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Just to let everyone know I am related to one of the two founding members of alesana. They came up with the term sweetcore to describe their music. In fact when they released their first album on tragic hero records they had a few hundred alesana shirts made with xoxo sweetcore on the front and a heart with our area code 919 [1] on the back. They also have described themselves as screamo emo and post hardcore as well especially since myspace doesn't allow you to type in SweetCore. ~meckface
I believe in AMP magazine quite a few months ago they called themselves "sweetcore" and does it really matter if they are emo or not?
can some one plz post a pic w/ a left to right heading w/ thier names i cant figur out whos who —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
166.82.57.145 (
talk) 01:30, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
They are emo.In their myspace is written that.And another thing - find place where is said they're Not emo and I won't change it again. In Allmusic.com is also stated "screamo/post-hardcore" If you don't think that way-write in this talk page and do not just edit the article without any sources! Xr 1 08:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
"Wikipedia is not a place for personal opinion"...well then write the wrong labels.I say what I think and I think in that way because I've listened to the music and know about the genre.And it's not just my personal opinion: [2], [3], [4], [5] "They should read the screamo article" an article in wikipedia cannot make them not a screamo,emo,post-hardcore group. Although I've read the article and there it's said only "Characteristic of the genre are screaming vocals, harmonized guitars, and fast-paced riffs." Well they have that! Xr 1 18:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok.I'll not write my opinion (no matter that when I think something it is checked and not invented by me) But isn't this a reliable source - [6] ? Xr 1 18:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
You have a mistake-The Majority of Alesana's music IS with screaming.There are screams in almost every song.Just listen. And I'm not gonna change the genre because Post-Hardcore is a general term which include Emo,Screamo,Metalcore etc. Xr 1 19:25, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
You've understanded me wrong.Yes-screams don't make a band screamo.I'm just saying that they scream in almost every song because you said 'as the majority of Alesana's music is not screaming' AND The list of screamo bands include many bands that are not screamo.When you click and open some of the articles you can find that genres are metalcore,emo,hardcore without screamo Xr 1 19:41, 19 May 2007 (UTC) Here are sources (which can be definite as reliable) that describe Alesana as Emo/Screamo: [7] [8] [9] Xr 1 20:35, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
And what if they don't have a wikipedia page??Wikipedia can't have pages for everything! "And once again proving that you have no clue what you are talking about, screamo is an offshoot of emo and hardcore." Yes I know that.Where I've said it's not an offshoot of emo and hardcore?? But in the page about Post-harcore is said that Emo and Screamo are its derivative forms. "Many post-hardcore and metalcore bands are mistakingly added." Oh, I'm so glad you finally agreed with me about something.I've said I wouldn't change the genre section, but Alesana is Emocore/Post-Hardcore and can be also described as being Screamo. Xr 1 21:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm saying that Post-Hardcore is rather a cross genre reference, a stage (like Post Punk) including all the genres that come from Hardcore Punk than a single genre.That's why Emo,Screamo,Math rock,Metalcore are listed as it's derivative forms in it's article.If you try to argue with me about that Post-Hardcore is a single genre I'd say the article needs a big clean up-a message is shown when you open it so you can't trust it very much. Post-Hardcore is fine for Alesana's genre but if someone include Emo/Screamo would be better.I listen to some screamo and I can tell they have screamo in their sound-but this is a personal opinion.Because of that I find sources-you can say they're not relialbe but allmusic is and there is written "Post-Hardcore, Screamo". And you're saying that if something doesn't have page in wikipedia it's stupid.Well I'm from Bulgaria-many Bulgarian musicians don't have page here-So according to you they are stupid??? Xr 1 07:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I know there are no sites that state what genre a band isn't. I meant- find me some source where is not written emo/screamo as their genre and it's just post-hardcore.And then I'll leave only post-hardcore as a genre.And some opinios of users can't make a band not screamo-as you said-they are just personal opinions.And wikipedia works with sources which state- Emocore/Screamo.Reliable or not-there are no other sources! Xr 1
Xr 1 19:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Just to let everyone know I am related to one of the two founding members of alesana. They came up with the term sweetcore to describe their music. In fact when they released their first album on tragic hero records they had a few hundred alesana shirts made with xoxo sweetcore on the front and a heart with our area code 919 on the back. They also have described themselves as screamo emo and post hardcore as well especially since myspace doesn't allow you to type in SweetCore. ~ meckface —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meckface ( talk • contribs) 19:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Alesana is a screamo band but that is not their genre. Screamo is when everthing is screaming. They have melodic singing and just normal screaming so they would just be considered hardcore. The only people that are probably saying that this is screamo music are the older people because they just mix all the music together that sounds hardcore...get your genres straight people!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albertmather ( talk • contribs) 03:29, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
LOOK AT THEIR myspace page! there stands: Screamo / Emo! so there are a emocore band! and not post-hardcore! don't think that every emo band are a posthardcore band
That doesn't make them emo. You don't know what emo is. If their myspace said they were country, would you believe that? Besides, the people that run their myspace (That means not them) and the record label prey on "emo" kids that listen to Bullet for my valentine and alesana to make money off of.
Unfortunately, previous poster, the world isn't run by your stereotypes on emos. If they say they are emo, then they ARE emo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.97.223 ( talk) 05:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Listen to orchid (band) and tell me that Alesana is the same genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkrockrunner ( talk • contribs) 00:25, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
ok i do like alesana's music and all,but just cause the band like to say they're emo,doesn't mean they are.they look like emos,but its almost like some 11 year old little girl thinks she's emo because she listens to evanescence and slits her wrists.wannabe.
or some person who dresses like an emo listening to 'emo' pop punk bands and then giving dirty looks to a normal looking kid who doesn't wear girls trousers and considers himself emo listening to sunny day real estate,the get up kids and mineral.the scene kid then calls the normall looking dude a wannabe because he doesn't look emo enough.the scene kid is a POSER.
i don't know WHAT bands influenced alesana but if it was just post hardcore stuff like underoath and the members never even heard of rites of spring,then would they be emo?NO! the members could easily be posers.
sorry
but i'm tryiing too make a point -- Nirvanarox55 ( talk) 16:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry man but emo is just a genre that uses deeply confessional/personal lyrics not wrist slitting kids decked out in black, that's just a fad. Also Alesana call themselves "sweetcore" and it seems like a combination of post-hardcore, screamo, and pop --Duh
look at thei MYSPACE PAGE!! www.myspace.com/alesana
Does Alesana have low-end production? Do they employ abrasive shouting or screaming? (I know they scream, but it is not the same sort of screaming screamo bands employ, and Alesana's screams are not abrasive or harsh) Are their songs chaotic? Not by a long shot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkrockrunner ( talk • contribs) 00:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
SAETIA,ENVY,TEXTBOOK TRAITORS LA QUIETE those are screamo bands —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.108.131.158 ( talk) 20:27, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
76.108.131.158 - Don't vandalise my userpage again. It may, most likely, result in a ban. ¤ IrønCrøw¤ ( Speak to Me) 00:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
MAN!! THIS BAND LOOKS LIKE EMOS AND THEY SOUND REALY LIKE THEM!! ALRIGHT WHY ARE THEY NOT SCREAMO/EMO AND WHY ARE THEY POST-HARDCORE? GIVE ME SOME REASONS!! PLEASE
i think they sounds more like Screamo and on their myspace page is written Screamo / Emo
Once again most MySpaces are not run by the bands themselves and therefore are not reliable sources. If it's on the bands official website (not official myspace), fine. Angel Of Sadness T/ C 12:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
"::Alesana are not hardcore punk. ~ Ambrosia- talk 01:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC) " Emocore evoluted from hardcore.So emocore is not hardcore.But as I can see some people don't understand it... Emocore is part of the post-hardcore scene.So keep this. Today there are maybe no bands that make music that is classified as emo by the old fans...and they call them post-hardcore. As avout the mainstream 'emo' bands - they are alternative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.87.6.72 ( talk) 18:46, August 30, 2007 (UTC)
Ambrosia- For those who keep adding screamo to genre, please read the
screamo page.
