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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
I don't think the article on Alexander is complete without referring to the Bibilical prophesies of the book of Daniel, chapter 8. The passage is quite clear and I don't know of anyone that disputes it is directly referring to Alexander's destruction of the Media-Persian empire - regardless of whether they believe it was written as prophesy or history. The writing in Daniel points to being written in 600BC or before, and even those who believe it was postdated would put it within 100 to 200 years of Alexanders reign.
Regardless of ones viewpoint on the Bible, the historical relevance of books, particularly ones such as Daniel, is unquestioned. The fact that Alexander is referred to specifically in the Bible is rare for anyone outside the history of ancient Israel.
This is particularly true if the portion on the Quran's (very sketchy) references to Alexander are retained in the article. At best this is hearsay on the Daniel legend written nearly a century after the fact, and therefore offers little historical merit.
In Alexander (disambiguation), it is written as Alexander the Great (336-323BC) it should be 356-323BC
-- 1 Maccabees chapter 1, verses 1 - 7 contains a satisfying very clear account about Alexander occupying the area. But I just found out not all versions of the Bible does not contain the Books of the Maccabees but the Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition do. The King James Version of the Bible also have The First Book of the Maccabees. Jpogi 03:16, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I put the quote from Arrian in a few months ago and now realise I should have given a citation. Now the page is locked I can't make good my error. Can whoever still has rights put the following citation against the quotation of Arrian at the end of the greek and latin source section: 'The Campaigns of Alexander', Arrian, Book One, Page 12.
My version is the Penguin Classics edition ( ISBN 0-140-44253-7) from the translation by Aubrey De Selincourt
(its on page 67 in this edition, I'm not sure of the citation protocol in Wikipedia so I have given both 'sources') Harecourt 19:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
>>>Funny not to find references to 'Alexander' by Theodorus Dodge. A very readable history.
Why is this protected? Hawk27 00:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
"It originated from the vergina tombs on a golden casket from the tomb of Philip, father of Alexander The Great. But this archaeological find had already long been a part of Greek identity - causing a massive diplomatic row""
"Similar abuses occurred during the Balkans conflicts following Yugoslavia's break-up - not just in Macedonia, but throughout the region, argued Stasa Babic of Belgrade University"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3372117.stm
The article use to say that, following the razing of Thebes in 335 BC that,
218.111.209.95 recently changed this to read:
I've again changed this to:
I've based this change solely on the cited reference, Plutarch, Phocion 17. Does anyone have sources which support the other two version over the current version above?
Paul August ☎ 19:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Should a new article dealing with the military campaigns of Alexander be created that will be similar to say the Pelopennesian War or the Corinthian War or should we expand this article so that it becomes a good description of his war? This article is already 74kb, expansions should be limited yet Alexander's campaign and strategy deserves more space. Ikokki 09:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Calling it "Alexander the Great" seems to be very biased. Not everyone thinks he was "Great", no even "good". Do we title the articles on Frederick II of Prussia or Alfonso III of León "Frederick the Great" or "Alfonso the Great", even they are known as such? No. Kings and monarchs are usually known by their name and reign number, in the order of "Name # of X country". Why should Alexander's article be title differently? Just because some see him as "great" does not mean it is a general consensus, nor that we should present such a biased view as part of an article's title.-- The Gonz 08:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Alexander only destroyed the Persian Empire that started in about 1500 B.C. and by the time he started returning home from the banks of the Indus, people had already started rebelling, so should this article really be titled, 'Alexander the great (suggesting he was great)?' Dr.Ramanand 00:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)Ramanand
Alexander "conquered most of the known world", says the article. Really ? He did not conquer almost any territories north of the kingdom he inherited or west from Greece. How far was the closest point in the North from his Macedonian capital he never ruled ? 100 kilometers ? 200 kilometers ? Hardly qualifies as 'all world' !!! And I do not think 'known world' did not include local superpowers like Carthage at least. Warbola 22:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Exactly, I mean, if you could conquer the world through continous victories, Napoleon would have conquered the world, as would have Trajan, and almost every single general EVER. There would have been so many generals like that we probably be living in a Greco-Roman-Chinese-French-African-Russian-German-Indian-Japanese-Korean-Mongolian-Hun-Visigoth-Holy Roman Empire-Egyptian-Mesopotamian-Babylonian-Assyrian-Aztec-Mayan-Phoenician-Sea People-British-Ottoman-and whatever the heck else-monarchy/democracy/oligarchy/republic mega empire, which we don't.
