Peking, Rumania and Bombay just because outdated sources familiarly use them.
—
SMcCandlish
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Contrib.
07:30, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Will people stop moving this article? Anthony, you started the move discussion above and it was closed as no consensus, yet here you are, two days after it was closed, moving it in blatant disregard for the discussion above. If you disagree, there are other acceptable paths to take to resolve this dispute. Moving it like this is not the way to go about it. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
I think this needs some historical context... Czech Freemasonry has been banned and restored several times over the years... so which "restoration" are we talking about? Is it really worth mentioning? Blueboar ( talk) 16:23, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
My grandma's maiden name is Mocha and we have been told we are related to him. My father traveled to Praqua to visit his family's hometown. Does anyone know more about his family? Nancy Nonnemacher ( talk) 23:53, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for misspelling Pragua... Nancy Nonnemacher ( talk) 23:55, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Did Mucha really have any Jewish origins? I can find no mention of that anywhere except in one interview (in Czech) with his grandson, where it is mentioned that Alphonse's grandmother had some Jewish roots [15]. Whether that's true or not is probably up to a genealogist to find out. Mucha himself was, however, born into a Christian family, as were his parents. Also the arrest by the Gestapo was more a result of Mucha's Slavic nationalism than anything else. He was accused of being a "friend of the Jews" among other things, [16], but not of being of Jewish origin himself, which the Nazis would surely find out and use against him. So overall I'm doubtful whether there's any jewishness in Mucha's family to speak of. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baclinic ( talk • contribs) 15:06, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
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I came here to leave a short note than Mucha had two signatures. The one in the infobox is, I suppose, the way he signed letters, but his more familiar signature on his artwork is simply "Mucha" underlined. But I see that people can't even agree on his first name so it is doubtful that this matter will ever be addressed. Can two signatures go in the infobox? Wastrel Way ( talk) 12:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC) Eric
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | On 4 February 2013, it was proposed that this article be moved to Alphonse Mucha. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 14, 2018 and July 14, 2019. |
Most English-language sources seem to use "Alphonse", including the English version of the website of the Mucha Museum in Prague (although the Czech version uses Alfons). Wikipedia's guideline on naming suggests using the name that English speakers will most readily recognize, so maybe the article should be moved to Alphonse Mucha? —Cel ithemis 00:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. What is most important, how do people think the name is, how it really is? Mucha was Czech, I think it is disrepectful and untrue to change his name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.235.212.119 ( talk) 00:46, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I would have voted against the recent unilateral and undiscussed move of the article from "Alfons" to "Alphonse". He is known as "Alfons" both in the Czech Republic and France, and note the de:W article is at "Alfons" as well. I really don't think such moves should be made without discussion. (BTW, note that the move broke the link to Commons). I feel even more strongly that if we insist on Anglisizing his name for this article, the article at least needs to note the name the rest of the world knows him as. As to the claim that "Alphonse" was his "birth name"... well, I'll be charitable and assume that change was made out of simple carelessness. I changed it back to Alfons; if anyone disagrees with that, please provide a citation (and we'll correct his birth name in all the Wikipedias in other languages too if such information can be shown). Thanks. Infrogmation ( talk) 19:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
I moved the article to match the article title on every single other Wikipedia including French. I hadn't even noticed this thread, and honestly its current relevance is questionable, because it's over three years old, and publishing standards with regard to Mucha have changed. The spelling "Alphonse" was popularized over 100 years ago, when it was still common practice to refer to people by the variant of their name in the local language of the writer (e.g. an Italian named Giuseppe Blanco would likely be referred to as Josheph Blanco in English, José Blanco in Spanish, Josephe Blanco in French, etc.) This practice has been almost completely extinct for at least three generations now. Early English works on Mucha picked up the French spelling since Mucha's work was best known and popularized in France. Today, however, newly-published works increasingly use "Alfons", including in both French and English. For English-language examples, see those by Jana Brabcova, Renate Ulmer, Petr Wittlich, and Alfons's own descendants Jiri Mucha and Saraha Mucha. Some works still in print still use "Alphonse", such as all of Dover Press's repros of his work as clipart (but note that these were first published many decades ago, when Mucha was still being uniformly called "Alphonse" in French and English publications), and some recent retrospectives by Husslein-Arco, et al., and Rosalind Ormiston. I own almost every book ever published in English, and many in other languages, about Mucha, and virtually all of them that use "Alphonse" in the title clearly note that his name was really "Alfons" in the text and that "Alphonse " was simply a spelling preferred by his French publishers. At any rate, the fact that even the French Wikipedia, along with all other ones,* now uses "Alfons" is a strong indication of a world-wide consensus to use "Alfons". It makes the English WP look ignorant to continue to misspell his name. If someone wants to undo the move, you'll have to do it via
WP:RM, since the redir now at
Alphonse Mucha has been edited to include {{
R from alternative spelling}}
. PS: If you want to raise an issue with me personally, use my talk page. —
SMcCandlish
Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ
Contrib.
