![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Oy vey! Will everyone just stop using this page as a place to attack Mormons? People keep making claims and assertions that are either completely unverifiable or are demonstrably false; they're usually little more than misunderstandings, opinions, or thinly-veiled, emotional criticisms of the religion itself. E.G.: People who have not actually read the Book of Mormon and are not actually familiar with the narrative it contains, should refrain from inserting their own interpretations of what they may at one point have heard someone else say they think they heard about the book. They have no more place airing their grievances here than they do attempting to insert a rant against the finer points of halakhic law in the page for "Jewbilee," or a tirade against the Umayyad dynasty in the page about "Cartoon Wars." From what I can see, the single most biased (and usually antagonistic) pages on Wikipedia are the ones dedicated to religious traditions...It's even bleeding over into the cartoon sections! This page is dedicated to an episode of South Park, not a formal critique of (or, what is more, an apology for) Mormonism! -- Awakeandalive1, May 11, 2006
"The mob could've simply been anti-polygamy, since Smith was into that sorta thing." <-------- This is the sort of moronic statement that I hear all of the time. I don't believe the mob killed Smith solely because of a disagreement on Polygamy, which is absurd because Biblical evidence abounds of ancient patriarchs participating in plural marriage with divine favor when commanded. They were apparently also disagreeing with the Mormon doctrinal principles of NOT MURDERING and FOLLOWING THE LAWS OF THE LAND. Absurd absurd absurd. 203.131.167.26 09:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Did a Mormon work on this page? Do I really have to ask....
Don't you know? The Mormons created Wikipedia.
-G
Mormons have far too much interest in this page. Let's make a "no mormon" rule on this page. Kritish5951 05:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
So much for that. 89.145.205.223 19:55, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
This page is so heavily biased I don't even know where to begin. And the only rescue, the link to an allegedly "critical" analysis of the mormons is not at all critical, but biased as well. This article is now very close to propaganda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.242.231.245 ( talk • contribs) 11:49, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't know why the section with Quotes added by 24.87.117.209 was removed. What was wrong with the quotes? Aranhamo 05:29, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
The episode contains some claims about Mormonism that are blatantly and demonstrably false, so this statement is inacurrate:
Although parts of Mormon history presented in the episode are correct, major portions, particularly those noted, are completely untrue. It's no big deal for people to make fun of Mormons for things that they actually believe, but it's another thing to just make things up out of whole cloth. I haven't edited the episode description in any way, nor removed anything critical of Mormons, I've just corrected the phrase that claims that the Mormon history as presented in the episode is true. Aranhamo 02:42, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
"The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights. David Whitmer wrote: “Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.)"
I hadn't noticed that there was a single quote above the Trivia section, so I moved the other quotes up together with that one and tried to format the others like the first one.
Aranhamo
02:46, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I added links to relevant Wikipedia articles. Also, I found the hat idea comes from a statement made by Emma Smith, so I removed that one. As presented in the episode it's a little misleading, but critical satire doesn't have to be totally accurate. Aranhamo 03:44, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
In the trivia section, it says:
"This episode's falsified descriptions of Mormonism and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a whole, was very controversial and caused a lot of upset from Mormons and non-Mormons alike"
I'm wondering if there might be a more neutral way of putting this. Perhaps:
"This episode's descriptions of Mormonism and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was disputed by many, causing controversy and emotional upset to Mormons and non-Mormons alike."