Speaking about the naming: what Alexander's name in the contemporary Macedonian doing in the beginning of the article? (Sorry if that question has been asked before.) There is a link to the article on him in that language, surely it enough, isn't it? If no objections will be raised, I'll remove it.-- Barbatus 20:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello wikipedia.There is something in this article that made me sad.It is written:"non macedonians,non greeks...".This make me think that the world believes the macedonians aren't greeks.And now i wanna ask.Which language were speeking the macedonians;perhaps greek.Haven't they the same gods as the ancient greeks,like zeus,neptun,mercury etc or not;I wanna say with this that history has been written once and cannot being written again from the beginning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.5.49.160 ( talk) 20:30, 29 December 2006 (UTC).
Could somebody with more background on Alexander confirm (or refute) these transliterations of his name:
If some or all of these are correct then they should be added to the article, no? Rumpelstiltskin223 00:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello All,
I just wanted to make a clarification. Alexander is not mentioned in the Arthashastra. Actually, Alexander is not mentioned anywhere in an ancient Indian source. He only comes into parlance after the Turkish Invasions (Sikandar). In fact, the only Greek ruler to campaign in India who was mentioned in an ancient Indian source is Menander. Nevertheless, with respect to furthering this effort, there does exist a pali transliteration of Alexandria (presumably Alexandria-Kapisa or Eschate), which is Alasanda. I just wanted to point that out. I can provide sources to note these points as well.
Regards,
Devanampriya
Porus was a small local ruler in Punjab, but it's known that the knowledge of a huge Magadha army was a reason that forced Alexander to retreat. It still can't be said, though, whether the Indians were aware of him at that point. deeptrivia ( talk) 06:30, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I read the part where it says the concept of homosexuality was different during Alexander's time. One form of this was called Pederasty. I don't recall seeing that link in the article. You should mention it. Pederastic relationships were also big in Edo period Japan. This was called Shudo. You might want to liken one to the other to show that all cultures had some form of this and that it was considered normal. ( Ghostexorcist 11:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC))
Pederasty aye... its funny that Macedonians today use that word "PEDER" for the same meaning...just more evidence that todays Macedonians are decendants of those in ALEKSANDAR THE GREATS time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.182.162.187 ( talk • contribs) 07:19, March 12, 2007 (UTC)
To write in this article that Alexander was having homosexual relationships is just silly and very uneducated. The idea that ancient greeks were gay was created and is being communicated the last 30 years. Leave this section here, only if there are contemporary sources and only if they are unbiased (not rivals of Alexander). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.86.154.252 ( talk • contribs).
With the recent attempts to put Alexander's name in Macedonian into the lead, I'm wondering if we should move or delete the list of Alexander's names in different languages. To me, it doesn't seem like the first paragraph should be telling us what Alexander is called in Aramaic. The list could either be moved to a section of the article, or just be removed. --Akhilleus ( talk) 20:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi all. This is a great article - fascinating. There are WP words to avoid though [4]. I believe this can be adhered to and still have readable comprehensible English throughout. The argumentative phrases are only minor but its a good idea to be careful with debate. If I have removed any argument by a scholar then feel free to add quotes with a source ref. But howevers, whereas, etc are considered a bit argumentative and neutral writing can make this article even better. AlanBarnet 05:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello All,
Although I absolutely completely dumbfoundly do appreciate the efforts of the creator of this map to posit Alexander's empire in context, I do want to note that the eastern borders of Alexander, as represented here, are inaccurate. All other maps show Alexander's eastern limit as the Beas in the North and Sindh in the South. This map shows his borders inaccurately extending well into India to include Indian Punjab, Rajasthan, and Kutch. Please let me know if you have any questions. I would appreciate it if these changes could be.
Regards, Devanampriya
It is not properly executed as there are plenty of Alexander maps that counter that. Also, I don't believe I denied expansion to the beas, but you are off the mark with Rajasthan. Since you are precisely sourcing from this book, could you post a relevant quote? I believe instead of engaging in pointless debate, it would only make sense to observe the conventions recognized by the vast majority of maps. Moreover, it is internally inconsistent, thereby confusing the reader. Let us avoid original research and stick to the recognized authorities. Devanampriya 20:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
PHG, if our past discussions demonstrate anything, we must exercise caution regardless of the source. Please do not hide behind the respectable name of Harvard University Press, which after all, published and did not author the book. Tarn was published by cambridge, and i believe we've already gone over his infallibility. Regardless, the request was for a direct quote stating that the Indus river's path was hundreds of miles off course, cutting into Rajasthan. In fact, there is a strong possibility that this was mistaken for the Sarasvati, which recent satellite imagery confirmed its path through Rajasthan. Hence my request for the quote. Again, this contradicts the two other maps on the page. And the two maps are not near identical, let alone identical. You may want to take a look at a modern map to confirm this. This question/s are warranted, so let's not cut off the discussion. Devanampriya 01:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello, There were no changes made to the world map. It still shows Kutch (Indian territory immediately west of the Indus delta) and half of Rajasthan as part of Alexander's empire, which is false. Please follow the conventions of the main Alexander map on the page. Devanampriya 05:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
When there is no evidence that Alexander conquered parts of present day Sind, Rajasthan or Kutch, I don't see why these parts should be shown as areas he conquered in the map Dr.Ramanand 00:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
This article certainly contains many interesting facts about Alexander, and its length ensures that most people would learn something by reading it.
