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The funny thing about the Fametracker web site is that I created the Photoshopped image they use for my (long since defunct) Golden Horde: The Al Leong Fan Club web site. I don't begrudge them using it, of course: I'm glad someone out there is paying Al the respect he deserves.
I have put all of the filmographic data I have online. Note: some of this is written tongue-in-cheek, and may need a bit of revision to be appropriate for an encyclopedia entry. There are a few gaps. Maybe someone can fill those in. My next step is to go through and Wiki-link the more interesting cross-references (e.g., Andy Sidaris, Rambo, Genghis Khan). Anyone who would like to help with that has my blessing. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 02:49, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
This article fails to explicitly point out a very important detail: Al Leong's Bacon number is 1! ( 71.233.165.69 05:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC))
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
This article has been tagged for "cleanup", but no mention of what may be needed has been discussed. Let's discuss the article before we go tagging it with things. If the article needs changes, what are those changes? -- BBlackmoor (talk), 2006-01-17 T 19:22 Z
I can't for the life of me figure out why those first few tables don't work and the rest of them do. I've gone over it with a fine-toothed comb and I can't find any difference that would account for it. Oh well... Felicity4711 22:26, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
The GA tag was added to this article without going through the nomination process. It has now been removed, please don't re-add it without nominating the article at this page.
Thanks,
Cedars 13:07, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
This article offends my eyes. I'm not good at sounding serious, so someone please fix this. To whoever wrote the article this way, fall in a well and stay forgotten. Ace ofspade 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is language so informal? ' battling yellow turbans (and winning!) in the alleyway' '(Hey, it's an impressive scream.)'. 14:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, cute and clever and excellent for a blog sort of thing, but not for an encyclopedia. I dunno if User:Bblackmoor is still reading this at all, but perhaps I could move whatever scant dialogue he had in films to wikiquotes? I'll remove the synopsis of the films and instead make a filmography section. Basically I'm asking for a radical reduction. Sorry. Tamarkot 19:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Good work by user:ONUnicorn and user:Ace ofspade on the article. Thanks. Your efforts are greatly apppreciated. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 04:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Excellent work by user:PlatinumX and user:Gator MacReady. Your efforts are appreciated. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 00:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Good work by user:Sumahoy. Precise categories are a joy to behold. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2006-12-28 20:03Z
user:AspiraDude deleted most of the article's content. I would not characterize this as vandalism, per se, but at the very least it was not the result of discussion and consensus, nor was any valid reason given for the deletion of the article's content. I have therefore reverted AspiraDude's changes. Feel free to delete anything that is not verifiable. Feel free to rephrase anything that is not NPOV. Feel free to delete anything that isn't notable and relevant to this article. Feel free to discuss anything else. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 04:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I enjoyed reading this article. Seeing every death of a career villain listed in a row is a kick, and a chart like the one on this page would fit in very well on a "bad movies" site. However, it doesn't really belong on Wikipedia, even if it's verifiable, interesting, and funny. It's not about length so much as whether the content is encyclopedic or not. I have no problem with the Al Leong article being as long or longer than Steven Spielberg's, but if the content is a chart of funny quotes, lengthy descriptions of roles, and causes of death, then it really belongs on a humor/movie buff site rather than an encyclopedia. Snurks T C 21:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
I have reverted Mr Tan's edit, where he replaced the "Asian-American Actor" category with "Chinese-American Actor". I reverted it because although Leong looks Asian (and I suppose that's important to some people), we have no evidence or references to verify the assertion that Leong identifies himself as "Chinese-American". Personally, I find the introduction of categories like "Asian-American" and "Chinese-American" offensive and inappropriate. On the one hand, he was born in the USA, and he's a US citizen. That makes him an American. No hyphen. On the other hand, categories like "Asian-American" are meaningless: the vast bulk of the people living in the USA have ancestors from numerous continents. The whole concept of "[whatever]-American" is inane, in my opinion. However, I have simply reverted the category instead of deleting it, because I know I am outnumbered by those who think such a category is relevant. -- -- BBlackmoor (talk) 20:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I reverted the edit by HongQiGong for the same reason. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-02-04 08:28Z
