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I've removed huge chunks of the "Early years and family history" section because:
This article is not about Samuel, James, or Allen G Reed, (or Jesse James or James Timberlake), per
WP:IINFO and
WP:DUE. Once any of those Reed ancestors becomes notable enough to have their own article, it will be worthwhile to mention them provided there is an
WP:RS directly stating descent instead of the
WP:OR of rebuilding the family tree on this page. The article is also not about his parents, but since other article give a couple of sentences room to immediate family, I've not removed everything, only what was undue weight.
Ancestry.com, findagrave.com, and Samuelreedfamily.blogspot.com (though the last is run by my mother) are user-generated content and fail
WP:RS.
The remaining good sources do not connect Allen G. Reed to any of the claimed ancestors.
I'm replacing a few of these tags, {importance-section|date=October 2012}, with merge proposals since most of this material is not within
wp:scope for this article. Thanks, —
Jason Sosa20:33, 5 October 2012 (UTC)reply
Notability
I'm not sure if the subject of this article is notable enough to warrant a page of its own. Although there is a great deal of effort and research shown in the context of this article, it seems to be only comprehensive, without an aura of significance to it. Also, much of what this article is made up of is what other individuals Allen B. Reed met, rather than what he himself did.
DarthBottotalk•
cont04:47, 08 October 2012 (UTC)reply
Pretty much. I think !
WP:OWNer of the article has become discouraged and left when other people started to edit this page. I'm thinking that the sections on different ships should be merged to those different articles, and the !
WP:OWNer given a deadline to provide a source establishing notability before this article is deleted.
Ian.thomson (
talk)
14:49, 8 October 2012 (UTC)reply
I agree. This article appears to me, as giving undue credit to Allen B. Reed for military actions that involved teams or crews. The scope of this article seems to reflect the author of this article as being closely related to Allen B. Reed, who prepared content of military activity putting Allen B. Reed as the star, just as if you were to have Ben Afleck as the star of Pearl Harbor. It's as if you could replace Allen B. Reed's name with any other crewman's name who was involved in these military activities. If there is an ounce of benefit to merging the sub articles where I've indicated, then that would be great... but overall, I support the deletion or at least a drastic reduction of this article which I believe is in violation of
wp:undue. —
Jason Sosa15:19, 8 October 2012 (UTC)reply
I suppose I didn't read through everything as thoroughly as I thought, but it's worse than I originally perceived. Practically Reed's entire early life consists of what James Timberlake did, with the only iota of contenuity being that they were in the same town at the same time. There is virtually no contenuity why it would matter that Timberlake was pursuing Jesse James at the time, much less that he was at James' funeral.
DarthBottotalk•
cont21:43, 10 October 2012 (UTC)reply
Content that is uncited or without reliable sources
I am doing searches on "Allen B. Reed" OR "Allen Bevins Reed" OR "A. B. Reed" - and something from each of the items to find content from
reliable,
secondary sources. And, then, noting if I can or cannot find anything. No means I searched and couldn't find anything. Items that could provide background, and will probably not be too difficult to find, are for the moment labeled Background:--CaroleHenson(talk)01:12, 9 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Sheriff James French Reed (1852–1909) and Fannie G. (Wymore) Reed (1857–1936), married on March 28, 1883.[1] — this is a geneology page, need a better source No
He was named for his grandfather, Captain Allen Grigsby Reed (1812–1899). — no citation No
As deputy to Sheriff James Timberlake, Reed's father and Timberlake served as pallbearers at the funeral of the outlaw
Jesse James.[2] — Need to first tie Allen to his father. No
Asiatic Fleet Section, was 2nd paragraph: During the
Third Sulu Expedition in May 1905, the gunboat transported the provisional company of the US Army's 17th Infantry to Pata Island on an expedition to kill or capture a
Moro chieftain whose tribe had been robbing other islanders to the point that the
panglima in charge of the island had requested the army's assistance.