16:47, 4 February 2013 (UTC) *I'm not counting Latin, which is a playground Wikipedia like the Elivish and Klingon ones, nor Simple English, which does whatever the main English one does. 00:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
{{
R from alternative name}}
to the redirect "to prevent anyone other than an admin from moving it back", I did so because it was a redirect from an alternative name, and that template is supposed to go on such redirects. I did not "steamroll" over anyone. I made a simple, obvious edit to bring this article in line with the 40-odd other Wikipedias that have articles on Mucha. As already noted, I did not even notice that an unresolved naming discussion thread had ever been opened here. As it is, it should have been labeled {{
stale}}
, since it's three+ years old and did not come to a consensus. Obviously, if I'd thought there was such a discussion here I would have just opened a
WP:RM about the issue. But stop overreacting please. This is just a wiki and this is just text.
WP:BOLD is policy, and
WP:BRD is a standard operating procedure. If you are convinced the article should remain at
Alphonse Mucha, ask an admin to move it back, I'll open a formal
WP:RM, and that will be that. Histrionics are not helpful. Please see also your user talk page. —
SMcCandlish
Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ
Contrib.
00:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
{{
R from alternative spelling}}
." This comes across as you purposely editing the redirect to prevent the article being moved back by anyone other than an admin. If this is not what you meant by it, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. It is very easy to misunderstand that, however, given the way you presented it. I think that, in this case, it would have much more simple to move the article and then post a very short "I have moved the article to "Alfons Mucha" because almost every other Wikipedia (including the French Wikipedia) uses that title and more modern usage is trending that way from the previous adoption of the French spelling of his name." Keeping it short and simple like that would have been much more effective and explained the reason for the move very simply. ···
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02:37, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
(outdent) I'll ask an admin myself to move the page back, and then start a
WP:RM. An admin already opened the RM, without moving it back, so I acted too late. I reiterate that I had no idea there was already a (moribund and inconclusive) discussion about the matter, or I would have gone the RM route in the first place. I also reiterate that the case for Alfons is stronger than that for Alphonse, and that
WP:BOLD is policy, so all the personal attacks and bad-faith-assumptive ranting up there is grossly inappropriate. It is 10x more important that a civil discussion ensue about why English Wikipedia alone of all projects should continue to use a spelling (not an English one, but a French one abandoned even by fr.wiki!) that is no longer being promoted by many modern works on the article subject, than for any editors to abuse this article talk page as a forum for personally bashing me just because I pointed all this out though a bold page move. —
SMcCandlish
Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ
Contrib.
00:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC) Updated 08:38, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
images from la pater have beenposted to wikimedia, [12], but the article is so crammd with images i dont know where to put one. it needs its own article. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 01:54, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 18:23, 4 March 2013 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Alfons Mucha → Alphonse Mucha –
Alfons Mucha Museum Prague | Czech Republic - Prague Life http://www.prague-life.com › Culture › Museum The museum is all about life and work of Alfons Mucha, the famous Czech painter who was the defining artist of the art nouveau movement in France, and who ...
Review of Alfons Mucha Museum and other museum reviews in ... www.frommers.com › ... › Czech Republic › Prague › Attraction Frommer's review of Alfons Mucha Museum in Prague. Get information about this attraction including applicable cost, tickets, operating hours and an expert ...
Alfons Mucha Museum - Health - The New York Times travel.nytimes.com › ... › czech republic › prague › WHAT TO DO Jul 22, 2009 – Reviews and ratings of Alfons Mucha Museum in Prague from The New York Times.
Mucha Museum - Prague - Reviews of Mucha Museum - TripAdvisor www.tripadvisor.com › ... › Prague › Things to Do in Prague Rating: 4 - 176 reviews The museum itself is not incredibly large but contained within this space is a nice collection of Alfons Mucha's incredible work. The museum is more of a large ...