However, according to the GA criterias, everything that is challenged or likely to be challenged must be referenced, in an unambiguous style such as inline references. The article fails this criteria in several places. I have collected some unsourced and possibly questionable statements:
Check through the article, make sure these issues and other similar issues are correct. Otherwise it will be failed again. I wish you good luck.
Fred- Chess 23:05, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Within the last 2 or 3 days, there have been 6 or more instances of vandalism on this article. Maybe an administrator should block this article for a while. — Black and White ( TALK CONTRIBS) 22:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I just saw another instance of vandalism today. Before I could do anything it had been changed back. Kudos to everyone for keeping an eye out, but maybe indeed it should be blocked for a while? NotElizabeth 14:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
PixOnTrax 20:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
His likeness varies amongst artists.
I would like to include a link to Alexander's bematists and the distances they recorded on the campaign, but I have no idea where to add the link. Perhaps somebody more familiar with the article can do that. See bematist. Regards Gun Powder Ma 02:10, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
do any of you know the Persian tradition of 'bowing'? Alexander demanded this from his Macedonian Generals, but I have forgotten the name, this was definitely post Fusion Policy. ( Seong0980 04:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC) )
We are up to 78k in this article. Should we spin off Alexander the Great's personal relationships? Haiduc 01:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Seems like a good idea to me. --Akhilleus ( talk) 02:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
The article stated the following: "Alexander, after the meeting with his officer Coenus, was convinced that it was better to return. Alexander was forced to turn south. Along the way his army ran into the Malli clans (in modern day Multan). The Malli were the most warlike clans in India during that period. Alexander's army challenged the Malli, and the ensuing battle led them to the Malli citadel, which the Malli successfully defended against him[10]. Alexander himself was wounded in the attack by a Malli arrow. Eventually, the Malli and Alexander made a truce and his army moved on, severely weakened by this battle[11]."
Neither source supports the above text, with the former (from the Baldwin Project) indicating both the taking of the citadel and a massacre of all Mallians within, and the latter stating that surviving Mallians surrendered to Alexander's forces. This is far from a successful defense and a simply truce.
Given this, I have changed the text to read thus: "Alexander, after the meeting with his officer Coenus, was convinced that it was better to return. Alexander was forced to turn south. Along the way his army ran into the Malli clans (in modern day Multan). The Malli were the most warlike clans in India during that period. Alexander's army challenged the Malli, and the ensuing battle led them to the Malli citadel. During the assault, Alexander himself was wounded seriously by a Malli arrow. His forces, believing their king dead, took the citadel and unleashed their fury on the Malli who had taken refuge within it [10]. Following this, the surviving Malli surrendered to Alexander's forces, and his beleaguered army moved on [11]."
I'm a new user, and I apologize if I have unwittingly broken any conventions with my first interaction here. I have enjoyed studying Alexandros for years, and am looking forward to debating and discussing his life and works objectively and lucidly with y'all. I think it goes without saying that his was a very interesting life, whose details and facts were left in woefully short supply for us.
/R Phoebus Americanos 06:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
The first sentance of the "Fall of the Persian Empire" section is a fragment. Also, the section instantly begins with Alexander marching into Persia. The section doesn't give any background information and/or intro to the invasion. I'm not an expert on Alexander the Great, but I just wanted to point that out so accurate information could be entered. Brian 16:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
story is that his remains disappeared about the same time the Venetians 'found' the remains of St. Mark and brought them to Venice. 'Someone' may have done a swap there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mepossem ( talk • contribs) 18:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC).
