This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Alfred Loisy article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
the page: http://www.bautz.de/bbkl/l/loisy.shtml says he was born on 28th Feb. 1857 in Ambrières (Marne), and he died on 1st June 1940 in Ceffonds (Haute-Marne) - may it helps :-)
and is it possible maybe that someone can copy and translate this article into the german wikipedia? - this would be very nice - Thank you
Fr Alfred Loisy did NOT come into conflict with the so-called Church conservatives, but rather, was found in decent of the Church's orthodox beliefs and teachings. In addition, according to Loisy own personal writings, he suffered from no faith in the Christian religion and the divinity of Christ.
I've refined the translation of "Jésus annonçait le Royaume et c'est l'Église qui est venue’". My rationale:
- Jmc 20:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
I happen to disagree. I much prefer "Jesus was announcing the Kingdom of God, and it is the Church that came".
The contrast in Loisy's remark is the heralding of a new age ("annoncait") and the appearance of a different phenomenon ("et c'est...qui est venue"). It is important to save the contrast in English.
Moreover the use of "was announcing" marks the continuation in duration of the action. It's not the action of a definite time (as "he announced in March that he was going to go to the Temple"), but a prolonged action over time, in fact over his whole life. "He was announcing" means he was doing it all the time, obsessively, unremittingly. So yes, the idea of "preaching" is conserved in "was announcing", but "announcing" far better preserves the original French contrast between "annoncer" and "venir", that is "announcing" and "came". We have a herald going around the countryside and the city clamoring for a new arrival, and the surprising appearance of something totally different. "Appeared" would be a good meaning of the French text, but "came" is much stronger and faithful to the text.
It's subtle, but the English must preserve the strength of the French language, and not substitute an interpretation of the thought by a commentator. There's no intimation of "preaching" at all in the French. The meaning is about "heralding", trumpeting a future arrival, going around and harassing people with the repetition of the same news. The problem with "preaching" is that it relates to communicating ideas, doctrines, and it does not catch the concept of predicting an arrival.
--
ROO BOOKAROO (
talk) 10:12, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
(UTC)
-- ROO BOOKAROO ( talk) 10:36, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, amazing, no effort at a bibliography. This cannot be considered a professional article.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Alfred Loisy article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
the page: http://www.bautz.de/bbkl/l/loisy.shtml says he was born on 28th Feb. 1857 in Ambrières (Marne), and he died on 1st June 1940 in Ceffonds (Haute-Marne) - may it helps :-)
and is it possible maybe that someone can copy and translate this article into the german wikipedia? - this would be very nice - Thank you
Fr Alfred Loisy did NOT come into conflict with the so-called Church conservatives, but rather, was found in decent of the Church's orthodox beliefs and teachings. In addition, according to Loisy own personal writings, he suffered from no faith in the Christian religion and the divinity of Christ.
I've refined the translation of "Jésus annonçait le Royaume et c'est l'Église qui est venue’". My rationale:
- Jmc 20:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
I happen to disagree. I much prefer "Jesus was announcing the Kingdom of God, and it is the Church that came".
The contrast in Loisy's remark is the heralding of a new age ("annoncait") and the appearance of a different phenomenon ("et c'est...qui est venue"). It is important to save the contrast in English.
Moreover the use of "was announcing" marks the continuation in duration of the action. It's not the action of a definite time (as "he announced in March that he was going to go to the Temple"), but a prolonged action over time, in fact over his whole life. "He was announcing" means he was doing it all the time, obsessively, unremittingly. So yes, the idea of "preaching" is conserved in "was announcing", but "announcing" far better preserves the original French contrast between "annoncer" and "venir", that is "announcing" and "came". We have a herald going around the countryside and the city clamoring for a new arrival, and the surprising appearance of something totally different. "Appeared" would be a good meaning of the French text, but "came" is much stronger and faithful to the text.
It's subtle, but the English must preserve the strength of the French language, and not substitute an interpretation of the thought by a commentator. There's no intimation of "preaching" at all in the French. The meaning is about "heralding", trumpeting a future arrival, going around and harassing people with the repetition of the same news. The problem with "preaching" is that it relates to communicating ideas, doctrines, and it does not catch the concept of predicting an arrival.
--
ROO BOOKAROO (
talk) 10:12, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
(UTC)
-- ROO BOOKAROO ( talk) 10:36, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, amazing, no effort at a bibliography. This cannot be considered a professional article.