Midshipman Reed volunteered to accompany the expedition ashore and acted as signal officer to the gunboat using "wig-wag" flags and controlled the gunfire on a part of the firing line at the
Battle of Pata Island on May 13, 1905. During the fighting the rifle of a soldier standing by Reed became jammed and the midshipman gave him his sidearm to fire. Reed was commended by the army company commander in his report to
Major GeneralLeonard Wood, who in his report commended Paragua for its assistance in the expedition. Promoted to ensign on February 2, 1906, Reed assumed command of Paragua that same day from Kerrick.citation needed
Nicaragua, last sentence of paragraph 2: Denver was recommissioned on July 25, 1912 at Mare Island for service with the Pacific Fleet cruising the west coast from San Francisco to
Central America to protect American citizens and property.citation needed
Pacific Torpedo Flotilla, last sentence: Iris was based at San Diego and serviced the Pacific Fleet torpedo ships and
submarines.citation needed
Panama, last sentence: While serving as Port Captain at Balboa, Reed was promoted to
lieutenant commander on August 29, 1916.citation neededNo
On April 8, 1904, Mohican was assigned as station ship at the
Naval Station,
Olongapo,
Subic Bay,
Luzon,
Philippines and arrived at her new station on February 4, 1905. Reed served on Mohican variously as W division and signal officer before he was detached on April 17, 1905 to be
executive officer of
USS Paragua. — citation failed verification
"On December 14, 1906, Reed detached from Paragua" - no citation
On the Charleston: "from June 10, 1907 to April 18, 1908 as W & D division officer and senior assistant
engineering officer."- no citation
Ensign Reed detached from Charleston on April 18, 1908 to the protected cruiser USS Albany (CL-23), of the
Pacific Fleet Second Squadron Fourth Division, as senior engineer, reporting for duty on April 19, 1908 at Mare Island where Albany was berthed.[3] - failed verification, just shows he's on the Charleston, seems to be a dupe of the google book reference - got part of this from another source
He was assigned to the Ships' Movement Division of the office of the
Chief of Naval Operations in Washington, D.C. from June 1926 through July 1928 and
Returning to Washington, D.C. in June 1930, he was assigned to the
Material Division of the office of the Chief of Naval Operations.
USS New Orleans
The
USS New Orleans (CA-32) was launched on April 12, 1933 at the
Brooklyn Navy Yard, with Reed selected as the first commanding officer of the 876-man
heavy cruiser while the ship was fitting out in 1933. Orleans was a lead ship in a class of seven "treaty cruisers", that collectively saw extensive service in all major engagements in the
Pacific theater during
World War II.citation needed - this kind of info can be obtained from the article about the ship
New Orleans was commissioned on February 15, 1934 at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Under Captain Reed's command that ended on August 30, 1935,
Background:On July 5, New Orleans sailed to rendezvous with
USS Houston (CA-30), carrying President
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, for a nearly 12,000 nmi. cruise through the Panama Canal to Hawaii and an exercise with the United States Airship Macon and her aircraft off the California coast. - Same source as the previous item
Later, he was appointed
Chairman of the
Executive Committee of the Army and Navy Munitions Board until 1939. Transferred from the active to retired list on June 30, 1939, he nevertheless continued on active duty for two more years. On July 1, 1939 he was assigned general inspector of operations for the
United States Maritime Commission. His duties included advocating commission owned freight lines such as the Pacific Northwest & Oriental Line to shipping and rail companies.[4]clarification needed In 1940 and 1941 he was assistant to the Chairman of the
U.S. Maritime Commission,
AdmiralEmory S. Land and Navy
liaison to the Office of Production Management. After 37 years of service and the attack on Pearl Harbor still three months in the future, Captain Reed transferred to the inactive list on September 5, 1941.citation needed
During World War II, he worked as an executive with shipbuilding firms in New York, Texas and South Carolina, before retiring in 1946.
Personal life: The Reeds had a sonand three daughters.Allen B. Reed, Jr. (1912–1996) graduated from Annapolis in 1935 and retired more than twenty years later as a captain.
During his retirement, Captain Reed was a resident of Washington, DC and lived on Woodley Rd. NW where he and his wife lived from 1930 until his death in 1965. He is buried at
Arlington Cemetery. - don't have citations for all of this
Medals: Reed never held the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade, as he was appointed a full Lieutenant after three years of service as an Ensign. For administrative reasons, Reed's naval record states he was promoted to the rank of Lieutenant (junior grade) and Lieutenant on the same day.