There is definitely no true source in Arabic that calls Alexander the Great as "Dhul-Qarnayn" (the two-horned one). This statement is false. Dhul-Qarnayn is a great prophet in islam who roamed the earth to spread goodness and diminish evil-doers. There is no actual or historical connection between the two. Alexander the Great is called "Aliskander Almakadoni" which simply means (Alexander of Macedonia). Can somebody change it please beacause i don't know how.
I need the source, please. "Throughout the Roman world, the one language spoken everywhere was Alexander's Greek". It sounds a bullshit...
Jack
00:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, there was not one Indian account of the Alexander-Porus encounter. It is quite natural that Greek accounts glorified Alexander's foray into India. The episode of Ambhi (Omphis) must have been very true because many such self-destructing incidents, fuelled by envy and jealousy, happened in Indian history. Oliver Stone has projected a picture quite sympathetic to Porus. Does it have any historical evidence? There was a story that Rukshana (Roxana) visted Porus's tent the day before the battle and tied Rakhi to Porus's wrist (Rakhi is an Indian festival/tradition during which sisters tie a sacred thred to brothers' wrists seeking protection to their honour and family). During the battle Alexander fell down the horse wounded by an arrow from an Indian soldier. Porus jumped at him and raised the sword to Kill Alexander. While raising the hand he watched the Rakhi tied by Rukshana and overpowered by sentiment he left Alexander untouched. The Greek soldiers carried away the wounded Alexander to the camp. I do not know if this story had any historical support. Can anyone help with the sources? Kumarrao 15:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Few stories on this have historical support. This one is perhaps as good as the stories told by Arrian which is the basis of most of this article. deeptrivia ( talk) 06:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi,
Harshal 15:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
It is said that Alexander died eight months after Hephaestion. I think that he could not live with out him. He may have died of some other thing. But I beleive he died because he missed his lover and wanted to join him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.74.119.230 ( talk) 00:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
well the title "the great" could have came from the fact that he was a great solider a great leader and aparently a son of zeus so posibly he was a god him self —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.185.168.10 ( talk) 19:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC).
There's a little edit war going on about this project's banner. Now, this edit war is even sillier than most, because the banner has been on the page all along, as part of the hidden infoboxes you can see when you click on "more" at the top of the page (for me, it's showing right above the archive box). Furthermore, the article is clearly within the scope of the LGBT project. Plenty of articles dealing with the ancient Greco-Roman world, including many biographies (e.g. Sappho), are covered by this wikiproject. While I think we'd all agree that classifying an ancient Greek as a homosexual is anachronistic, at least one prominent modern scholar of Alexander, Robin Lane Fox, has said that Alexander was bisexual. Furthermore, the phenomenon of same-sex relationships in antiquity is widely studied. Any classics article that has material about same-sex relationships is covered by the LGBT project, and there is evidence that Alexander was in a pederastic relationship with two males (or, at least, relationships that are described in ancient sources as being erastes-eromenos relationships). --Akhilleus ( talk) 03:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
About the pederastic relationships, you couldn't be more wrong, and insulting (again, comparing ancient times with modern ones...) In Ancient Times, an 16 year old boy was considered to have reached the adult age. And who is the other boy?? The only boy we know that he had sexual intercourse with for sure is Bagoas (who was 16/17, that is, he WAS an adult), and Hefaistion was the same age Alexander was. Who is the other boy you are referring to?
So people, think like a 4th century BC person, not like a modern one, to judge s.o. from Ancient Greece... -- Bucephala 21:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
You might want to look at etymological fallacy. You might also want to investigate the history of the words mythos and oikonomia--those didn't mean the same thing in ancient Greek as "myth" and "economy" in modern English. For instance, the Oxford Classical Dictionary entry on "economy, Greek" says: "Our 'economy' is derived from the ancient Greek word oikonomia, but this meant originally and usually the management of a private household (oikos) than that of a 'national' economy."
Furthermore, you're right that we shouldn't call ancient Greek people lesbian, homosexual, etc. Surprisingly, that's something that's said in homosexuality in ancient Greece, which also explains the sense in which we can talk about homosexuality in the ancient world. As for the meaning of "pederasty", have you looked at pederasty in ancient Greece yet? --Akhilleus ( talk) 15:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Please add something about Lanike nursing Alexander as a child. That article needs more links and this article should be an obvious one to link to it. I don't make enough edits myself (I'm just on a university computer now) to justify starting an account to add the link myself. Thanks! -- 164.107.223.217 22:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I recall reading somewhere that Alexander referred to his predecessors, allegedly two men have before already tried themselves out in a campaign to conquer India. However I don't recall history remembers any at all.