189.173.57.53 00:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)can you add the new cover art and the new track listing On Frail Wings of Vanity and Wax?
Ambrosia- 00:36, 26 January 2007 (EST) Done.
Seriously WHAT IN MAN'S SAKE IS UP WITH "YES WIKI" THINKS POST-HARDCORE. ENOUGH! First of all I don't give a care if you name: My Chem, Fall Out Boy or The CUre but how is Post-hardcore considered credible on techni all it fits in cause of less riff or maybe downer sound! Alesana have on there website SCREAMO so THEY ARE SCREAMO cause they say they are SCREAMO yet you argue against the band and yet you guys can't give a single example on Screamo. Kindly I ask what is a screamo band ( you guys must know at least one being so sure)? Alesana wear make up like I dunno other punk bands but maybe thats a emo thing not so called non-conforming. --
ForsakenPoppet (
talk) 03:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Screamo is described as "sonic thrash". Does Alesana sound like sonic thrash? Not to me it doesn't. All Music isn't even a decent source. -- FatalError ( t| c) 03:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Not every band sounds the same, Alesana can be described as several different genres, stop arguing about it, if you suddenly don't like the music just because it's labeled as emo than you just like music because of what's "in" which is pathetic. (90%awesome)
The album reviews I have cited are independent, third-party publications by reasonably well-known online webzines. They are media sources of which the band is the primary subject and serve to substantiate the claim to notability per WP:MUSIC bullet 1. I believe that the user is deleting them because the sources do not have their own Wikipedia article; however, if anything, a review site like The Trades is more professional than a review site like punknews.org. These publications are vetted review sites, and I am willing to look at them on a case-by-case basis if there is a serious claim that they are not. Please do so. Chubbles ( talk) 16:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't matter, what they or they myspace says. To be in genre, you must sound like that genre. They don't have emo nor screamo influences in their music, so they're not emo. Just posers, who don't know what they're talking about. Compare it to Saetia(real screamo) and Torui Okada(real emo) - not very smiliar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.35.181.172 ( talk) 11:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
It only matters what a source says. Not ones own opinion. 13Tawaazun14 ( talk) 06:00, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
How about screamo? See [
[16]].
72.81.227.98 (
talk) 19:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
That's not really a good source to cite for Alesana's genre. Screamo is such a small and obscure movement that most mainstream sites and magazines don't really have credibility talking about it. Allmusic even says that Senses Fail is screamo! Even more, they don't list screamo as one of Pg. 99's genres. A credible authority who is recognized to be knowledgeable in the field would be someone like fourfa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkrockrunner ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC) Alesana Rocks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.152.139.183 ( talk) 00:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
i honestly think that almost everyone 0n wikipedias life seems to revolve around sources.if some site said sir walter raleigh liked looking at gay porn and was the first man on the moon,would you believe that and then say its a 'reliable source',therefore put it on the page. ???? -- Nirvanarox55 ( talk) 16:46, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Here is something I have realized. Many people that like alesana, but also have a bias against emos will fight to the death to call Alesana "not emo", even though the music of Alesana is obviously, EMOtional hardcore. It displays ALL characteristics of EMOtional hardcore, does it not?
Just because you hate emos, but you like Alesana does not mean that they are NOT emo. Same goes vice versa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.97.223 ( talk) 05:23, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Alesana is Emo and Screamo. For one, many sources, including their own myspace page state that they are emo. Not only that, but the songs by Alesana:
-Display way too much emo themes to not be called "Emo", lyric wise and sound-wise -Their songs are technically "Emotional hardcore" -Their songs contain the eerie elements of Screamo, (such as "The Last Three Letters, and in other songs where it is quite obvious that they scream like in the song Pathetic, Ordinary)
Just because you have a bias against the emo or screamo genre does NOT mean that the bands you like are NOT emo, or screamo.
If you are going to remove the genres, please put in a valid point for doing so here, or just don't do it at all. Thegoldbar ( talk) 04:32, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
They're emo!! Look at their Fucking emotional lyrics and the fact that they play hardcore music! From "The Last Three Letters": "I never knew silence could cut so deep,or could twist the blade"..This sentence is pretty Emo!!
just because a band sings 'deeply' about a blade,it does not make them emo.HIM sing along the lines of that-they are not emo(despite what other labellers and stereotypers think). the lyrics of real emo bands( Mineral would be a good example),are NOT about razorblades and shit.-- Nirvanarox55 ( talk) 14:21, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Saying that you are emo on myspace doesn't mean anything. My bands profile says Bluegrass and Electro-acoustic, we're a post-hardcore band.Emo is the farthest thing from "Hardcore". Emo doesn't sing completely of pain and heartbreak and loss of a lover. Look at Cap'n Jazz (a true emo band) lyrics and tell me those are the same. Emo is often clean guitars, cleans vocals, and I don't think I've ever heard double bass, gutter vocals or anything along those lines in an emotional-hardcore song. Alesana isn't screamo either. A band that uses death chords, fries, and gutter vocals, isn't neccasarily screamo. In fact, the only screams I ever hear in screamo bands are fry screams (where you can hear their voice still). Circle Takes the Square, that's a screamo band. Cap'n Jazz, Frodus, High and Driving, and Sunny Day Real Estate (argueably) are all emo bands. Please understand this, I'm sick of hearing people say "Alesana is sooooooo emo"-Me
Besides, Shawn Milke says himself on an interview by Shout! that, "[Laughs] I don’t get it when kids call us screamo, or emo or anything else. It’s just to pigeonhole bands and we don’t like it when they do it to us."-Me
p.s. thank you for hearing me out and keeping the genre as is —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.143.99 ( talk) 05:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
I read in a blog today that Huck (Adam) left the band today, Shane is back and the touring guy is playing rythm guitar in Hucks place so I just added that on... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.136.205 ( talk) 00:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC) They're eMo!!!whether you like it or not!!-Rott3nEmoFreak —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.8.209 ( talk) 16:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
no, but it seems you rrrrrreeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllyyyyyyyyyy want them to be, "Rott3nEmoFreak" XD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.143.99 ( talk) 05:19, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
They are not emo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are just to heavy. I mean I understand Screamo but emo..........COME ON!!!!! I also want to know what sweetcore is. Also they are not pop-punk, thats just stupid, they don't sound like it Jakeellsonator ( talk) 01:52, 20 December 2008 (UTC) sweetcore is just a name they gave themselves as a joke. Like saosin called themselves saocore.