Alfons Mucha Museum, Prague, Czech Republic www.topsightseeing.com/.../prague/.../alfonsmuchamuseum.ht... The Mucha Museum is dedicated to the life and work of the world-acclaimed Czech Art Nouveau painter Alphonse Mucha (1860-1939), housed in the 18th ...
Alfons Mucha Museum (Muzeum A. Muchy) information - Plnnr.com plnnr.com › Cities › Prague, Czech Republic › Attractions Alfons Mucha Museum (Muzeum A. Muchy) at Prague: description, address, and more. Tagged Museums, Historic sites, Galleries.
...and many pages more. (Sorry these URLs aren't clickable; just search for "Alfons Mucha" Museum -Wikipedia via Google to find these and many more.)
More examples found with near-zero effort
Jane Van Nimmen reviews Alfons Mucha - Nineteenth-Century Art ... www.19thc-artworldwide.org/index.php/.../alfons-muchaShare MAK – Österreichisches Museum für angewandte Kunst/ Gegenwartskunst, Vienna. ... Le Pater, Final sketch for sixth allegorical plate, Forgive us our trespasses, .... the horseshoe in Mucha's imagery emerged unmistakably in the first gallery, ...
Czech Art Nouveau gem by Alfons Mucha goes on view at the ... artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=55340 May 14, 2012 – /B Alfons Mucha (1860–1939) was the most famous Czech modern artist ... by Art Nouveau Czech artist Alfons Mucha, at the National Gallery in ... Epic from the American millionaire and Slavophile Charles Richard ... Marc Quinn opens major exhibition of his works at the Oceanographic Museum of Monaco ...
Alfons Mucha. Master of Art Nouveau A Retrospektive www.hypo-kunsthalle.de/newweb/emucha.html Alfons Mucha - Exhibition of the Kunsthalle der Hypo-Kulturstiftung Munich. ... This world-renowned Art Nouveau figure head, famous for his poster designs, book ... The financial support from the American benefactor Charles R. Crane ... collection of the Museum of Decorative Arts in Prague and the Musée d'Orsay in Paris.
The Apotheosis of Love – Unknown Works by Alfons Mucha in ... www.praha.eu/.../museums_and_galleries/the_... - Czech RepublicShare Jul 22, 2010 – Entertainment: Museums & Galleries: The Apotheosis of Love – Unknown Works by Alfons Mucha in Municipal House ... until 30th September 2010, right after which it will move on to The GASK Gallery in Kutná Hora. ... “It is a great honour for us that we can launch the series of exhibitions in the Municipal ...
2012 in the arts: Galleries - Features - The Prague Post www.praguepost.com › FeaturesShare Dec 26, 2012 – As the year drew to a close, Prague's Museum of Decorative Arts ... Alfons Mucha and Art Nouveau were in the news in other respects, as well.
The WP:COMMONNAME analysis being proferred here for "Alphonse" is simply off-base as a matter of both WP:COMMONSENSE and the ground truth about what's going on in non-reprint and non-out-of-print reliable sources. Even the fact that the Mucha family website offers that spelling on some of its pages is outweighed by the fact that the actual print books written by members of that family do the opposite (especially given that it's likely that the site is produced under contract by someone else – the same goes for the museum site, and see below for proof they use the Alfons spelling, too – while the books were actually written by the Muchas themselves). Here's another "Alfons" as used by the site of a third family member, his granddaughter, the artist Jarmila Mucha Plockova http://www.muchaplockova.com/story/mucha-family-history/Share Family History: The Mucha Dynasty – "Since 1888 Alfons Mucha lived in Paris doing illustrations. .... After 1979, the National Gallery in Prague organized many Alfons Mucha exhibitions around the...." When the three family members who have published on the matter use "Alfons" in their own works (and only managed to contradict themselves on one webpage which probably wasn't even written by them), it's beyond original research and hand-picking sources to avoid a verifiability outcome you don't like to insist they don't know how to spell their own ancestor's name! It verges on a WP:NOT#SOAPBOX and WP:ADVOCACY violation.