Does anyone know anything 'bout this? -- PaxEquilibrium 20:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
I don't think the article on Alexander is complete without referring to the Bibilical prophesies of the book of Daniel, chapter 8. The passage is quite clear and I don't know of anyone that disputes it is directly referring to Alexander's destruction of the Media-Persian empire - regardless of whether they believe it was written as prophesy or history. The writing in Daniel points to being written in 600BC or before, and even those who believe it was postdated would put it within 100 to 200 years of Alexanders reign.
Regardless of ones viewpoint on the Bible, the historical relevance of books, particularly ones such as Daniel, is unquestioned. The fact that Alexander is referred to specifically in the Bible is rare for anyone outside the history of ancient Israel.
This is particularly true if the portion on the Quran's (very sketchy) references to Alexander are retained in the article. At best this is hearsay on the Daniel legend written nearly a century after the fact, and therefore offers little historical merit.
In Alexander (disambiguation), it is written as Alexander the Great (336-323BC) it should be 356-323BC
-- 1 Maccabees chapter 1, verses 1 - 7 contains a satisfying very clear account about Alexander occupying the area. But I just found out not all versions of the Bible does not contain the Books of the Maccabees but the Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition do. The King James Version of the Bible also have The First Book of the Maccabees. Jpogi 03:16, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I put the quote from Arrian in a few months ago and now realise I should have given a citation. Now the page is locked I can't make good my error. Can whoever still has rights put the following citation against the quotation of Arrian at the end of the greek and latin source section: 'The Campaigns of Alexander', Arrian, Book One, Page 12.
My version is the Penguin Classics edition ( ISBN 0-140-44253-7) from the translation by Aubrey De Selincourt
(its on page 67 in this edition, I'm not sure of the citation protocol in Wikipedia so I have given both 'sources') Harecourt 19:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
>>>Funny not to find references to 'Alexander' by Theodorus Dodge. A very readable history.
Why is this protected? Hawk27 00:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
"It originated from the vergina tombs on a golden casket from the tomb of Philip, father of Alexander The Great. But this archaeological find had already long been a part of Greek identity - causing a massive diplomatic row""
"Similar abuses occurred during the Balkans conflicts following Yugoslavia's break-up - not just in Macedonia, but throughout the region, argued Stasa Babic of Belgrade University"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3372117.stm
The article use to say that, following the razing of Thebes in 335 BC that,
218.111.209.95 recently changed this to read:
I've again changed this to:
I've based this change solely on the cited reference, Plutarch, Phocion 17. Does anyone have sources which support the other two version over the current version above?
Paul August ☎ 19:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Should a new article dealing with the military campaigns of Alexander be created that will be similar to say the Pelopennesian War or the Corinthian War or should we expand this article so that it becomes a good description of his war? This article is already 74kb, expansions should be limited yet Alexander's campaign and strategy deserves more space. Ikokki 09:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Calling it "Alexander the Great" seems to be very biased. Not everyone thinks he was "Great", no even "good". Do we title the articles on Frederick II of Prussia or Alfonso III of León "Frederick the Great" or "Alfonso the Great", even they are known as such? No. Kings and monarchs are usually known by their name and reign number, in the order of "Name # of X country". Why should Alexander's article be title differently? Just because some see him as "great" does not mean it is a general consensus, nor that we should present such a biased view as part of an article's title.-- The Gonz 08:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Alexander only destroyed the Persian Empire that started in about 1500 B.C. and by the time he started returning home from the banks of the Indus, people had already started rebelling, so should this article really be titled, 'Alexander the great (suggesting he was great)?' Dr.Ramanand 00:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)Ramanand
Alexander "conquered most of the known world", says the article. Really ? He did not conquer almost any territories north of the kingdom he inherited or west from Greece. How far was the closest point in the North from his Macedonian capital he never ruled ? 100 kilometers ? 200 kilometers ? Hardly qualifies as 'all world' !!! And I do not think 'known world' did not include local superpowers like Carthage at least. Warbola 22:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Exactly, I mean, if you could conquer the world through continous victories, Napoleon would have conquered the world, as would have Trajan, and almost every single general EVER. There would have been so many generals like that we probably be living in a Greco-Roman-Chinese-French-African-Russian-German-Indian-Japanese-Korean-Mongolian-Hun-Visigoth-Holy Roman Empire-Egyptian-Mesopotamian-Babylonian-Assyrian-Aztec-Mayan-Phoenician-Sea People-British-Ottoman-and whatever the heck else-monarchy/democracy/oligarchy/republic mega empire, which we don't.