And I don't understand any of that pop punk stuff,
I think they're turning metalcore now. or trying —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.234.25 ( talk) 19:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I just want to knw why one of the members think they are pop-punk. They are post-hardcore and screamo but they aren't emo. People say they're lyrics ar emotional, but how are they wen their about greek mythology most of the time. But i know people think they're just cause they look like it. Real emo bands are like Aiden, My Chemical Romance,Alkaline Trio, an Matchbook Romance. Does Alesana sond like any of those bands
98.226.79.244 (
talk) 21:04, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
alright a short lesson in musical education since most of you people seem to have very little idea what you are talking about.
From punk rock in the mid-late 70s, emerged hardcore punk in the 80's. These 2nd generation bands listened to the first generation of punk bands, and stripped that down to the bare essence of punk rock (for lack of a better way to word that.) Generally 3 chords, and very fast, with shouted vocals. As this genre evolved and matured, it branched out into several genres, including post-hardcore and emotional hardcore.
Post-hardcore emphasised the raw, aggressive feeling of hardcore punk, and added more intensity and raw emotion, therefore consistently fast-paced drum beats, more distortion on the guitars, and the occasional breakdown. With almost entirely screamed vocals.
Emotional hardcore brought out the more melodic side out of hardcore punk, focusing more on musicianship, but especially on raw emotion. [And just to clear up any confusion, emocore is not a valid descriptive term, because that would be emotional hardcore punk with hardcore punk attributes (as anything with -core on the end derives strongly from hardCORE punk. hardcore, -CORE, got it?). Emo is just a quick way of saying Emotional Hardcore (Punk). none of the above are seperate terms.] As a result, emotional hardcore had sortof a softer, warmer, and often a sadder feel to it, as opposed to post-hardcore: not soft at all. Featuring vocals almost always sang, with occasional screaming as the genre matured.
(now just so you can make a quick comparison between the 2, ill give you the names of one of the most well known bands from these genres. Alkaline Trio representing Emotional Hardcore. Note the very punk sound to it. Blindside representing Post-hardcore. Note the very HARDCORE punk feel to it. Also note that Alesana does not resemble either of these 2 bands very closely, nor does it match the descriptions of any of the above genres as i summarized them (or as described on their respective wikipedia pages, or as known as common knowledge among members of the punk/hardcore community!))
Hardcore Punk and Post-Hardcore have continued on, and out of them and due to fusions including them, many new genres have sprung up, most prominently anything with -core on the end.
Emotional Hardcore itself continued to mature, and out of it, several distinct musical genres have emerged (go figure). Including such styles as Emotronic (Emo fused with electronica), and Screamo.
Screamo brought Emotional hardcore back to its more hardcore feel. With prominent screaming, fast, aggresive drum beats, and the like. But it also kept the emotional feel of emotional hardcore. So soft, yet aggresive at the same tiem. therefore its sortof as if hardcore punk and emotional hardcore sortof just wrapped in on itself. with screaming. This is sortof how you describe Alesana. AKStraightedge ( talk) 08:13, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
"AKStraightedge", you fucked up your history right when you started describing post hardcore and emotive hardcore. Post-hardcore is an umbrealla term, much like post-punk is. Post-hardcore can describe emo, powerviolence, noise rock, ect. Emo can refer to hardcore punk that has a few experimental qualities, or it can be a form of indie rock that draws influence from the emotive hardcore subgenre. Screamo, was an offshoot that took influence from crust punk and grindcore, bands like the Locust, In/Humanity, Orchid, and Circle Takes the Square are considered screamo bands. Alesana has no similarities to any of those. Alesana has more of a resemblance to melodic metalcore than any other genre.
I strongly believe that Alesana, especially in the new album is metalcore, or one of those genres based off it like mathcore (I do not get all of my information from wikipedia).
Melodic Metalcore and Alesana -Cleans vocals: Shawn and Huck sing in every single song, Dennis speaks, Kit Walters and Melissa Milke offer guest vocals on CDs. -Break downs (Ambrosia, Pathetic Ordinary, Alchemy Sounded Good at the Time, Tilting the Hour Glass, Obsession is Such an Ugly Word, etc., etc.) -Dual guitars (pretty much everything on Where Myth Fades to Legend) -Double bass -screams from Shawn, Dennis, Shane, and Huck
what do you think?
I agree. Alesana is definitely not screamo. Unfortunately, AllMusic, which is useful for some things, but often an abortion when it comes to many genre classifications, claims that they're screamo. The only way to explain this claim is that the media thinks anything with screaming is now screamo.It irks me. Also, sign your comments, please. ( Albert Mond ( talk) 01:36, 5 April 2009 (UTC))
What came into your minds to label alesana as Metalcore?
Those breakdowns you say in songs like Ambrosia ain't Metalcore breakdowns,.
Heavy guitar riffs aint found in alesana dudes. keep that in mind.
alesana's absolutely not METALCORE nor METAL —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
112.206.159.237 (
talk) 14:23, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
I know there is a lot of controversy about this band being screamo or post hardcore or whatever, but I can assure you all 1 very clear thing, this band is not metalcore or deathcore or another genre of metal, and if you dont want to believe me, hear some real metalcore bands, even the same wikipedia can help you, they are nothing like this, and the one who edited the page putting as reference this http://www.a-pathetic.net/zine/archives/550 to say its metalcore, i just want to say something, i read the whole article and it doesnt say a single thing about it, so please, fight all you want about if it is post hardcore or screamo, but never say this is metal please, and to cut all the trouble you should just put the genre that the band itself say they are and period, but well that's just an advice... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.208.60.26 ( talk) 02:51, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Metalcore is later hardcore punk mixed introduced to heavier metal, and "melodic metalcore" is a later version of THAT.
and that reference was to show that even Shawn Milke agrees that emo and screamo are terms too much early and do not describe Alesana
Its obviosly some hardcore stuff, and yeah, on that article may say they dont describe themeselves as scremo or emo, but that doesnt mean they are melodic metalcore, to be melodic metalcore they should have some metal part, and they doesnt have that...
how is there no metal in alesana??? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.222.159.236 (
talk) 22:42, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Obviosly you need to get to know more metal/metalcore bands to know the difference, again, the same wikipedia could help you...
Here's what 'the same wikipedia' has to say about metalcore:
"In the late 1990s, a third wave of metalcore groups appeared, who placed significantly greater emphasis on melody. Such bands as Bullet For My Valentine, As I Lay Dying, Avenged Sevenfold,Still Remains, Eighteen Visions, Killswitch Engage, All That Remains, Darkest Hour, Poison the Well, Trivium, Underoath[33] and Atreyu[34] are the most commercially successful practitioners of metalcore.[35] These groups took major influence, cues, and writing styles from melodic death metal bands, particularly In Flames and At the Gates.[33][34] Melodic metalcore frequently makes use of clean vocals,[36][37][38] and is significantly less dissonant than other metalcore."
Can you honestly say Alesana doesn't fit in with those bands?
and also... "Charectaristics Instrumentation: Metalcore bands generally feature two electric guitarists who often play fast riffs with dual leads. Bassists usually follow the rhythm guitar.[citation needed] The drummer usually performs using double-kick or double-bass drums."
