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In the Hebrew, it only says va'anachnu korim, but not umishtachhavim umodim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.229.214.147 ( talk) 03:38, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
The start of the article says, Aleinu (Hebrew: עָלֵינוּ, "ours" here to be understood as: "it is upon us" ...).
עלינו (aleinu) does not translate to "ours" at all, in modern Hebrew, liturgical nor biblical Hebrew. "Ours" in liturgical and modern Hebrew would normally be שלינו (sheleinu). על (al) means on/upon. So that, "ali" = upon me, "alik" = upon you man, "alayik" = upon you woman, "aleinu" = upon us, "alav" = upon him, "aleikem" = upon y'all men. Al also has declension as above, as in the last passage בשמים ממעל, ba-shamayim mi-ma-al. Incidentally, the Israeli airline El-Al connotes forward-upward ==> forward to the firmament above.
Hence Jewish Anderstein ( talk) 18:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The prayer was originally the introduction to the "kingships" section of the Rosh Hashana Musaf prayer. Therefore, I'm pretty sure the second paragraph was part of that.--Anon.
¶ After seeing that considerable time has passed since most of these comments, I have undertaken to amplify this article. Sussmanbern ( talk) 15:09, 14 September 2011 (UTC). Would very much appreciate feedback. Sussmanbern ( talk) 18:01, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Tom
e
r
talk
05:53, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
¶ The "whole text" presumably would include Al-Kayn and maybe Al-tiro, which are lengthy and without much historical commentary. (Al-tiro is included in the ArtScroll siddur, but not in the Hertz or many other siddurim). I have checked Hammer's words in Or Hadash (and added the page number to the footnote), he wrote Aleinu (not Aleini).
Sussmanbern (
talk)
18:16, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
The earlier form of this prayer contains an additional sentence:
(Some Sephardi and Italki communities have a slightly different form of this sentence: who carry their wooden images and pray to a God who cannot give success. )
I have removed the above sentence; it isn't a different form of the prayer. It is exactly the same sentence, obviously with a slightly different English translation. The Hebrew is the same; the translation varies a bit in every siddur. RK 01:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how common it is, but I know that my congregation bows during the line "Va'anachnu qor`im, umishtachavim umodim" and then stands up at "lif'nei". Should this be mentioned? soldierx40k 16:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia policies do not allow/encourage us to write original knowledge, research or opinions. We all know that some traditions bend knees and then bow and then rise up at a certain point, some even prostrate and many even float by the passage like nothing happens oblivious to the passage. However, we cannot write this down in Wikipedia even though it is common knowledge to us.
If inductive education on the communal behaviour and etiquette of Wikipedia has progressed properly in me, then I think one or more of us would have to proceed with creating a web page describing this custom. Then hopefully someone else reads your web page and then quote your web page to include such facts into Wikipedia. No matter how authoritative you are in a field, you are not to write your original knowledge or quote your own web site. But, I think it is alright if you are an authority and has given a lecture or sermon on a topic and the lecture is published in a well-accepted peer-reviewed publication or academic society like the IEEE, AMA or some Harvard medical review and then quote yourself. The question then rolls on towards - can someone create a web site and claim it to be a reasonably acceptable peer-reviewed academic society to quote oneself? Does Wikipedia have a committee determining what an acceptable academic society is to be sufficient for one to quote one's own publication? It is a shuddering thought that Wikipedia community might want to take on an a'la reality/talent show vote-them-out role.
This scenario keeps me occupied in traffic jams - meditating about this scenario in the face of anti-originality policy of Wikipedia. Sometimes I wonder, are there people who collaborate to create web sites and then a friend is called upon to read the web sites to insert the "facts" into Wikipedia to circumvent Wikipedia's non-originality policy. I guess this is a valid practice because it is an encouragement of the peer-review practice.
Hence Jewish Anderstein (
talk)
05:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
What about
http://www.jewfaq.org/liturgy.htm? That site has a clear reference to bowing in Aleinu.
Pedantrician (
talk)
06:14, 31 January 2010 (UTC)Pedantrician
Does any one know about this - is it - as often - an error? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/27/christians-under-pressure-bigotry-school-imprisonment-murder "the attackers painted graffiti on the wall calling for the “destruction of false idols” – part of a Jewish prayer known as the Aleinu." Best wishes ( Msrasnw ( talk) 09:23, 28 July 2015 (UTC))
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 20:20, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Is there a reason why it's OK to put copyrighted text on this page? Seems like a clear-cut issue to me but it's been there a while so maybe I'm missing something. GordonGlottal ( talk) 14:35, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
“Have no fear of sudden terror…” in Jonathan Sacks authorised daily prayer book… where does that come from? 148.252.129.218 ( talk) 09:33, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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In the Hebrew, it only says va'anachnu korim, but not umishtachhavim umodim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.229.214.147 ( talk) 03:38, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
The start of the article says, Aleinu (Hebrew: עָלֵינוּ, "ours" here to be understood as: "it is upon us" ...).
