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In the listing of beliefs, it states The Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ is imminent and will be personal, visible, and premillennial. This is the believer's hope and is a vital truth that is an incentive to holy living and faithful service. What does "premillennial" mean? Is that before the turn of the next millenium? -- Habap 21:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
How do we decide who a prominent member is? Specifically why is Cam Ward on the list? -- Josephus78 03:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
More justification needs to be given for inclusion Brent Jesko as a prominent member. Josephus78 23:28, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please post some sort of confirmation that the three hockey players are in fact members or adherents of Alliance churches? I've tried unsuccessfully to find any mention of what church any of them belong to. I'd really like this to be true, but I'm beginning to think it's not. - Ed
Yeah, and what's with Alliance members being hockey players anyway (or is it vice-versa)?-- Midnite Critic 19:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I deleted from Prominent Members William Young, author of the Shack. From William Young’s website www.theshackbook.com “I am not connected, or a part, or a member of, or involved inside any sort of organization or movement anywhere.” The wikiencyclopedia article on William P. Young says “In an interview with World Magazine's Susan Olasky, Young, who is no longer a member of a church,” -- Myheck ( talk) 03:05, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to start removing unverfied pominent member entries soon, in accordance with the policy on verifiability - Ed
When talking about Christians in Muslim countries, we really should not mention names as that could put their lives at risk. R3hall ( talk) 14:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC)r3hall
I removed these redlinked entries. Joie de Vivre T 12:13, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Howard O. Jones is listed as an official worker in the C&MA 2009 Official Directory. Perhaps he was removed as a red link because there is no content on his article? I plan to restore him as a prominent member minus the redlink, unless Wikipedia automatically makes it a redlink. Is it acceptable to restore David Radar as a deceased former member?-- Myheck ( talk) 00:11, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Why isn't A.W. Tozer listed in the 'Prominent former members' list of members? According to 'The Life of A.W. Tozer - In Pursuit of God' by James L. Snyder he was very involved with the denomination. It was through one of the local churche's internal letters that he honed his writing skills. Pete1948 ( talk) 00:55, 7 August 2011 (UTC)Pete1948
As far as I can tell, the polity of the C&MA is fairly unique (although that of such denominations as the Assemblies of God and the Church of the Nazarene are similar), containing elements of Congregationalism, Presbyterianism, and (non-sacramental)"Episcopacy". If anyone would like a source for this change, see the following How We are Organized from the C&MA website. -- Midnite Critic 01:36, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Okay, but I'm not sure how that relates to C&MA polity. As a counterpoint, many such bodies indeed proselytize among Roman Catholics, Orthodox, and liberal Protestants. However, at the same time, the C&MA does work with like-minded "evangelical missionary sects", such as the Assemblies of God and Youth with a Mission. -- Midnite Critic ( talk) 15:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I grew up primarily in the C&MA, but also exposed to the Assemblies of God and the Church of the Nazarene. (I am now a priest in an Independent Syriac Orthodox Church.) I understand what you're saying about "fundamentalist," but personally, I prefer a more restrictive use of that term, applying it to folks like those up the road at Bob Jones University, folks who are even more exclusive than those who are generally found in the C&MA. (For me, the heuristic dividing line has to do with how one feels about Billy Graham: those who reject him as a "liberal ecumenist" are fundamentalists.) Concerning the "episcopal" aspects of Alliance polity, it is not unlike that found in the Methodist tradition (although, granted, the Alliance has not retained the title "bishop", calling its transcongregational leaders "superintendents" instead.) BTW, also, non-papal Catholic is not a contradiction. There are Old Catholics and Anglo-Catholic, not to mention the Orthodox, who also consider themselves "Catholic" and the [Byzantine] Orthodox Church the "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church," often to the exclusion of those who are in communion with/under the jurisdiction of the Pope. -- Midnite Critic ( talk) 17:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