This is obviously a very sensitive subject, but why is there so much commotion about this episode? South Park has poked fun at Afganistan, Canada, Iraq, as well as celebrities such as Mel Gibson. Matt Stone and Trey Parker make a living from making fun of people! Even racial jokes, particularly in the episode ' With Apologies to Jesse Jackson', barely got a reply. So, I think this a loy of fuss over a relatively non-contrivertial topic! 89.145.205.223 20:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
"While the episode says no one but Smith saw the plates, eleven persons besides Smith claimed in published declarations to have seen (in the case of eight, to have touched) the plates. The Testimony of Three Witnesses; The Testimony of Eight Witnesses" Could we get some npov sources for this?-- 71.97.147.120 19:31, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Rice Krispies squares are a popular dessert in Mormon culture? That's news to this Mormon. I grew up in LA (not exactly a Mormon-dominated town), and you could buy Rice Krispies Treats in the grocery store. Also, it was big news here in Utah several years ago when Hawaii surpassed Utah in Jello consumption. Aranhamo 21:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Jello molds, with random fruit in it, right (ooh, lime jello with carrot shavings! How daring!)? :-D For the rice krispies, I think it sort of fits with the general themes of the socials, full-family meals, and LDS diet, where most treats are super-high in sugars (jello, rice crispies, ice cream), super low in nutritional value (jello, rice crispies, ice cream), and super cheap (jello, rice crispies, ice cream)... but maybe that's just a UT/AZ/CO thing (I grew up in AZ). WRT refs, no, I don't have/know of citations yet either, but I do remember an amusing article about LDS sugar consumption being unusually high, countering unusually low caffiene intake).. I'll look for ref's, or at least some explanation of *why* the crispies are in the show. Ronabop 07:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
They're supposed to be depicted as a family snack. Besides, the family made them themselves, remember the microwave/oven ringing? (then again they could have been bought to cook and eat) It's not really anything to do with Mormons, I don't think. 89.145.205.223 20:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I've trimmed this section. I understand that some people may be offended by the episode, but taking up a third of the article to refute the charges is unnecessary, and some portions of this defense are either subjective or irrelevant. I took out the paragraph about the proper name of the Church (which shouldn't be an issue) and the satire of Smith's acceptance by the community (yes, he was rejected, but South Park is doing a satire and doesn't show the town embracing Smith either).-- Idols of Mud 23:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
That's just an opinion of someone reading over this whole thing, I'm not changing any thing in the article just giving my two cents. 24.128.53.252 ( talk) 03:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I think this page should be renamed to "All About Mormons (South Park)". Having never done this before, the warnings were enough to scare me out of it (I'm thinking unintended consequences). Any one up to it? Thanks. Leon7 19:32, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I guarantee that it is 100% accurate. - mikecucuk 10:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Just added another one. It's a continuity error, and, like always, it's 100% accurate. mikecucuk 18:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know who took out my previous posting in the Goofs section, but I would never post something that I knew wasn't correct. That just flies in the face of Wikipedia policy. So, I restored the goof. Please discuss this with me first before making changes. Thank You. mikecucuk 19:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Under the inaccuracies heading, it says that though it takes the family only a few days to convert to Mormonism, in real life it would take 'a couple of weeks to a few months'. The timeframe here is nothing to do with Mormons, and more to do with the stupidity and susceptibility of Randy Marsh (I'm not saying that you have to be stupid to become a Mormon, just that it was stupid to convert with so little information).-- Jcvamp 03:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
This article documents the South Park episode, so I've removed all external commentary. I've added some "See also" links and fixed one of the "External links". Now, you South Park supporters had better get your act together and find some references or one of those people who like to delete articles without references with have all of Wikipedia policy on their side. Even articles condeming this episode for its inaccurate portrayals would save it from deletion. (Hint: This is where I think you'll find the most references.) — Val42 04:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The full title of this episode is "All About the Mormons?" [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metalrobot ( talk • contribs) 04:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC) Title should be changed to "All About The Mormons?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mackay64 ( talk • contribs) 20:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Title still needs to be changed to "All About the Mormons?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCno10 ( talk • contribs) 20:56, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Cite?
Sharon calls Randy " Clubber Lang", the name of Mr. T's character in Rocky III.
Alastairward ( talk) 17:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't the main character a Jehovah's Witness, not a Mormon?