Speaking about the naming: what Alexander's name in the contemporary Macedonian doing in the beginning of the article? (Sorry if that question has been asked before.) There is a link to the article on him in that language, surely it enough, isn't it? If no objections will be raised, I'll remove it.-- Barbatus 20:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello wikipedia.There is something in this article that made me sad.It is written:"non macedonians,non greeks...".This make me think that the world believes the macedonians aren't greeks.And now i wanna ask.Which language were speeking the macedonians;perhaps greek.Haven't they the same gods as the ancient greeks,like zeus,neptun,mercury etc or not;I wanna say with this that history has been written once and cannot being written again from the beginning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.5.49.160 ( talk) 20:30, 29 December 2006 (UTC).
Could somebody with more background on Alexander confirm (or refute) these transliterations of his name:
If some or all of these are correct then they should be added to the article, no? Rumpelstiltskin223 00:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello All,
I just wanted to make a clarification. Alexander is not mentioned in the Arthashastra. Actually, Alexander is not mentioned anywhere in an ancient Indian source. He only comes into parlance after the Turkish Invasions (Sikandar). In fact, the only Greek ruler to campaign in India who was mentioned in an ancient Indian source is Menander. Nevertheless, with respect to furthering this effort, there does exist a pali transliteration of Alexandria (presumably Alexandria-Kapisa or Eschate), which is Alasanda. I just wanted to point that out. I can provide sources to note these points as well.
Regards,
Devanampriya
Porus was a small local ruler in Punjab, but it's known that the knowledge of a huge Magadha army was a reason that forced Alexander to retreat. It still can't be said, though, whether the Indians were aware of him at that point. deeptrivia ( talk) 06:30, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I read the part where it says the concept of homosexuality was different during Alexander's time. One form of this was called Pederasty. I don't recall seeing that link in the article. You should mention it. Pederastic relationships were also big in Edo period Japan. This was called Shudo. You might want to liken one to the other to show that all cultures had some form of this and that it was considered normal. ( Ghostexorcist 11:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC))
Pederasty aye... its funny that Macedonians today use that word "PEDER" for the same meaning...just more evidence that todays Macedonians are decendants of those in ALEKSANDAR THE GREATS time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.182.162.187 ( talk • contribs) 07:19, March 12, 2007 (UTC)
To write in this article that Alexander was having homosexual relationships is just silly and very uneducated. The idea that ancient greeks were gay was created and is being communicated the last 30 years. Leave this section here, only if there are contemporary sources and only if they are unbiased (not rivals of Alexander). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.86.154.252 ( talk • contribs).
With the recent attempts to put Alexander's name in Macedonian into the lead, I'm wondering if we should move or delete the list of Alexander's names in different languages. To me, it doesn't seem like the first paragraph should be telling us what Alexander is called in Aramaic. The list could either be moved to a section of the article, or just be removed. --Akhilleus ( talk) 20:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi all. This is a great article - fascinating. There are WP words to avoid though [4]. I believe this can be adhered to and still have readable comprehensible English throughout. The argumentative phrases are only minor but its a good idea to be careful with debate. If I have removed any argument by a scholar then feel free to add quotes with a source ref. But howevers, whereas, etc are considered a bit argumentative and neutral writing can make this article even better. AlanBarnet 05:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello All,
Although I absolutely completely dumbfoundly do appreciate the efforts of the creator of this map to posit Alexander's empire in context, I do want to note that the eastern borders of Alexander, as represented here, are inaccurate. All other maps show Alexander's eastern limit as the Beas in the North and Sindh in the South. This map shows his borders inaccurately extending well into India to include Indian Punjab, Rajasthan, and Kutch. Please let me know if you have any questions. I would appreciate it if these changes could be.
Regards, Devanampriya
It is not properly executed as there are plenty of Alexander maps that counter that. Also, I don't believe I denied expansion to the beas, but you are off the mark with Rajasthan. Since you are precisely sourcing from this book, could you post a relevant quote? I believe instead of engaging in pointless debate, it would only make sense to observe the conventions recognized by the vast majority of maps. Moreover, it is internally inconsistent, thereby confusing the reader. Let us avoid original research and stick to the recognized authorities. Devanampriya 20:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
PHG, if our past discussions demonstrate anything, we must exercise caution regardless of the source. Please do not hide behind the respectable name of Harvard University Press, which after all, published and did not author the book. Tarn was published by cambridge, and i believe we've already gone over his infallibility. Regardless, the request was for a direct quote stating that the Indus river's path was hundreds of miles off course, cutting into Rajasthan. In fact, there is a strong possibility that this was mistaken for the Sarasvati, which recent satellite imagery confirmed its path through Rajasthan. Hence my request for the quote. Again, this contradicts the two other maps on the page. And the two maps are not near identical, let alone identical. You may want to take a look at a modern map to confirm this. This question/s are warranted, so let's not cut off the discussion. Devanampriya 01:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello, There were no changes made to the world map. It still shows Kutch (Indian territory immediately west of the Indus delta) and half of Rajasthan as part of Alexander's empire, which is false. Please follow the conventions of the main Alexander map on the page. Devanampriya 05:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
When there is no evidence that Alexander conquered parts of present day Sind, Rajasthan or Kutch, I don't see why these parts should be shown as areas he conquered in the map Dr.Ramanand 00:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
This article certainly contains many interesting facts about Alexander, and its length ensures that most people would learn something by reading it.