I moved this back to the article. I don't have sources for the exact dates he made ensign and lieutenant, but I put a comment and sentences for the first date he is recorded as having the rank.--CaroleHenson(talk)16:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Found a source that said that all officers and enlisted men of the Navy and Marines who participated in the Nicaragua landing - between a period of time, and including the ship that Reed was on - received the Nicaraguan Campaign Medal]. Reed commanded a group of men between those dates. There was already a source for the Navy Cross. So, I moved the table back with those two items.--CaroleHenson(talk)23:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)reply
1) For the
Philippine Campaign Medal, this
archived link from the article page says that he would have had to have participated in the MINDANAO1902-1905 and JOLO 1905, 1906, 1913 engagements. I am not seeing that in his cited content. But,
this link mentions participation by vessel, including:USS Paragua: 15 Mar - 2 Apr 1905 and 23 Apr - 30 May 1905
He was on the Paragua in 1905, but I'm not sure when he joined the Paragua in 1905. Are the dates that he was on the Paragua known? Since this was given to everyone on the ship, it likely does not add to notability.--CaroleHenson(talk)00:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)reply
I found information about USS Isis involved in the Mexican Revolution, and it seems that he was commander of Isis at that time, but it's not clear. It is clear, though, that he was on Isis during that period.--CaroleHenson(talk)18:52, 8 December 2016 (UTC)reply
3) The
World War I Victory Medal with Transport Clasp page lists one of the criteria for the navy as: "Atlantic Fleet: Service in the Atlantic Fleet 25 May 1918 11 Nov. 1918." The article said he began transporting troops in February 1918 on the USS Susquehanna (ID-3016) and made seven transatlantic voyages, for which received the Navy Cross. Not sure whether this is enough to conclude that he received it. It seems common sense that he received it, but perhaps since we don't have more specific dates, it would be OR. Again, also not sure that this adds to notability.--CaroleHenson(talk)00:20, 7 December 2016 (UTC)reply
There's information that he was at the Office of Production Management - but there are no specific dates. Someone typed "about 1940" in the caption, but I'm not seeing that in Library of Congress description of the file. I think it says date unknown, some time between 1940 and 1945 (or 1946, I am not remembering exactly).--CaroleHenson(talk)19:22, 8 December 2016 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
I've removed huge chunks of the "Early years and family history" section because:
This article is not about Samuel, James, or Allen G Reed, (or Jesse James or James Timberlake), per
WP:IINFO and
WP:DUE. Once any of those Reed ancestors becomes notable enough to have their own article, it will be worthwhile to mention them provided there is an
WP:RS directly stating descent instead of the
WP:OR of rebuilding the family tree on this page. The article is also not about his parents, but since other article give a couple of sentences room to immediate family, I've not removed everything, only what was undue weight.
Ancestry.com, findagrave.com, and Samuelreedfamily.blogspot.com (though the last is run by my mother) are user-generated content and fail
WP:RS.
The remaining good sources do not connect Allen G. Reed to any of the claimed ancestors.
I'm replacing a few of these tags, {importance-section|date=October 2012}, with merge proposals since most of this material is not within
wp:scope for this article. Thanks, —
Jason Sosa20:33, 5 October 2012 (UTC)reply
Notability
I'm not sure if the subject of this article is notable enough to warrant a page of its own. Although there is a great deal of effort and research shown in the context of this article, it seems to be only comprehensive, without an aura of significance to it. Also, much of what this article is made up of is what other individuals Allen B. Reed met, rather than what he himself did.
DarthBottotalk•
cont04:47, 08 October 2012 (UTC)reply
Pretty much. I think !
WP:OWNer of the article has become discouraged and left when other people started to edit this page. I'm thinking that the sections on different ships should be merged to those different articles, and the !
WP:OWNer given a deadline to provide a source establishing notability before this article is deleted.
Ian.thomson (
talk)
14:49, 8 October 2012 (UTC)reply
I agree. This article appears to me, as giving undue credit to Allen B. Reed for military actions that involved teams or crews. The scope of this article seems to reflect the author of this article as being closely related to Allen B. Reed, who prepared content of military activity putting Allen B. Reed as the star, just as if you were to have Ben Afleck as the star of Pearl Harbor. It's as if you could replace Allen B. Reed's name with any other crewman's name who was involved in these military activities. If there is an ounce of benefit to merging the sub articles where I've indicated, then that would be great... but overall, I support the deletion or at least a drastic reduction of this article which I believe is in violation of
wp:undue. —
Jason Sosa15:19, 8 October 2012 (UTC)reply
I suppose I didn't read through everything as thoroughly as I thought, but it's worse than I originally perceived. Practically Reed's entire early life consists of what James Timberlake did, with the only iota of contenuity being that they were in the same town at the same time. There is virtually no contenuity why it would matter that Timberlake was pursuing Jesse James at the time, much less that he was at James' funeral.