WP:COMMONNAME gives us a default pattern of naming, that is not a law of nature, just what to do in the absence of a clear rationale for something else. This case has several clear rationales for something other than what the majority of English-language publications (most of them now out-of-print, and decades old when still in print) have historically used for this subject. The latent supposition that all English-language sources preferred "Alphonse" until recently isn't correct, either; Ulmer's book is almost 20 years old now, and I'm just talking about books with Mucha's name in the title. It's not just books, by any means. An Amazon.com search for "Alfons Mucha" in quotation marks [14] produces 20 pages of results, from calendars to cell phone covers to dinner plates to posters to jigsaw puzzles, all current/recent products intended for a general, English-speaking audience, marketed under the "Alfons" spelling. But what about books? Let's look beyond the usual suspects (see my post in the original thread, above, for various recent works about Mucha that use "Alfons"). The Coasts of Bohemia: A Czech History by Derek Sayer (2000), uses "Alfons". Let's Go Budget Prague: The Student Travel Guide by Harvard Student Agencies uses "Alfons" (and contradicts the claim made above that the Alfons Mucha Museum uses the "Alphonse" spelling). The Lonely Planet: Prague city guide (Neil Wilson, 2007 onward, updated annually) uses Alfons. (All of these results can be verified by using the "Search inside this book" feature at Amazon, like so.) And so on. I could do this all day. Most books that use "Alphonse" are from the 1980s and earlier, with a very large proportion of them being published by Dover Press, who have more or less actively proselytized that spelling (relying on them heavily raises an undue weight sourcing problem, especially since they are not works of scholarship at all, but just collections of clip art for crafters).
But whatever. I really don't care much. I arrived at the article, saw that it was using an obsolete spelling, that all other-language Wikipedias including French were using the proper "Alfons" spelling, and so I moved it. It seemed clear at the time that no one else cared, since what was then the redirect,
Alfons Mucha, did not even have a {{
R from alternative name}}
on it yet. If I'd looked at the talk page, I probably would have seen the old thread, and thus would have started an RM instead of being
bold and just doing the move, but it really doesn't matter, since it's easily undone. Flying off the handle and accusing me of bad faith in the move is really beyond the pale, and just anti-collegiality antagonism for its own sake. Even if this RM ends up favoring the "Alphonse" spelling for now, I firmly predict that within 1-5 years it will be at "Alfons", for the reasons I've presented, and will stay that way. Just the fact that the French Wikipedia uses "Alfons" now ought to be enough; it makes zero sense for a wiki from another language (English) to keep defending a spelling now rejected in the language that spawned it (French). It's like en.wiki refusing to accept Beijing, Romania and Mumbai and still insisting on Peking, Rumania and Bombay just because outdated sources familiarly use them.
—
SMcCandlish
Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ
Contrib.
07:30, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Will people stop moving this article? Anthony, you started the move discussion above and it was closed as no consensus, yet here you are, two days after it was closed, moving it in blatant disregard for the discussion above. If you disagree, there are other acceptable paths to take to resolve this dispute. Moving it like this is not the way to go about it. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
I think this needs some historical context... Czech Freemasonry has been banned and restored several times over the years... so which "restoration" are we talking about? Is it really worth mentioning? Blueboar ( talk) 16:23, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
My grandma's maiden name is Mocha and we have been told we are related to him. My father traveled to Praqua to visit his family's hometown. Does anyone know more about his family? Nancy Nonnemacher ( talk) 23:53, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for misspelling Pragua... Nancy Nonnemacher ( talk) 23:55, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Did Mucha really have any Jewish origins? I can find no mention of that anywhere except in one interview (in Czech) with his grandson, where it is mentioned that Alphonse's grandmother had some Jewish roots [15]. Whether that's true or not is probably up to a genealogist to find out. Mucha himself was, however, born into a Christian family, as were his parents. Also the arrest by the Gestapo was more a result of Mucha's Slavic nationalism than anything else. He was accused of being a "friend of the Jews" among other things, [16], but not of being of Jewish origin himself, which the Nazis would surely find out and use against him. So overall I'm doubtful whether there's any jewishness in Mucha's family to speak of. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baclinic ( talk • contribs) 15:06, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
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I came here to leave a short note than Mucha had two signatures. The one in the infobox is, I suppose, the way he signed letters, but his more familiar signature on his artwork is simply "Mucha" underlined. But I see that people can't even agree on his first name so it is doubtful that this matter will ever be addressed. Can two signatures go in the infobox? Wastrel Way ( talk) 12:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC) Eric