However, according to the GA criterias, everything that is challenged or likely to be challenged must be referenced, in an unambiguous style such as inline references. The article fails this criteria in several places. I have collected some unsourced and possibly questionable statements:
Check through the article, make sure these issues and other similar issues are correct. Otherwise it will be failed again. I wish you good luck.
Fred- Chess 23:05, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Within the last 2 or 3 days, there have been 6 or more instances of vandalism on this article. Maybe an administrator should block this article for a while. — Black and White ( TALK CONTRIBS) 22:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I just saw another instance of vandalism today. Before I could do anything it had been changed back. Kudos to everyone for keeping an eye out, but maybe indeed it should be blocked for a while? NotElizabeth 14:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
PixOnTrax 20:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
His likeness varies amongst artists.
I would like to include a link to Alexander's bematists and the distances they recorded on the campaign, but I have no idea where to add the link. Perhaps somebody more familiar with the article can do that. See bematist. Regards Gun Powder Ma 02:10, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
do any of you know the Persian tradition of 'bowing'? Alexander demanded this from his Macedonian Generals, but I have forgotten the name, this was definitely post Fusion Policy. ( Seong0980 04:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC) )
We are up to 78k in this article. Should we spin off Alexander the Great's personal relationships? Haiduc 01:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Seems like a good idea to me. --Akhilleus ( talk) 02:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
The article stated the following: "Alexander, after the meeting with his officer Coenus, was convinced that it was better to return. Alexander was forced to turn south. Along the way his army ran into the Malli clans (in modern day Multan). The Malli were the most warlike clans in India during that period. Alexander's army challenged the Malli, and the ensuing battle led them to the Malli citadel, which the Malli successfully defended against him[10]. Alexander himself was wounded in the attack by a Malli arrow. Eventually, the Malli and Alexander made a truce and his army moved on, severely weakened by this battle[11]."
Neither source supports the above text, with the former (from the Baldwin Project) indicating both the taking of the citadel and a massacre of all Mallians within, and the latter stating that surviving Mallians surrendered to Alexander's forces. This is far from a successful defense and a simply truce.
Given this, I have changed the text to read thus: "Alexander, after the meeting with his officer Coenus, was convinced that it was better to return. Alexander was forced to turn south. Along the way his army ran into the Malli clans (in modern day Multan). The Malli were the most warlike clans in India during that period. Alexander's army challenged the Malli, and the ensuing battle led them to the Malli citadel. During the assault, Alexander himself was wounded seriously by a Malli arrow. His forces, believing their king dead, took the citadel and unleashed their fury on the Malli who had taken refuge within it [10]. Following this, the surviving Malli surrendered to Alexander's forces, and his beleaguered army moved on [11]."
I'm a new user, and I apologize if I have unwittingly broken any conventions with my first interaction here. I have enjoyed studying Alexandros for years, and am looking forward to debating and discussing his life and works objectively and lucidly with y'all. I think it goes without saying that his was a very interesting life, whose details and facts were left in woefully short supply for us.
/R Phoebus Americanos 06:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
The first sentance of the "Fall of the Persian Empire" section is a fragment. Also, the section instantly begins with Alexander marching into Persia. The section doesn't give any background information and/or intro to the invasion. I'm not an expert on Alexander the Great, but I just wanted to point that out so accurate information could be entered. Brian 16:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
story is that his remains disappeared about the same time the Venetians 'found' the remains of St. Mark and brought them to Venice. 'Someone' may have done a swap there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mepossem ( talk • contribs) 18:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC).