The entire Where Myth Fades to Legend album is practically filled with dual guitars, from the first 5 seconds, the third guitar and bass are constantly in synch with power chords and notes on the bass, Jeremy uses a double kick pedal frequently
"Vocals Vocals in metalcore are often screamed or shouted. Growling vocals became common among many 1990s metalcore groups.[citation needed] Melodic metalcore groups combine these with clean vocals." Okay, screams, mostly death and false chords are contributed from Dennis, Shawn, Adam, Shane, Patrick, and Jeremy. Shawn sings in every single song, with Adam harmonizing. In some songs Dennis talks, or uses "clean vocals". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.159.236 ( talk) 21:38, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
So, you're saying that just because it haves clean voices and dual guitars is metalcore? dont be stupid please...
Really?
You're going to call me stupid because you think I don't know anything about the genre metalcore?
Grow up,
and listen to some bands similar to Alesana, they're all melodic metalcore too. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.222.159.236 (
talk) 00:26, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I dunno what are you saying when you say bands like alesana, because it could be more hardcore stuff, so im just gonna compare them to a band I know its melodic metalcore, bullet for my valentine is a good metalcore band and its nothing like alesana, the growls/screams are nothing like the type alesana uses, and the instrumental sound too you know? and im tired that since metalcore existed its an excuse for bands like alesana to say they're metal when they are not, and I just put for example bullet for saying one band, if you compare alesana to other metalcore bands like haste the day, trivium, sonic syndicate, etc you can see they are also nothing like alesana (sorry if my english isnt perfect)
You have a point, and i've heard more metalcore music lately and realized my claim could be pretty ridiculous, I won't change it back. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.222.237.56 (
talk) 19:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion Alesana's definitely far from Metalcore. No metal stuff at all. I know it's hard to distinguish metal from other rock but try to listen more carefully, metal's dizzing to the ear. And I hear no breakdowns.
To whoever said this, "Later in February Shawn Milke says Alesana is starting to write a new material for their upcoming album. During their tour, Alesana stated they will be recording their next album over several weeks in Portland, Oregon."...
Source??!?
You have no reason to add "emo" and "screamo" to this list. If you go read wikipedia's own definitions of the terms and listen to notable emo and screamo artists, you would understand why those genres keep getting removed. 1. Lyrical content does not define a genre. 2. Alesana do not "scream" in the same way that gave original screamo bands their title. Alesana use several types of vocalizations including fry screams, false chords, and death chords. 3. The bands myspace page doesn't count as a notable source, they could say that they are Hawaiian Pop and NOT be Hawaiian Pop. 4. Both of those genres are subgenres of HARDCORE PUNK. Alesana is not, and lacks the elements of hardcore punk.
Notable (Real) Emo Bands:
Cap'n Jazz
Rites of Spring
Mineral
Heroine
Notable (Real) Screamo Bands: Sleepytime Trio City of Caterpillar Circle Takes the Square Pg. 99
Why is this even here if Alesana formed in 2004, it's unsourced and doesn't make any sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.130.20 ( talk) 00:06, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
The band formed before moving here. There is actually quite a bit more to the full story. And the recordings from Baltimore are around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meckface ( talk • contribs) 19:53, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Even if it shows Shawn telling the audience when the album will be released? I've been removing those additions, but I don't know if I need to. 30daysinAK ( talk) 20:41, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
reliable sources have not been cited verifying alesana as post-hardcore or screamo. so until more reliable sources can be found, such as sites that dont just lump slightly similar bands all into the same genre, stop changing the genre description
it seems to me that people in general discuss alesana as being screamo.
and music critics throw it under "alternative" and occasionally post hardcore
compare alesana to bands such as blindside. an indisputably post-hardcore band. and note the differences.
music critics tend to be relatively uninformed about the music theyre critiquing.
due to the constant bickering on this bands page, and music pages in general. wikipedia itself is an unreliable source. so dont bring other wiki pages into this discussion.
alesanas music has clear roots in emotional hardcore. not so much in the more hardcore/metallic sound of typical post hardcore. that said, they started out as a thrash metal band, and changed their sound to get signed.
due to my musical expertise. i classify alesana as screamo. discuss. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.228.65 ( talk) 22:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
(and if you want to compare bands, [which is based on opinion and won't help anyone here], listen to City of Caterpillar, a screamo band, or Rites of Spring, an emo band.) 30daysinAK ( talk) 01:28, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Given that 80% of the drivel on this talk page is anonymous editors shrieking about genres, I guess I could write this anywhere...but consider this notice on the talk page. Screamo is back, with damned good sources. Sorry, purists. Chubbles ( talk) 04:17, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
alesana was thrash metal before they were signed, according to a former band member. so no. no joke. unless you have extensive experience with pre-signed alesana, dont refer to other users comments as a "joke" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.237.139 ( talk) 11:50, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Albert Mond, if you can find a reliable source that calls them metalcore, put it up, but screamo is staying. And to whoever asserts that Alesana is "thrash metal" 1. Who is this former member? and why should anyone believe that he has actually told you that the band was once thrash metal? 2. Do they have any recorded music that could be classified as "thrash metal"? 3. Do you have a source that says Alesana was once thrash metal? -- 30daysinAK ( talk) 22:45, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
1. When you think about, this whole scene has a lot of traits that could make it "post-screamo", and 2. There are wayy to many sites calling Alesana screamo. I put up metalcore a few months ago, and it got challenged alot. good luck though, haha -- 30daysinAK ( talk) 00:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Since the last is getting rather unwieldy...Since all of the style designations are contentious, all need to be sourced. I don't think there is an issue with the reliability of Allmusic, but since two editors have contested it I haven't restored it. However, that leaves us with the post-hardcore designation unsourced. It must be before it is restored. Chubbles ( talk) 20:49, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
-- 30daysinAK ( talk) 00:47, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Okay, so why are we treating Punknews.org as a more reliable source than Allmusic? That makes no sense to me. Chubbles ( talk) 21:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
There's a whole lot of it on this page lately. Semi-protect time? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 30daysinAK ( talk • contribs) 22:46, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Alesana are not emo, screamo or metalcore, or anything else. They are just post-hardcore, but with many screams and emotional. They might have influences but that doesn't make them an another genre. Look at the albums' genres, if you can't estimate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.61.216 ( talk) 14:03, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
Secondly, it's not for us mere mortals to decide what Wikipedia classifies as. Only a Reliable Source can decide that. 30daysinAKK ( talk) 17:47, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Those sites for post-hardcore aren't all that reliable either: the punknews review was written by someone who just created a profile on the website, and freebase copies the Wiki article.