Have you seen the south park episode? They never mention mormon merriages, although up until the late 19th century, they might have had a point. 02:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.89.227.161 ( talk)
Good point, I forgot about that. The opposite of "Smart" is indeed "Dumb", not "Dum". :P Cirt ( talk) 18:29, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
What is the official, set in concrete, title for this episode? The DVD set lists it as "All About Mormons?" and this is the title used in TV guides also. Until I saw this Wikipedia page I had never seen it referred to as "All About The Mormons?" Pete3194 ( talk) 00:40, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
The final link about the LDS Church's response to the episode is actually a link to an article about HBO's "Big Love". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.101.171.148 ( talk) 23:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Oy vey! Will everyone just stop using this page as a place to attack Mormons? People keep making claims and assertions that are either completely unverifiable or are demonstrably false; they're usually little more than misunderstandings, opinions, or thinly-veiled, emotional criticisms of the religion itself. E.G.: People who have not actually read the Book of Mormon and are not actually familiar with the narrative it contains, should refrain from inserting their own interpretations of what they may at one point have heard someone else say they think they heard about the book. They have no more place airing their grievances here than they do attempting to insert a rant against the finer points of halakhic law in the page for "Jewbilee," or a tirade against the Umayyad dynasty in the page about "Cartoon Wars." From what I can see, the single most biased (and usually antagonistic) pages on Wikipedia are the ones dedicated to religious traditions...It's even bleeding over into the cartoon sections! This page is dedicated to an episode of South Park, not a formal critique of (or, what is more, an apology for) Mormonism! -- Awakeandalive1, May 11, 2006
"The mob could've simply been anti-polygamy, since Smith was into that sorta thing." <-------- This is the sort of moronic statement that I hear all of the time. I don't believe the mob killed Smith solely because of a disagreement on Polygamy, which is absurd because Biblical evidence abounds of ancient patriarchs participating in plural marriage with divine favor when commanded. They were apparently also disagreeing with the Mormon doctrinal principles of NOT MURDERING and FOLLOWING THE LAWS OF THE LAND. Absurd absurd absurd. 203.131.167.26 09:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Did a Mormon work on this page? Do I really have to ask....
Don't you know? The Mormons created Wikipedia.
-G
Mormons have far too much interest in this page. Let's make a "no mormon" rule on this page. Kritish5951 05:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
So much for that. 89.145.205.223 19:55, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
This page is so heavily biased I don't even know where to begin. And the only rescue, the link to an allegedly "critical" analysis of the mormons is not at all critical, but biased as well. This article is now very close to propaganda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.242.231.245 ( talk • contribs) 11:49, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't know why the section with Quotes added by 24.87.117.209 was removed. What was wrong with the quotes? Aranhamo 05:29, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
The episode contains some claims about Mormonism that are blatantly and demonstrably false, so this statement is inacurrate:
Although parts of Mormon history presented in the episode are correct, major portions, particularly those noted, are completely untrue. It's no big deal for people to make fun of Mormons for things that they actually believe, but it's another thing to just make things up out of whole cloth. I haven't edited the episode description in any way, nor removed anything critical of Mormons, I've just corrected the phrase that claims that the Mormon history as presented in the episode is true. Aranhamo 02:42, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
"The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights. David Whitmer wrote: “Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.)"
I hadn't noticed that there was a single quote above the Trivia section, so I moved the other quotes up together with that one and tried to format the others like the first one.
Aranhamo
02:46, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I added links to relevant Wikipedia articles. Also, I found the hat idea comes from a statement made by Emma Smith, so I removed that one. As presented in the episode it's a little misleading, but critical satire doesn't have to be totally accurate. Aranhamo 03:44, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
In the trivia section, it says:
"This episode's falsified descriptions of Mormonism and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a whole, was very controversial and caused a lot of upset from Mormons and non-Mormons alike"
I'm wondering if there might be a more neutral way of putting this. Perhaps:
"This episode's descriptions of Mormonism and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was disputed by many, causing controversy and emotional upset to Mormons and non-Mormons alike."