I find it really rather strange that it should be "offensive" to point out that someone is Asian American or Chinese American, as if it should be shameful to be Asian or Chinese in the US or something. Hong Qi Gong ( Talk - Contribs) 08:46, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I know that Bblackmoor cares deeply about this article, but in the process of adding wikilinks, I had to change some of the more tongue-in-cheek and colloquial turns of phrase. Wikipedia is actually an encyclopedia and should be written as such, but the language had to be slightly cleaned up, while I left the format and spirit of the article intact. JesseRafe 23:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I've posted a request for feedback on this article, to address concerns regarding overall style and content. The aim is to achieve a more rounded consensus, from a wider audience. - Tiswas( t/ c) 12:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
An extensive amount of work has been done on this article since the "cleanup" template was added in June of 2006. Among other improvements, a number of editors have gone through and cleaned up intra-wiki links, improved the tone to make it consistently encyclopedic, and fact-checked the filmography. Has this article been improved sufficiently to remove the cleanup/tone template? (I think it has.) -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-06-08 19:35Z
Unlike the tag that Princess Tiswas kept adding to this article, the "unencyclopedic list" template that Tikiwont has applied is, at least, used correctly and appropriately. However, unlike the previous templates applied to this article (concerning its tone, primarily -- template tags which I wholeheartedly supported as being useful and constructive to the improvement of the article), I disagree with the goal of this tag and with the assumptions on which it is based. I disagree with the premise that lists are somehow "unexcyclopedic". I would posit that lists of relevant, verifiable information about notable subjects is precisely encyclopedic, and sometimes that is the most practical way of structuring such information. From reading the talk page devoted to that template, I can see that I am hardly alone in this opinion. Based on the precedents set by other articles on Wikipedia, I would go so far as to say that this "lists are bad" mentality is in the extreme minority. But I will let someone else remove the template. I have done enough cleanup on this article lately. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-06-15 03:03Z
I have removed the citation tag, because the vast majority of the content of this article is thoroughly documented. "Wikipedia:Verifiability says that attribution is required for direct quotes and for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged." That certainly does not apply here. In fact, there is only one passage in the entire article that is not directly supported by reliable references, and that's this:
I have not been able to find any references to support this passage, anywhere. Per Wikipedia policy, "All unsourced and poorly sourced contentious material about living persons should be removed from articles and talk pages immediately." I wouldn't consider this contentious (no one has contested it, Q.E.D.), so I do not think this warrants immediate removal. However, if some kind of supporting documentation is not provided in a reasonable amount of time, I do think it ought to be removed, at least until supporting references can be found. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-06-15 03:32Z
Beyond labels and tags, the current format of the filmography section has been criticised repeatedly. As am actor, Al Long should have a filmography section similar to that of other actors here in Wikipedia. Looking at featured articles, there seems to be a wide consensus for having a table with the four columns Year, Title, Role, Other notes. With respect to the current structure this would mean.
This has been tried alreayd once in the past. I understand it would remove some material that is uniquely arranged, but it this amounts almost to originally arranged to somehow amplify the fact that Leong has routinely been casted for a specifyc type of role. Comments, endorsements, opposes below please. -- Tikiwont 20:32, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I will repeat what I said almost precisely a year ago: Leong's dialogue is notable, because it is one of the distinguishing characteristics of his roles -- his dialogue, or lack thereof, is part of what makes Leong himself notable. This is not original research -- it is referenced in every significant mention of him in external sources (the number of which is diminishing, sadly, as his heydey recedes into the past). As for removing the synopses, that would be acceptable as long as the verifiable information contained in them is moved to another Wikipedia article (one for each film, presumably). However, be aware that since one of Leong's signature attributes is that he is a bit player, Leong's appearance in a film might not be notable in an article devoted to that film, while it is notable in an article devoted to Leong himself. Ergo, much of what is currently contained in the film synopses may be notable only within the context of this article -- and thus, should stay in this article. Again, this is not original research -- it is merely the placement of verifiable information in articles where that information is relevant and notable, all of which is directly supported by Wikipedia's core principles.