DarthBottotalk•
cont21:43, 10 October 2012 (UTC)reply
Content that is uncited or without reliable sources
I am doing searches on "Allen B. Reed" OR "Allen Bevins Reed" OR "A. B. Reed" - and something from each of the items to find content from
reliable,
secondary sources. And, then, noting if I can or cannot find anything. No means I searched and couldn't find anything. Items that could provide background, and will probably not be too difficult to find, are for the moment labeled Background:--CaroleHenson(talk)01:12, 9 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Sheriff James French Reed (1852–1909) and Fannie G. (Wymore) Reed (1857–1936), married on March 28, 1883.[1] — this is a geneology page, need a better source No
He was named for his grandfather, Captain Allen Grigsby Reed (1812–1899). — no citation No
As deputy to Sheriff James Timberlake, Reed's father and Timberlake served as pallbearers at the funeral of the outlaw
Jesse James.[2] — Need to first tie Allen to his father. No
Asiatic Fleet Section, was 2nd paragraph: During the
Third Sulu Expedition in May 1905, the gunboat transported the provisional company of the US Army's 17th Infantry to Pata Island on an expedition to kill or capture a
Moro chieftain whose tribe had been robbing other islanders to the point that the
panglima in charge of the island had requested the army's assistance.
Midshipman Reed volunteered to accompany the expedition ashore and acted as signal officer to the gunboat using "wig-wag" flags and controlled the gunfire on a part of the firing line at the
Battle of Pata Island on May 13, 1905. During the fighting the rifle of a soldier standing by Reed became jammed and the midshipman gave him his sidearm to fire. Reed was commended by the army company commander in his report to
Major GeneralLeonard Wood, who in his report commended Paragua for its assistance in the expedition. Promoted to ensign on February 2, 1906, Reed assumed command of Paragua that same day from Kerrick.citation needed
Nicaragua, last sentence of paragraph 2: Denver was recommissioned on July 25, 1912 at Mare Island for service with the Pacific Fleet cruising the west coast from San Francisco to
Central America to protect American citizens and property.citation needed
Pacific Torpedo Flotilla, last sentence: Iris was based at San Diego and serviced the Pacific Fleet torpedo ships and
submarines.citation needed
Panama, last sentence: While serving as Port Captain at Balboa, Reed was promoted to
lieutenant commander on August 29, 1916.citation neededNo
On April 8, 1904, Mohican was assigned as station ship at the
Naval Station,
Olongapo,
Subic Bay,
Luzon,
Philippines and arrived at her new station on February 4, 1905. Reed served on Mohican variously as W division and signal officer before he was detached on April 17, 1905 to be
executive officer of
USS Paragua. — citation failed verification
"On December 14, 1906, Reed detached from Paragua" - no citation
On the Charleston: "from June 10, 1907 to April 18, 1908 as W & D division officer and senior assistant
engineering officer."- no citation
Ensign Reed detached from Charleston on April 18, 1908 to the protected cruiser USS Albany (CL-23), of the
Pacific Fleet Second Squadron Fourth Division, as senior engineer, reporting for duty on April 19, 1908 at Mare Island where Albany was berthed.[3] - failed verification, just shows he's on the Charleston, seems to be a dupe of the google book reference - got part of this from another source
He was assigned to the Ships' Movement Division of the office of the
Chief of Naval Operations in Washington, D.C. from June 1926 through July 1928 and
Returning to Washington, D.C. in June 1930, he was assigned to the
Material Division of the office of the Chief of Naval Operations.