See Manual of the C&MA. If you read this, you will note that "presbyterian" isn't quite right, either, and not only because of the presence of District Superintendents (non-sacramental "bishops" or "overseers", the latter being a literal translation of "episcopos"); the distrinct conferences and the general council don't quite correspond to the organs of pure presbyterian polity. Thus, I think the polity in question is one which falls outside the classic three categories, but which, indeed, incorporates elements of all of them, more or less equally divided. In other situations, one of the three generally predominates, which does not seem to be the case here. The District Superintendents in the Alliance have less authority than the bishops of outright episcopal churches, that is true, but they have more than presbyterian moderators, and the elected delegates to these conferences and councils are congregational representatives, not "elders" in the presbyterian sense. Regarding non-sacramental episcopacy: many Methodist groups, as well as communities rooted in Methodism, have retained the title of bishop along with many episcopal functions without maintaining either sacramental ordination or any claim to apostolic succession. In these situations, or inones analogous to it, even if the title of bishop has not been retained, the term "non-sacramental episcopacy" may be fairly applied. Concerning "Catholic," etc.: "Catholic" is indeed commonly used to describe the Churches in communion with/under the jurisdiction of the Pope; however, since "Catholic" is a creedal word, this is a sore point for those in other Churches which predate the Reformation (and for many Anglicans and some Lutherans); therefore, it is the opinion of many of us that "Catholic" should never be used, especially in a context striving for NPOV, without qualification, as in "Roman Catholic", "Old Catholic," or even, "Orthodox Catholic". Since there are two major families of Orthodoxy in Christianity, the same holds true there as well: "Byzantine Orthodoxy" and "Oriental Orthodoxy". -- Midnite Critic ( talk) 15:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
BTW, if you look at the Church of the Nazarene article, its polity is also described as "mixed"; while it is does not describe the episcopal elements present there as "non-sacramental", it certainly could. As with the Alliance, Nazarene superintendents are not ordained as bishops and make no claim to apostolic succession. -- Midnite Critic ( talk) 15:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok so I just discovered that while the C&MA started the US there are independent C&MA organizations in other countries which are autonomous to the US denomination. The different churches are connected through the [ Alliance World Fellowship] which provides "a non-legislative means of consultation and cooperation among the world community of the member churches". This article seems to be very US centric. My question is should this article stay focused on the C&MA church based in the US or should it become a page for the international C&MA movement and sub articles be made for each of the national churches. This is the approach that the Assemblies of God has taken. Either way this needs to be decided as if each one is atonomous then it makes it difficult to write about the specific polities and ministries of each church in one article. Ltwin ( talk) 19:28, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
The AWF is not the CMA. It is a completely different organization that is run completely separate. The AWF has its roots in the Christian and Missionary Alliance (C&MA). That statement is pulled right from the AWF website. It does not say it is the CMA, which obviously it is not as it is called something totally different. They are two separate organizations. They obviously have similar goals but CMA is a US based organization. Chris1834 Talk 22:42, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello, is true that the AWF has its roots in the Christian and Missionary Alliance (C&MA), but according to this website; http://www.cmalliance.org/about/family/national-office "The National Office: Located in Colorado Springs, CO, the National Office of the U.S. Christian and Missionary Alliance is home to the majority of administrative offices for The Alliance." The CMA office in Colorado Springs is the US office and is not the world headquarters. According to this website; http://www.awf.nu/about-us/introduction/ "The Alliance World Fellowship (AWF) unites churches and ministries in a mission-minded denomination with partners in many nations." The AWF is the international organization of the CMA and represents the global union of CMA churches. Thank you and have a great day. - ServB1 ( talk) 01:38, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
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Some of the problems with the editing of this page have been that although the page is about the C&MA, most of the information is based around the US region of the denomination. I have begun sandboxing a revamped article that focuses on the denomination as a whole. Whether regional pages are then created for the 5 regions can be decided but I think all that information could easily fit on the main page. Chris1834 Talk 13:53, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