Shawn's also said in interviews that post-hardcore is too old to describe Alesana, but i'm pretty sure it really doesn't matter what the band thinks they are. 65daysofstatic is called post-rock all the time, but they absolutely hate that title. -- 30daysinAKK ( talk) 20:38, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
People, all I can say is Alesana is absolutely not metalcore. Yeah, alesana has plenty of screams and growls at times but the instrumental plays more like punk. And metal breakdowns? they don't have these. Or to simply define it, Metalcore is heavy and Alesana isn't.-- Darksluke23 ( talk) 11:15, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
I have to say that Alesana has a pretty unique sound and seems to have influences of several influences and if you go to 3:15 and listen to it for a minute it shows you just how much variation they have, also emo has personal and confessional lyrics while the majority of Alesana's songs are allusitory (I don't think that's a word) in nature. (owndizzler)
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Just to let everyone know I am related to one of the two founding members of alesana. They came up with the term sweetcore to describe their music. In fact when they released their first album on tragic hero records they had a few hundred alesana shirts made with xoxo sweetcore on the front and a heart with our area code 919 [1] on the back. They also have described themselves as screamo emo and post hardcore as well especially since myspace doesn't allow you to type in SweetCore. ~meckface
I believe in AMP magazine quite a few months ago they called themselves "sweetcore" and does it really matter if they are emo or not?
can some one plz post a pic w/ a left to right heading w/ thier names i cant figur out whos who —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
166.82.57.145 (
talk) 01:30, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
They are emo.In their myspace is written that.And another thing - find place where is said they're Not emo and I won't change it again. In Allmusic.com is also stated "screamo/post-hardcore" If you don't think that way-write in this talk page and do not just edit the article without any sources! Xr 1 08:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
"Wikipedia is not a place for personal opinion"...well then write the wrong labels.I say what I think and I think in that way because I've listened to the music and know about the genre.And it's not just my personal opinion: [2], [3], [4], [5] "They should read the screamo article" an article in wikipedia cannot make them not a screamo,emo,post-hardcore group. Although I've read the article and there it's said only "Characteristic of the genre are screaming vocals, harmonized guitars, and fast-paced riffs." Well they have that! Xr 1 18:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok.I'll not write my opinion (no matter that when I think something it is checked and not invented by me) But isn't this a reliable source - [6] ? Xr 1 18:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
You have a mistake-The Majority of Alesana's music IS with screaming.There are screams in almost every song.Just listen. And I'm not gonna change the genre because Post-Hardcore is a general term which include Emo,Screamo,Metalcore etc. Xr 1 19:25, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
You've understanded me wrong.Yes-screams don't make a band screamo.I'm just saying that they scream in almost every song because you said 'as the majority of Alesana's music is not screaming' AND The list of screamo bands include many bands that are not screamo.When you click and open some of the articles you can find that genres are metalcore,emo,hardcore without screamo Xr 1 19:41, 19 May 2007 (UTC) Here are sources (which can be definite as reliable) that describe Alesana as Emo/Screamo: [7] [8] [9] Xr 1 20:35, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
And what if they don't have a wikipedia page??Wikipedia can't have pages for everything! "And once again proving that you have no clue what you are talking about, screamo is an offshoot of emo and hardcore." Yes I know that.Where I've said it's not an offshoot of emo and hardcore?? But in the page about Post-harcore is said that Emo and Screamo are its derivative forms. "Many post-hardcore and metalcore bands are mistakingly added." Oh, I'm so glad you finally agreed with me about something.I've said I wouldn't change the genre section, but Alesana is Emocore/Post-Hardcore and can be also described as being Screamo. Xr 1 21:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm saying that Post-Hardcore is rather a cross genre reference, a stage (like Post Punk) including all the genres that come from Hardcore Punk than a single genre.That's why Emo,Screamo,Math rock,Metalcore are listed as it's derivative forms in it's article.If you try to argue with me about that Post-Hardcore is a single genre I'd say the article needs a big clean up-a message is shown when you open it so you can't trust it very much. Post-Hardcore is fine for Alesana's genre but if someone include Emo/Screamo would be better.I listen to some screamo and I can tell they have screamo in their sound-but this is a personal opinion.Because of that I find sources-you can say they're not relialbe but allmusic is and there is written "Post-Hardcore, Screamo". And you're saying that if something doesn't have page in wikipedia it's stupid.Well I'm from Bulgaria-many Bulgarian musicians don't have page here-So according to you they are stupid??? Xr 1 07:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I know there are no sites that state what genre a band isn't. I meant- find me some source where is not written emo/screamo as their genre and it's just post-hardcore.And then I'll leave only post-hardcore as a genre.And some opinios of users can't make a band not screamo-as you said-they are just personal opinions.And wikipedia works with sources which state- Emocore/Screamo.Reliable or not-there are no other sources! Xr 1
Xr 1 19:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Just to let everyone know I am related to one of the two founding members of alesana. They came up with the term sweetcore to describe their music. In fact when they released their first album on tragic hero records they had a few hundred alesana shirts made with xoxo sweetcore on the front and a heart with our area code 919 on the back. They also have described themselves as screamo emo and post hardcore as well especially since myspace doesn't allow you to type in SweetCore. ~ meckface —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meckface ( talk • contribs) 19:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Alesana is a screamo band but that is not their genre. Screamo is when everthing is screaming. They have melodic singing and just normal screaming so they would just be considered hardcore. The only people that are probably saying that this is screamo music are the older people because they just mix all the music together that sounds hardcore...get your genres straight people!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albertmather ( talk • contribs) 03:29, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
LOOK AT THEIR myspace page! there stands: Screamo / Emo! so there are a emocore band! and not post-hardcore! don't think that every emo band are a posthardcore band
That doesn't make them emo. You don't know what emo is. If their myspace said they were country, would you believe that? Besides, the people that run their myspace (That means not them) and the record label prey on "emo" kids that listen to Bullet for my valentine and alesana to make money off of.
Unfortunately, previous poster, the world isn't run by your stereotypes on emos. If they say they are emo, then they ARE emo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.97.223 ( talk) 05:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Listen to orchid (band) and tell me that Alesana is the same genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkrockrunner ( talk • contribs) 00:25, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
ok i do like alesana's music and all,but just cause the band like to say they're emo,doesn't mean they are.they look like emos,but its almost like some 11 year old little girl thinks she's emo because she listens to evanescence and slits her wrists.wannabe.
or some person who dresses like an emo listening to 'emo' pop punk bands and then giving dirty looks to a normal looking kid who doesn't wear girls trousers and considers himself emo listening to sunny day real estate,the get up kids and mineral.the scene kid then calls the normall looking dude a wannabe because he doesn't look emo enough.the scene kid is a POSER.
i don't know WHAT bands influenced alesana but if it was just post hardcore stuff like underoath and the members never even heard of rites of spring,then would they be emo?NO! the members could easily be posers.
sorry
but i'm tryiing too make a point -- Nirvanarox55 ( talk) 16:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry man but emo is just a genre that uses deeply confessional/personal lyrics not wrist slitting kids decked out in black, that's just a fad. Also Alesana call themselves "sweetcore" and it seems like a combination of post-hardcore, screamo, and pop --Duh
look at thei MYSPACE PAGE!! www.myspace.com/alesana
Does Alesana have low-end production? Do they employ abrasive shouting or screaming? (I know they scream, but it is not the same sort of screaming screamo bands employ, and Alesana's screams are not abrasive or harsh) Are their songs chaotic? Not by a long shot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkrockrunner ( talk • contribs) 00:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
SAETIA,ENVY,TEXTBOOK TRAITORS LA QUIETE those are screamo bands —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.108.131.158 ( talk) 20:27, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
76.108.131.158 - Don't vandalise my userpage again. It may, most likely, result in a ban. ¤ IrønCrøw¤ ( Speak to Me) 00:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
MAN!! THIS BAND LOOKS LIKE EMOS AND THEY SOUND REALY LIKE THEM!! ALRIGHT WHY ARE THEY NOT SCREAMO/EMO AND WHY ARE THEY POST-HARDCORE? GIVE ME SOME REASONS!! PLEASE
i think they sounds more like Screamo and on their myspace page is written Screamo / Emo
Once again most MySpaces are not run by the bands themselves and therefore are not reliable sources. If it's on the bands official website (not official myspace), fine. Angel Of Sadness T/ C 12:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
"::Alesana are not hardcore punk. ~ Ambrosia- talk 01:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC) " Emocore evoluted from hardcore.So emocore is not hardcore.But as I can see some people don't understand it... Emocore is part of the post-hardcore scene.So keep this. Today there are maybe no bands that make music that is classified as emo by the old fans...and they call them post-hardcore. As avout the mainstream 'emo' bands - they are alternative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.87.6.72 ( talk) 18:46, August 30, 2007 (UTC)
Ambrosia- For those who keep adding screamo to genre, please read the
screamo page.