עלינו (aleinu) does not translate to "ours" at all, in modern Hebrew, liturgical nor biblical Hebrew. "Ours" in liturgical and modern Hebrew would normally be שלינו (sheleinu). על (al) means on/upon. So that, "ali" = upon me, "alik" = upon you man, "alayik" = upon you woman, "aleinu" = upon us, "alav" = upon him, "aleikem" = upon y'all men. Al also has declension as above, as in the last passage בשמים ממעל, ba-shamayim mi-ma-al. Incidentally, the Israeli airline El-Al connotes forward-upward ==> forward to the firmament above.
Hence Jewish Anderstein ( talk) 18:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The prayer was originally the introduction to the "kingships" section of the Rosh Hashana Musaf prayer. Therefore, I'm pretty sure the second paragraph was part of that.--Anon.
¶ After seeing that considerable time has passed since most of these comments, I have undertaken to amplify this article. Sussmanbern ( talk) 15:09, 14 September 2011 (UTC). Would very much appreciate feedback. Sussmanbern ( talk) 18:01, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Tom
e
r
talk
05:53, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
¶ The "whole text" presumably would include Al-Kayn and maybe Al-tiro, which are lengthy and without much historical commentary. (Al-tiro is included in the ArtScroll siddur, but not in the Hertz or many other siddurim). I have checked Hammer's words in Or Hadash (and added the page number to the footnote), he wrote Aleinu (not Aleini).
Sussmanbern (
talk)
18:16, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
The earlier form of this prayer contains an additional sentence:
(Some Sephardi and Italki communities have a slightly different form of this sentence: who carry their wooden images and pray to a God who cannot give success. )
I have removed the above sentence; it isn't a different form of the prayer. It is exactly the same sentence, obviously with a slightly different English translation. The Hebrew is the same; the translation varies a bit in every siddur. RK 01:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how common it is, but I know that my congregation bows during the line "Va'anachnu qor`im, umishtachavim umodim" and then stands up at "lif'nei". Should this be mentioned? soldierx40k 16:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia policies do not allow/encourage us to write original knowledge, research or opinions. We all know that some traditions bend knees and then bow and then rise up at a certain point, some even prostrate and many even float by the passage like nothing happens oblivious to the passage. However, we cannot write this down in Wikipedia even though it is common knowledge to us.
If inductive education on the communal behaviour and etiquette of Wikipedia has progressed properly in me, then I think one or more of us would have to proceed with creating a web page describing this custom. Then hopefully someone else reads your web page and then quote your web page to include such facts into Wikipedia. No matter how authoritative you are in a field, you are not to write your original knowledge or quote your own web site. But, I think it is alright if you are an authority and has given a lecture or sermon on a topic and the lecture is published in a well-accepted peer-reviewed publication or academic society like the IEEE, AMA or some Harvard medical review and then quote yourself. The question then rolls on towards - can someone create a web site and claim it to be a reasonably acceptable peer-reviewed academic society to quote oneself? Does Wikipedia have a committee determining what an acceptable academic society is to be sufficient for one to quote one's own publication? It is a shuddering thought that Wikipedia community might want to take on an a'la reality/talent show vote-them-out role.
This scenario keeps me occupied in traffic jams - meditating about this scenario in the face of anti-originality policy of Wikipedia. Sometimes I wonder, are there people who collaborate to create web sites and then a friend is called upon to read the web sites to insert the "facts" into Wikipedia to circumvent Wikipedia's non-originality policy. I guess this is a valid practice because it is an encouragement of the peer-review practice.
Hence Jewish Anderstein (
talk)
05:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
What about
http://www.jewfaq.org/liturgy.htm? That site has a clear reference to bowing in Aleinu.
Pedantrician (
talk)
06:14, 31 January 2010 (UTC)Pedantrician
Does any one know about this - is it - as often - an error? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/27/christians-under-pressure-bigotry-school-imprisonment-murder "the attackers painted graffiti on the wall calling for the “destruction of false idols” – part of a Jewish prayer known as the Aleinu." Best wishes ( Msrasnw ( talk) 09:23, 28 July 2015 (UTC))
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Aleinu. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has determined that the edit contains an error somewhere. Please follow the instructions below and mark the
|checked=
to true
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 20:20, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Is there a reason why it's OK to put copyrighted text on this page? Seems like a clear-cut issue to me but it's been there a while so maybe I'm missing something. GordonGlottal ( talk) 14:35, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
“Have no fear of sudden terror…” in Jonathan Sacks authorised daily prayer book… where does that come from? 148.252.129.218 ( talk) 09:33, 20 August 2023 (UTC)