There is definitely no true source in Arabic that calls Alexander the Great as "Dhul-Qarnayn" (the two-horned one). This statement is false. Dhul-Qarnayn is a great prophet in islam who roamed the earth to spread goodness and diminish evil-doers. There is no actual or historical connection between the two. Alexander the Great is called "Aliskander Almakadoni" which simply means (Alexander of Macedonia). Can somebody change it please beacause i don't know how.
I need the source, please. "Throughout the Roman world, the one language spoken everywhere was Alexander's Greek". It sounds a bullshit...
Jack
00:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, there was not one Indian account of the Alexander-Porus encounter. It is quite natural that Greek accounts glorified Alexander's foray into India. The episode of Ambhi (Omphis) must have been very true because many such self-destructing incidents, fuelled by envy and jealousy, happened in Indian history. Oliver Stone has projected a picture quite sympathetic to Porus. Does it have any historical evidence? There was a story that Rukshana (Roxana) visted Porus's tent the day before the battle and tied Rakhi to Porus's wrist (Rakhi is an Indian festival/tradition during which sisters tie a sacred thred to brothers' wrists seeking protection to their honour and family). During the battle Alexander fell down the horse wounded by an arrow from an Indian soldier. Porus jumped at him and raised the sword to Kill Alexander. While raising the hand he watched the Rakhi tied by Rukshana and overpowered by sentiment he left Alexander untouched. The Greek soldiers carried away the wounded Alexander to the camp. I do not know if this story had any historical support. Can anyone help with the sources? Kumarrao 15:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Few stories on this have historical support. This one is perhaps as good as the stories told by Arrian which is the basis of most of this article. deeptrivia ( talk) 06:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi,
Harshal 15:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
It is said that Alexander died eight months after Hephaestion. I think that he could not live with out him. He may have died of some other thing. But I beleive he died because he missed his lover and wanted to join him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.74.119.230 ( talk) 00:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
well the title "the great" could have came from the fact that he was a great solider a great leader and aparently a son of zeus so posibly he was a god him self —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.185.168.10 ( talk) 19:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC).
There's a little edit war going on about this project's banner. Now, this edit war is even sillier than most, because the banner has been on the page all along, as part of the hidden infoboxes you can see when you click on "more" at the top of the page (for me, it's showing right above the archive box). Furthermore, the article is clearly within the scope of the LGBT project. Plenty of articles dealing with the ancient Greco-Roman world, including many biographies (e.g. Sappho), are covered by this wikiproject. While I think we'd all agree that classifying an ancient Greek as a homosexual is anachronistic, at least one prominent modern scholar of Alexander, Robin Lane Fox, has said that Alexander was bisexual. Furthermore, the phenomenon of same-sex relationships in antiquity is widely studied. Any classics article that has material about same-sex relationships is covered by the LGBT project, and there is evidence that Alexander was in a pederastic relationship with two males (or, at least, relationships that are described in ancient sources as being erastes-eromenos relationships). --Akhilleus ( talk) 03:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
About the pederastic relationships, you couldn't be more wrong, and insulting (again, comparing ancient times with modern ones...) In Ancient Times, an 16 year old boy was considered to have reached the adult age. And who is the other boy?? The only boy we know that he had sexual intercourse with for sure is Bagoas (who was 16/17, that is, he WAS an adult), and Hefaistion was the same age Alexander was. Who is the other boy you are referring to?
So people, think like a 4th century BC person, not like a modern one, to judge s.o. from Ancient Greece... -- Bucephala 21:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
You might want to look at etymological fallacy. You might also want to investigate the history of the words mythos and oikonomia--those didn't mean the same thing in ancient Greek as "myth" and "economy" in modern English. For instance, the Oxford Classical Dictionary entry on "economy, Greek" says: "Our 'economy' is derived from the ancient Greek word oikonomia, but this meant originally and usually the management of a private household (oikos) than that of a 'national' economy."
Furthermore, you're right that we shouldn't call ancient Greek people lesbian, homosexual, etc. Surprisingly, that's something that's said in homosexuality in ancient Greece, which also explains the sense in which we can talk about homosexuality in the ancient world. As for the meaning of "pederasty", have you looked at pederasty in ancient Greece yet? --Akhilleus ( talk) 15:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Please add something about Lanike nursing Alexander as a child. That article needs more links and this article should be an obvious one to link to it. I don't make enough edits myself (I'm just on a university computer now) to justify starting an account to add the link myself. Thanks! -- 164.107.223.217 22:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I recall reading somewhere that Alexander referred to his predecessors, allegedly two men have before already tried themselves out in a campaign to conquer India. However I don't recall history remembers any at all.
Does anyone know anything 'bout this? -- PaxEquilibrium 20:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)