189.173.57.53 00:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)can you add the new cover art and the new track listing On Frail Wings of Vanity and Wax?
Ambrosia- 00:36, 26 January 2007 (EST) Done.
Seriously WHAT IN MAN'S SAKE IS UP WITH "YES WIKI" THINKS POST-HARDCORE. ENOUGH! First of all I don't give a care if you name: My Chem, Fall Out Boy or The CUre but how is Post-hardcore considered credible on techni all it fits in cause of less riff or maybe downer sound! Alesana have on there website SCREAMO so THEY ARE SCREAMO cause they say they are SCREAMO yet you argue against the band and yet you guys can't give a single example on Screamo. Kindly I ask what is a screamo band ( you guys must know at least one being so sure)? Alesana wear make up like I dunno other punk bands but maybe thats a emo thing not so called non-conforming. --
ForsakenPoppet (
talk) 03:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Screamo is described as "sonic thrash". Does Alesana sound like sonic thrash? Not to me it doesn't. All Music isn't even a decent source. -- FatalError ( t| c) 03:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Not every band sounds the same, Alesana can be described as several different genres, stop arguing about it, if you suddenly don't like the music just because it's labeled as emo than you just like music because of what's "in" which is pathetic. (90%awesome)
The album reviews I have cited are independent, third-party publications by reasonably well-known online webzines. They are media sources of which the band is the primary subject and serve to substantiate the claim to notability per WP:MUSIC bullet 1. I believe that the user is deleting them because the sources do not have their own Wikipedia article; however, if anything, a review site like The Trades is more professional than a review site like punknews.org. These publications are vetted review sites, and I am willing to look at them on a case-by-case basis if there is a serious claim that they are not. Please do so. Chubbles ( talk) 16:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't matter, what they or they myspace says. To be in genre, you must sound like that genre. They don't have emo nor screamo influences in their music, so they're not emo. Just posers, who don't know what they're talking about. Compare it to Saetia(real screamo) and Torui Okada(real emo) - not very smiliar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.35.181.172 ( talk) 11:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
It only matters what a source says. Not ones own opinion. 13Tawaazun14 ( talk) 06:00, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
How about screamo? See [
[16]].
72.81.227.98 (
talk) 19:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
That's not really a good source to cite for Alesana's genre. Screamo is such a small and obscure movement that most mainstream sites and magazines don't really have credibility talking about it. Allmusic even says that Senses Fail is screamo! Even more, they don't list screamo as one of Pg. 99's genres. A credible authority who is recognized to be knowledgeable in the field would be someone like fourfa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkrockrunner ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC) Alesana Rocks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.152.139.183 ( talk) 00:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
i honestly think that almost everyone 0n wikipedias life seems to revolve around sources.if some site said sir walter raleigh liked looking at gay porn and was the first man on the moon,would you believe that and then say its a 'reliable source',therefore put it on the page. ???? -- Nirvanarox55 ( talk) 16:46, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Here is something I have realized. Many people that like alesana, but also have a bias against emos will fight to the death to call Alesana "not emo", even though the music of Alesana is obviously, EMOtional hardcore. It displays ALL characteristics of EMOtional hardcore, does it not?
Just because you hate emos, but you like Alesana does not mean that they are NOT emo. Same goes vice versa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.97.223 ( talk) 05:23, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Alesana is Emo and Screamo. For one, many sources, including their own myspace page state that they are emo. Not only that, but the songs by Alesana:
-Display way too much emo themes to not be called "Emo", lyric wise and sound-wise -Their songs are technically "Emotional hardcore" -Their songs contain the eerie elements of Screamo, (such as "The Last Three Letters, and in other songs where it is quite obvious that they scream like in the song Pathetic, Ordinary)
Just because you have a bias against the emo or screamo genre does NOT mean that the bands you like are NOT emo, or screamo.
If you are going to remove the genres, please put in a valid point for doing so here, or just don't do it at all. Thegoldbar ( talk) 04:32, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
They're emo!! Look at their Fucking emotional lyrics and the fact that they play hardcore music! From "The Last Three Letters": "I never knew silence could cut so deep,or could twist the blade"..This sentence is pretty Emo!!
just because a band sings 'deeply' about a blade,it does not make them emo.HIM sing along the lines of that-they are not emo(despite what other labellers and stereotypers think). the lyrics of real emo bands( Mineral would be a good example),are NOT about razorblades and shit.-- Nirvanarox55 ( talk) 14:21, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Saying that you are emo on myspace doesn't mean anything. My bands profile says Bluegrass and Electro-acoustic, we're a post-hardcore band.Emo is the farthest thing from "Hardcore". Emo doesn't sing completely of pain and heartbreak and loss of a lover. Look at Cap'n Jazz (a true emo band) lyrics and tell me those are the same. Emo is often clean guitars, cleans vocals, and I don't think I've ever heard double bass, gutter vocals or anything along those lines in an emotional-hardcore song. Alesana isn't screamo either. A band that uses death chords, fries, and gutter vocals, isn't neccasarily screamo. In fact, the only screams I ever hear in screamo bands are fry screams (where you can hear their voice still). Circle Takes the Square, that's a screamo band. Cap'n Jazz, Frodus, High and Driving, and Sunny Day Real Estate (argueably) are all emo bands. Please understand this, I'm sick of hearing people say "Alesana is sooooooo emo"-Me
Besides, Shawn Milke says himself on an interview by Shout! that, "[Laughs] I don’t get it when kids call us screamo, or emo or anything else. It’s just to pigeonhole bands and we don’t like it when they do it to us."-Me
p.s. thank you for hearing me out and keeping the genre as is —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.143.99 ( talk) 05:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
I read in a blog today that Huck (Adam) left the band today, Shane is back and the touring guy is playing rythm guitar in Hucks place so I just added that on... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.136.205 ( talk) 00:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC) They're eMo!!!whether you like it or not!!-Rott3nEmoFreak —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.8.209 ( talk) 16:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
no, but it seems you rrrrrreeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllyyyyyyyyyy want them to be, "Rott3nEmoFreak" XD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.143.99 ( talk) 05:19, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
They are not emo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are just to heavy. I mean I understand Screamo but emo..........COME ON!!!!! I also want to know what sweetcore is. Also they are not pop-punk, thats just stupid, they don't sound like it Jakeellsonator ( talk) 01:52, 20 December 2008 (UTC) sweetcore is just a name they gave themselves as a joke. Like saosin called themselves saocore.