This is obviously a very sensitive subject, but why is there so much commotion about this episode? South Park has poked fun at Afganistan, Canada, Iraq, as well as celebrities such as Mel Gibson. Matt Stone and Trey Parker make a living from making fun of people! Even racial jokes, particularly in the episode ' With Apologies to Jesse Jackson', barely got a reply. So, I think this a loy of fuss over a relatively non-contrivertial topic! 89.145.205.223 20:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
"While the episode says no one but Smith saw the plates, eleven persons besides Smith claimed in published declarations to have seen (in the case of eight, to have touched) the plates. The Testimony of Three Witnesses; The Testimony of Eight Witnesses" Could we get some npov sources for this?-- 71.97.147.120 19:31, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Rice Krispies squares are a popular dessert in Mormon culture? That's news to this Mormon. I grew up in LA (not exactly a Mormon-dominated town), and you could buy Rice Krispies Treats in the grocery store. Also, it was big news here in Utah several years ago when Hawaii surpassed Utah in Jello consumption. Aranhamo 21:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Jello molds, with random fruit in it, right (ooh, lime jello with carrot shavings! How daring!)? :-D For the rice krispies, I think it sort of fits with the general themes of the socials, full-family meals, and LDS diet, where most treats are super-high in sugars (jello, rice crispies, ice cream), super low in nutritional value (jello, rice crispies, ice cream), and super cheap (jello, rice crispies, ice cream)... but maybe that's just a UT/AZ/CO thing (I grew up in AZ). WRT refs, no, I don't have/know of citations yet either, but I do remember an amusing article about LDS sugar consumption being unusually high, countering unusually low caffiene intake).. I'll look for ref's, or at least some explanation of *why* the crispies are in the show. Ronabop 07:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
They're supposed to be depicted as a family snack. Besides, the family made them themselves, remember the microwave/oven ringing? (then again they could have been bought to cook and eat) It's not really anything to do with Mormons, I don't think. 89.145.205.223 20:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I've trimmed this section. I understand that some people may be offended by the episode, but taking up a third of the article to refute the charges is unnecessary, and some portions of this defense are either subjective or irrelevant. I took out the paragraph about the proper name of the Church (which shouldn't be an issue) and the satire of Smith's acceptance by the community (yes, he was rejected, but South Park is doing a satire and doesn't show the town embracing Smith either).-- Idols of Mud 23:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
That's just an opinion of someone reading over this whole thing, I'm not changing any thing in the article just giving my two cents. 24.128.53.252 ( talk) 03:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I think this page should be renamed to "All About Mormons (South Park)". Having never done this before, the warnings were enough to scare me out of it (I'm thinking unintended consequences). Any one up to it? Thanks. Leon7 19:32, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I guarantee that it is 100% accurate. - mikecucuk 10:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Just added another one. It's a continuity error, and, like always, it's 100% accurate. mikecucuk 18:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know who took out my previous posting in the Goofs section, but I would never post something that I knew wasn't correct. That just flies in the face of Wikipedia policy. So, I restored the goof. Please discuss this with me first before making changes. Thank You. mikecucuk 19:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Under the inaccuracies heading, it says that though it takes the family only a few days to convert to Mormonism, in real life it would take 'a couple of weeks to a few months'. The timeframe here is nothing to do with Mormons, and more to do with the stupidity and susceptibility of Randy Marsh (I'm not saying that you have to be stupid to become a Mormon, just that it was stupid to convert with so little information).-- Jcvamp 03:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
This article documents the South Park episode, so I've removed all external commentary. I've added some "See also" links and fixed one of the "External links". Now, you South Park supporters had better get your act together and find some references or one of those people who like to delete articles without references with have all of Wikipedia policy on their side. Even articles condeming this episode for its inaccurate portrayals would save it from deletion. (Hint: This is where I think you'll find the most references.) — Val42 04:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The full title of this episode is "All About the Mormons?" [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metalrobot ( talk • contribs) 04:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC) Title should be changed to "All About The Mormons?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mackay64 ( talk • contribs) 20:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Title still needs to be changed to "All About the Mormons?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCno10 ( talk • contribs) 20:56, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Cite?
Sharon calls Randy " Clubber Lang", the name of Mr. T's character in Rocky III.
Alastairward ( talk) 17:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't the main character a Jehovah's Witness, not a Mormon?
Have you seen the south park episode? They never mention mormon merriages, although up until the late 19th century, they might have had a point. 02:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.89.227.161 ( talk)
Good point, I forgot about that. The opposite of "Smart" is indeed "Dumb", not "Dum". :P Cirt ( talk) 18:29, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
What is the official, set in concrete, title for this episode? The DVD set lists it as "All About Mormons?" and this is the title used in TV guides also. Until I saw this Wikipedia page I had never seen it referred to as "All About The Mormons?" Pete3194 ( talk) 00:40, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
The final link about the LDS Church's response to the episode is actually a link to an article about HBO's "Big Love". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.101.171.148 ( talk) 23:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)