You make a valid comparison to articles devoted to other actors. However, the observation that other actor's filmographies are incomplete is certainly not a reason to remove verifiable information where it currently exists. Under that rationale, every article on Wikipedia would be reduced to a stub. It is my opinion that neutral, verifiable, notable information should never be removed from Wikipedia unless there is some truly extraordinary justification for it. I find it quite odd that any editor would disagree.
As for the article having been criticized, this is so. On the hand, it has received nonconstructive criticism from a small number of people who have neither provided a coherent basis for that criticism nor contributed anything to the article themselves. (Suggestions that the editors of the article should "fall in a well and stay forgotten" and observations that the article is a "train wreck" are typical of such editors' comments.) However, the article has also received constructive criticism from editors who have cleaned up, clarified, expanded, and just generally improved the article. It is my opinion that the latter form of criticism should be given the most weight. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-06-17 14:33Z
I'm going to change it now. Above are suggestions what to do with the removed parts. In case you're still not convinced, please consider to split off the previous version as Al Leong filmography. -- Tikiwont 07:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
It saddens me to see this - the article in its previous format was a wonder, and contained all the information I required when I looked into Al Leong a few months ago. To see it deteriorate to its current level is upsetting.
Hopefully, someone can do something to improve it to at least a fraction of its former glory.—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
84.65.15.8 (
talk •
contribs)
Am I the only one who thinks it's HILARIOUS that someone who kept calling the guy "Al Cheong" is the one who seemed hell-bent on cutting this Wiki post down to nothing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.46.56 ( talk) 06:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
What happened to this article? It used to have buckets of information about Al Leong, and now it's like a stub. What the heck?!? This is pitiful. 67.62.201.69 ( talk) 15:45, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Al Leong/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Tha article has an impressive filmography, but not much of anything else. It lacks infobox, persondata...and an actual article - written in prose. Nothing at all about the man. - Duribald 11:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 11:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 06:59, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
The funny thing about the Fametracker web site is that I created the Photoshopped image they use for my (long since defunct) Golden Horde: The Al Leong Fan Club web site. I don't begrudge them using it, of course: I'm glad someone out there is paying Al the respect he deserves.
I have put all of the filmographic data I have online. Note: some of this is written tongue-in-cheek, and may need a bit of revision to be appropriate for an encyclopedia entry. There are a few gaps. Maybe someone can fill those in. My next step is to go through and Wiki-link the more interesting cross-references (e.g., Andy Sidaris, Rambo, Genghis Khan). Anyone who would like to help with that has my blessing. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 02:49, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
This article fails to explicitly point out a very important detail: Al Leong's Bacon number is 1! ( 71.233.165.69 05:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC))
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
This article has been tagged for "cleanup", but no mention of what may be needed has been discussed. Let's discuss the article before we go tagging it with things. If the article needs changes, what are those changes? -- BBlackmoor (talk), 2006-01-17 T 19:22 Z
I can't for the life of me figure out why those first few tables don't work and the rest of them do. I've gone over it with a fine-toothed comb and I can't find any difference that would account for it. Oh well... Felicity4711 22:26, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
The GA tag was added to this article without going through the nomination process. It has now been removed, please don't re-add it without nominating the article at this page.