And I don't understand any of that pop punk stuff,
I think they're turning metalcore now. or trying —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.234.25 ( talk) 19:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I just want to knw why one of the members think they are pop-punk. They are post-hardcore and screamo but they aren't emo. People say they're lyrics ar emotional, but how are they wen their about greek mythology most of the time. But i know people think they're just cause they look like it. Real emo bands are like Aiden, My Chemical Romance,Alkaline Trio, an Matchbook Romance. Does Alesana sond like any of those bands
98.226.79.244 (
talk) 21:04, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
alright a short lesson in musical education since most of you people seem to have very little idea what you are talking about.
From punk rock in the mid-late 70s, emerged hardcore punk in the 80's. These 2nd generation bands listened to the first generation of punk bands, and stripped that down to the bare essence of punk rock (for lack of a better way to word that.) Generally 3 chords, and very fast, with shouted vocals. As this genre evolved and matured, it branched out into several genres, including post-hardcore and emotional hardcore.
Post-hardcore emphasised the raw, aggressive feeling of hardcore punk, and added more intensity and raw emotion, therefore consistently fast-paced drum beats, more distortion on the guitars, and the occasional breakdown. With almost entirely screamed vocals.
Emotional hardcore brought out the more melodic side out of hardcore punk, focusing more on musicianship, but especially on raw emotion. [And just to clear up any confusion, emocore is not a valid descriptive term, because that would be emotional hardcore punk with hardcore punk attributes (as anything with -core on the end derives strongly from hardCORE punk. hardcore, -CORE, got it?). Emo is just a quick way of saying Emotional Hardcore (Punk). none of the above are seperate terms.] As a result, emotional hardcore had sortof a softer, warmer, and often a sadder feel to it, as opposed to post-hardcore: not soft at all. Featuring vocals almost always sang, with occasional screaming as the genre matured.
(now just so you can make a quick comparison between the 2, ill give you the names of one of the most well known bands from these genres. Alkaline Trio representing Emotional Hardcore. Note the very punk sound to it. Blindside representing Post-hardcore. Note the very HARDCORE punk feel to it. Also note that Alesana does not resemble either of these 2 bands very closely, nor does it match the descriptions of any of the above genres as i summarized them (or as described on their respective wikipedia pages, or as known as common knowledge among members of the punk/hardcore community!))
Hardcore Punk and Post-Hardcore have continued on, and out of them and due to fusions including them, many new genres have sprung up, most prominently anything with -core on the end.
Emotional Hardcore itself continued to mature, and out of it, several distinct musical genres have emerged (go figure). Including such styles as Emotronic (Emo fused with electronica), and Screamo.
Screamo brought Emotional hardcore back to its more hardcore feel. With prominent screaming, fast, aggresive drum beats, and the like. But it also kept the emotional feel of emotional hardcore. So soft, yet aggresive at the same tiem. therefore its sortof as if hardcore punk and emotional hardcore sortof just wrapped in on itself. with screaming. This is sortof how you describe Alesana. AKStraightedge ( talk) 08:13, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
"AKStraightedge", you fucked up your history right when you started describing post hardcore and emotive hardcore. Post-hardcore is an umbrealla term, much like post-punk is. Post-hardcore can describe emo, powerviolence, noise rock, ect. Emo can refer to hardcore punk that has a few experimental qualities, or it can be a form of indie rock that draws influence from the emotive hardcore subgenre. Screamo, was an offshoot that took influence from crust punk and grindcore, bands like the Locust, In/Humanity, Orchid, and Circle Takes the Square are considered screamo bands. Alesana has no similarities to any of those. Alesana has more of a resemblance to melodic metalcore than any other genre.
I strongly believe that Alesana, especially in the new album is metalcore, or one of those genres based off it like mathcore (I do not get all of my information from wikipedia).
Melodic Metalcore and Alesana -Cleans vocals: Shawn and Huck sing in every single song, Dennis speaks, Kit Walters and Melissa Milke offer guest vocals on CDs. -Break downs (Ambrosia, Pathetic Ordinary, Alchemy Sounded Good at the Time, Tilting the Hour Glass, Obsession is Such an Ugly Word, etc., etc.) -Dual guitars (pretty much everything on Where Myth Fades to Legend) -Double bass -screams from Shawn, Dennis, Shane, and Huck
what do you think?
I agree. Alesana is definitely not screamo. Unfortunately, AllMusic, which is useful for some things, but often an abortion when it comes to many genre classifications, claims that they're screamo. The only way to explain this claim is that the media thinks anything with screaming is now screamo.It irks me. Also, sign your comments, please. ( Albert Mond ( talk) 01:36, 5 April 2009 (UTC))
What came into your minds to label alesana as Metalcore?
Those breakdowns you say in songs like Ambrosia ain't Metalcore breakdowns,.
Heavy guitar riffs aint found in alesana dudes. keep that in mind.
alesana's absolutely not METALCORE nor METAL —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
112.206.159.237 (
talk) 14:23, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
I know there is a lot of controversy about this band being screamo or post hardcore or whatever, but I can assure you all 1 very clear thing, this band is not metalcore or deathcore or another genre of metal, and if you dont want to believe me, hear some real metalcore bands, even the same wikipedia can help you, they are nothing like this, and the one who edited the page putting as reference this http://www.a-pathetic.net/zine/archives/550 to say its metalcore, i just want to say something, i read the whole article and it doesnt say a single thing about it, so please, fight all you want about if it is post hardcore or screamo, but never say this is metal please, and to cut all the trouble you should just put the genre that the band itself say they are and period, but well that's just an advice... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.208.60.26 ( talk) 02:51, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Metalcore is later hardcore punk mixed introduced to heavier metal, and "melodic metalcore" is a later version of THAT.
and that reference was to show that even Shawn Milke agrees that emo and screamo are terms too much early and do not describe Alesana
Its obviosly some hardcore stuff, and yeah, on that article may say they dont describe themeselves as scremo or emo, but that doesnt mean they are melodic metalcore, to be melodic metalcore they should have some metal part, and they doesnt have that...
how is there no metal in alesana??? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.222.159.236 (
talk) 22:42, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Obviosly you need to get to know more metal/metalcore bands to know the difference, again, the same wikipedia could help you...
Here's what 'the same wikipedia' has to say about metalcore:
"In the late 1990s, a third wave of metalcore groups appeared, who placed significantly greater emphasis on melody. Such bands as Bullet For My Valentine, As I Lay Dying, Avenged Sevenfold,Still Remains, Eighteen Visions, Killswitch Engage, All That Remains, Darkest Hour, Poison the Well, Trivium, Underoath[33] and Atreyu[34] are the most commercially successful practitioners of metalcore.[35] These groups took major influence, cues, and writing styles from melodic death metal bands, particularly In Flames and At the Gates.[33][34] Melodic metalcore frequently makes use of clean vocals,[36][37][38] and is significantly less dissonant than other metalcore."
Can you honestly say Alesana doesn't fit in with those bands?
and also... "Charectaristics Instrumentation: Metalcore bands generally feature two electric guitarists who often play fast riffs with dual leads. Bassists usually follow the rhythm guitar.[citation needed] The drummer usually performs using double-kick or double-bass drums."