USS New Orleans
The
USS New Orleans (CA-32) was launched on April 12, 1933 at the
Brooklyn Navy Yard, with Reed selected as the first commanding officer of the 876-man
heavy cruiser while the ship was fitting out in 1933. Orleans was a lead ship in a class of seven "treaty cruisers", that collectively saw extensive service in all major engagements in the
Pacific theater during
World War II.citation needed - this kind of info can be obtained from the article about the ship
New Orleans was commissioned on February 15, 1934 at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Under Captain Reed's command that ended on August 30, 1935,
Background:On July 5, New Orleans sailed to rendezvous with
USS Houston (CA-30), carrying President
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, for a nearly 12,000 nmi. cruise through the Panama Canal to Hawaii and an exercise with the United States Airship Macon and her aircraft off the California coast. - Same source as the previous item
Later, he was appointed
Chairman of the
Executive Committee of the Army and Navy Munitions Board until 1939. Transferred from the active to retired list on June 30, 1939, he nevertheless continued on active duty for two more years. On July 1, 1939 he was assigned general inspector of operations for the
United States Maritime Commission. His duties included advocating commission owned freight lines such as the Pacific Northwest & Oriental Line to shipping and rail companies.[4]clarification needed In 1940 and 1941 he was assistant to the Chairman of the
U.S. Maritime Commission,
AdmiralEmory S. Land and Navy
liaison to the Office of Production Management. After 37 years of service and the attack on Pearl Harbor still three months in the future, Captain Reed transferred to the inactive list on September 5, 1941.citation needed
During World War II, he worked as an executive with shipbuilding firms in New York, Texas and South Carolina, before retiring in 1946.
Personal life: The Reeds had a sonand three daughters.Allen B. Reed, Jr. (1912–1996) graduated from Annapolis in 1935 and retired more than twenty years later as a captain.
During his retirement, Captain Reed was a resident of Washington, DC and lived on Woodley Rd. NW where he and his wife lived from 1930 until his death in 1965. He is buried at
Arlington Cemetery. - don't have citations for all of this
Medals: Reed never held the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade, as he was appointed a full Lieutenant after three years of service as an Ensign. For administrative reasons, Reed's naval record states he was promoted to the rank of Lieutenant (junior grade) and Lieutenant on the same day.
I moved this back to the article. I don't have sources for the exact dates he made ensign and lieutenant, but I put a comment and sentences for the first date he is recorded as having the rank.--CaroleHenson(talk)16:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Found a source that said that all officers and enlisted men of the Navy and Marines who participated in the Nicaragua landing - between a period of time, and including the ship that Reed was on - received the Nicaraguan Campaign Medal]. Reed commanded a group of men between those dates. There was already a source for the Navy Cross. So, I moved the table back with those two items.--CaroleHenson(talk)23:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)reply
1) For the
Philippine Campaign Medal, this
archived link from the article page says that he would have had to have participated in the MINDANAO1902-1905 and JOLO 1905, 1906, 1913 engagements. I am not seeing that in his cited content. But,
this link mentions participation by vessel, including:USS Paragua: 15 Mar - 2 Apr 1905 and 23 Apr - 30 May 1905
He was on the Paragua in 1905, but I'm not sure when he joined the Paragua in 1905. Are the dates that he was on the Paragua known? Since this was given to everyone on the ship, it likely does not add to notability.--CaroleHenson(talk)00:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)reply
I found information about USS Isis involved in the Mexican Revolution, and it seems that he was commander of Isis at that time, but it's not clear. It is clear, though, that he was on Isis during that period.--CaroleHenson(talk)18:52, 8 December 2016 (UTC)reply
3) The
World War I Victory Medal with Transport Clasp page lists one of the criteria for the navy as: "Atlantic Fleet: Service in the Atlantic Fleet 25 May 1918 11 Nov. 1918." The article said he began transporting troops in February 1918 on the USS Susquehanna (ID-3016) and made seven transatlantic voyages, for which received the Navy Cross. Not sure whether this is enough to conclude that he received it. It seems common sense that he received it, but perhaps since we don't have more specific dates, it would be OR. Again, also not sure that this adds to notability.--CaroleHenson(talk)00:20, 7 December 2016 (UTC)reply
There's information that he was at the Office of Production Management - but there are no specific dates. Someone typed "about 1940" in the caption, but I'm not seeing that in Library of Congress description of the file. I think it says date unknown, some time between 1940 and 1945 (or 1946, I am not remembering exactly).--CaroleHenson(talk)19:22, 8 December 2016 (UTC)reply