Thanks,
Cedars 13:07, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
This article offends my eyes. I'm not good at sounding serious, so someone please fix this. To whoever wrote the article this way, fall in a well and stay forgotten. Ace ofspade 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is language so informal? ' battling yellow turbans (and winning!) in the alleyway' '(Hey, it's an impressive scream.)'. 14:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, cute and clever and excellent for a blog sort of thing, but not for an encyclopedia. I dunno if User:Bblackmoor is still reading this at all, but perhaps I could move whatever scant dialogue he had in films to wikiquotes? I'll remove the synopsis of the films and instead make a filmography section. Basically I'm asking for a radical reduction. Sorry. Tamarkot 19:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Good work by user:ONUnicorn and user:Ace ofspade on the article. Thanks. Your efforts are greatly apppreciated. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 04:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Excellent work by user:PlatinumX and user:Gator MacReady. Your efforts are appreciated. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 00:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Good work by user:Sumahoy. Precise categories are a joy to behold. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2006-12-28 20:03Z
user:AspiraDude deleted most of the article's content. I would not characterize this as vandalism, per se, but at the very least it was not the result of discussion and consensus, nor was any valid reason given for the deletion of the article's content. I have therefore reverted AspiraDude's changes. Feel free to delete anything that is not verifiable. Feel free to rephrase anything that is not NPOV. Feel free to delete anything that isn't notable and relevant to this article. Feel free to discuss anything else. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 04:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I enjoyed reading this article. Seeing every death of a career villain listed in a row is a kick, and a chart like the one on this page would fit in very well on a "bad movies" site. However, it doesn't really belong on Wikipedia, even if it's verifiable, interesting, and funny. It's not about length so much as whether the content is encyclopedic or not. I have no problem with the Al Leong article being as long or longer than Steven Spielberg's, but if the content is a chart of funny quotes, lengthy descriptions of roles, and causes of death, then it really belongs on a humor/movie buff site rather than an encyclopedia. Snurks T C 21:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
I have reverted Mr Tan's edit, where he replaced the "Asian-American Actor" category with "Chinese-American Actor". I reverted it because although Leong looks Asian (and I suppose that's important to some people), we have no evidence or references to verify the assertion that Leong identifies himself as "Chinese-American". Personally, I find the introduction of categories like "Asian-American" and "Chinese-American" offensive and inappropriate. On the one hand, he was born in the USA, and he's a US citizen. That makes him an American. No hyphen. On the other hand, categories like "Asian-American" are meaningless: the vast bulk of the people living in the USA have ancestors from numerous continents. The whole concept of "[whatever]-American" is inane, in my opinion. However, I have simply reverted the category instead of deleting it, because I know I am outnumbered by those who think such a category is relevant. -- -- BBlackmoor (talk) 20:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I reverted the edit by HongQiGong for the same reason. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-02-04 08:28Z
I find it really rather strange that it should be "offensive" to point out that someone is Asian American or Chinese American, as if it should be shameful to be Asian or Chinese in the US or something. Hong Qi Gong ( Talk - Contribs) 08:46, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I know that Bblackmoor cares deeply about this article, but in the process of adding wikilinks, I had to change some of the more tongue-in-cheek and colloquial turns of phrase. Wikipedia is actually an encyclopedia and should be written as such, but the language had to be slightly cleaned up, while I left the format and spirit of the article intact. JesseRafe 23:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I've posted a request for feedback on this article, to address concerns regarding overall style and content. The aim is to achieve a more rounded consensus, from a wider audience. - Tiswas( t/ c) 12:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
An extensive amount of work has been done on this article since the "cleanup" template was added in June of 2006. Among other improvements, a number of editors have gone through and cleaned up intra-wiki links, improved the tone to make it consistently encyclopedic, and fact-checked the filmography. Has this article been improved sufficiently to remove the cleanup/tone template? (I think it has.) -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-06-08 19:35Z
Unlike the tag that Princess Tiswas kept adding to this article, the "unencyclopedic list" template that Tikiwont has applied is, at least, used correctly and appropriately. However, unlike the previous templates applied to this article (concerning its tone, primarily -- template tags which I wholeheartedly supported as being useful and constructive to the improvement of the article), I disagree with the goal of this tag and with the assumptions on which it is based. I disagree with the premise that lists are somehow "unexcyclopedic". I would posit that lists of relevant, verifiable information about notable subjects is precisely encyclopedic, and sometimes that is the most practical way of structuring such information. From reading the talk page devoted to that template, I can see that I am hardly alone in this opinion. Based on the precedents set by other articles on Wikipedia, I would go so far as to say that this "lists are bad" mentality is in the extreme minority. But I will let someone else remove the template. I have done enough cleanup on this article lately. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-06-15 03:03Z
I have removed the citation tag, because the vast majority of the content of this article is thoroughly documented. "Wikipedia:Verifiability says that attribution is required for direct quotes and for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged." That certainly does not apply here. In fact, there is only one passage in the entire article that is not directly supported by reliable references, and that's this:
I have not been able to find any references to support this passage, anywhere. Per Wikipedia policy, "All unsourced and poorly sourced contentious material about living persons should be removed from articles and talk pages immediately." I wouldn't consider this contentious (no one has contested it, Q.E.D.), so I do not think this warrants immediate removal. However, if some kind of supporting documentation is not provided in a reasonable amount of time, I do think it ought to be removed, at least until supporting references can be found. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-06-15 03:32Z
Beyond labels and tags, the current format of the filmography section has been criticised repeatedly. As am actor, Al Long should have a filmography section similar to that of other actors here in Wikipedia. Looking at featured articles, there seems to be a wide consensus for having a table with the four columns Year, Title, Role, Other notes. With respect to the current structure this would mean.