The entire Where Myth Fades to Legend album is practically filled with dual guitars, from the first 5 seconds, the third guitar and bass are constantly in synch with power chords and notes on the bass, Jeremy uses a double kick pedal frequently
"Vocals Vocals in metalcore are often screamed or shouted. Growling vocals became common among many 1990s metalcore groups.[citation needed] Melodic metalcore groups combine these with clean vocals." Okay, screams, mostly death and false chords are contributed from Dennis, Shawn, Adam, Shane, Patrick, and Jeremy. Shawn sings in every single song, with Adam harmonizing. In some songs Dennis talks, or uses "clean vocals". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.159.236 ( talk) 21:38, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
So, you're saying that just because it haves clean voices and dual guitars is metalcore? dont be stupid please...
Really?
You're going to call me stupid because you think I don't know anything about the genre metalcore?
Grow up,
and listen to some bands similar to Alesana, they're all melodic metalcore too. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.222.159.236 (
talk) 00:26, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I dunno what are you saying when you say bands like alesana, because it could be more hardcore stuff, so im just gonna compare them to a band I know its melodic metalcore, bullet for my valentine is a good metalcore band and its nothing like alesana, the growls/screams are nothing like the type alesana uses, and the instrumental sound too you know? and im tired that since metalcore existed its an excuse for bands like alesana to say they're metal when they are not, and I just put for example bullet for saying one band, if you compare alesana to other metalcore bands like haste the day, trivium, sonic syndicate, etc you can see they are also nothing like alesana (sorry if my english isnt perfect)
You have a point, and i've heard more metalcore music lately and realized my claim could be pretty ridiculous, I won't change it back. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.222.237.56 (
talk) 19:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion Alesana's definitely far from Metalcore. No metal stuff at all. I know it's hard to distinguish metal from other rock but try to listen more carefully, metal's dizzing to the ear. And I hear no breakdowns.
To whoever said this, "Later in February Shawn Milke says Alesana is starting to write a new material for their upcoming album. During their tour, Alesana stated they will be recording their next album over several weeks in Portland, Oregon."...
Source??!?
You have no reason to add "emo" and "screamo" to this list. If you go read wikipedia's own definitions of the terms and listen to notable emo and screamo artists, you would understand why those genres keep getting removed. 1. Lyrical content does not define a genre. 2. Alesana do not "scream" in the same way that gave original screamo bands their title. Alesana use several types of vocalizations including fry screams, false chords, and death chords. 3. The bands myspace page doesn't count as a notable source, they could say that they are Hawaiian Pop and NOT be Hawaiian Pop. 4. Both of those genres are subgenres of HARDCORE PUNK. Alesana is not, and lacks the elements of hardcore punk.
Notable (Real) Emo Bands:
Cap'n Jazz
Rites of Spring
Mineral
Heroine
Notable (Real) Screamo Bands: Sleepytime Trio City of Caterpillar Circle Takes the Square Pg. 99
Why is this even here if Alesana formed in 2004, it's unsourced and doesn't make any sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.130.20 ( talk) 00:06, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
The band formed before moving here. There is actually quite a bit more to the full story. And the recordings from Baltimore are around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meckface ( talk • contribs) 19:53, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Even if it shows Shawn telling the audience when the album will be released? I've been removing those additions, but I don't know if I need to. 30daysinAK ( talk) 20:41, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
reliable sources have not been cited verifying alesana as post-hardcore or screamo. so until more reliable sources can be found, such as sites that dont just lump slightly similar bands all into the same genre, stop changing the genre description
it seems to me that people in general discuss alesana as being screamo.
and music critics throw it under "alternative" and occasionally post hardcore
compare alesana to bands such as blindside. an indisputably post-hardcore band. and note the differences.
music critics tend to be relatively uninformed about the music theyre critiquing.
due to the constant bickering on this bands page, and music pages in general. wikipedia itself is an unreliable source. so dont bring other wiki pages into this discussion.
alesanas music has clear roots in emotional hardcore. not so much in the more hardcore/metallic sound of typical post hardcore. that said, they started out as a thrash metal band, and changed their sound to get signed.
due to my musical expertise. i classify alesana as screamo. discuss. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.228.65 ( talk) 22:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
(and if you want to compare bands, [which is based on opinion and won't help anyone here], listen to City of Caterpillar, a screamo band, or Rites of Spring, an emo band.) 30daysinAK ( talk) 01:28, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Given that 80% of the drivel on this talk page is anonymous editors shrieking about genres, I guess I could write this anywhere...but consider this notice on the talk page. Screamo is back, with damned good sources. Sorry, purists. Chubbles ( talk) 04:17, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
alesana was thrash metal before they were signed, according to a former band member. so no. no joke. unless you have extensive experience with pre-signed alesana, dont refer to other users comments as a "joke" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.237.139 ( talk) 11:50, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Albert Mond, if you can find a reliable source that calls them metalcore, put it up, but screamo is staying. And to whoever asserts that Alesana is "thrash metal" 1. Who is this former member? and why should anyone believe that he has actually told you that the band was once thrash metal? 2. Do they have any recorded music that could be classified as "thrash metal"? 3. Do you have a source that says Alesana was once thrash metal? -- 30daysinAK ( talk) 22:45, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
1. When you think about, this whole scene has a lot of traits that could make it "post-screamo", and 2. There are wayy to many sites calling Alesana screamo. I put up metalcore a few months ago, and it got challenged alot. good luck though, haha -- 30daysinAK ( talk) 00:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Since the last is getting rather unwieldy...Since all of the style designations are contentious, all need to be sourced. I don't think there is an issue with the reliability of Allmusic, but since two editors have contested it I haven't restored it. However, that leaves us with the post-hardcore designation unsourced. It must be before it is restored. Chubbles ( talk) 20:49, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
-- 30daysinAK ( talk) 00:47, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Okay, so why are we treating Punknews.org as a more reliable source than Allmusic? That makes no sense to me. Chubbles ( talk) 21:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
There's a whole lot of it on this page lately. Semi-protect time? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 30daysinAK ( talk • contribs) 22:46, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Alesana are not emo, screamo or metalcore, or anything else. They are just post-hardcore, but with many screams and emotional. They might have influences but that doesn't make them an another genre. Look at the albums' genres, if you can't estimate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.61.216 ( talk) 14:03, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
Secondly, it's not for us mere mortals to decide what Wikipedia classifies as. Only a Reliable Source can decide that. 30daysinAKK ( talk) 17:47, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Those sites for post-hardcore aren't all that reliable either: the punknews review was written by someone who just created a profile on the website, and freebase copies the Wiki article.
Shawn's also said in interviews that post-hardcore is too old to describe Alesana, but i'm pretty sure it really doesn't matter what the band thinks they are. 65daysofstatic is called post-rock all the time, but they absolutely hate that title. -- 30daysinAKK ( talk) 20:38, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
People, all I can say is Alesana is absolutely not metalcore. Yeah, alesana has plenty of screams and growls at times but the instrumental plays more like punk. And metal breakdowns? they don't have these. Or to simply define it, Metalcore is heavy and Alesana isn't.-- Darksluke23 ( talk) 11:15, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
I have to say that Alesana has a pretty unique sound and seems to have influences of several influences and if you go to 3:15 and listen to it for a minute it shows you just how much variation they have, also emo has personal and confessional lyrics while the majority of Alesana's songs are allusitory (I don't think that's a word) in nature. (owndizzler)