This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Alexander Van der Bellen article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A news item involving Alexander Van der Bellen was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 23 May 2016. | ![]() |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
He is a self-confessed smoker.
Smoking is a political issue in Austria. Many Austrians smoke and the issue of being reformist and progressive or conservative and traditional is linked in minds with smoking and attitudes towards it. Just because you sca are not familiar with Austrian politics - does not mean this should be deleted. I note you did not take the same attitude to religion which also has no crime aspect linked with it.
213.162.68.69 ( talk) 20:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)Mpetz 213.162.68.69 ( talk)
The president-elect's mother Alma (née Siebold, born 1907) was, at least for all bureaucratic purposes, an ethnic Estonian. How she may have understood or identified herself in terms of "ethnicity" at various stages of her life, ultimately one can only guess, but it appears from the family-tree data compiled from Estonian archives [ https://www.facebook.com/551068118254360/photos/pb.551068118254360.-2207520000.1464022815./1459283364099493/?type=3&theater ] that all of Alma's 8 greatgrandparents were born in Estonia, were typical ethnic Estonians, and most, if not all, farmers in terms of family profession. On the other side, Alexander Van der Bellen's paternal grandmother, Adele Emilie (née Reymann, born 1867), with her somewhat more "geographically and socially mixed" ancestry, would indeed have appeared to fit the contemporary lay definition of a "Baltic German". Cheers, 217.71.46.189 ( talk) 08:31, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
The source, an interview with Van der Bellen in Die Zeit [1], specifically says that his parents' first language was Russian
I'm admittedly no expert on Estonia, but it seems plausible to me that a citizen of Imperial Russia, a multi-lingual and multi-ethnic state, could speak Russian as her first language even if her ancestry seemed to be mostly Estonian, and even if most ethnic Estonians spoke Estonian as their first language. Also, the source does not say that his parents spoke Russian with each other when he grew up, but rather that they avoided teaching their son Russian, apparently keen to assimilate into the German language culture where they lived in Austria. So it seems likely that they mainly spoke German with each other when he grew up. -- Tataral ( talk) 11:37, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
There have been conflicting edits on whether Van der Bellen is an atheist or a Deist.
In his quote, he says he does not believe in God. That makes him an atheist. Even if he bases his morals on Jesus as he says, he is still an atheist. There are atheists who culturally follow the traditions of religions, and there are certainly atheists who admire Jesus ( Mikhail Gorbachev called him the first socialist, and being the leader of the Soviets he obviously meant that as a compliment).
Deists believe in God but consider him incomprehensible to man, and something which takes no business in daily affairs in the mortal world. Examples of this include Napoleon, who was a cultural Catholic. Napoleon believed in God but not in the shape that the Catholic establishment set out; Van der Bellen publicly said he does not believe in God.
Please discuss before changing him to being a "Deist" again. '''tAD''' ( talk) 15:32, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
While he himself today in a modern context is usually referred to as Van der Bellen, it is perfectly acceptable from a linguistic/cultural point of view, and indeed quite normal (depending on context), to refer to someone whose name is van/von/de/di X as simply X without the particle (which may or may not be an indication of nobility). This has nothing to do with whether the name is "Germanic" at all, but is a common feature for European names with such particles. The name proper is really only the X part, and the particle can be omitted in some contexts. From a purist perspective, many would argue that referring to someone as van/von/de/di X (without the given name) is wrong, and that it must either be the full name, (given name) van/von/de/di X or only X (in the same way we wouldn't call Prince Harry simply "of Wales", as in "of Wales opened a new supermarket"). -- Tataral ( talk) 13:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the article it says: On 4 December 2016 Van der Bellen defeated Hofer in the re-run of the election with around 53.3% of the votes
But actually it were 53,8% ! 185.29.188.129 ( talk) 22:16, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Alexander Van der Bellen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:23, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
In 1944 (the year he was born) Vienna was part of Nazi Germany, so I made the change to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pc Retro ( talk • contribs) 20:12, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
Why are we not numbering this president, when all his predecessors are numbered? GoodDay ( talk) 18:16, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
How could Van del Bellen be an Estonian citizen in 1958 if at that time Estonia did not exist as a State? Was he stateless? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.47.167.132 ( talk) 15:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello @ RAMSES$44932: Please note this discussion thread. Many countries, most notably the United States, did not recognise the Soviet annexation and treated Estonia as formally still existent under international law, see State continuity of the Baltic states. There was an Estonian government-in-exile which issued its own passports that were recognised by some countries. There is no evidence that "Estonian citizenship" in Van der Bellen's case indeed refers to the citizenship of the Estonian Socialist Soviet Republic rather than the Republic of Estonia represented by the government-in-exile. -- RJFF ( talk) 21:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Alexander Van der Bellen article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A news item involving Alexander Van der Bellen was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 23 May 2016. | ![]() |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
He is a self-confessed smoker.