This has been tried alreayd once in the past. I understand it would remove some material that is uniquely arranged, but it this amounts almost to originally arranged to somehow amplify the fact that Leong has routinely been casted for a specifyc type of role. Comments, endorsements, opposes below please. -- Tikiwont 20:32, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I will repeat what I said almost precisely a year ago: Leong's dialogue is notable, because it is one of the distinguishing characteristics of his roles -- his dialogue, or lack thereof, is part of what makes Leong himself notable. This is not original research -- it is referenced in every significant mention of him in external sources (the number of which is diminishing, sadly, as his heydey recedes into the past). As for removing the synopses, that would be acceptable as long as the verifiable information contained in them is moved to another Wikipedia article (one for each film, presumably). However, be aware that since one of Leong's signature attributes is that he is a bit player, Leong's appearance in a film might not be notable in an article devoted to that film, while it is notable in an article devoted to Leong himself. Ergo, much of what is currently contained in the film synopses may be notable only within the context of this article -- and thus, should stay in this article. Again, this is not original research -- it is merely the placement of verifiable information in articles where that information is relevant and notable, all of which is directly supported by Wikipedia's core principles.
You make a valid comparison to articles devoted to other actors. However, the observation that other actor's filmographies are incomplete is certainly not a reason to remove verifiable information where it currently exists. Under that rationale, every article on Wikipedia would be reduced to a stub. It is my opinion that neutral, verifiable, notable information should never be removed from Wikipedia unless there is some truly extraordinary justification for it. I find it quite odd that any editor would disagree.
As for the article having been criticized, this is so. On the hand, it has received nonconstructive criticism from a small number of people who have neither provided a coherent basis for that criticism nor contributed anything to the article themselves. (Suggestions that the editors of the article should "fall in a well and stay forgotten" and observations that the article is a "train wreck" are typical of such editors' comments.) However, the article has also received constructive criticism from editors who have cleaned up, clarified, expanded, and just generally improved the article. It is my opinion that the latter form of criticism should be given the most weight. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-06-17 14:33Z
I'm going to change it now. Above are suggestions what to do with the removed parts. In case you're still not convinced, please consider to split off the previous version as Al Leong filmography. -- Tikiwont 07:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
It saddens me to see this - the article in its previous format was a wonder, and contained all the information I required when I looked into Al Leong a few months ago. To see it deteriorate to its current level is upsetting.
Hopefully, someone can do something to improve it to at least a fraction of its former glory.—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
84.65.15.8 (
talk •
contribs)
Am I the only one who thinks it's HILARIOUS that someone who kept calling the guy "Al Cheong" is the one who seemed hell-bent on cutting this Wiki post down to nothing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.46.56 ( talk) 06:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
What happened to this article? It used to have buckets of information about Al Leong, and now it's like a stub. What the heck?!? This is pitiful. 67.62.201.69 ( talk) 15:45, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Al Leong/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Tha article has an impressive filmography, but not much of anything else. It lacks infobox, persondata...and an actual article - written in prose. Nothing at all about the man. - Duribald 11:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 11:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 06:59, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Al Leong. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:56, 6 January 2018 (UTC)