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In the listing of beliefs, it states The Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ is imminent and will be personal, visible, and premillennial. This is the believer's hope and is a vital truth that is an incentive to holy living and faithful service. What does "premillennial" mean? Is that before the turn of the next millenium? -- Habap 21:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
How do we decide who a prominent member is? Specifically why is Cam Ward on the list? -- Josephus78 03:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
More justification needs to be given for inclusion Brent Jesko as a prominent member. Josephus78 23:28, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please post some sort of confirmation that the three hockey players are in fact members or adherents of Alliance churches? I've tried unsuccessfully to find any mention of what church any of them belong to. I'd really like this to be true, but I'm beginning to think it's not. - Ed
Yeah, and what's with Alliance members being hockey players anyway (or is it vice-versa)?-- Midnite Critic 19:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I deleted from Prominent Members William Young, author of the Shack. From William Young’s website www.theshackbook.com “I am not connected, or a part, or a member of, or involved inside any sort of organization or movement anywhere.” The wikiencyclopedia article on William P. Young says “In an interview with World Magazine's Susan Olasky, Young, who is no longer a member of a church,” -- Myheck ( talk) 03:05, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to start removing unverfied pominent member entries soon, in accordance with the policy on verifiability - Ed
When talking about Christians in Muslim countries, we really should not mention names as that could put their lives at risk. R3hall ( talk) 14:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC)r3hall
I removed these redlinked entries. Joie de Vivre T 12:13, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Howard O. Jones is listed as an official worker in the C&MA 2009 Official Directory. Perhaps he was removed as a red link because there is no content on his article? I plan to restore him as a prominent member minus the redlink, unless Wikipedia automatically makes it a redlink. Is it acceptable to restore David Radar as a deceased former member?-- Myheck ( talk) 00:11, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Why isn't A.W. Tozer listed in the 'Prominent former members' list of members? According to 'The Life of A.W. Tozer - In Pursuit of God' by James L. Snyder he was very involved with the denomination. It was through one of the local churche's internal letters that he honed his writing skills. Pete1948 ( talk) 00:55, 7 August 2011 (UTC)Pete1948
As far as I can tell, the polity of the C&MA is fairly unique (although that of such denominations as the Assemblies of God and the Church of the Nazarene are similar), containing elements of Congregationalism, Presbyterianism, and (non-sacramental)"Episcopacy". If anyone would like a source for this change, see the following How We are Organized from the C&MA website. -- Midnite Critic 01:36, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Okay, but I'm not sure how that relates to C&MA polity. As a counterpoint, many such bodies indeed proselytize among Roman Catholics, Orthodox, and liberal Protestants. However, at the same time, the C&MA does work with like-minded "evangelical missionary sects", such as the Assemblies of God and Youth with a Mission. -- Midnite Critic ( talk) 15:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I grew up primarily in the C&MA, but also exposed to the Assemblies of God and the Church of the Nazarene. (I am now a priest in an Independent Syriac Orthodox Church.) I understand what you're saying about "fundamentalist," but personally, I prefer a more restrictive use of that term, applying it to folks like those up the road at Bob Jones University, folks who are even more exclusive than those who are generally found in the C&MA. (For me, the heuristic dividing line has to do with how one feels about Billy Graham: those who reject him as a "liberal ecumenist" are fundamentalists.) Concerning the "episcopal" aspects of Alliance polity, it is not unlike that found in the Methodist tradition (although, granted, the Alliance has not retained the title "bishop", calling its transcongregational leaders "superintendents" instead.) BTW, also, non-papal Catholic is not a contradiction. There are Old Catholics and Anglo-Catholic, not to mention the Orthodox, who also consider themselves "Catholic" and the [Byzantine] Orthodox Church the "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church," often to the exclusion of those who are in communion with/under the jurisdiction of the Pope. -- Midnite Critic ( talk) 17:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