Smoking is a political issue in Austria. Many Austrians smoke and the issue of being reformist and progressive or conservative and traditional is linked in minds with smoking and attitudes towards it. Just because you sca are not familiar with Austrian politics - does not mean this should be deleted. I note you did not take the same attitude to religion which also has no crime aspect linked with it.
213.162.68.69 ( talk) 20:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)Mpetz 213.162.68.69 ( talk)
The president-elect's mother Alma (née Siebold, born 1907) was, at least for all bureaucratic purposes, an ethnic Estonian. How she may have understood or identified herself in terms of "ethnicity" at various stages of her life, ultimately one can only guess, but it appears from the family-tree data compiled from Estonian archives [ https://www.facebook.com/551068118254360/photos/pb.551068118254360.-2207520000.1464022815./1459283364099493/?type=3&theater ] that all of Alma's 8 greatgrandparents were born in Estonia, were typical ethnic Estonians, and most, if not all, farmers in terms of family profession. On the other side, Alexander Van der Bellen's paternal grandmother, Adele Emilie (née Reymann, born 1867), with her somewhat more "geographically and socially mixed" ancestry, would indeed have appeared to fit the contemporary lay definition of a "Baltic German". Cheers, 217.71.46.189 ( talk) 08:31, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
The source, an interview with Van der Bellen in Die Zeit [1], specifically says that his parents' first language was Russian
I'm admittedly no expert on Estonia, but it seems plausible to me that a citizen of Imperial Russia, a multi-lingual and multi-ethnic state, could speak Russian as her first language even if her ancestry seemed to be mostly Estonian, and even if most ethnic Estonians spoke Estonian as their first language. Also, the source does not say that his parents spoke Russian with each other when he grew up, but rather that they avoided teaching their son Russian, apparently keen to assimilate into the German language culture where they lived in Austria. So it seems likely that they mainly spoke German with each other when he grew up. -- Tataral ( talk) 11:37, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
There have been conflicting edits on whether Van der Bellen is an atheist or a Deist.
In his quote, he says he does not believe in God. That makes him an atheist. Even if he bases his morals on Jesus as he says, he is still an atheist. There are atheists who culturally follow the traditions of religions, and there are certainly atheists who admire Jesus ( Mikhail Gorbachev called him the first socialist, and being the leader of the Soviets he obviously meant that as a compliment).
Deists believe in God but consider him incomprehensible to man, and something which takes no business in daily affairs in the mortal world. Examples of this include Napoleon, who was a cultural Catholic. Napoleon believed in God but not in the shape that the Catholic establishment set out; Van der Bellen publicly said he does not believe in God.
Please discuss before changing him to being a "Deist" again. '''tAD''' ( talk) 15:32, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
While he himself today in a modern context is usually referred to as Van der Bellen, it is perfectly acceptable from a linguistic/cultural point of view, and indeed quite normal (depending on context), to refer to someone whose name is van/von/de/di X as simply X without the particle (which may or may not be an indication of nobility). This has nothing to do with whether the name is "Germanic" at all, but is a common feature for European names with such particles. The name proper is really only the X part, and the particle can be omitted in some contexts. From a purist perspective, many would argue that referring to someone as van/von/de/di X (without the given name) is wrong, and that it must either be the full name, (given name) van/von/de/di X or only X (in the same way we wouldn't call Prince Harry simply "of Wales", as in "of Wales opened a new supermarket"). -- Tataral ( talk) 13:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the article it says: On 4 December 2016 Van der Bellen defeated Hofer in the re-run of the election with around 53.3% of the votes
But actually it were 53,8% ! 185.29.188.129 ( talk) 22:16, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Alexander Van der Bellen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:23, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
In 1944 (the year he was born) Vienna was part of Nazi Germany, so I made the change to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pc Retro ( talk • contribs) 20:12, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
Why are we not numbering this president, when all his predecessors are numbered? GoodDay ( talk) 18:16, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
How could Van del Bellen be an Estonian citizen in 1958 if at that time Estonia did not exist as a State? Was he stateless? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.47.167.132 ( talk) 15:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello @ RAMSES$44932: Please note this discussion thread. Many countries, most notably the United States, did not recognise the Soviet annexation and treated Estonia as formally still existent under international law, see State continuity of the Baltic states. There was an Estonian government-in-exile which issued its own passports that were recognised by some countries. There is no evidence that "Estonian citizenship" in Van der Bellen's case indeed refers to the citizenship of the Estonian Socialist Soviet Republic rather than the Republic of Estonia represented by the government-in-exile. -- RJFF ( talk) 21:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)