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The account given of Mandler's death is uncited, dubious and clashes with other detailed accounts; eg Herzog's War of Atonement. I propose to replace this account with Herzog's, and add a bit of detail regarding Mandler's activities. Discussion prior to this is welcomed.
Gog the Mild (
talk)
14:09, 26 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Account of Death differs with other Wikipedia articles
Hmmm. O'Ballance ("No Victor, No Vanquished", pg.157) says "an Egyptian missile". (It does confirm the '30 seconds', though.) Rabinovitz ("Yom Kippur War", pg. 351) says "an Egyptian tank shell". Bartov ("Dado", pg. 452, Ma'ariv, English edition) says "a shell". Herzog ("War of Atonement", pg. 204) says "a missile". Adan ("Banks of Suez", pg. 231 - he was in Sharon's HQ when Mandler's death was announced to the group assembled there) says "shelling".
A couple of observations:
The main anti-tank missile used by the Egyptians then was the
Sagger, which had a maximum range of 3 km. Possibly within range; Mandler was reported to have moved to a forward observation post when he was killed. Without details, it's unclear if there were Egyptian infantry within 3km.
The range of variance in the reports is interesting; it suggests there was no definitive account. Unless someone actually saw his APC being hit (which probably would allow that observer to tell which it was), it's possible nobody knows for sure. (Although a careful after-action forensic examination of the debris might have been able to tell - but would anyone have bothered?)
Adan's account says the OP had been under heavy artillery fire - which a competent observer would be able to tell. If his account is correct, it was likely part of that barrage.
Since this is the English WP, it would be good to have an authoritative source in English. Lacking that, in light of all the above, I'll change it to say 'hostile fire, possibly artillery'.
Noel(talk)22:22, 3 September 2022 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
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The account given of Mandler's death is uncited, dubious and clashes with other detailed accounts; eg Herzog's War of Atonement. I propose to replace this account with Herzog's, and add a bit of detail regarding Mandler's activities. Discussion prior to this is welcomed.
Gog the Mild (
talk)
14:09, 26 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Account of Death differs with other Wikipedia articles
Hmmm. O'Ballance ("No Victor, No Vanquished", pg.157) says "an Egyptian missile". (It does confirm the '30 seconds', though.) Rabinovitz ("Yom Kippur War", pg. 351) says "an Egyptian tank shell". Bartov ("Dado", pg. 452, Ma'ariv, English edition) says "a shell". Herzog ("War of Atonement", pg. 204) says "a missile". Adan ("Banks of Suez", pg. 231 - he was in Sharon's HQ when Mandler's death was announced to the group assembled there) says "shelling".
A couple of observations:
The main anti-tank missile used by the Egyptians then was the
Sagger, which had a maximum range of 3 km. Possibly within range; Mandler was reported to have moved to a forward observation post when he was killed. Without details, it's unclear if there were Egyptian infantry within 3km.
The range of variance in the reports is interesting; it suggests there was no definitive account. Unless someone actually saw his APC being hit (which probably would allow that observer to tell which it was), it's possible nobody knows for sure. (Although a careful after-action forensic examination of the debris might have been able to tell - but would anyone have bothered?)
Adan's account says the OP had been under heavy artillery fire - which a competent observer would be able to tell. If his account is correct, it was likely part of that barrage.
Since this is the English WP, it would be good to have an authoritative source in English. Lacking that, in light of all the above, I'll change it to say 'hostile fire, possibly artillery'.
Noel(talk)22:22, 3 September 2022 (UTC)reply