See Manual of the C&MA. If you read this, you will note that "presbyterian" isn't quite right, either, and not only because of the presence of District Superintendents (non-sacramental "bishops" or "overseers", the latter being a literal translation of "episcopos"); the distrinct conferences and the general council don't quite correspond to the organs of pure presbyterian polity. Thus, I think the polity in question is one which falls outside the classic three categories, but which, indeed, incorporates elements of all of them, more or less equally divided. In other situations, one of the three generally predominates, which does not seem to be the case here. The District Superintendents in the Alliance have less authority than the bishops of outright episcopal churches, that is true, but they have more than presbyterian moderators, and the elected delegates to these conferences and councils are congregational representatives, not "elders" in the presbyterian sense. Regarding non-sacramental episcopacy: many Methodist groups, as well as communities rooted in Methodism, have retained the title of bishop along with many episcopal functions without maintaining either sacramental ordination or any claim to apostolic succession. In these situations, or inones analogous to it, even if the title of bishop has not been retained, the term "non-sacramental episcopacy" may be fairly applied. Concerning "Catholic," etc.: "Catholic" is indeed commonly used to describe the Churches in communion with/under the jurisdiction of the Pope; however, since "Catholic" is a creedal word, this is a sore point for those in other Churches which predate the Reformation (and for many Anglicans and some Lutherans); therefore, it is the opinion of many of us that "Catholic" should never be used, especially in a context striving for NPOV, without qualification, as in "Roman Catholic", "Old Catholic," or even, "Orthodox Catholic". Since there are two major families of Orthodoxy in Christianity, the same holds true there as well: "Byzantine Orthodoxy" and "Oriental Orthodoxy". -- Midnite Critic ( talk) 15:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
BTW, if you look at the Church of the Nazarene article, its polity is also described as "mixed"; while it is does not describe the episcopal elements present there as "non-sacramental", it certainly could. As with the Alliance, Nazarene superintendents are not ordained as bishops and make no claim to apostolic succession. -- Midnite Critic ( talk) 15:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok so I just discovered that while the C&MA started the US there are independent C&MA organizations in other countries which are autonomous to the US denomination. The different churches are connected through the [ Alliance World Fellowship] which provides "a non-legislative means of consultation and cooperation among the world community of the member churches". This article seems to be very US centric. My question is should this article stay focused on the C&MA church based in the US or should it become a page for the international C&MA movement and sub articles be made for each of the national churches. This is the approach that the Assemblies of God has taken. Either way this needs to be decided as if each one is atonomous then it makes it difficult to write about the specific polities and ministries of each church in one article. Ltwin ( talk) 19:28, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
The AWF is not the CMA. It is a completely different organization that is run completely separate. The AWF has its roots in the Christian and Missionary Alliance (C&MA). That statement is pulled right from the AWF website. It does not say it is the CMA, which obviously it is not as it is called something totally different. They are two separate organizations. They obviously have similar goals but CMA is a US based organization. Chris1834 Talk 22:42, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello, is true that the AWF has its roots in the Christian and Missionary Alliance (C&MA), but according to this website; http://www.cmalliance.org/about/family/national-office "The National Office: Located in Colorado Springs, CO, the National Office of the U.S. Christian and Missionary Alliance is home to the majority of administrative offices for The Alliance." The CMA office in Colorado Springs is the US office and is not the world headquarters. According to this website; http://www.awf.nu/about-us/introduction/ "The Alliance World Fellowship (AWF) unites churches and ministries in a mission-minded denomination with partners in many nations." The AWF is the international organization of the CMA and represents the global union of CMA churches. Thank you and have a great day. - ServB1 ( talk) 01:38, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
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Some of the problems with the editing of this page have been that although the page is about the C&MA, most of the information is based around the US region of the denomination. I have begun sandboxing a revamped article that focuses on the denomination as a whole. Whether regional pages are then created for the 5 regions can be decided but I think all that information could easily fit on the main page. Chris1834 Talk 13:53, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
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